Cannot take this anymore

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

 Hi,
I've been 11 years with my uBPD wife and this is a nightmare... .I just cannot take it anymore... .she's so unlogical and childish... .we have two boys 6 and 3 and I love them very much, but just can't handle this anymore. I know how stupid I sound for not being able to "get a grip" and just move on. It's 1 year since the breakup, but I still cannot be "normal"... .She's so illogical and random with her behaviour its confusing me alot... .One week she ignores me, and is cold to me, next she's mean, and than she's all fine, open and happy to talk and meet me... .
And she constantly reminds me that she doesn't love me and our relationship is over for good.

 My kids are asking me every day if me and their mom will get back together and if I will come back to the house... .

 I am so frustrated... .I don't know why I love this woman... .she's so mean to me and I just cannot stop having feelings for her. I know I have some kind of co-dependancy to deal with and I am working with a T for that, but its just hard... Sorry, I guess I just need to vent a little.

[MarvinTheRobot]

 Hi,
I've been 11 years with my uBPD wife and this is a nightmare... .I just cannot take it anymore... .she's so unlogical and childish... .we have two boys 6 and 3 and I love them very much, but just can't handle this anymore. I know how stupid I sound for not being able to "get a grip" and just move on. It's 1 year since the breakup, but I still cannot be "normal"... .She's so illogical and random with her behaviour its confusing me alot... .One week she ignores me, and is cold to me, next she's mean, and than she's all fine, open and happy to talk and meet me... .
And she constantly reminds me that she doesn't love me and our relationship is over for good.

 My kids are asking me every day if me and their mom will get back together and if I will come back to the house... .

 I am so frustrated... .I don't know why I love this woman... .she's so mean to me and I just cannot stop having feelings for her. I know I have some kind of co-dependancy to deal with and I am working with a T for that, but its just hard... Sorry, I guess I just need to vent a little.

[livednlearned]

Venting is important when you're experiencing the emotional volatility of someone with BPD.

It sounds like you are living separately and she lives with the kids? How often do you see them?

There are relationship skills that can help prevent things from getting worse. They won't stop her from experiencing her own emotional rollercoaster, but they can make it easier to prevent things from escalating. Meanwhile, you can learn how to stay grounded.

She says your relationship is over for good. Does she say she wants to get a divorce?

[MarvinTheRobot]

 Hey livednlearned,

Thank you for replying.

 We are separated for a year now, we do not have marriage. I am paying child support every month, and I am with the kids every Sunday and at least twice in the week. Me and her mother are taking care of them now.

 Most of the time I can handle her, I've read about how not to provoke her negative behavior, and I was "painted white" for some time now. But there are days when I am getting so frustrated, mostly when I am with the kids, and they keep asking "Where is mom?", "Why mom yells so much at people?"... .etc.

 After the split, she become very different. I feel she is acting like a 13 year old girl (she's 34). She got breast implants, went on every dating website she found, had multiple boyfriends, the music she listens changed, she started cursing a lot, and basically stopped caring about the kids.

 I guess I just wonder if this is ever going to stop, because now it seems like it keeps getting worse... .

[livednlearned]

One year to recover from a BPD marriage is not a lot of time

My marriage was also 10 years, and one year into the separation it was challenging to say the least. Maybe the hardest year of my life.

It's worrying that she is no longer caring for the kids in the same way she was. Do you notice she is trying to drop them off with you more?

What do you say when the kids ask about mom, where she is and why she yells so much?

There are similar relationship and communication skills we can use with the kids. I always worried my son would end up developing BPD like his dad. He didn't, thankfully. It took friends here to help me learn how best to respond.

Are the boys wanting to spend more time with you?

[ForeverDad]

One phrase I learned here was that people with BPD (pwBPD) are predictably unpredictable.  There are patterns within their erratic moods and perceptions but they're still predictably unpredictable.

Don't tear yourself up when she morphs from one mood to another.  It's not you.  You have a grip on reality, don't let her guilt you into feeling responsible for her problems, her erratic behaviors, etc.  After all, she is an adult.  Even if you feel she's not 100%, the reality is that the court will see her as an adult and so you must too.  In other words, separate yourself from the emotional chaos she demands you oblige.  As some have described it, treat it more like unwinding a business merger, that pretty much what the lawyers do.  For them it's a day at work and after they exit the court house they walk back whistling to their offices or homes.  Can you come a bit closer to their perspective and reduce the emotional impact to you?

Meanwhile, document in a journal, diary or calendar the time she lets you have with the children.  (Don't tell her you're documenting it, this is a confidential strategy and you may sabotage yourself if you tell her.)  That she is drifting away from her demanded parenting time is an advantage, don't fail to document it.  Later, when you end up in court seeking an order — courts are usually "less unfair" than a disordered ex — that journal or whatever will help you remain an involved parent.  Courts largely ignore vague claims "he always... ." or "she always... ." but accept documents with specific data such as dates, times, places, events, etc.

[MarvinTheRobot]

 Hey,
Thanks for the replies.

 It just got worse... .

 She punched me twice in front of our kids than called all our relatives and said "we fought". I did not hit her back, just took the kids and moved them away from her. Than tried to explain to them, that mommy sometimes can get angry, and that when this happen they should go not get angry also, but walk away until she calms down. Than took them to her mother, who was pretty mad at me because I guess her daughter already had phoned her, telling her bad things about me.

 I am do not feel anger towards her, I am sad about this situation. The kids are awesome and I think they deserve much better life. And I am sad because we were quite normal family before that, we went on vacations together, watched movies together and basically nothing seemed like something is wrong. But then she found "THE ONE", than another "ONE"... .now i think this "ONE" is her 6th... .All in one year period.

 I know we got to a point when there is no turning back to that, but I hope we get to a point when we can talk calmly.

 I hope she "hits the bottom", and someday realize she needs help, but I doubt this is coming soon.

[livednlearned]

I did not hit her back, just took the kids and moved them away from her. Than tried to explain to them, that mommy sometimes can get angry, and that when this happen they should go not get angry also, but walk away until she calms down.

Your kids saw something shocking, traumatizing (mom hitting dad).

I understand what you're going for here -- to keep the kids safe. Like you, I tried to manage by offering my own coping skills to my son.

Our coping skills are not always feasible for kids, and for many of us, they aren't always healthy.

If I could offer a small bit of advice that I learned along the way.

Validate first how your kids feel. "That was shocking, and not ok. Mom hit me. I want you to know I'm here for you, and want to hear how you're feeling right now. That was a lot to go through, and I'm a bit shaken up. I'm here to listen to what you two are feeling if you want to share."

Let them express the pain, sadness, and/or anger they feel. Otherwise, it gets stunted inside and can turn into depression and anxiety. Worse-case scenario, they think this is what love is, and repeat the same thing in their adult romantic relationships. 

Then you can tell them that mom has problems regulating her emotions and when she gets like that, they need to learn to protect themselves and each other. Ask them what they have done before (it's probably not a first time, I would imagine), and brainstorm together things that are feasible for them.

When my ex had a psychotic episode, my son didn't want to move to even text or make a phone call. His survival mechanism was to act like he was asleep in his room so his dad wouldn't engage him.

Earlier, I had told him to text me or call me, or find a neighbor if he felt the need. At 11, he was too scared to do anything like that. When we processed it in therapy after, I realized he felt guilty for letting me down. I had to back up and redo things, acknowledging that he made a good decision. To my surprise, he was worried that I would be disappointed in him for not defending me (psychotic episode involved hate directed my way) and second that he didn't call me when it was happening.

A lot of this stuff is not intuitive and has to be learned. Fortunately, my son was receptive to me when I came back and asked to talk about it again.

We have to be their emotional leaders in addition to everything else. Not easy when there is a BPD parent!

[ForeverDad]

Was this incident recorded?  The reason I ask is when you make a DV report to the police she will almost surely try to make you look worse than her, perhaps even claim you were the one doing the hitting.  Yes, your kids were witnesses but you can't be sure they will tell the full truth to investigators.  And if you can avoid having them quizzed about dad vs mom, so much the better.  Kids really don't want to be caught in the middle of conflict.

My story... .I don't know for sure but I have every indication I faced being carted off and spending time in jail when I called 911 to report a "family dispute".  My then-preschooler 'saved' me by refusing to leave my arms when I was told to hand him to his mother and "step away".  She was the one who threatened me but she convinced the two officers I was acting badly.  And yes, I sensed she was preparing to blow a fuse and I did record, it was my form of defensive 'insurance'.  It later was helpful to make it clear I wasn't the one acting poorly.

[Turkish]

MarvinTR,

This was a serious escalation.  Did she punch you hard enough to leave a mark? If so,  take a photo.  Document it. 

My ex punched her H hard enough to bruise her hand. She showed me two days later.  That had to have left a mark on him.

I realize this is complicated given kids,  but have you thought about reaching out to local recources for support? You don't have to deal with this alone,  and nether should your kids.  If you're safe,  then that enables you to keep them safe.  They may be physically safe from her,  but not emotionally.

[ForeverDad]

As a parent you can get counseling for the children.  If there are no court orders stating otherwise, your spouse may not be able to oppose it, a counselor or therapist could tell you what can or cannot be done.  If there are court orders such as in divorce or post-divorce then you could return to court to get counseling ordered for the children.  My lawyer told me "Courts love counseling."

The key is to get experienced counselors, ones who aren't easily conned into believing unsubstantiated claims by the disordered spouse or becoming a negative advocate.

[MarvinTheRobot]

 Hey guys,
For now things seem to be quiet... .

 At first she threaten to file a police report for harassment, but I think she won't do that. She called after that my mother and told her that she was thankful I did not hit her back.

 For now I think the kids are safe and ok with her mother and I'll let some time pass so we can all calm down and  than try to talk to her about the schedule without involving any institutions. She don't deny me access to my kids for now, so I think we can handle this without any more escalation.

 Actually from my current experience with her after this kind of escalation things tend to get better.

[MarvinTheRobot]

 So she did file harassment charges against me. The funny thing is that she told the police that she was the one who hit me (twice) and said that she only did it because she was afraid of me... .

 I was called to the police station and questioned. The officer told me, that he cannot understand what she is complaining of and thinks she might be using it to later sue me for more money.

 I am not afraid of any legal consequences. It is just the stress she is causing to the whole family and herself I am worried about.

[ForeverDad]

Only you can know your situation and risks best, but I am concerned that you're expecting common sense and logic if you are ever taken to court for her allegations.  You can't assume the court will agree with the facts versus allegations.  Frankly, agencies and even court can act first to protect the claiming to be a victim and sort it out later.  No agency or judge wants to deny an allegation and later find it criticized on a local newspaper's front page or 6 PM news.

I asked my lawyer about my ex's repeated allegations of child abuse.  She really had me scared in the first months.  He told me he could handle criminal cases but it would cost me $10,000 for an additional retainer.

Can you afford spending additional sums for legal defense in addition to costs associated with typical issues in domestic court?

Better to get a legal opinion in advance with a lawyer who handles criminal cases involving DV or child abuse allegations.  I used to work with a manager who had a perspective on inclinations to ASSUME... .It makes an A$$ out of U and ME.