I'm Afraid to Break Up With Someone

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

ive never broken up with anyone before. before my ex, i reviewed my previous relationships, how the signs were there that i should have gotten out (i didnt want to, but i should have), and i kicked myself for not seeing them. it seems silly now, but i wanted to test my ability to break up with someone. the relationship with my ex was the means i chose.

our first three months were no honeymoon. the fighting was constant and ridiculous. at some point i told her she should leave, she made some remark, and i told her that i think its over. that was the first time i ever came the closest. i would repeat it maybe hundreds of times throughout the relationship. never meant it for a full day.

the truth is, for the most part, i did not respect my ex as a human being. if you want to really simplify things, you might say that while i loved her, a lot of the time i didnt "like" her. i would say to her, many times, that "the bad far outweighs the good. this is 90% bad.". there were key areas, like my need for emotional support, wisdom and empathy, that she couldnt satisfy. there were key areas like the respect of my privacy and freedom that she intruded upon often. i dont want a drama/fight filled relationship. there were more superficial things. sometimes i just thought she was so immature and childish and it was very difficult to see her as a strong and attractive person. she could be so petty and vindictive which is a huge turn off.

in spite of that, i also believed shed be the person id marry, and please dont get me wrong, there were plenty of things i liked and loved about my ex and many times i felt head over heels for her. but with things as they were, i never would have followed through marrying her. i would never raise children in an environment where we fought like we did. oh ill stay in a horribly dysfunctional relationship, but i wont marry into one. why?

i get self conscious expressing some of these things because if i were reading them they might sound like bravado and/or splitting. more importantly, they really beg the question "so why did you stay?", and people at the time would ask me just that. and i guess my response would be that after all these years i dont have a simple answer. the thing is that this is a pattern in my life. i seem to find myself in situations, even relationships, that id rather not be in and have no idea how i let myself get there. i did a lot of searching and exploring this in the aftermath, entertaining the question we all ask ourselves for one reason or another, "why did i stay". its such an important question, the answer to which is personal to all of us, and if one really meditates on it, can be incredibly revealing.

i came upon many answers, one stuck out to me a lot. people with low self efficacy often "find themselves in situations and relationships that they dont want to be in". that was critical. it helped me see that these things werent happening to me. some part of me was playing a willing role. but it didnt cover all of it. i wouldnt say i generally have a hard time saying no to others (but when i do, i cant understand why). i generally avoid situations i want nothing to do with. at the heart of self efficacy is not believing in yourself, and while i hold a lot of self limiting beliefs, i generally believe in myself; i think im capable of great things, and i believe im both responsible for and deserving of the future i envision for myself. i also have a decent relationship with my inner critic in that i know what my best work is, and i know my limitations.

in retrospect, i also look back at my approach to the relationship as trying to keep the good parts and shut out the bad. when she was clingy, needy, dependent, i withdrew. when she was raging or vindictive or overbearing i withdrew.

there are others. i have a fear of abandonment, and i also project it on to others. i imagined the difficulty my ex would have if id have broken up with her and that seemed overwhelming. i think i rationalized that we were meant to be, that these problems would eventually be solved, so why break up?

its personally painful for me to envision a loved one exiting my life. in an ideal world that would never happen. breakups usually mandate that it does. how could i throw away our history, which began three years before we even got together? i have lived through it though, and i am less afraid.

plus most of us dont like hurting other peoples feelings. i can be oversensitive to other peoples feelings, and find that my perception of them isnt even accurate.

i think that speaks to a lot of it, within the context of that romantic relationship. but it is not the only example of me asking myself, or someone else asking me "how did you get into this situation you dont want to be in".

ill give you a couple of examples.

one is very recent. im gun shy about meeting people over the internet. i have a social media friend i have never met and barely spoken to, and this person has severe mental health issues (they once threatened to kill me. there is missing context, but would it really help?). they are diagnosed with BPD, in fact. all of that aside, i dont especially like this person, and cannot imagine myself hanging out with them. there are no ties, we are not friends, and i dont wish to be.

they were in town and asked to hang out. i didnt say no, i offered "tomorrow". when "tomorrow" came i was super anxious. eventually i contacted her, made some excuses, and postponed, again, for "tomorrow". i even proposed a time and place to demonstrate i wasnt flaking. part of me was thinking ill get it over with, it will be fine, ill have my friends with me. turns out my friends werent going to be able to make it. i was super anxious all day. contacted her again eventually, asked to postpone, she didnt even care. the suggestion to hang out she made was just on a whim and here i was super concerned about her feelings and full of dread. we made vague future plans and both let it go. over the next few days she increasingly treated me like a counselor and i managed to shut that down pretty quickly.

i had a friend from high school a year younger than me. i didnt think much of this person either. i didnt outright dislike her. she stayed in contact with me after i graduated, and i think she thought we were better friends than i did. she asked me to take her to prom. not my idea of a good time, and why me? i told her i would suck as a prom date. suggested she find someone else, and how about i just take her on a date and show her a good time. nope. she wanted me to take her to prom. i relented. i vented about the situation to friends and family, who, again, were as dumbfounded as i was that i was in this situation. i did take her. it wasnt a good time and i did suck as a prom date. at least i warned her.

the error of my ways is pretty glaring in all of this. "say no and mean no" would apply. "be direct" would apply. i do those things all the time. i dont know why in these specific, odd situations i struggle so much.

what do those examples have to do with being afraid to break up with someone? its all the same fear around hurting someones feelings, i guess, and it all makes it painfully obvious that even today, i would have an extraordinarily hard time exiting a relationship that i want/need to exit.

i have made some improvements. after the relationship with my ex, a year later, i got into a short fling with someone who i knew was a bad idea to get with, with very different values and lifestyle. it was short lived. when she blew up at me i told her "im sorry you feel that way" and we ended it there. wrong direction to go in maybe, but no real harm done. with the person from the internet, i gave a wide berth to the idea of becoming better friends or being her counselor.

so i do feel that if i got into another bad relationship (not my goal) that one thing would lead to another, and a mutual breakup. i think there are probably circumstances where i would even be able to say "i cant do this", and kill it. but lets say i go on a blind date, or a date where someone drops some information that breaks the deal for me. lets say they like me and want to pursue a relationship. to be frank yall, i dont know what the hell i would do, but my mind immediately goes for passive aggressive, or flaky strategies, anything to avoid directly but gently letting them down.

whats my deal, and why am i making this into some strange battle in my head where i feel i must first put myself in a bad situation/relationship and then break the cycle in order to overcome it? anyone struggle with this too?

[once removed]

ive never broken up with anyone before. before my ex, i reviewed my previous relationships, how the signs were there that i should have gotten out (i didnt want to, but i should have), and i kicked myself for not seeing them. it seems silly now, but i wanted to test my ability to break up with someone. the relationship with my ex was the means i chose.

our first three months were no honeymoon. the fighting was constant and ridiculous. at some point i told her she should leave, she made some remark, and i told her that i think its over. that was the first time i ever came the closest. i would repeat it maybe hundreds of times throughout the relationship. never meant it for a full day.

the truth is, for the most part, i did not respect my ex as a human being. if you want to really simplify things, you might say that while i loved her, a lot of the time i didnt "like" her. i would say to her, many times, that "the bad far outweighs the good. this is 90% bad.". there were key areas, like my need for emotional support, wisdom and empathy, that she couldnt satisfy. there were key areas like the respect of my privacy and freedom that she intruded upon often. i dont want a drama/fight filled relationship. there were more superficial things. sometimes i just thought she was so immature and childish and it was very difficult to see her as a strong and attractive person. she could be so petty and vindictive which is a huge turn off.

in spite of that, i also believed shed be the person id marry, and please dont get me wrong, there were plenty of things i liked and loved about my ex and many times i felt head over heels for her. but with things as they were, i never would have followed through marrying her. i would never raise children in an environment where we fought like we did. oh ill stay in a horribly dysfunctional relationship, but i wont marry into one. why?

i get self conscious expressing some of these things because if i were reading them they might sound like bravado and/or splitting. more importantly, they really beg the question "so why did you stay?", and people at the time would ask me just that. and i guess my response would be that after all these years i dont have a simple answer. the thing is that this is a pattern in my life. i seem to find myself in situations, even relationships, that id rather not be in and have no idea how i let myself get there. i did a lot of searching and exploring this in the aftermath, entertaining the question we all ask ourselves for one reason or another, "why did i stay". its such an important question, the answer to which is personal to all of us, and if one really meditates on it, can be incredibly revealing.

i came upon many answers, one stuck out to me a lot. people with low self efficacy often "find themselves in situations and relationships that they dont want to be in". that was critical. it helped me see that these things werent happening to me. some part of me was playing a willing role. but it didnt cover all of it. i wouldnt say i generally have a hard time saying no to others (but when i do, i cant understand why). i generally avoid situations i want nothing to do with. at the heart of self efficacy is not believing in yourself, and while i hold a lot of self limiting beliefs, i generally believe in myself; i think im capable of great things, and i believe im both responsible for and deserving of the future i envision for myself. i also have a decent relationship with my inner critic in that i know what my best work is, and i know my limitations.

in retrospect, i also look back at my approach to the relationship as trying to keep the good parts and shut out the bad. when she was clingy, needy, dependent, i withdrew. when she was raging or vindictive or overbearing i withdrew.

there are others. i have a fear of abandonment, and i also project it on to others. i imagined the difficulty my ex would have if id have broken up with her and that seemed overwhelming. i think i rationalized that we were meant to be, that these problems would eventually be solved, so why break up?

its personally painful for me to envision a loved one exiting my life. in an ideal world that would never happen. breakups usually mandate that it does. how could i throw away our history, which began three years before we even got together? i have lived through it though, and i am less afraid.

plus most of us dont like hurting other peoples feelings. i can be oversensitive to other peoples feelings, and find that my perception of them isnt even accurate.

i think that speaks to a lot of it, within the context of that romantic relationship. but it is not the only example of me asking myself, or someone else asking me "how did you get into this situation you dont want to be in".

ill give you a couple of examples.

one is very recent. im gun shy about meeting people over the internet. i have a social media friend i have never met and barely spoken to, and this person has severe mental health issues (they once threatened to kill me. there is missing context, but would it really help?). they are diagnosed with BPD, in fact. all of that aside, i dont especially like this person, and cannot imagine myself hanging out with them. there are no ties, we are not friends, and i dont wish to be.

they were in town and asked to hang out. i didnt say no, i offered "tomorrow". when "tomorrow" came i was super anxious. eventually i contacted her, made some excuses, and postponed, again, for "tomorrow". i even proposed a time and place to demonstrate i wasnt flaking. part of me was thinking ill get it over with, it will be fine, ill have my friends with me. turns out my friends werent going to be able to make it. i was super anxious all day. contacted her again eventually, asked to postpone, she didnt even care. the suggestion to hang out she made was just on a whim and here i was super concerned about her feelings and full of dread. we made vague future plans and both let it go. over the next few days she increasingly treated me like a counselor and i managed to shut that down pretty quickly.

i had a friend from high school a year younger than me. i didnt think much of this person either. i didnt outright dislike her. she stayed in contact with me after i graduated, and i think she thought we were better friends than i did. she asked me to take her to prom. not my idea of a good time, and why me? i told her i would suck as a prom date. suggested she find someone else, and how about i just take her on a date and show her a good time. nope. she wanted me to take her to prom. i relented. i vented about the situation to friends and family, who, again, were as dumbfounded as i was that i was in this situation. i did take her. it wasnt a good time and i did suck as a prom date. at least i warned her.

the error of my ways is pretty glaring in all of this. "say no and mean no" would apply. "be direct" would apply. i do those things all the time. i dont know why in these specific, odd situations i struggle so much.

what do those examples have to do with being afraid to break up with someone? its all the same fear around hurting someones feelings, i guess, and it all makes it painfully obvious that even today, i would have an extraordinarily hard time exiting a relationship that i want/need to exit.

i have made some improvements. after the relationship with my ex, a year later, i got into a short fling with someone who i knew was a bad idea to get with, with very different values and lifestyle. it was short lived. when she blew up at me i told her "im sorry you feel that way" and we ended it there. wrong direction to go in maybe, but no real harm done. with the person from the internet, i gave a wide berth to the idea of becoming better friends or being her counselor.

so i do feel that if i got into another bad relationship (not my goal) that one thing would lead to another, and a mutual breakup. i think there are probably circumstances where i would even be able to say "i cant do this", and kill it. but lets say i go on a blind date, or a date where someone drops some information that breaks the deal for me. lets say they like me and want to pursue a relationship. to be frank yall, i dont know what the hell i would do, but my mind immediately goes for passive aggressive, or flaky strategies, anything to avoid directly but gently letting them down.

whats my deal, and why am i making this into some strange battle in my head where i feel i must first put myself in a bad situation/relationship and then break the cycle in order to overcome it? anyone struggle with this too?

[cupidsdead]

Once removed... .

Wow, You have perfectly described me! I lived this way for years until just recently. Now, I can honestly say, I am able to say "No" and mean it.

You definitely are not alone and I think most of us have fall under this personality type.

Personally, I have a huge struggle with feeling sorry for my exBPDw despite all that she put me through. But in reality, as I now look back, I am the one to blame since I was not able to say "no" and simply tell her that the relationship was wrong.

[Joe77]

once removed,

First and foremost, Congratulations well written. Sounds truly from the heart.

I have a feeling all of us can relate to saying the word "no" it's a problem for a lot of us. I'm guessing your a great listener, counselor, care taker, people pleaser, and I'm sure charming. You talk people listen, people like you. They bring you their problems because you have a great listening ear and lots of empathy. People with cluster b personality disorders love these kinds of qualities. Because when the mask is removed we are not gonna run away most of the time.

I'm sure you know all about this behavior of not saying no is codependency behavior. I myself hate hurting others feeling and usually just set ground rules at the beginning of the relationship so when and if they do it's a deal breaker. Basically just having boundaries. Congrats pulling yourself out of the one relationship that took a lot of courage.

Do you possibly think that these types of behaviors your drawn to? I find myself repeating this behavior rinse, dry, repeat.

[livednlearned]

What a thoughtful, compelling post, once removed.

I can relate to this in some ways, even with small things like ending conversations.

My T gave me "ending conversations" as a homework assignment, and I think it applies to any situation where I stay too long, or can't quit something. I wonder if this applies to what you're talking about.

The homework: Instead of thinking about how the other person feels, I pay attention to what my emotions do. And try not to judge the feelings, or ruminate on what other people thought when I end the conversation, or have to go. Especially when I want to go, but can't bring myself to say so. I used to feel almost paralyzed.

My SO is a talker and socially gregarious, and I can be too. But when I'm tired, I'm done. I want to go. When I first started this homework assignment, I was blunt and direct and sometimes abrupt, usually after dropping a bunch of social cues that were pretty clear. I didn't like the feelings I had about being abrupt and blunt, so I started to pre-empt things by saying early in the conversation, "Hey, great to see you, I have a hard stop at Xpm but so glad I ran into you. I have about 15 min to catch up." That makes it easier.

Just looking at a clock or watch used to be painful for me. I thought it would make the other person feel like they weren't center of the universe 

My T says this is a form of taking care of myself. The difference between putting ourselves first at the expense of others, or focusing on others at our expense, that there is always a balance and it does take effort if it's something that didn't come naturally in childhood.

Everything involved in this assignment, I was told Just focus on how you feel, take a look at those feelings. What are they? What do they remind you of? What else like that comes to mind?

This is micro-boundary work. And it's not like I get it right every time, each new experience feels like practice, although the whole package seems to have shifted more toward competence in this particular area. Most of the work is about observing my feelings and then letting them go, not judging them, trying to let go of the urge to presume what someone else is thinking.

Honestly, trying to understand why I allowed myself to stay locked in conversation wasn't all that helpful, though I can see why it might be useful for some to figure it out. What I need/ed was a way to get a handle on what my emotions were doing, and growing up in an invalidating environment, it was a surprise to learn how rich just this batch of feelings were, over something so inconsequential as saying bye, gotta go.

Boundaries for me used to be either very strict or very loose, and this kind of work helps figure out the areas that are a little more day to day and grey.

[Lucky Jim]

Hey once removed, Thanks for your thoughtful post.  I wonder whether you are going from 0 to 60 in your head without considering the period in between?  It sounds like you are imagining an all-or-nothing proposition, whereas I would submit that relationships are more of a continuum.  You're free to get off the relationship bus at anytime, so maybe you could take a more relaxed approach.  For example, if you have coffee with someone and don't hit if off, it's no big deal if you decide that person is not for you.

LuckyJim

[once removed]

Now, I can honestly say, I am able to say "No" and mean it.

this is such an important life skill. i remember reading the book "Boundaries" over a decade ago, and a great deal of it focused on just learning to say "no".

one of my motivating factors is that i typically find people will respect you more. not that we should run around telling everyone "no" as a means of gaining respect. communicating, clearly and strongly, whats in bounds for us, and out of bounds for us just tends to yield respect.

i had a friend who was smoking cigarettes and he was just straight up ashing in my car. i felt so dumbfounded at that and found it so difficult to simply say "use the ashtray please" or even just "heres an ashtray". and then i walked away feeling both small because i allowed it, and ruminating about how annoying it was, like "who does that?". when i am assertive about that kind of thing, i feel confident, and the other person tends to mirror that with respect. i try to see the incentives in living my boundaries, because i can usually live with the consequences. in a lot of ways im better about that in romantic relationships because i believe in pretty much black and white, you cant have a happy healthy relationship without boundaries and being able to live with the consequences.

I am the one to blame since I was not able to say "no" and simply tell her that the relationship was wrong.

i see it as a matter of responsibility more than blame. everyone has gotten themselves in a situation they didnt want to be in. but its important that we see that those things dont just happen to us without us playing a role, at least 99% of the time. or even apart from that, if we arent responsible to and for ourselves, who is?

I'm sure you know all about this behavior of not saying no is codependency behavior.

yes. i also agree with you that communicating boundaries up front is very important.

Do you possibly think that these types of behaviors your drawn to? I find myself repeating this behavior rinse, dry, repeat.

my post is kind of confusing in that it links my ex, whom i cared a great deal about, to a more vague issue. bluntly speaking, the other examples are of people i do/did not care about, had/have no desire to be closer to, and yet i struggle to communicate directly, and my thoughts and feelings are disproportionate. spending all day anxious and full of dread and trying to come up with excuses regarding a person i dont even like, and a person who doesnt even have any real feelings on the matter that are likely to get hurt. it just doesnt make sense. its not something i ordinarily struggle with and when i do, the situations are oddly specific and i struggle to make sense of my reaction; where on one hand i dont care at all, and on the other, i care too much.

Do you possibly think that these types of behaviors your drawn to? I find myself repeating this behavior rinse, dry, repeat.

ive learned theres a big difference between what im drawn to and what im attracted to. for example, im "attracted" to healthy confident strong gals. im less "drawn" to them. im "drawn" to gals with low self esteem, and yes, many similar things that many of them seem to have in common. but its not quite the same as what i experience as being "attracted" to someone, if that makes sense.

theres a gal im social media friends with that im very drawn to, for whatever reason; intangible things, though there is physical attraction. she advertises what are to me, red flags, on a daily basis. i wont, i cant, go anywhere near that, and over time i find that the "draw" loses its power. just being mindful about the distinction (attraction vs draw) has been very helpful. the "draw" is a lot about projection, and some of it is oddly intuitive. what im "attracted" to seems to be more consistent, and grows over time.

My T gave me "ending conversations" as a homework assignment, and I think it applies to any situation where I stay too long, or can't quit something. I wonder if this applies to what you're talking about.

yes! and i also have that specific problem with ending conversations, too! it used to be much worse. im a lot better at gauging exit points, and what doesnt need a response. i do have a difficult time being the first to exit a conversation, like say, "i need to go to bed". it hasnt been a huge debilitating problem, but its there.

my mother can be a talker, too. its as if the social cues that youre exiting the conversation (your back is turned, youre taking steps away, now youre literally on the other end of the room, halfway through the door) seem to trigger more of it. that communicates loneliness to me, and im sensitive about triggering abandonment in others. probably more likely its just awkward filling in of silence. i think often what paralyzes me is my own projections.

The homework: Instead of thinking about how the other person feels, I pay attention to what my emotions do. And try not to judge the feelings, or ruminate on what other people thought when I end the conversation, or have to go. Especially when I want to go, but can't bring myself to say so. I used to feel almost paralyzed.

which makes this such a great exercise, because i couldnt really tell you other than either generally annoyed or anxious or both. i actually tried to be a bit more mindful about the feelings surrounding the gal that wanted to hang out but couldnt seem to get past the sense of dread and powerlessness... .more feeling them than being mindful about them and paying more discerning attention to them.

I didn't like the feelings I had about being abrupt and blunt, so I started to pre-empt things by saying early in the conversation, "Hey, great to see you, I have a hard stop at Xpm but so glad I ran into you. I have about 15 min to catch up." That makes it easier.

this is a helpful distinction, because it really helps to find that way(s) that works for you, and also feels true to you. i wouldnt want to feel rude or be rude either, and there are ways that accomplish the goal that work around that and feel more natural, at least with practice.

My T says this is a form of taking care of myself. The difference between putting ourselves first at the expense of others, or focusing on others at our expense, that there is always a balance and it does take effort if it's something that didn't come naturally in childhood.

absolutely. there are factors about me that complicate this, but it also is a value of mine to put others ahead of myself. my faith teaches it (my faith also teaches boundaries). i try to manage the former while living the latter, with boundaries.

example: that gal that wanted to hang out? i failed to mention a few days later she contacts me saying its the anniversary of her fathers death and she really needs a friend. mind you, she has BPD and PTSD, had recently attempted suicide, and so i can on some level imagine what she was going through. i passed (made excuses) on the hanging out but offered to be a friend if she wanted to talk. walked her through it a bit and just gave her the opportunity to talk and exited the conversation when i was ready. sort of thing id do for anyone whether i liked them or not. didnt cost me a thing. what i failed to take into consideration is the message that it sent her, that i was available for regular counseling sessions (i barely know her but know very well shes a talker and over sharer). so when in another day or two i get a message saying "my ex is being a ____" i simply replied "well that bites" and nothing more. so i feel pretty good about that whole interaction.

This is micro-boundary work. And it's not like I get it right every time, each new experience feels like practice, although the whole package seems to have shifted more toward competence in this particular area.

i think the things that personally challenge us always will to lesser and greater degrees, similar to how my sense of what "draws" me may always be there. mindfulness and strategies and practice are what it takes. i see it the same way. its like building the weakest muscles in our bodies.

Honestly, trying to understand why I allowed myself to stay locked in conversation wasn't all that helpful, though I can see why it might be useful for some to figure it out. What I need/ed was a way to get a handle on what my emotions were doing, and growing up in an invalidating environment, it was a surprise to learn how rich just this batch of feelings were, over something so inconsequential as saying bye, gotta go.

i do find myself ruminating a bit on what these situations have in common because theyre oddly specific, randomly occur, and not something i think i struggle with most of the time. some of it could be summed of as "i need to learn to live with rejecting people" (like when they want to hang out, or if someone wanted to date me that i didnt want to date).

im going to be trying it your way, as i think theres a lot of growth to be found there, so ive got homework to do

[once removed]

thanks LJ,

For example, if you have coffee with someone and don't hit if off, it's no big deal if you decide that person is not for you.

i agree with this. where i struggle is how to communicate that. i need to find that "way" that is honest/firm/clear, but that i can live with, be comfortable with, and is true to me.

rejecting someone romantically is a position i really dont think ive ever been in. it seems so daunting. it is a little bit of an all or nothing proposition, because while i know i wouldnt enter into a romantic relationship with someone ive already rejected in my mind, i cant envision the in between. i can send signals, or not send the wrong ones, but that doesnt mean the other person will read me right. its that kind of scenario where i have no idea what id do next but passive aggressive stuff or making excuses, neither of which feel true to me either.

[livednlearned]

im going to be trying it your way, as i think theres a lot of growth to be found there, so ive got homework to do

I'll be curious to hear how it goes for you.

I feel corny saying this, but for me, it's about the practice of observing emotions more than reacting to them, which sounds passive but oddly for me is the opposite.

Last night two friends came over to take our dogs for a walk, and I wasn't finished making dinner. I had to decide between going with them (hungry) or having them wait while SD23 and I finished eating. It's really therapeutic for me (now) to observe my emotions and be all, Hey, look at you feeling anxious, ol' LnL. Maybe a little irritation? And that over there, is that anger -- could be, hard to say. And a bit of guilt or ... .what's this other thing here. Fear? Wow, ok. That too.

It's like a symphony. 

Back in the day, I would just tighten up and get tense, and feel obligated or guilty or whatever. And if stuff builds up a lot, I end up feeling angry, like things got away from me and now I'm mad out of proportion to whatever it was.

People who are real boundary busters can accelerate all of this. I notice with my biggest boundary buster, I go from zero to 10 pretty fast and this particular "observe feelings" thing goes out the window.

I can see how feeling powerless and dread would make it hard to do anything with your friend. I wonder if it would make a difference to just feel the feels and not try to come up with a plan of action? Maybe there is a step in there that can help dissipate some of the intensity so that you can access the part of you that knows exactly what you want to do, when you're ready to do it 

[once removed]

kindred spirits on a lot of this stuff! makes me feel a lot better.

Last night two friends came over to take our dogs for a walk, and I wasn't finished making dinner.

does any of it have to do with not liking people showing up unannounced for you? im someone who needs a lot of notice, most people dont seem to get that even after i communicate it. im kinda rigid in that regard.

Back in the day, I would just tighten up and get tense, and feel obligated or guilty or whatever. And if stuff builds up a lot, I end up feeling angry, like things got away from me and now I'm mad out of proportion to whatever it was.

People who are real boundary busters can accelerate all of this. I notice with my biggest boundary buster, I go from zero to 10 pretty fast and this particular "observe feelings" thing goes out the window.

all of this is just dead on, speaks to those feelings of powerlessness i get, and that sort of dynamic where you replay a conversation and wish youd said what you came up with later. that building up of anger and being mad out of proportion makes me feel... .not well adjusted, which makes me feel worse. i think being more mindful from the beginning would go a long way, because i find i cant really just drop the anger once its built.

I wonder if it would make a difference to just feel the feels and not try to come up with a plan of action?

the problem is with these examples is that im put on the spot. "will you take me to prom?". "come hang out with me". i do delay my responses and try not to mentally deal with it until im ready where i can, and then i either make excuses (which doesnt feel good and i usually do it in a way that still leaves me on the hook, like "i cant today, but what about tomorrow" or i comply and dread it. either way i seem not to be able to stop myself from guiding it in the wrong direction.

[Harley Quinn]

Hi OR,

This is a great topic and one I can also relate to, especially around there being random unrelated instances of this extreme internal discomfort and inability to know how to detach with grace.  I think that livednlearned has hit the nail on the head for me in understanding why it is that only in specific situations I have this issue and it may be true for you too.  Seems to me that this happens when people are total boundary busters and are steamrolling us.  It is far easier to be yourself and state your truth with others who are respectful of your unspoken values as they have the ability to acknowledge these in others and display empathy.  So the lesson for me here is that I need to identify earlier on in relationships of any kind when these feelings arise as it's a surefire way of recognising a misalignment and a red flag to find the strength and conviction to make the exit necessary for my own peace.

As you say, the difficult part is knowing how and finding a way that feels comfortable and allows us to remain true to ourselves.  The homework that lnl was given by her T sounds fantastic, and practice is the only way I can see that I'll ever get better at this.  I also need to remember that not everyone feels as wounded as I do at being rejected (in my perception) and that in reality if this person behaves in such a way where they fail to read others they most likely have much more blunt treatment aimed towards them than any I could deliver. 

Treating others with respect and kindness is a core value of mine and this is where I struggle in hurting others' feelings.  I liked your example where you were worrying about saying no to the girl who wanted to meet up and she was unconcerned.  This sounds like the sort of thing I do.  Heck on the extreme end I let my violent ex stay with me when it was over between us so that he could find somewhere else to live and the last thing I wanted was to have him anywhere near me.  I felt trapped and uneasy in my own home.  He wasn't so concerned about homelessness when he was abusing me, yet I was unable to put myself first.  I just couldn't imagine putting another human being out onto the streets.  (In the end I did, by the way, so what I put myself through was effectively pointless).  It comes back to caring about my own feelings (and safety in this instance) and giving them as much of a priority as I do others.  Perhaps sometimes it is about allowing ourselves to break our own unwritten rules when the occasion calls for it.

Thanks for posting about this!

Love and light x   

[once removed]

It is far easier to be yourself and state your truth with others who are respectful of your unspoken values as they have the ability to acknowledge these in others and display empathy.

it really is. with those people, usually youve already been true to yourself a billion times with them, and they love you for it. it comes naturally.

Treating others with respect and kindness is a core value of mine and this is where I struggle in hurting others' feelings.  I liked your example where you were worrying about saying no to the girl who wanted to meet up and she was unconcerned.

thats my read on it, at least. i did propose including her in going to see a movie with some of my friends and she never replied. or maybe she did decide im a flake. who knows. she definitely wasnt hurt or preoccupied about it like i was.

I just couldn't imagine putting another human being out onto the streets.  (In the end I did, by the way, so what I put myself through was effectively pointless).  It comes back to caring about my own feelings (and safety in this instance) and giving them as much of a priority as I do others.  Perhaps sometimes it is about allowing ourselves to break our own unwritten rules when the occasion calls for it.

i think its important for all of us to remember that conscientiousness is NOT a bad trait, and like you said, you eventually worked yourself to the right destination, as did i, and im sure that sometimes maybe we just have to do things the hard way, so long as they get done. but thats also not to say that any trait like conscientiousness cant either be detrimental, or even just off base.

i wonder though, why i actively took steps to do the opposite of what i wanted to do (going so far as to propose a place and time). i dont know if theres necessarily a tool for that other than "stop".

when she first proposed hanging out i could have said "im gun shy about meeting people from the internet, sorry" (i could have just told her i couldnt, as opposed to proposing "how about tomorrow", too). that would have been true to me, and if shed argued id probably have felt a lot more comfortable holding firm. hanging out with her and just getting it over with would have been true to me too, but im glad it didnt happen.