When outside forces start to ripple...

[IsThisThingOn]

Hi all 

It has been a short while since I last posted. I suppose you can say things have been going pretty "swimmingly"  (insert 'just keep swimming' Dory song here). To be fair... .they still are. For the most part. A little venting and some input might help to keep me focused.

A little(very short) back story to this vent:  My GF and I got back together after I was split VERY black for a little under 2 months.  Since getting back together things have been pretty great (again, for the most part). She's working on getting into therapy... .even made a few appointments! and we've been communicating really well with each other. The validating (at least to the grasp I have on it so far) has been working out incredibly well. We're really starting to get a great grip on how to effectively speak to each other.  Now the part where the "back story" comes in: When I was split black, my GF grew close to someone from her past that during our relationship was very disrespectful in the sense of making comments about how they'd be great together in a relationship and blah blah. Blatant attempts at flirting. Suggestive comments that she'd be better off with that. That sort of thing.

Now, they did get close while I was split black but they never did anything. According to my GF at least... .I'm choosing to believe it. There really is no benefit to NOT believing it.  Currently, this person is STILL in her life and has made it very clear they dont like me or the fact that we're back together. In the beginning I made comments about how I thought that was inappropriate and how the negative tone they were setting wasnt fair to her, me, or us as a couple. Especially considering we obviously do want to make this work in a healthy way. I never once suggested she make a choice between us. I did ask that she keep an open mind to the idea that maybe this person didnt have the best intentions and/or hopes for us. I didnt harp on it. It didnt become a constant conversation. BUT I did notice that in moments where GF would start to dysregulate, this persons name would come up. Almost like a bomb waiting in the background to be detonated hoping (knowing?) it would most likely hurt or at the very least bother me.

I posted on here not too long ago about her last rage. Since then there have been none *fingers crossed, knock on wood* but that rage was ultimately and largely in part because of this other person. My negative feelings towards them. To be fair: I have negative feelings over them trying to poison the relationship and/or her mind. NOT them.  Either way... .they were a large part of that episode so naturally I am not comfortable with this person. More so now.  Even so, after we discussed the situation in its entirety (including the part with this person) we decided that they would remain friends and I would not have it imposed on me in any way shape or form.

Flash forward to now:  Apparently, that person was unaware until a couple of days ago that her and I had worked through that episode and remained together. That in itself is troublesome because:

A) it means she told them we broke up during it... .which lets face it, we really didnt. It was an episode we worked through
B) she didnt feel it was necessary or important to clarify that she IS with me. This is troublesome considering this person is pretty obsessed with discussing me and bringing me up. I would have been topic of discussion at some point or another. It has never failed with them

That being said... .this person founds out we are still together. They've spoken to GF this entire time with no problem... .but suddenly they find out we are still together and it is a problem. GF dog is very old and sick... .not much longer to go. She found out yesterday it is a matter of days.  It just so happens the issue going on with the dog is one that this persons dog had gone through and so GF asked a few questions about their experience. Fair enough. I didnt see a problem with that. After answering her questions, in the middle of obvious sadness GF is already dealing with because of dog, this person decides it is an appropriate time to state:   I see you and (me) are back together. Thats fine and I wish you two the best but with that I think its best we terminate our friendship. Delete me off Instagram, erase my phone number. I don't want to continue our friendship if (me) is a part of your life.


Does anyone see a problem with that? Like a pretty big one?  ... .Yeah, I thought you guys might.

Well, GF was noticeably annoyed that this person chose that moment to add on to her stress she was already going through. Rightfully so. She was noticeably aggravated and told me what was going on and what this person said. I appreciated that.  What I DID NOT appreciate is the fact that instead of saying or feeling like "Wait a minute, how the heck are you going to make me CHOOSE" and standing up to defend me and our relationship, she messages this person back saying "well you'd understand if you'd give me a chance to explain but if thats how you feel I cant stop you"

REALLY?  (Am I overreacting? ... .serious question)

When I touch on the fact that it's unfair to make GF choose and/or even make it something that is a THIS or THAT ... .GF responds  "I dont think it's about choosing"  ... .I'm sorry, what?

Very frustrating. But I kept my cool. There were bigger things to worry about. Her dog is dying... .that takes precedence. No questions asked.

Today, however, I'm feeling really bitter. A few reasons I've come up with as to why:

1. I really hate that I am being discussed with someone who clearly has a problem with me (lets keep in mind this person has never EVER met me or even spoken to me)

2. GF is offering explanations for me... .but there is nothing worthy of explaining. Nor do I feel this person deserves any type of explanation as to why we decided our relationship was worth fighting for and working on

3. The fact that this person feels presenting GF with a choice is a valid/alright thing to do suggests they believe in GF mind they actually have a chance... .that we are not as solid as we actually are. THAT BOTHERS ME!

4. I dont feel comfortable talking about any of this with GF because of the last rage episode. I dont feel a need to have another one be triggered yet again because of this individual. That aside, she is going through a hard time with her dog right now. I feel unfair mentioning any of these feelings I am having... .so here I am. Venting to my bpdfamily

I know there are other reasons I've thought throughout the day but I cant even think of them right now. I guess I'm looking for some input from others. Maybe own experiences/how they were handled.  I want to approach this with as least amount of nonsense and/or triggering factors as possible.  I dont want to let it fester and boil over. I dont like handling things that way.

I also know myself well enough to know that I've adopted this subconscious wall/distancing approach that I dont want to revert to... .but I feel it happening.

Sigh.  -- Thoughts? Experiences?  Anyone?

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Mutt]

Hi IsThisThingOn,



Are you familiar with triangulation? Three people makes a triangle, when direct confrontation with another party is too stressful sometimes people will seek out a third party to release some of that pressure in the r/s, it's not always a person for example you could be working long hours in the office to avoid your SO. I'm not saying that you're confronting her, but her rages are an emotional cleansing.



A pwBPD will often cast themselves as a victim, sometimes rescuer and rarely persecutor and will cast you in either the rescuer or persecutor role, this person from her past is cast as rescuer and your persecutor, a triangle shifts the pressure around all points and it keeps the cycle of blame and drama ongoing.                                  
                                                                                                      
Escaping Conflict and the Karpman Drama Triangle

Do you know how to get out of the triangle?

[IsThisThingOn]

Hi Mutt,

Thank you for your reply.

The way I've tried to avoid triangulation has been by simply removing myself from the "factors" ... as in, I guess I've simply avoided taking any part in it. I dont comment on this person (for the most part) and dont engage in any conversation that includes this person. I attempt to stay non-reactive when its clear their name is being dropped purposefully.  I'm not sure that's the best approach but it has seemed to keep things at bay.

The problem I have revolves mainly around the fact that, like clockwork, whenever I'm told of these comments made by this person (to be fair: its not ONLY this person. It's more so a select few individuals. This person just happens to have a different level of influence it seems)... .not long after I find myself in a situation where my GF suddenly has negative thoughts/feelings/emotions being expressed. It's like she could be absolutely fine and firm in knowing we are on a good track to making sure the relationship is healthy. She's focused on getting herself on a good path that includes therapy and all that good stuff. We're communicating better etc etc... .then these comments are made and suddenly the negative thoughts start to have this snowball effect that eventually erupts.

Real-Time example:   I made the post yesterday expressing my feelings and concerns over it all.  By the time I got home yesterday afternoon I could tell something was going to go down. It's crazy how I can sit here and compare it to how the wind/temperature/atmosphere literally changes when a storm is approaching.  I was home for no more than 30 minutes and here it comes... .full blown storm.  Every single thing including the kitchen sink was thrown at me.

- GET OUT (said multiple times, multiple attempts at packing my things)
- You disgust me
- It's over and I NEVER want to see you again
- You have RUINED my life
- The sound of your voice is seriously agitating me. I cannot stand it!

I stayed calm. Actively focused on not raising my voice or taking any of it personally (boy was that hard  ). Tried to listen to the emotions behind the words. Tried to validate her emotions. Didn't attempt to "rationalize" because lets face it... .none of it was rational in that moment. Stood my ground where it involved boundaries I'd set such as not talking over each other, not calling me names, not touching/carelessly tossing around my possessions. 4 hours later... .we were brought full circle and back down.  Thats actually a HUGE HUUUGE improvement to any other situation we've had. Down from days to 4 hours. I'll take it.

In the end: I do see huge improvements and I'm happy about it.  We managed to work it out without any "blood shed"  (physical violence has not been a concern). I think listening to the emotion behind the words did help me to keep us both on track of finding the source and stopping the bleeding. At least the source of what was causing her to say and do what she was doing.  The TRIGGER is the problem, I believe.  The TRIGGER is something I really don't know how to make better because this trigger happens to be a person.

[Tattered Heart]

In the end: I do see huge improvements and I'm happy about it.  We managed to work it out without any "blood shed"  (physical violence has not been a concern). I think listening to the emotion behind the words did help me to keep us both on track of finding the source and stopping the bleeding. At least the source of what was causing her to say and do what she was doing.  The TRIGGER is the problem, I believe.  The TRIGGER is something I really don't know how to make better because this trigger happens to be a person.

What a tough situation. If you push her to end this relationship, she will cling to it more. What if you invited the person in (not romantically) but invited him over to hang out, come to dinner, or become your friend? If handled correctly, this could potentially remove some of the triangulation. It would let him see how you and your gf work together. He wouldn't see you as the enemy, but as a friend. He would see how you do treat her well and that you really aren't a threat to her and might back off his pressure for her to end the relationship.

By inviting him into your home, your pwBPD may not see the person as being so shiny because instead of being someone to use against you, he is now your ally. Just a thought. Not sure if it's the right response.

I just think of myself as a teenager. I always liked the bad boy and the more my parents fought me about my boyfriends, the stronger I clung to them. The few boys that my parents liked were no longer attractive to me.

[IsThisThingOn]

Hi Tattered Heart,

Thank you for your reply. Your recommendation is great and right in line with exactly what I thought in the past. So, I went ahead and put it out there that I'd be happy to meet him and get to know him. My hope was that it would show I wasnt threatened by him and that would remove him as being part of the arsenal.

The problem is: he doesnt like me and does/says the things he does because he wants to be the boyfriend. He has made it clear HE wants to be in the role I have in her life.

One thing I know for sure and thankfully have never had to question is that my GF would never cheat on me and she is loyal/faithful. I'm not threatened by the fact that he's made it so clear he wants to be with her.  What bothers me is the extent to which he is willing to go in bad mouthing me to try and get the upper hand. The fact that he obviously feels he can toss her an ultimatum like he did and actually have a chance at "coming out the victor" is another problem. Although I know my GF would never be unfaithful, she's essentially hanging me out to dry.

No, she'd never cheat. But is it wrong of me to feel as though by not asserting me/having my back and our relationship firmly to this person she's still betraying it?

[Tattered Heart]

Hi Tattered Heart,

No, she'd never cheat. But is it wrong of me to feel as though by not asserting me/having my back and our relationship firmly to this person she's still betraying it?

Absolutely it's ok. I also believe that cheating doesn't just take place physically. It's possible to have emotional cheating too.

Just had another thought on this. Not sure how well your gf is able to empathize with others, but could you present her with a reverse role scenario. For instance, ask her how she would feel if you had a friend who was trying to pursue you, making demands that you leave your gf, and saying negative things about your gf. Then ask her what she would want you to do in that scenario. (The most obvious answer would be that she would want you to end the friendship). And when she says that, explain to her that the way she felt about the imaginary scenario is how you feel about the real scearnio and then ask her if she can see it from your perspective now.

[IsThisThingOn]

For instance, ask her how she would feel if you had a friend who was trying to pursue you, making demands that you leave your gf, and saying negative things about your gf. Then ask her what she would want you to do in that scenario. (The most obvious answer would be that she would want you to end the friendship). And when she says that, explain to her that the way she felt about the imaginary scenario is how you feel about the real scenario and then ask her if she can see it from your perspective now.

It's funny you should say this because as a matter of fact this has happened. I had a friend who was always just a friend but who clearly would accept advances if I were to ever make them. The fact that my GF knew this was the case made her extremely uncomfortable which I understood. I always made it clear how important my relationship was and had very clearly defined boundaries with my friend but my GF had already made up her mind that this person was XYZ (insert all the negative nasty comments you can think of... .they were probably all said). I ended up limiting my communication with this friend down to basically almost non-existent but the few times my GF did see her name pop up on my phone would cause a huge argument. Finally, she demanded I end this friendship. As a matter of fact she issued her own ultimatum my way: "me or her"

There really was nothing to think about in my case. This friend was a good person, yes, but my GF did have valid reasons and I understood why she was uncomfortable. So I chose my GF with no hesitation.

In the past we did discuss her relationship with him and although she did listen and seem to grasp how I was feeling about it, she did nothing to remedy the situation. I didn't ask her to choose. But I did ask that she make it clear what took precedence. Eventually I stopped engaging in any conversations that involved him because it always ended the same:

1. We have the conversation. It goes seemingly well.
2. Days go by and random comments are made in regards to the conversation in passing.
3. It becomes clear she's been brewing over this conversation and starts to dysregulate.
4. She attempts to engage me in a circular discussion that leads to a full blown rage. In the past she was successful in engaging me. Now, I've managed to keep myself out of the circle (for the most part)

She has the ability to understand my perspective. In the end though she always ends up deciding that my perspective essentially interferes with what she wants so she ends up trying to go to battle with me to get her way. Funny thing is: It's never about either of us "getting our way" for me. It's just about creating a stable firm foundation of which to stand on.


As for what you said about cheating... .could not agree more. I think you've put into words what I couldnt. I know she wouldnt physically cheat on me with him but sometimes, a lot of times, it feels like emotionally she is.  I'm really not sure how to handle it. Instead it seems I've just buried my head in the sand to avoid it but that doesnt stop the thoughts that creep in from previous comments shes made about "talking to him every single day, all the time" and "my friendship with him is important to me for reasons you dont know because I havent told you" (that second comment having been made in regards to something having 'strengthened their bond' during the two months I was completely split black)

In other news: She's going to her very first therapy appointment tomorrow. As in, first time in therapy ever. She's not sure if this therapist will end up being "the one" or not but she is excited about it which is great. I'm proud of her.

I'm also excited about the prospect that maybe, just maybe a therapist will help her to see the things she currently isnt seeing. In all aspects, not even just this particular situation.  Just as excited as I am, I'm also really nervous. Really hoping whatever therapist she ends up with is equipped with enough experience and knowledge to see what is going on. I fear someone unequipped could end up reinforcing the 'bad'