In Limbo - Need Clarity

[flare1]

My now ex gf of a year has not been formally diagnosed with BPD as far as I know, but every sign is there.  I could go into all of her behaviors and list specific examples but to be breif, major abandoment issues, always thought i was cheating , random communication would be triggers ("hey hun, you need some more snaks up in here"... ."how dare you say i dont provide for my duaghter" Beg me to take her out and when we would she would ruin the eveining with something she hated, her dad passed away when she was 3, her mom "dissapeared" for a while while she was growing up but wouldnt really tell me why, had an ex husband she claimed was abusive and cheated on her but she never gave me any evidence of it and I even asked if he eventually admmitted to her and she said no.  She admits to having an eating disorder at one point and abusing pills.  Always has guys swirling around her.  The current guy she is with she was friends with while we were together and even hung out with him at least once while we were dating but told me there was nothing there.  Gave her number to a guy at wedding right in front of me but explained it away.  During 1 of our splits and right after went on a vacation with another guy and has unprotected sex with him. Last time we had sex she thought I was looking at her weird which meant i thought she was ugly, on and on, I could say more.

Anyway, we had a few split and receyle and she would always reach out to me and I would give in.  But this time I am having a majorly weak moment and Im asking for her back this time.  Reason Im having doubts and asking for back is that I owned a business while we were together that put MAJOR strain on things.  Her baehvior brought out a weak side of me that I hate becasue I would shut down and withdraw instead of set boundries and takle the issues head on.  So of course Im having self doubts that it was my fault.  I waited until I sold the business until I reached out.  4 months had gone by and I wanted to be in a better state before I contacted her.  She met me for coffe (was completely done up to the 9s) and then came over my house until 330am and weve been texting, all while shes with her new bf.  She told me she dating that guy (who she complained about becasue hes out of shape, inactive, eats fast food and has 2 kinds that she doesnt want to integrate with hers) BUT she trusts him so she says.  She never said she loves him.  So finally she said that she doesnt want to give up her new relationship so I asked her if I should give up and she says... .I dont know what the future holds but I dont want to change my current situation.  As if, shes saying, dont stop trying becasue I want you to but im not giving in.  Really need some clarity here as my head is spinning and Im in a bad state. Thanks

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PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Mutt]

Hi flare1 

Her baehvior brought out a weak side of me that I hate becasue I would shut down and withdraw instead of set boundries and takle the issues head on.  So of course Im having self doubts that it was my fault.

I don't know if it's a weak side, I think that it sounds like you're walking on eggshells, many of the members here can relate with that feeling, a pwBPD will make people around feel anxious, that's normal. 

So finally she said that she doesnt want to give up her new relationship so I asked her if I should give up and she says... .I dont know what the future holds but I dont want to change my current situation.

What I would do is take longer with your responses, if she texts you or calls you, don't respond right away, space out your messages. It sounds like she's not sure what she wants, she certainly wants you at arms length.

[flare1]

Thank you for the welcome and the response.  So it was silent for a while but coincidentally some new developments that thrust me into uncharted territory.  So she texted that she wants to keep her relationship with her new bf, and then LITERALLY 5 mins later I get another text that says, actually I don't want a relationship with him, THEN, she CALLS me and said they got into a big fight and he texted her... .___ you... .and blocked her etc.  Basically they got into a fight and he said some things that hurt her so she retaliated with,... .I can see why your (ex) wife shut down.  That was it, he went total awol so she says.  THEN, she had this most lucid moment of clarity and told me that she feels like she hurts people unintentionally and knows she does it and she feels bad about it and wants to get better.  Oddly, when she was describing it she was using odd language, sometime she would use "he" and sometimes she would use "people" and she never once said she was upset because she loved or cared about him but did acknowledge that she felt bad she hurt HIM, she was also just mad at herself.  She compared him to her ex husband, smae thing she did with me.  Anyways, it so bizarre because its like Im looking in to my past relationship with her play out with someone else and shes giving me the play by play.  My friend seems to think shes fabricating a lot of this as leverage but I don't see why since I already asked for her back so what purpose would that serve her.  She said... .maybe this is what I needed to know that you (ME) will be there for me.  I am in such murky water I have no idea where to go from here other than just be here.  I don't want to be her emotional crutch that shes just using or if she has intentions of reconciling with me.  They will probably make up and then I will be discarded.  Thanks.

[once removed]

hi flare1, id like to join Mutt and say

I am in such murky water I have no idea where to go from here other than just be here.  I don't want to be her emotional crutch that shes just using or if she has intentions of reconciling with me.  They will probably make up and then I will be discarded.  Thanks.

i think this is a good strategy. you dont want to read too much into any one thing, and if reconciliation is an option, you dont want it to be an impulsive rebound; that will crash. put your energy into rebuilding yourself, getting back to that confident and upbeat guy she fell for in the first place - and not for her, but for you.

who initiated the last split, or was it mutual?

[flare1]

Thank you for the reply.  The split, i think was mutual, she was even trying to recall and shes said... .i think it was something small... .but really what happened was i moved into a new place and the previous owner left some of his kids clothes here and I texted her a pic of one of the shirts because i thought it was her daughters and her reply was... .that was all the evidence she needed to know i was cheating on her with another woman that had a child.  I did NC and she sent several texts in the weeks to follow but stead fast until I reached out to her.  her current interest really isn't a rebound per se, theyve known each other a very long time and helped each other through their mutual divorces as friends.  Today shes texts... .Im really sad about what happened... .I was thinking it was about us, but no, she says shes said that she hurt him with her words.  She is def using me for support and told me shes not sure about us and she needs to heal herself but unsure if she has any intention whatsoever of reconciling with me.  I mean, its hard to believe that the fight she had with her current bf will be the only one but I can tell from her voice and texts she genuinely feels bad and wants to make up with him, but she is very careful not to say that she has any actual feelings towards him, bizarre.  It leaves me wondering if she contacted him when I had fights with her.  But I appreciate your advice and I am trying to do that but no real healing will start until this ends or if she takes me back and I get on the roller coaster better equipped.  I will say, with some hope, she told me she was diagnosed with depression and is now on meds for it, along with sleeping meds and even said she has abandonment issues.  This is the part that is SO HARD.  Is she really that self aware and wants to get or is she just making believe so she wants me to think so?  Also, so much for the damn health system that wont diagnose her with BPD but maybe she was and doesn't want to tell me.  I just feel that her heart is empty towards me but she is struggling big time with her issues and its hard to give when you're in crisis mode (not making excuses for her but just some compassion).  The texting is getting a little out of hand is is very heavy stuff, I think I need to pull back on that and not drive her away.  Appreciate any additional insight. 

[once removed]

I did NC and she sent several texts in the weeks to follow but stead fast until I reached out to her. 

future reference: NC is not a strategy you want to employ in order to save a relationship.

This is the part that is SO HARD.  Is she really that self aware and wants to get or is she just making believe so she wants me to think so? 

it sounds like she is aware that she suffers from general issues and is seeking some treatment for them. i would neither dismiss it nor put too much stock in it. by that i mean, BPD traits do not go into remission overnight, and self awareness, while a catalyst for change, is not change. it is, however, a good path for her to go down, and that can lead to great things. its a positive development. support it.

The texting is getting a little out of hand is is very heavy stuff, I think I need to pull back on that and not drive her away.  Appreciate any additional insight. 

getting a little out of hand on whos end, yours or hers?

[flare1]

Oh good point, let me clarify. The NC after the breakup was when I had no intention of saving the relationship at all.  I'm only now trying to get her back.  As far as texts, they come in waves start off just small talk and then she gets into serious topics and I respond but find myself repeating my intenations which is silly since she knows this by now, because last text i told her that as some point she will need to decide what role if any I will have in her life but I'm just happy to reconnect with hher.  I went to her place last night but it was just a session of her using me as an emotional dumpster  for all of her feelings, none of which related to me and her as a couple. I'm just trying to be there for her hoping she will come around. Funny, I read a post on here that had to do with BPD not being able to congratulate people on accomplishments. I went back to the text and sure enough when I told her, I sold my business no congratulations.  All my friends family and even strangers where congratulating me.

[once removed]

hows it going now flare1?

[flare1]

It's been ramping up with contact and communication.  It's actually been very pleasant but as we've been getting closer shes going black and white with me.  We had an awesome date the other day but today she cancelled our weekend plans but they can come back online at any moment.  All in a day I guess.  She is still grieving over her last relationship so thats not helping.  Also, as things ramp up shes addressing more issues about me and her when we were together, and there is some pain there.  Shes skeptical that I am better equipped this time around and I don't blame her but she has to be accountable for her part which I tell her in a constructive way.  I know this is all vague but it's very hot and cold at the moment and I'm waiting for the breakthrough moment but I can't wait forever.  yesterday for the first time she was asking about my feelings and she actually said "i was a changed man" during our date, then today its the devaluing.  I will keep it updated but it's just been more of the same but I think I am inching closer.   Im not sure how BPD hearts work since, she told me she fell for the guy that she was with when we were apart (but knew him for years before), and also me and shes still not over her ex husband from 4 years ago.  How does that even work?

[once removed]

hi flare1,

any update? how is it going?

are you using the communication tools?

[flare1]

Ok, timely time for an update.  a lot has happened since my last post so i will try and summarize it clearly.  I have been using the communication tools and it makes a HUGE difference.  Validating their feelings, non judgmental, echoing back their feelings works.  However, the thing I've been struggling with is that Im feeling like no matter how strong, stable, alpha, whatever you want to call it, you will never change their behaviors and you will always be subject to the roller coaster even if you maintain perfect composure.  The communication tactics help de-escalate situations and I think builds rapport/attraction because i think they feel that you understand them better.  It is so so hard but it does work.  Sometimes I forget and then I will respond at what she says face value instead of taking a moment to think about what is she really try to say.  Its exhausting and you still 2nd guess yourself with your responses.  Anyway, here is a recap and update of my situation and if anyone has any insight please respond... .

Ok, so When i reached out to her she was in a relationship with a guy she knew before me that then turned romantic when me and her broke up.  2 Days after I reached out they had a blow up and he cut her off and blocked her.  Well... .this is on me because I knew at some point he would reach back out and I was taking the risk of being used as a rebound.  But he could have been the rebound as well and me the real thing when we broke up so chicken egg kinda thing.  So about 10 days ago, sure enough he unblocked her and reached out via text but it was a farewell text at first.  She was very upset but seemed to be ok with and she told me over and over and over again she did not want to be with him (i never asked, she just voluntarily said that).  Ok, so last Sunday i was at her house, keep in mind its been a month since we've been reestablishing a connecting and it has progressed beautifully.  Weve been hanging out more, been physical, shes more open, she will call me out of the blue.  On Sunday she had me over almost thew whole day with her daughter there as well which I thought was a break through day because she doesnt take that lightly and that was a big step in the relationship when we first met.  Anyway, when i was there on Sunday the ex was not stop texting her sappy i want yuou back texts.  She showed me the phone and then turned it off because she appeared annoyed, he wouldn't stop texting her.  I wasnt happy, but I didn't make an issue of it, then find out HE DROVE PAST THE HOUSE while I was there.  What does that say about HIS stability and even if they do get back together how thats going to go?  I wonder if hes struggling as well or will be if they get back together.  We all have weak moments but I dont engage in that kind of behavior ever.

Ok, well this now brings me to my current crisis.  So Last monday they spoke, i think in person but not sure, and she told me this.  I asked, well how did it go, and shes says good, he revealed a lot of truths I didnt know about (wont even try to go there).  Then this is where everything has now turned.  I asked... .what do you and him want out of that relationship?  She says, i told him i am focused on my recovery and he supports that. BS!

Ok, so now I had to stand up to this.  I told her, "that was a vauge answer you need to be more clear in your feelings and you cannot have both of us in the picture thats unacceptable becasue someone is going to get hurt.  If you want to be with him then go be with him and then tell him me and you are no longer together"  She backed downed almost immediately and said I was right... .but... .she said she needs time to think about everything.  She also said, she and him have "fire" aka passion but she doesnt want to base a relationship on short term feelings which actaully is pretty mindful of her. IMHO I think she is mistaking fire for instability. Well... .she turned down  my offer to get together this weekend and has completely ghosted me which I can say 100% they have spent the weekend together and it is one of the worst feelings imaginable especially since they had sex not long before i came back in which makes it likley they would resume that.  We did not have sex thus far but did a lot of physical stuff and was getting more and more every time we saw each other. I have not reached out to her at all and Im expecting a text of some type.  Part of me just wants the break up text so I can move on, but why did she love bomb me they day before? i have no idea what to do if anything.  I know they wont work out but its not about him its really about her and Im not competing with him.

Some strange behaviors I want to point out that whoever is reading this, if you respond can add some color.  On thursday she LOVE BOMBED the hell out of me over text.  I think she was doing that in anticipation of knowing she was going to not be around this weekend to keep me on the hook?  She wrote not 1 but 2 super long messages of how good I am with her duaghter and she loves having me around the 3 of us... .then the next day literally said we cant get together next weekend because she will have her daughter (mind blown, what the heck?).  Also on Friday she says she wants to see where I work and stop by and some more love bombing but not as intense, again I think sucking me in, but why of she is back with ex?  i will say when I put my foot down about seeing both of us, she knows I wont put up with it.  So here I am having the worst 2 days in my life thinking about being with another man.  Ughhhh, help, please.
 

[once removed]

hi flare1,

the long and short of it is that you are handling this well, and thats going to take you far.

1. youve learned some good tools. theyre working. that leaves a mark.
2. youve kept yourself out of this love triangle and not rescued, but were assertive. that shows strength, which is mighty attractive.

bottom line, she is confused, conflicted, and not emotionally "done" with this other relationship. that was always a risk. it really sucks to have made progress only to experience this.

i know this is smarting, but this is also a day to day situation and next moves count. is there any update today? have you heard from her?