I'm trying to take my Improving skills to the next level, but it's hard

[DaddyBear77]

Looking back on what WAS happening a year ago, I’d say things have gotten better. Very rarely does my uBPDw wake me up in the middle of the night. When we DO wake up because of noise or the dog or some random reason, we comfort each other and fall back asleep. Part of this is my attention to communication skills. Part of this is probably just random / natural fluctuations in each of our moods and abilities to cope with stress.

None of the improvement is because my wife’s BPD/NPD is getting “better.”

In fact, my wife is more entrenched in the “victim” role than ever before. And it shows. This morning, my back hurt so I rolled over on to my side. I turned kind of hard, tugged on the blankets, and my wife sprung up. “Why in the hell would you wake me up like that? What is your f-Ing problem? Are you trying to torture me? Sleep deprive me? What?” Then, I said “I’m really sorry. It must have been a huge jolt to get woken up like that. My back hurt and I was rolling over. Is there anything I can do to help you get back to sleep?” It escalates, because now she’s SURE I did it on purpose, because now I’m trying to cover it up with some story about my back. Classic, she says - you “drop a bomb” (by waking me up) “and then gaslight me.”

The point isn’t even the argument or the subject or even my response. I did as well as I could seeing how we were both jolted up 3 hours early. The point is, all the same time bombs are there. In her current state, nothing will possibly be her fault. She’s been in this place for going on 4 years now. She left one of the best therapists she’s ever seen so she could go to Crisis Counceling at the local domestic abuse shelter. She’s taken on a very radical view against men, which has solidified even further since the US elections. If she’s not telling me specifically that she hates me and I’m bad, then she’s talking about what sh_tbags men are in general. “95% of you are worthless and irredeemable” she says the other day. “I’ve given up on trying to find the 5%, so thanks for that.”

It’s a really bad situation here and I’m really not sure how much more I can do to improve it. I’ll keep trying but it’s getting harder and harder to have hope for this relationship.

PS - I got a new job last night. So at least there’s that

-DaddyBear77

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Tattered Heart]

I'm sorry. I can imagine the frustration of seeing yourself work really hard and then not to see any changes in her. It's sad that so often those with BPD just seem stuck in negativity and nothing we say or do can get them to see life with any positivity or hope.

What made her want to go to a crisis counselor instead of her regular counselor? It sounds like the counseling is teaching her concepts about abuse, but not realizing that she is not being abused.

Have you started looking at your values so you can begin re-evaluating your boundaries? What are values important to you in regards to your marriage, how others treat you, etc.?

[DaddyBear77]

Great questions, TH, thank you.

She decided to go to crisis counseling because, I suspect, she was feeling challenged and needed to retreat to the safe, seemingly more powerful position of being an abuse victim. I'll take this opportunity to say, I can completely understand the comfort of being in Karpman Triangle as the "abuser" - I did it, too, and for years all I did in therapy was complain about how abused *I* was.

Anyway, at the time she decided our marriage was too abusive to stay, I was actually getting really good therapeutic help, including medication. I was also talking with her mother to support my efforts to change the dynamic. She was hurting me, her mother, and our daughter quite a bit with what she was doing (she still is, but not quite as badly). The crisis center was all too willing to take her in, because on the surface, she really DID look beat up by all that was going on. But in almost 3 years, the center has done little more than give her a place to vent and talk about options for leaving the marriage.

In regards to my core values, I have, in fact, been looking at them... .

At the very top of my list, I value kindness, compassion, and love. Second to that, I also value respect, family, and loyalty. I determined these values by looking back many, many years, before I was married, before I had even been in any romantic relationships.

When I look at whether or not I "walk the talk" when it comes to these values in my marriage, I am deeply troubled by how quickly I give them up. One of the hardest things for me to realize has been that my usual caretaking and codependent behavior is NOT kind and loving. So, I've learned I need to find ways to ACTUALLY be kind, compassionate, and loving. And, by the way, that includes being kind, compassionate, and loving to myself as well as to others. I am still very much in a learning stage on these things.

I believe that my values regarding kindness, compassion, and love DO align with my wife's core values. However, I find that she also has a very hard time living these values, for different but equally difficult reasons. For this reason, I've decided over and over again to stay and try and work on things.

Unfortunately, some of my core values are NOT aligned with my wife's values in several key areas, including how we raise our children, how we handle the family finances, and the role of an extended family as they relate to our family. What I've realized is that these conflicts are at the core of most arguments and fights we have. The problem I've found is that because of the effects of BPD and NPD, we can't leverage the usual ways of resolving and coming to terms on shared values. BPD and NPD are like accelerants to a fire. The fuel of the fire is the conflict in values, and without BPD and NPD, it might be a fire you can fight with things like counseling and productive conversations. But because of the triggers, the entrenchment, all the scorched earth tactics and "walking on eggshell" land mines, the arguments quickly consume all the oxygen and we have no choice but to retreat.

It's a really complicated situation, so there's no cut and dried answer. But getting to the point where we can resolve some of these deep, difficult issues seems like a really, really hard road most of the time.

[Tattered Heart]

At the very top of my list, I value kindness, compassion, and love. Second to that, I also value respect, family, and loyalty. I determined these values by looking back many, many years, before I was married, before I had even been in any romantic relationships.  

Those are really good values. Looking at those and determining what that would look like in your marriage is a great starting point.

One of the hardest things for me to realize has been that my usual caretaking and codependent behavior is NOT kind and loving. So, I've learned I need to find ways to ACTUALLY be kind, compassionate, and loving. And, by the way, that includes being kind, compassionate, and loving to myself as well as to others. I am still very much in a learning stage on these things.

Makes sense. Co-dependent behavior usually isn't done with the intent of being kind and loving. Like our pwBPD it's often done in regards to maintaining or regaining control. Finding ways that are actually kind and loving can be tricky when codependency is all we've known. So great job realizing that difference and making efforts to make it about being good to her.

What I've realized is that these conflicts are at the core of most arguments and fights we have. The problem I've found is that because of the effects of BPD and NPD, we can't leverage the usual ways of resolving and coming to terms on shared values.

It's in the midst of these conflicts that it's most important for those core values to shine through. Compassion and kindess can be seen while disagreeing and I think finding that place for you will help you determine what behavior is important and maybe help you find ways to re-enforce those boundaries when your W gets means during conflict.

How can you honor yourself and your value of kindess when your W begins to belittle you or call you names?

BPD and NPD are like accelerants to a fire. The fuel of the fire is the conflict in values, and without BPD and NPD, it might be a fire you can fight with things like counseling and productive conversations. But because of the triggers, the entrenchment, all the scorched earth tactics and "walking on eggshell" land mines, the arguments quickly consume all the oxygen and we have no choice but to retreat.

I think you are so close to finding the water to quench the fire. Lately I've been re-looking at my first empowerment tools. And it came in the simple form of "I don't like that." I remember the first time I said it to my H. He looked completely confused and taken aback. He wanted to get mad but he didn't know how to respond because I was so direct about his behavior. And I repeated it the next time and the next time. And after awhile I realized that he was understanding that I did not like it when he called me names.

How would your wife respond when she began to complain about "men" if you said something like, "I understand that you believe many men are no good. I don't like it when you imply that I am no good. It's mean and it hurts my feelings." Don't forget SET.