Major dis-regulation in process

[formflier]

We had a conversation a couple days ago about an upcoming trip.  We were on same page... .basically.

Now... .it would appear that some mythical thing she "told" me a month ago is the plan all along.

And... .because I was confused and asked for clarification... .she is not going and everyone is staying home.

Sure... there are minor details about me "hijacking" her plans and some other comments that are straight out of the BPD handbook.

Good grief.

I went for a walk and did some rhythmic breathing like my P had shown me... .it really did the trick.  About to take a hot bath.

She is off in another corner of the house... doing... .who knows what.

FF

[evanescent]

So sorry to hear that, but no stranger to it myself.

Time and space aren't the cure, but are priceless medicine for the rest of us!

[Cole]

Now... .it would appear that some mythical thing she "told" me a month ago is the plan all along.

FF,

Sorry you get to deal with this. Sounds like something you have probably gone through before. Would writing out the plans as you make them and posting them in a conspicuous place help? Then there is an agreed to record next time?

   

[Enabler]

I tried the whole writing minutes to our decision making meeting during a discussion a few months ago about organising a complex mid divorce family holiday. It might have been a bit patronising to ask her to sign the minutes and conclusions after we'd come to a resolution but I was deadly serious. When she refused and asked why I was asking her to sign the agreed plan I pointed out the grounds with which she was seeking a divorce were that I was controlling, I don't listen to her, she plays no part in planning process and I always do what I want with no consideration to her opinion... .rather than my reality that we sit down, discuss, compromise and plan... .then she feels at a later date that this is not what she signed up for nor wants to take responsibility for "it" if it doesn't go to plan and rejects her involvement in the process. I think the period of calm in our married life came when we had email discussions at work and there was clearly and audit trail with which to refer back to.

[formflier]

I prefer the minutes... the signatures... the reality of what is talked about.  She doesn't...

Very much like the enabler story.  She will swear up and down that I never agreed to xyz or I would never have even asked for abc. 

Then... showing proof that we were doing EXACTLY what she wanted WHEN she wanted and HOW she wanted is a bit much to deal with.  I should be "more understanding" and "know what she means".

In truth... .this sort of thing is much less now than a year ago... .the big picture of our BPDish relationship is since 2009 there are "waves" of push pull that are getting better... .as I learn to not be drawn into them.

More later.

FF

[Enabler]

I found myself making the best of her choices rather than not enjoying my own choices. Fortunately I'm pretty easy going as long as something happens.

[Red5]

@formflier, & et’ all
Writing things down, equals notes, “copious notes”… Which for me, the “checklists guy”, means writing down directions, How to ensure the best outcome, the best way forward,
For you it is a trip that will take place, at the moment for me, it the approaching holidays, Christmas to be exact.
In the past; Christmas more time than not has been a complete disaster, and each year, I try my best to stave off this impending debacle, conflagration, and absolute crash…
So Christmas, and so comes Christmas shopping, ie’ gifts… gifts for everyone, whether they want them or not, and you (I) better get it right, don’t be caught in a minute/moment of a lackadaisical type of attitude, or else things will digress quickly.
Woe betide to YOU (me) !
So what do I do to remedy my over fifty absent mindedness, well I make what we called in the USMC, a “POA&M”… Which is a “plan of action and milestones”… Milestones means dates, like warning lights in a cockpit, must complete the list of things to do (action) in time enough to meet the deadline (Christmas)… So several years ago, I suggested, “hey, why don’t we make a list,of what to get for everyone, you, me, our kids, yours, and mine (second marriage), your sisters, your mother, and my mother, and whomever else… Yes, a list, you’d have thought I was a State Trooper issuing a speeding citation on the way to a funeral… Yup, a bad idea… believe it or not… don’t get caught writing anything down, or else checking it twice, or you will be naughty, and colored (split) black and NOT nice !
I think it’s all about her need to control, and me (perceived) to not have any ideas of my own… I was told I take all the fun (thought) out of it (what ?)… grumble grumble (Grinch)…
So this year, if I can keep the peace, and keep her happy, and keep her from blowing up (triggers), and somehow keep her from taking the tree down on Christmas Eve in a rage (again)… Well, I’ll be doing good (insert frowning emoji here).
Trips… Very dangerous, lots of sorties off to lands north south and west, resultant in; ensuing arguments, fights, and… nowhere to escape to, yes, trapped in the in the car, no escape, trips are a bad idea for this family… And I have historical data to back up my claim… But we will work on it… but this “working on it” is absolutely exhausting, at this point.
Today is 26 October, and the holidaze approach, Hang in there my fellow travelers !

[MaroonLiquid]

Sorry to hear that FF.  It’s extremely frustrating when plans were made and they try and change them at the last minute on a whim.  My exW did that a lot especially if her and her children weren’t center of attention or if there was a slight chance she would have to be around certain people.  Sucks.

[Red5]

How about this one... .

Wife wants to take a trip (to leave town during Thanksgiving so she does not have to be with ->her<- family / my in-laws)... .so we start setting up the trip, she is not working now, so she sits at home during the day, and cruises the net, looking for our weekend destination... I get home from work, and my brain is scrambled... .trying to dump everything that I have been into at work all day (I write checklists for the Navy []), .yes, I am trying to "decompress" so I can effectively have "comm" with her, .so I can talk to her (about trip)... .so she does not like the idea of me, having to (I need to) un-wind a bit, and put out the work induced "helmet fire" between my ears'... .and she then comes out with... ."wait for it"... .my wife says to me, ."YOU NEVER help, I have to make ALL the plans myself... .I have to do EVERYTHING, .you you you you... .

Exhausting... .all happiness is now secured, you are entering the BPD zone, all efforts (JADE) to escape are futile beyond this point, so don't even try it... .quick, open tool box (mentally)... .which tool to use, hurry, she is coming for you, must evade, .hurry !

If you can't make a little light, and crack a smile once in a while, its over !... .must be the (old) Marine in me, looking for a little humor in the "midst" (FOG).

v/r Red5

[formflier]

Wow... .I think I'm about to hijack my own thread... .  I don't think I've ever done this before.  Everyone... .hold on to their butts... .anti-matter and matter may collide.

Stickem up... .this is a hijack.   

Wow!... .write checklists for the Navy?  I'm so curious... .especially that they let a Marine do that. 

Can you share more?

I'm a retired Naval Aviator and I'm a rabid Star Wars fan as well, which is where I assume Red 5 comes from.

Last but not least, I see we have similar writing styles.  Nice work... .I like that... .and get how you like to make your writing... .conversational... . 

I miss the service and I miss "messing with Marines" (who in full disclosure are some of the finest people on the planet!)  I'll share a quick Marine story.


I'm the Commanding Officer of a shore location that was fairly remote.  The Marines started a facility about an hour away.  Some kind of security detachment.  From time to time they would stop by my base for administrative support.  One day I hear them moaning about how long they had to drive to go to the doctor (5-6 hours).

So... .I called their NCO (I think their Os were TDY or something) and asked them if they would rather come to my base clinic (driving an hour... .vice 5 or 6).  There was this incredulous... ."Can we do that?" to which I said "sure"... .followed by him asking ":)o we have to sign anything?" to which I said "nope... just show up with your records and my corpsman will take care of you" (they didn't have a corpsman... .yet)

If my memory serves me right... .we were talking 50-60 Marines.  That was... .good grief... about 10 years ago.  A few years back I checked in and asked if they were still doing that... .and the answer was yes.  No MOUs... .nothing. 

Just the Navy supporting Marines.  Good stuff.

FF

[Enabler]

I'm not sure why but I find validating the "my day was so tough" really challenging. Maybe its because I'm up at 5 and back at 7pm and work hard to provide the comfortable life she always complained about not having. Like you eluded to, sitting at home surfing the web for holidays isn't exactly a chore and something I'd love to do for a day or two. What do we think pwBPD hope to gain out of this or what are they hoping to project? Is it guilt that they've spent all day at home and they know you've worked hard, thus they feel a sniff of guilt therefore look to head it off with "I've had a terrible day too!"? Do they feel their position as perma victim is somewhat threatened when they see you/is come home bleary eyed and look to ensure we can't adopt any sympathy. Its baffling. By validating the feeling I feel like I'm validating the sentiment that surfing the web is tough and not preferable to going to work all day. I suppose this is why her working full time was easier on the relationship since it was easier to validate and empathise with being a challenge.

[evanescent]

Great story formflier. Sometimes the people doing the work know how to get it done better than the paperwork!

Enabler, I think there is something to what you are saying. While I myself embraced both the notion and pragmatism of having a stay at home mother for my children, she often struggled at getting the basics done. Not that she didn't ultimately take care of business on the good days, but migranes, stomach upset, etc., they all seemed to happen more frequently than to the average person.

I was fortunate in that my wife usually recognized her inactivity and rarely took it out on me when I put in a large mess of hours at work, but it seemed at times that even that had a limit. More than two weeks of significant overtime in a row seemed to trigger her into obsessive ruminations and splitting various people for spurious reasons (usually stemming from her inability to just tell people 'no'. Even so, if she never sincerely apologized to me, we never would have lasted past year 3. (I gave her leeway on the birth of our youngest in year 2.)

More recently however, with a just turned 13 year old, getting himself to school and back with no trouble,  and my older children out of the house and attending school, the need for the SAHM mostly evaporated. She tried going back to work two years ago as a paper carrier, which was a disaster for many reasons beyond and including the BPD. That lasted about 6 months and I was damned happy when she quit! The last year she got another job in retail that she also struggled with an ultimately quit after just 3 months. Both were pretty thankless, but both were made extra miserable by her inability to say no to extra work and shifts etc.  3 months later, still looking for other work, she finally just gave up on it all three weeks ago.

She was not uneducated or incompetent, having a bachelor of science degree, and able to plan events and complete projects in ways that I left me in awe, but unlike a full time job, none of it was routine. Routine was her nemesis.

[formflier]

One quick comment to Enabler. 

Please don't make the mistake of assuming they are "thinking it through" and deciding how to communicate with you.

Much more likely that emotions are "leading the cart" and the communications choices just kinda follow along.

I'm not saying this to let "them" off the hook, but I would hope that everyone can have more empathy for "why" they act the way they do. 

Empathy (for me) tends to turn down the desire to "get back" at my wife.  Instead I'm not trying to focus more on how tough it must feel for her to experience the results of her choices.

Not that I want to "save" her from those results.

FF

[evanescent]

Exactly formflier. I learned how to grey-rock my way through fourteen years of marriage before I ever realized there was a term for it, but more importantly, I always understood that whatever had triggered my wife always had some basis in reality. Being able to empathize with that to validate WHY she was upset went a long way toward allowing her to self-calm.

I understood that while I often didn't have a lot of choice about working extra hours, the extra time left at home contributed to her feeling of abandonment. I also went to great psychological lengths to never come home angry no matter how much work may have sucked. (Perhaps minor road rage recovery, but nothing 5 minutes to myself and a fresh porter couldn't knock down.)

[Enabler]

I agree with you both here and pretty certain it's reflexive rather than reflective. So here's my theory. So it's pretty apparent that uBPDw lacks CONSISTENCY in executive thinking. She has the ability to get her sht together and be really future step thinking, "I want this so I need to do this and do that and once I have that then this will square up etc etc". However when emotionally dysregulated this goes out the window. There also seems to be a background noise (a bit like tinnitus) which dials up and dials down depending on something. I'm not 100% sure what that something is but I'd imagine it's  something like Mummy doesn't love me. When the noise gets louder she is more likely to have emotional reflexes (due to her emotional pint glass being more full) and less likely to have executive thinking or maybe less likely to hear her executive thinking. At the moment for example I think she believes that she is thinking with her executive frontal lobe because she's coming up with an action... .I need to get a divorce. But actually this isn't a well thought out plan as it only involves a reflex "I must get away from my abusive husband" rather than a thought out reflective plan considering not only her own behaviours in the past but her behaviour and likely actions going forward, there's no depth to the reflex because there is no plan. A plan has milestones, action points, consequences and responsibilities. She has in the past demonstrated her ability to make things happen in the relationship and in situations out of the marriage she still demonstrates an ability to formulate action plans and get things she cares about done... .but HERE AND NOW she's unable to apply any executive thinking to her marriage, the sale of her home, the purchase of a new home, the divorce she reflexively says she wants or any realistic thoughts about how things look like post separation. It's quite odd and I suppose this is the part that makes BPD feel so personal (because it is, as the enmeshed partner). They appear so high functioning and thoughtful with others yet thoughtless and for want of a better word dumb towards their partner.

I spent the weekend doing all the jobs around the house ready for its sale that I don't want for the divorce I really don't want... .she spent the weekend making a giant cardboard cutout of Noah's Ark for a school christian storytelling thing she does.

[Red5]

@formflier,
Ok, I will be complicit in your thread high jacking operation (grin),
Yes, I write checklists, without giving too much away, I am a retired Marine, enlisted, Master Sergeant, aviation ordnance, “O” level, 26 years, Harriers and Hornets, all squadron time save; initial training, and three years on instructor duty and about 1.5 years at a Staff billet at the end.
I have the “perfect retired” job, our team is associated (part of) with NAWCWD, and we write, and maintain the checklists, and manuals associated with airborne weapons and stores handling/loading, and all facets thereof, ie’ inspection, breakout, aircraft preparation, arming, and de-arming so forth and so on… which is tied to NATOPS, it’s a great job and I still get to be around aircraft, Marines and Sailors, and ordnance. On our team we have both retired, and former Officers, and Enlisted. There are about a dozen and a “half” of us in our “code”, and of these folks there are only four former Marines.
Star Wars, my most fav machine from the original movie is the T-65B X-wing Starfighter, I have never really liked the endless sequels, and am quite partial to the original movie, but I did watch all the rest, including the newest one (movie), I am also big R2D2 fan… Red5 was thought up on the “fly”… but I do like it : )
As I had the opportunity to serve for two and a half decades, I do have a seemingly endless amount of “war stories”, of both operational and as well “liberty” time… I had the opportunity to of course serve next to many fine Sailors of the US Navy on many occasions, from  shipboard time, to instructor duty down in Pensacola, to a particular squadron tour in Cecil Filed Florida…… and I still to this day maintain many friendships with many current and former Sailors and Marines, many fond  memories of the time spent in the service.
And I concur; Good Stuff!
P.S. Besides naval (world) history, and aviation in general, I am also a big NASA; Space Program “fan”… another of my fav movies is “The Right Stuff”,
Hope all is well and good in your grid square formflier !
V/R Red5

[formflier]

This thread is so done!   

After two shore commands and my retirement I got the idea that running a county would be just like running a shore command.  Big organziation, lots of people going a bazillion different directions, budgets... .etc etc. 

What you and I call basic leadership. 

And... that's really what it was.

The issue though is you and I (and the rest of the military) have bosses that are "trained decision makers".  They will realize that even though she situation is sh%tty and you don't have nearly enough information on hand... .something needs to be decided and they happen to be the senior guy... .so they suck it up make their decision and the "organization" carries on behind them.

Yeah... .ummm... doesn't work that way with politicians.  I reported directly to an elected board (I was appointed by the board).  Anyway... .it got very frustrating to deliver exactly what they asked for... .and voted for... .only to find the political winds had changed... .

So... .big life lesson.  FF will no longer be working for politicians.  I'm hoping to do some "MBA level" consulting, when I get done with my MBA program.  Something that works with my 100% VA rating. 

I ended up with more bumps and bruises thank I expected.  Luckily I still appear intact and on some days I am.

Anyway... back to star wars.  I parent from the Empire Strikes Back... .you know... the scene where Lando complains to Darth Vader and Vader says... .well... .you can watch it below.

Works especially well when breaking up issues between my boys... .breaks the tension and make a point that "they don't want me solving their problems... ."   


https://youtu.be/OXyH1XkQo44


More later.

FF