Conflicted about reaching out

[steelwork]

It's been over three years since I saw him in person, two and a half since he ghosted, and two since the last fleeting contact. They say around here sometimes that "no contact" can become a crutch. I mean, I don't work with him or really have friends in common--or none that either of us sees socially anymore--so there is no reason to be in touch, other than the fact that I always thought we would be friends, and he meant a whole lot to me in that way.

The recent death of my brother has had me reaching out to people more, and generally shifting perspectives and reminding me of life's fragility. Almost daily I feel a strong pull to write to my ex about my brother, and almost simultaneously, I freeze up.

What I mean is, I both desire and fear a conversation with him. And the fear of it makes me stubbornly wish to pursue it. On the other hand, when I contemplate it, I end up scrutinizing my motives.

- Do I imagine there will be closure? If so, how would disappointment feel?

- Do I just want to "have my say"?

- Do I want information about his life and how it's gone on without me?

- Do I imagine that my brother's death will put things in wider perspective between us and dispel some of the hurt and remind us that life is too short for unkindness, especially where there was once love, and somehow will this cause us to be better people to each other without relying on the dream of being together to inspire our best selves?

- Is there any part of me that wants him back, or wants him to want me back? (The answer, of course, is yes--though it's also true that I have come to see that we were all wrong for each other, and sometimes I shudder thinking of what I would have had to give up for a life with him.)

I don't know that I am healthy enough yet--or that I will ever be. I mean emotionally, with my abandonment trauma. I don't want to be hurt again. But I want to be brave and strong, too.

What are your thoughts, good people?

[Lucky Jim]

Hey steelwork, When I find myself in what I call "mental pretzels," I know it's time to hit pause and sit with my feelings, just to observe for a while.  It's like letting the water clear before one can see the bottom of a pond.  If you still can't see it after this exercise, then it might be time to leave and come back another day.

NC is a tool for helping Nons cope in the aftermath of a b/u, but it's not an unbending rule.  At the end of the day, in my view, it depends on what is right for you.  On one hand, reaching out gives the power to your Ex by putting the ball in his court.  On the other hand, if you have no expectations of closure and/or are prepared to get hurt again, then maybe it will be useful to you.  It's your call!

LuckyJim

[g2outfitter]

First of all... .my deepest condolences regarding your brother.  Prayers to you.

Like you, I have no reason to reach out to my exBPD but at times I try to come up with several good reasons to do so... .i.e. wishing her a Happy Thanksgiving, Merry Christmas, Happy Birthday, etc.  This isn't unusual for me because I usually do those things to friends and other exes.  The difference is that I do not carry a flame for my other exes as I still do with my exBPD (she was my last relationship).  In other words, I am indifferent to the reaction I may get with the non BPD exes but no matter what response I get from my exBPD, it will stir up emotions of some sort. Therefore, I have refrained from reaching out to her at this point.

I think from what you wrote, your embers of desire still burn, or at least flicker.  I think in a lot of us, our hearts haven't caught up with our brains in how we view our past relationship with our exBPD.  You mention that part of you wants him back, or wants him to want you back (heart) but you also have come to see that you were all wrong for each other and shudder of what you would have had to give up for a life with him (brain).  That is such a difficult internal struggle and I sympathize with you because I share that same struggle.

You say that you don't want to be hurt again.  I believe if that is truly a possibility that you should not reach out at this time... .it's just not worth it.  One day you will be indifferent to his response but it just sounds like you're not there yet.  You are hurting as it is, do you want to risk additional pain?

Don't think you are weak for not reaching out - that's not true.  I would think that you are being brave and strong for NOT reaching out.  It takes a brave and strong person to follow their mind, when they know following their heart is not in their best interest.  This is especially true when it comes to relationships.  You're at a vulnerable time in your life right now so the temptation is really strong but again, if the possibility of being hurt is there... .resist that temptation.  In my experience, my exBPD was never good at comforting me during my times of vulnerability when we were together, so I have no reason to believe she would step up to the plate in doing so now that we are apart.  Is that something you can relate to or not?  Remember, the emotions you are feeling at this time are not mutual in your exBPD.

Sometimes I want to reach out to my exBPD in a very friendly way just to show her that I am a good enough person to rise above the things she did to me (my heart).  Then I realize that I already know this, that I don't need to prove it to her, that message would be lost on her anyway and more than likely I won't get the response I would hope for (my brain).  I'm just glad that although my heart still tries to control my actions that I have become strong enough to listen to my brain for a change.

I'm sure you will do what is right for you... .but remember, not reaching out does not in any way make you weak.  An alcoholic isn't weak for resisting the temptation to reach for his next drink, he is only weak when he does.

[steelwork]

Thanks for the reply, LJ. I get everything you are saying. The thing is--I've been contemplating this since my brother died in late August and I can't come to a decision about it. It's driving me a little nuts. Fear, self-doubt, resolve, questioning, repeat. Ad nauseam.

[steelwork]

G2outfitter: all spot-on.

And, no, he was not good at dealing with my crises.

[once removed]

hi steelwork,

i rekindled a friendship recently. i contemplated it for a year, maybe a little more, and the desire to do so would pop up from time to time, and each time for whatever intangible reason id talk myself out of it and just put it on hold; tell myself "now is not the time, but the time may come". it did. no way to say for sure how it would have gone, but im glad i waited. granted, those circumstances were not as emotionally loaded as yours.

youve struggled with the desire to contact him on and off and it seems like each time, you determine similarly, "now is not the time, but the time may come". and it seems to me that indeed that time comes when we are able to let go of expectations/outcomes.

when and if that time comes, i dont recommend writing to him about your brother. why? it puts him in a difficult place. hes a jerk if he ignores it. and you dont want that to be the reason he chooses to respond. if it is, theres a good chance that he would be polite but shut it down, and that would feel crummy.

id pose two questions:

1. when and if the time comes, what about just sending "how are you doing?"
2. whats the worst that can happen?

[Lucky Jim]

The thing is--I've been contemplating this since my brother died in late August and I can't come to a decision about it. It's driving me a little nuts. Fear, self-doubt, resolve, questioning, repeat. Ad nauseam.

What is it about the loss of your brother that makes you want to get in touch w/him?

Could it be something more than just the transitory nature of life?

Often I think one thing is the issue when something else is really going on.

LJ

[steelwork]

once removed, I don't know if I will ever truly let go of expectations, or at least hoped-for outcomes. If I did, then what would be the point of reaching out? That goes for any relationship. If I don't care about the outcome, why would I ever get in touch with anyone? But I take your point that I still have too much of myself riding on it.

You're totally right about not getting in touch because of my brother. That would really be manipulative, now that I think of it. The people who I've reached out to to talk about my brother are all people who I knew would be happy to hear from me.

id pose two questions:

1. when and if the time comes, what about just sending "how are you doing?"
2. whats the worst that can happen?

1. Considering how horribly things ended, I feel like it would be bizarre or at least disingenuous to reconnect on such a breezy note.
2. I don't know. I really don't. I'm still pretty vulnerable, and not just because of what happened with him. A lot of things in my life have come to a head in the last few years. Major psychic things.

But maybe I need to do something to change the pattern I've been in.

[steelwork]

What is it about the loss of your brother that makes you want to get in touch w/him?

Could it be something more than just the transitory nature of life?

To some extent I have maybe never stopped looking for one reason or another to reach out. But it is really true that the death of my brother has shaken me about this.

You see, my brother and I had not been on good terms when he died. Looking back, I realize that he'd always been on the outs with one or another of his siblings, and my turn came about four years ago. He did, I'm told, "forgive me" (I didn't do anything wrong), but it was not his nature to mend fences. He expected me to do the work, and I decided I wasn't going to. I maintained a polite distance. It felt like a long-overdue boundary. You have to understand that my brother was a very difficult, very troubled person who had always maintained control over me, from childhood.

I thought I was being my authentic self, asserting my boundaries, whatever. And now this person who I loved so much is gone forever, and it can never be fixed.

I will paste below some of what I said at his memorial.

"Some people have asked me in the last month, when I tell them my brother died: 'Were you close?' I get tongue-tied trying to answer. I don’t know what it’s like to be in some other family and have other siblings. It’s always felt to me like the four of us were members of a wolf pack, or a remote Amazonian tribe, and to lose one of us is not something I can even fully comprehend yet. We’re limbs on a body. If an arm is amputated, do the legs and the other arm miss it?

One of the first things S [my sister] said to me when we saw each other on the day N died: Now we are only three. There was something eternal about four. It was a stable base. I was not closer to any one: I had a different history with each of them. The way things worked out in our family, we lived in different combinations in different places at different times, and it takes all three of my siblings to cover that territory, and now one of them is gone. That’s what I want to talk about. I am the only person here who can talk about being N's little sister.

First came S, and then two and a half years later came N. A was born when S was seven, and she claimed him as hers. That’s what Mom tells us. A was S's baby to carry around and take care of, and then a year and a half later I was born, and I was N's. Growing up, I always knew I was N's, even if he wasn’t around."

Then some specific stuff about N.

"And this wild, spectacularly independent person was interested in me! Often, he was overweeningly interested. He was a merciless teaser and mocker, a brilliant mimic, and he could be a pest. Whatever I was into—say, drawing animals—he would set himself up as my teacher and boss me around. And that continued well into adulthood. But I can positively say that there was no one I looked up to more, and no one whose approval mattered to me as much. I always knew that I was his, and that felt to me like grace: like an unearned and mysterious blessing.

I will end with a memory that came back to me the day after N died: I am 5 and N is 11. He tells me I have been granted a wish. Then he tells me he's sick. What am I going to do with my wish? I can still hear his voice, filled with panic, which sounded real to me.

'I'm dying! You can save me with your wish!'

I said I wished he would not die.

He gave me another wish, and then again he was dying and I had to spend my wish to keep him alive.

This happened over and over. Finally, exasperated, I said: 'I wish you wouldn't die, and that you would never die.'

He said: 'That's two wishes.'"

[steelwork]

Well, I guess that was TMI. Apologies.

Lucky Jim, I just meant to say that my brother's death is not *merely* another pretense. It really did shake my confidence in the emotional structures I've been building up since the ex ghosted. I've lost close family members before (my father, young), but this is new territory. It's a different kind of forever: knowing the last phase of our ever-changing relationship was such a bitter one.

[Lucky Jim]

Hello again, steelwork, No, I didn't mean to suggest that the death of your brother is a "pretense" for reaching out to your Ex, and am sorry if you took it that way.  What I meant is that sometimes feelings have deeper origins than might be apparent on the surface.  Certainly the loss of a family member is an emotional shock which I wouldn't pretend to minimize.

Whether you decide to reach out, of course, is your call.  Just be prepared that, if you decide to do it, the response might be other than what you might hope for.  In other words, sometimes it can cause more pain.  Forewarned is forearmed!

LJ