Contradiction between the local DV world and the BPDFamily world

[Depression = 72% of members]

Oh good, that's good that she gets to hear a neutral voice explain to her why these behaviors are unacceptable and to let her say what she thinks about all that is going on.

[pearlsw]

Oh good, that's good that she gets to hear a neutral voice explain to her why these behaviors are unacceptable and to let her say what she thinks about all that is going on.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[wendydarling]

Interested to hear what others say. I think I would also write it down for D12 and answer the questions she will surely have?

Where is mom?
Is she ever coming back?
When is she coming back?
When can we see her?
Are you getting a divorce?
Why did you do this to us?

What has mom done wrong?

Perhaps not voiced though maybe felt by your girls RC, you can respond to, validate their feelings:
I want you to make everything be alright, right now.
I'm distressed and fearful, I need you to provide me comfort, I need to understand what's happening and why.
I feel alone, I'm scared and need a great big hug and assurance.
I feel unloved, I don't count. I'm lost in your worlds.
I'm too scared to ask any questions. I'm keeping this hurt in me.
I'm watching you and depending on you.

WDx

[DaddyBear77]

RC, sending supportive thoughts your way tonight - it’s going to be rough.

My only comment is something that jumped out at me

I'd like her not to be thinking that I'm being inappropriate,

Remember you can’t control what anyone else thinks. I would suggest keeping it in terms of addressing HER feelings and responding warmly, compassionately, and honestly. If you do this right, you’ll have the best chance of being seen positively but that’s never assured.

Wishing you strength and support tonight 

[Meili]

As a pragmatic matter (and believe me, I know that when emotions are high, being practical isn't your first thought), I would like to echo what Skip said about the bank accounts.

If you can, move half of the accounts to a separate account that she does not have access to. It protects it and does not deprive her of any community property interest that she may have.

I too am send positive thoughts your way and hoping that all is going as well as can be expected.

[flourdust]

I suggest mentally preparing for D12 blowing up at you. That's the hardest stuff to handle. The same tools that we recommend here for handling BPD emotions are applicable.

If she blames you, is angry, melts down, cries, etc. -- let her feel her feelings. Validate, don't downplay. Don't JADE why you are doing this or to defend yourself against accusations. (Answer questions, and if she makes false accusations ("You've always hated mom!", you can say that they aren't true, but don't get into a debate.) Defer big questions (that you can't answer) truthfully but simply - mom and I are going to meet with a judge, and the judge will help us decide what's going to happen, etc.

She may want to talk to or see her mom immediately. She may want you (or her older sibling) to take her to her mom and get away from you.

Mostly -- let her feel what she feels. Sympathize, but don't try to console her out of her feelings. Be clear and simple in your message, and don't get into a debate about your marriage with her. Be ready to not have big reactions to her big reactions!

[Skip]

Good advice.

[Radcliff]

Got it, flourdust, thank you, I'm grateful for the advice.  It rings true to me, and I can do that.

I just talked to the process server.  He is going to try to serve the RO in about an hour.  I talked with her last night and this morning, looking for a way to call things off, but could not get us there.

I tried to write a little bit about my feelings about this here, but words fail me now.

RC

[Radcliff]

RO served.  I was feeling tortured, now strangely OK (probably in shock) and I'm sure my emotions will continue cycling.  I was there when she was served.  I poured on as much empathy as I could in the 5 minutes we had, telling her that I didn't want to get divorced, was fighting for my family, would get her anything she needed from the house, etc. but I did not make apologies for the RO.  She wanted me to undo it and wanted to see the batterer/victim therapist this afternoon; I told her that wasn't possible.  There was love and no vitriol.  Well, at least love on my part, for her it might have been love, or maybe just shock and desperation.  I did not send an ounce of negativity her way.  She said she does not have a family lawyer, which is kind of silly given all the threats she has made.  I wish she had one lined up to support her, but she will have to figure that out.

I have a long "to-do" list, so I'd better get started... .

RC

[Skip]

I tried to write a little bit about my feelings about this here, but words fail me now.

RC

You need to put the sadness aside right now... .this is about strength and you will need everything you can to muster it. There will be time to reflect in next week. Right now you are headed into the storm.

Do you have a draft for the brother? Daughter?

[heartandwhole]

Radcliff, I’m really sorry that it has come to this.   This is a lot to handle, and I admire your willingness to fight the good fight for yourself and your family. You are getting great advice— keep us posted. No matter how this plays out, I believe you are doing the best thing for your family. That takes a lot of courage.

heart

[Skip]

I was there when she was served.  I poured on as much empathy as I could in the 5 minutes we had, telling her that I didn't want to get divorced, was fighting for my family, would get her anything she needed from the house, etc. but I did not make apologies for the RO. 

Strong. Benevolent. Perfect.

[Harley Quinn]

      To you and your daughters.  Stay strong and focused RC.  You're doing awesome.  Well done on taking this by the nuts.  Wishing you every success in helping the girls through this.  You've had great advice on things to consider and ways to handle the emotional eruption from D12.  Only thing for me to add is the natural inclination for younger children to believe that they have played a part and may be responsible.  In the case of your daughter, she knows that she has been made involved by mum and may feel guilt over her involvement when she understands more (once she gets past the hysterics).  Just bear that in mind and if you sense in time that she is feeling down it would be prudent to assure her that none of this is her fault.

Hoping that this signifies the turning point for your wife and that you are able to achieve your ideal goal RC.  Think good things.

Love and light x

[DaddyBear77]

I can’t imagine how intense this must be right now RC. Although not at all the same, I took a drastic action many years ago where my wife had to be taken away by police to a hospital overnight. Afterwards my wife  immediately took her therapy seriously, she never let herself get as low again, and I never had to call anyone in again. This was over 10 years ago.

I hope that this situation has a really positive outcome for you and that everything you’ve been through ends up bringing your family closer to the healthy system you both deserve. If nothing else, hopefully you’re proving to yourself what we all already see, that you are an incredibly brave and strong person.

[Radcliff]

Thank you all for the kind thoughts, wisdom, and support.

HQ, does "by the nuts" mean the same thing back there as it does over here?

A surprising and positive development has occurred. I just got a call from my buddy.  We don't spend a lot of time together outside of kid activities, but we've coached soccer together for 10 years, have the same soccer cleats, drive the same car, have three daughters the same ages in the same schools, and are both ex military officers.  My wife is with his wife, who told him to give me a call.  I never reached out to him before because I didn't want to burn the friendship in my wife's eyes, and my buddy's wife is a bit of a chatty Kathy and my wife's frenemy (nothing serious, just style differences and some upsets over the years with managing daughters and social things).  But my buddy's wife decorated our deck to create an oasis for my wife when she had cancer, and my buddy is the one I called at 3am when I had to rush my wife to the hospital in the middle of cancer.  My wife is super private, so I'm really surprised she contacted them, but am really happy about it, and grateful my wife is not alone in a hotel room or driving around.

I basically told my buddy the whole scoop.  This is real, this is long term, I have a bunch of qualified support and intend to do this right (i.e. I'm not going off half-cocked), I want to preserve the family, and I don't want any unnecessary hurt to fall on my wife.  He said he was surprised and never expected this, but hoped he'd deal with the situation similarly if it ever happened to him.

He asked how they could help.  I said emotional support for my wife, helping me get anything from the house that my wife needs, perhaps a place to stay if my wife is OK with that, and facilitating visits with D12 (perhaps activities with the two wives and two D12's).  That last part is awesome, since I was worried about how to keep D12 and my wife connected in a way that follows the RO.  I also told him how happy I was with my lawyer's preserve-the-family-if-possible approach, and said my wife needs a lawyer (hoping perhaps they might give her support as she finds one, and hopefully one that is similarly minded to mine).

The accountability partners have arrived

In other news, I had the conversation with D17.  I said that Mum was with her friend and would be staying a way for a while, but that D17 could see her whenever she wanted.  I said it had to do with some of the things Mum had been doing, and that there's been other things D17 hadn't seen.  D17 said, "Whatever, I don't care about your s**t, I'm out of here in a few months anyway" and she'd drive herself to her own dentist appointment this afternoon.  Totally on plan with that one -- it went as suspected   We're pretty similar, so if I keep her fed, support her, and connect with her in the few minutes a day when she's open to that, I think we'll be as good as could be given the circumstances.

Now I gotta figure out carpool for D12.

RC

[Harley Quinn]

HQ, does "by the nuts" mean the same thing back there as it does over here? wink

I'd imagine so 

Great news on the friends being supportive RC!  Fantastic that they asked how they can help and are willing to be involved in this.  Also that things were as expected with D17.  Good luck with D12.  Let us know how things go.

Thinking of you. 

Love and light x

[Skip]

Despite all the talking and planning, this is the first of the sunlight. More is needed, but the process has started.

Please don't forget the brother - if you don't announce early, she is going to beat you to it again, control the narritive and unite the family against you.

Don't get beat out a second time.

[Radcliff]

Skip good reminder about the brother, thanks.  I hadn't forgotten, though had gotten a little behind the power curve and then got lucky.  With the change in plan to serve the RO more quickly, I needed to rewrite the brother e-mail and run it by my lawyer, and hadn't been able to do that (free time went into hail Mary discussions with my wife).  I was going to do that at lunch time today, but decided to call my brother-in-law to get ahead of things.  He didn't answer, but called back quickly.  Turns out he thought it was my wife calling, so he was a little surprised to talk to me.  He said he had wanted to avoid unhealthy triangulation.  We kept talking, and I gave him the same scoop I gave my buddy -- long issue, serious misbehavior, coordinated plan, expert help, save the marriage, help her find a pro-marriage lawyer.  He said he really appreciated hearing my perspective that I was aiming to preserve the family.  I do expect him to be batting for his sister, but my feeling from knowing him is that he naturally steers to the center of the drama triangle.  I don't think the conversation could have gone better.

I had a short conversation with D12 between soccer and gymnastics, and said that Mum would be staying at our friends' for a bit.  She asked why, and I said she might have noticed some things, and Mum was getting some space.  Her nonverbal cues and a couple of words basically said, "That sounds like a good idea for you silly grownups."  It did not seem threatening to her.  That was all I wanted to load on her in a short car ride.  She gets out of gym at 9pm, after which I'll talk to her mostly about what she needs for lunch tomorrow and then maybe add in some more details.  The most relevant is that Mum will be away from the house and if she wants to see her we can certainly do that, but will need to arrange it.

I'm curious on opinions of how much to tell D12.  My mom was thinking that it might be a little too much to tell her that a judge is involved.  Her advice was that the key to age appropriate discussions was to answer what the child asks, and if they don't ask about it, it means they are not ready.  My tendency is towards transparency and sometimes oversharing.  At some point, she needs to understand that Mum's behavior was inappropriate, but it doesn't have to be tonight or tomorrow.  My thought for tonight is to mention the bit about setting up visits with Mum, relatively nonchalantly, and say if she has any questions about all this stuff I'll answer anything she asks.  Then I'll have to figure out how much more detail to discuss over the weekend.  Thoughts? (I am also going to reread everyone's previous advice for a refresher now.)

Speaking of my mother -- I called her to discuss the trip.  I have been totally up front with my dad about what's going on, but have not told my mother anything about DV, just a little about BPD drama without naming it.  I was hesitant to unload on a sick mom, but I figured if I was going to ditch the trip, I owed it to her to come clean, so I gave her the scoop and got into an hour long discussion with her in which she was wise and understanding.  She said that she'd been worried about my wife's behaviors for a long while.  She said there's no freakin' way I'm going on the trip; it was nice to have her support.  I should talk to her like that more often.

<b>:)B, I was thinking of you as I talked to my mom.  There are all sorts of reasons why my mom is an annoying mother-in-law to my wife, and is an out-of-touch person at times who clumsily says hurtful things.  The most crystalline example is when my mom told my wife that her new baby "still looks a little beat up from the delivery."  (Really, mom, you just said that out loud?)  She is also often unconsciously self-centered.  She let me down when I was a teenager, and only half finished raising me (though I think many women will say that all men never really got finished being raised   My wife is quite vocal about this with me, and is correct about much if not all of it.  But she is still my mom, and has the wisdom of her years, knows me well, and is completely invested in my success.  I've really not done a great job of staying in touch with her as much as I should, and we now have the ticking clock counting down towards the end of life that <b>:)B you wisely point out that you want to get out ahead of to enjoy your parents' healthy years.  So, go for it <b>:)B, and make sure they get enough GD4 and son time.

RC

[flourdust]

A few more thoughts on talking to D12, since you asked... .

She may well ask about divorce. (She probably knows a lot of kids from divorced homes.) It's good to ask her about her feelings about divorce if it comes up, and to let her express her fears or concerns.

You may want to let her know that what is happening in your family isn't a dirty little secret - she can talk to friends, teachers, counselors, etc. You might even encourage that if there are people she can confide in. She does not need to be ashamed.

Parents often feel that kids need to be reassured of stuff like "mommy and daddy both love you." They usually have more pragmatic concerns, some of which might seem kind of silly to adults. Where will I live? Will I have to carry my clothes and toothbrush with me to school if I'm staying at mom's that night? Who is going to drive me to the dance? They might assume that anything done by the absent parent is simply going to stop getting done, or that they'll have to fend for themselves.

[DaddyBear77]

RC - thank you. Yes my parental situation is a huge mess, and the tension may very well blow up into something really ugly. You’re a true role model on how to step up and just face those ugly situations before it’s too late. Thank you.

In regards to D12 and communicating the message “what mommy did was inappropriate” - I am wondering, is that something we (dads) should be saying? It feels a little bit like we’re telling our kids what THEY should think. I’m wondering, would it be better to let them know that WE think what happened was inappropriate and then let them tell us what they think? That might start a very good conversation and become a real teachable moment.

I’m not sure I’ve got that right, though.

EDIT: as I thought about it I’m wondering maybe our kids shouldn’t even be involved in a conversation about what’s appropriate in our marriage. Maybe generally speaking we can communicate that we didn’t feel what happened was appropriate for us and leave it at that?

[Radcliff]

flourdust, thanks for the additional advice, that helps!

DB, thanks for thinking that through.  I like the idea of asking her what she thinks.  I think at some point she need to know that DV was happening and is unacceptable.  Perhaps it needs to only be restricted to discussions of things she has observed.  As I review my journals, I'm seeing that she has witnessed more DV than I remembered, and I'm just starting the book, "When Daddy Hurts Mommy," by Lundy Bancroft, who says that the kids are likely to be witnessing more than the parents realize.

Bottom line, I think managing their pragmatic concerns and keeping their needs met as was just suggested, and facilitating healthy access to both parents is the name of the game immediately.  The other stuff is longer term, and there's time to sort that out with professional guidance.  I'm following up on a couple of therapist leads now.

Today was an interesting day.  On the one hand, I really miss my wife.  She is my other half.  On the other hand, it was nice to have peace and freedom to parent without being criticized.  I realize with her gone that having been told how incompetent I am so many times by her, she didn't even need to say it any more, she just had to be in the house for me to feel it.  I'm starting from a pretty low level of functioning at this point.  It was nice to be able to eat breakfast with D12 and carefully put together a simple lunch for her.  The fact that I'm able to feel reassured by my ability to assemble a simple three item lunch pretty much demonstrates where I'm at.  There's no place to go but up!

RC

[Radcliff]

I just talked to my buddy's wife face-to-face for four hours.  Wow, this couple is amazing.  In less than a day, she got my wife to reveal her unaddressed traumas from her FOO that I thought my wife would never tell another living soul about.  The buddy's wife is talking about driving for a diagnosis for my wife.  I mentioned my wife's decades-long stance against therapy, and my buddy's wife said she'd drive her to every therapy appointment if she had to.  My wife had shown her the entire RO packet, including the declaration that had extensive detail on the DV.  Before she came to see me, my wife said to her to please be careful not to minimize the DV that I'd been through.  This was interesting, since it means that while my wife didn't appear to hear me when I was saying it, now that she has a lot at stake she remembers it and thinks it is important.

The buddy's wife had several ideas for a more collaborative approach to things (including something called a "non-CLETS restraining order" that I need to research) which could be good if it results in my wife getting more appropriate therapy.  I was clear with her that any solution had to look good through the DV victim lens (accountability, education on controlling behaviors, acknowledgement of damage done, etc.), and we also agreed that any solution had to involve a peaceful, safe, respectful home.  We also discussed various ways to connect my wife with the children, and to get clothes etc. to my wife.  This woman has known D12 since she was an infant, and our daughters have played soccer together since kindergarten.  She is heavily invested in our success.  We agreed that D12 is everyone's highest priority (including, I made clear, the inappropriate behaviors of my wife in front of D12, but also reconnecting D12 to my wife ASAP in a safe way).  D12 is going to go over to dinner at our friends' house where my wife is staying tomorrow.  Odds on success are still long, but it was a good evening.

RC

[Skip]

"non-CLETS restraining order"

It means that the restraining order is not in the police database and you have no protection by law enforcement. If she violated the RO, your only recourse is to take her to court and ask for a CLETS restraining order.

So with a non-CLETS order, if she goes berserk, and you call the police, it's no different than if you had no order at all. You forego criminal protection.

Be very careful with this. Usually something like this happens later in the game when she has made some progress.

Before she came to see me, my wife said to her to please be careful not to minimize the DV that I'd been through.  This was interesting... .

It's not, really. What is more interesting is your belief that she didn't hear it and that you had to have the conversation 100 times.  She heard it the first time... .certainly the third.

When she realized that you were dependent on her acknowledging it, she knew not to acknowledge it.

It's learned behavior.

[Radcliff]

So with a non-CLETS order, if she goes berserk, and you call the police, it's no different than if you had no order at all. You forego criminal protection.

Be very careful with this. Usually something like this happens later in the game when she has made some progress.

Skip, thanks for the quick lesson, that helps.  I also appreciate the context that it is also something that happens later in the game.  The narrative from my buddy's wife is that they were shocked at the harshness of the RO, and after talking with a close friend who's a divorce attorney, are wondering if there's a less frightening way.  I understand this sentiment, but also understand that the only reason we're dealing here is because the RO was harsh and my wife is incented to get her family back.  Interestingly, when I met with the assistant DA at the Family Justice Center she said that the strongest motivator for women offenders was to keep the family together.  (Another interesting thing is that my wife is telling her friend that she never wanted a divorce, despite the fact that she was regularly threatening me with it.  I can understand the duality here, but also understand that my wife has to be accountable for her actions/words).

I will step carefully.  I want to explore all possible options/tools but also feel I have a solid idea of what I need to be safe for D12 and I, and I will not yield on that.  (I am assuming that any situation that works for D12 and me will also work for D17).

It's not, really. What is more interesting is your belief that she didn't hear it and that you had to have the conversation 100 times.  She heard it the first time... .certainly the third.

When she realized that you were dependent on her acknowledging it, she knew not to acknowledge it.

It's learned behavior.

Yup.  I suppose I'm simple-minded, but I'm confused by the fact that when I say I need something she does the opposite!

RC

[Harley Quinn]

Two words RC.  Power and control.   Glad you are seeing some progress with your friends' involvement.  Stick to your guns.  You're doing great. 

Love and light x

[Radcliff]

HQ, thanks for the encouragement and wisdom.  Yup, I suppose it's all about power and control.  Obviously, that's the main deal, but even with that knowledge it's surprising and depressing how that one theme is infused through the whole history and present state of the relationship.  I could give her a half hour back rub, then say, "Hey, do you think you could give me one?" and she won't do it because she feels like I'm trying to control her.  Any time I have a need, she feels I'm trying to control her.  Any discussion about balancing our needs or compromising is a zero sum game for her, where only one of us can win.  Well, the issue of power and control has everyone's attention now.  We'll see if with 3-4 therapists and a couple of lawyers on the payroll, plus friends and family, we can make some progress!

RC

[pearlsw]

So sorry to be out of pocket on this end! Been thinking of you and your family and hoping this time isn't too scary as you step into this new phase.   Never forget, there are always steps back as you are trying to push forward.   It is nice that the other couple wants to help - just be sure the wife of the pair respects your position on things and doesn't push to take over too much. Don't let her take over the dynamic - you are the emotional leader here. While others may toss in good ideas here and there trust that you are the one with the wise clear vision of what the family can ultimately be. This is a good time to work on your own self-esteem and self-care. Be sure to run now and again, and give yourself time to relax and enjoy time with your own friends away from these issues when possible. I know these shocks to the system mess with my heart and are causing me extra stress that is having physical consequences. It feels like good years are being taken off of the 'ol ticker. I know you get chest pains too, so just a reminder to take care of your ticker!     Any openings on the job front? Glad your mom understood! Funny how much support people provide if we just let them in! (I'm learning this lesson myself.) Take care!

[Radcliff]

Hey Pearl, thanks for the reply!  No worries, I know you've got your hands full as well!  I am concerned about my wife and kids and the difficulty of the road ahead, but only a tiny fraction as anxious as I was in the final days when my wife was in the house, as I was working with the lawyer to draft the RO request, my wife was gaslighting heavily, and I felt trapped and exposed.  The plan is moving forward and the support team is forming, so that feels good.  I have a therapist appointment for Wednesday afternoon to discuss help for me and D12.  Thanks for the caution on my buddy's wife -- wise words.  That's one of the main reasons I met with her last night -- to gauge her position and to make sure she knew my determination and that she appreciated the gravity of the DV.  It was a good meeting, but I expect to have to "refresh" that every so often.  The situation is a little uncomfortable because she is upset by the harshness of the RO and sees the emotional impact on my wife, but I am hoping she and I can stay 80% aligned as allies, united by our shared concern for my wife and children.  My buddy is traveling, so I've not yet had a chance to have a long conversation with him.  When I'm able to talk to him, that will be a help.

Oh, another update -- my buddy's wife hosted D12 for dinner tonight with my wife, and D12 stayed over there for 3 1/2 hours.  Both my buddy and his wife have read the pamphlet from the county and signed the agreement to be "nonprofessional visit supervisors" so it's all squared away with officialdom.  Everyone was very happy about the visit, and I'm glad it was able to happen.  We've arranged for a second dinner tomorrow night as well.

Thanks for the reminder on running.  No excuse not to go running tomorrow!

I'm not looking for a job at the moment.  I have been preparing for the current job to potentially end for a year, and have been saving up, so can afford to take a few months off and concentrate on family.  Which is a huge blessing.  I am in absolutely no shape to look for or start a new job.  My job right now is taking care of myself and my family and getting us to a good place.  I may also therapeutically catch up on home organization and repairs   If it seems like a good idea to start earning some money before the family is in a good place, I have a couple of consulting and possibly teaching opportunities that could let me work part time.  Honestly, I think the road to recovery is going to be a long one, so part-time work seems like a good plan for a while.  Full time work in my line of work in this region can very easily become all-consuming, so I'm not anxious to get back to that, and may actually engineer a shift to a different path, such as teaching. I am starting some volunteering to coach a team in a project course at the university up the street to get me out of the house and network a bit. Right now, it's literally one day at a time!

RC

[Harley Quinn]

RC I just want to give you the huge credit you deserve for the thought you're putting into what is good for you and the approach you're taking in your own personal endeavours.  Volunteering and networking sounds perfect at this time and I'm delighted to hear that you have considered potential alternatives to the full on grind career wise.  Healthy balance is really important and you've clearly got your head screwed on.  Good on you!   

[Skip]

My buddy is traveling, so I've not yet had a chance to have a long conversation with him.  When I'm able to talk to him, that will be a help.

Stay focused on him. You want him to be your advocate, her to be your wives advocate, and their relationship to mediate the difference between before approaching you.

If you both go to both of them, it will become negative triangulation.

Her position that its harsh is reasonable. Your wife needs someone to console her. If she (your buddies wife) brings that matter to you and you don't yield, she will start to triangulate - its natural.

If she took that same statement to husband, he might have said, "yes, but lets not cloud the issues with that, the DV should be the focus" - "OK dear, I see your point, lets tackle that later."

See what I mean?

You have a lot of advocates in this. I said you would. But don't take that to mean everyone will be your advocate. They won't and if you pursue this as "right vs wrong", you will lose advocates. You buddy will know better than anyone, when you get out over your skis and he can tamp you down a bit.

Remember Gault. He had to lead by changing himself. He took a strong position with his wife. He took a strong position with himself... .looking and finding out how he was making matters worse in his marriage. His wife was the problem and his reaction to her was a problem. You have some of that going on too.

[Radcliff]

Skip, thanks for the feedback.  Yes, I see exactly what you're describing.  My buddy is aware of it, and knowing both him and his wife well, I know how he can play this moderating role.  The catch is that he's working two jobs, and travels for both, so he'll be gone until Thursday and is exhausted.  In the meanwhile, after mulling over the conversation with his wife, I came to the same conclusion that you did -- I shouldn't be looking to talk to her about anything other than straight kid logistics, and her role is to empathize with my wife.  If I push against that, it will damage things.  So I'll just hold steady until my buddy gets back and gets some rest.

W.r.t. work I need to do on my part, I'm going to need to put that on my therapist's goal list when I meet with her on Wednesday.  It feels like it will be a while before anything comes from my wife's side that is appropriate and I'm ready to hear.  Eventually my buddy could help here.  Right now, my mind is preoccupied with how my wife and her lawyers will respond, and if we'll see minimization of the DV, or acceptance and commitment to change.

Can you help me a little with Gault?  I read his success story summaries, as well as the raw threads I found, but somewhere around the December/January time frame, all of a sudden they have this new therapist that helps them, but they're on their 6th visit.  I think I missed some key posts, so the part about Gault's introspection is something I don't think I read about.  Any pointers/links?

Here's the update I drafted before reading Skip's reply.  It's pretty long -- it helped me to write it, and I wanted to share an update, but things are steady so if you're pressed for time don't feel compelled to read!

Things are progressing here.  My wife has a lawyer who has reached out to mine, but no substantive talks yet.  My lawyer knows my wife's, and respects her, so that's a good start.  My lawyer feels we are in good shape.  I looked up non-CLETS ROs online, and she and I agreed it is too early for that, as Skip had also suggested.  I met for the first time with an experienced DV therapist today who seems like a keeper, so that's quite a relief to get that support in place.  She is going to work on connecting me to someone for D12 so I can get her started before our court date.

I gave a copy of the restraining order to D12's school today, and talked to her principal.  I had very mixed feelings about doing it, and tried to rationalize my way out of it, but since they have a custodial responsibility, I have full custody for the moment, my lawyer told me to do it, and I want them to be watching out for her even if they don't say anything to her, it seemed unavoidable.  The conversation with the principal went well, and her plan for communicating with staff and teachers only the level of detail they needed seemed good to me.  D12's advisor is also her soccer coach, and her guidance counselor is an MFT, so there's a strong support network there.

I'm still working at a fraction of normal capacity.  I lied down and rested for a couple of hours this afternoon.  The rest of the time, I'm trying to concentrate on the most important tasks, and not worry about the other stuff, giving myself permission to do things slowly and take breaks.  I'm trying to look at this like a physical injury where you have to slow down a bit in the beginning to heal faster, but I'm looking forward to getting back in the game more.

I am enjoying the simplicity and focus of taking care of D12.  Cooking dinner for her, eating with her, and cleaning up with her were quite nice tonight.  She is a thoughtful, interesting kid, and when we're 1:1, our relationship is comfortable and easygoing with good conversations about school, sports, etc.  A few weeks back, she was asking me about N. Korea on a long car ride together, and we got to talking about the Strategic Defense Initiative, the cold war and fall of the Berlin wall and USSR, and every U.S. president back to Ronald Reagan!  She kept asking questions, so we kept going.

I'm noticing that I almost have a "criticism clock" beating a rhythm inside me so that I know when I'm doing something (like cooking) that I normally can't do without being criticized, or when it's been a long enough period of time without being told I'm doing something wrong that I feel like another dose is due.  But there's silence.  That silence makes me realize how pervasive the lack of respect was in my life and our home, and how far we have to go to heal if we can do that.  I miss my wife and worry about her, but know that she needs to sort herself out.  I felt an emotional urge to reach out to her and comfort her tonight, but realized how huge and impossible the task has been to be her emotional caretaker.  To be free of that burden for now is liberating but a little disorienting.

Tomorrow, I'm headed to the first meeting with the project team I'm coaching at the university.  I got a look at the project assignment, and they've only got about two and a half weeks to do a crazy amount of mechanical and electrical design and fabrication, coding, and testing.  I can see the road ahead of them clearly, and it reminded me that I know stuff and can be useful.  It also brought back memories of how little I slept when I took that class many years ago!

That's all for now. 

Thank you all!

RC