Separate sleeping arrangements

[snowglobe]

I’ve been at the cross roads lately, my uBPDh went back to escaping nightly to the downstairs couch. He says that he can’t sleep with me anymore, he hates it and in need of purchasing a bed for himself so he can finally sleep. Things been shaky lately, his business is going through major transition time, hopefully positive in a long run. In the past, whenever he would say that he hates sleeping next to me and wants to leave I was overwhelmed with rejection. Always asking; what did I do, I’m sorry if I hurt you, how Can I make it better? I would follow him to where ever he would go to retreat and beg him to come back. Talk about total control on his part and codependency on mine. He would proceed to berate me and tell me he thinks we are different people, I don’t entice him sexually and he wants out of marriage. After some time I became completely defeated, and stopped following after him. He would spend weeks at time sleeping like a total bum with sheets wrinkled and on the floor mattress alone. After close to month of disregulating he would get high and confess that he needs me to go get him, and try to make him feel better, only to reject me in return. It painted a vivid picture of a quest for control and manipulation. So I stopped going after him, which made his leaving behaviour susbside. We didn’t have it close to a year. Upon his turbulent business affairs he’s been videoplaying and leaving our family bed. We are back to the same cycle, I’ve been going after him and the cycle repeats.
Now the question, do any of you not BPD ever dealt with similar behaviour and What does it stem out of? Thank you for reading

[Dragon72]

I think people with BPD just can't deal with prolonged intimacy and need their distance.

This is particularly acute in the devaluation stage of the lovebomb-devaluation-discard cycle if you buy into that whole concept. Which I personally do.

My uBPDw has only had a few nights in my bed since the birth of our son 4 years ago.  Hell, she has hardly even spent any time just "hanging out" with me in those four years.

Before our son's birth, we used to share a bed, we used to have sex twice a week (not twice a year like now) and we used to chat and go for walks and watch tv together and enjoy each other's company.  None of that happens any more since "something" triggered her abandonment fears.

Now she's a bossy, moody, ubersensitive, hyperjealous avoider who is unable to be affectionate.  It's really sad.

[snowglobe]

I think people with BPD just can't deal with prolonged intimacy and need their distance.

This is particularly acute in the devaluation stage of the lovebomb-devaluation-discard cycle if you buy into that whole concept. Which I personally do.

My uBPDw has only had a few nights in my bed since the birth of our son 4 years ago.  Hell, she has hardly even spent any time just "hanging out" with me in those four years.

Before our son's birth, we used to share a bed, we used to have sex twice a week (not twice a year like now) and we used to chat and go for walks and watch tv together and enjoy each other's company.  None of that happens any more since "something" triggered her abandonment fears.

Now she's a bossy, moody, ubersensitive, hyperjealous avoider who is unable to be affectionate.  It's really sad.

Dear @Dragon72, I’m sorry you and I are sharing similar experiences. It’s a catch 22, if you follow them, you are needy and annoying, and demand to be rejected and demeaned, if you don’t follow them you are cold, insensitive and don’t care about the relationships therefore you are asking to be broken up with. This feeling of hurt and rejection most people experience only once in a relationships right before the break up. We are truly soldiers on this path of love and intimacy

[formflier]

I'm positive... .99.9% positive that you should NOT follow.  

You take care of your sleep hygiene and get a good nights sleep.

Encourage him to do the same... .express trust and confidence in his ability to do so.  

He will sleep where he sleeps.  

After a few weeks of not "chasing"... .it would likely be wise to invite him to spend time with you in bed before you go to sleep.  Assure him that he is free to sleep where he "needs"... but that you desire some closeness before bed... .

For now... .focus on changing the dynamic... .no chasing.

Spot on analysis about intimacy over time.  It's tough for them.  Best be is to let them self regulate... .with "gentle" encouragement from you.  "Gentle" equals no chasing... .  "It would mean a lot to me if you could snuggle with me for 10 minutes before I drift off to sleep"

Thoughts?

FF

[Red5]

Dear @Dragon72, I’m sorry you and I are sharing similar experiences. It’s a catch 22, if you follow them, you are needy and annoying, and demand to be rejected and demeaned, if you don’t follow them you are cold, insensitive and don’t care about the relationships therefore you are asking to be broken up with. This feeling of hurt and rejection most people experience only once in a relationships right before the break up. We are truly soldiers on this path of love and intimacy

Snowglobe & Dragon72… I can concur with both your experiences, I as I am day six of the tried and true silent treatment, however, this time round, I am the one in the big bed, and my u/BPD wife has taken over the leather couch in the office, matter of fact, we have not even spoken to each other since last Wednesday evening, there was a time when I would follow, and try to “fix” things, but I do not do that anymore, things have gone on for a long time now this way, recycling back and forth, push pull, “I think I will keep you she says”… “you can’t get rid of me she says”… even, “I can’t imagine life without you” she would say… to “I can’t live this way anymore”, “it’s about your kids and no one else”… I have given up any hope of “JADE”, as this obviously never works… I just stand back, listen, and wait for the next phase of the devaluation to take place… completely gone is any fear she will leave, or that she will deny affection (r/s security), as any desire for her I may have had, is now gone, one thing is for sure, when I get home from work, and she goes into the office, and shuts that door, that is a sure sign that she indeed does not wish to be followed, talked to, reasoned with, or else any attempt at any reconciliation… the door is closed!… I am getting a gut feeling that she is well into the devaluation stages, and may be headed onward to the discard (?)… It has been ten years (r/s), and almost seven married… as we were both married before, 20+ years each… I asked myself the other day, are you happy self, (answer no), How many times have you been in this “que” (answers is too many times now to remember), then I heard my inner thought self say,”life is short, too bad for you that you will always be unhappy if she is in your constant sphere of responsibility”… I am right, this will not ever get any better, she is fifty now, she is not likely to ever change, and I guess neither will I.

@formflier is right, “You take care of your sleep hygiene and get a good night’s sleep.”… “He (she) will sleep where he (she) sleeps.”…

Life must go on, I will use the analogy of a ship at sea, the “watches” must always be manned, and awake, and alert, ships propulsion, navigation, and all manners pertaining to the ships operation, and the crews well-being, and everyday routine must be kept operational, and in good working order… So no mopping around, get your rest, eat, watch the news, take care of your kid, go to work, do the dishes, cook supper, do the laundry, pick up your gear and “soldier on”, pay your bills, brush your teeth, make your bed in the morning, check the weather report… Don’t let the dysfunction of the pw/BPD rule the home in a manner of chaos & disconnect… Someone wrote on another post here the other day, that he actually (may have) tried to learn how to instigate the “silent treatment”… just in order to get some peace, take care & v/r Red5

[snowglobe]

After a few weeks of not "chasing"... .it would likely be wise to invite him to spend time with you in bed before you go to sleep.  Assure him that he is free to sleep where he "needs"... but that you desire some closeness before bed... .

For now... .focus on changing the dynamic... .no chasing.

Spot on analysis about intimacy over time.  It's tough for them.  "It would mean a lot to me if you could snuggle with me for 10 minutes before I drift off to sleep"

Thoughts?
FF

Dear @Formflier,
These words struck me so much so that I took me some time to really process the reason why I was reacting to it. So here we go:
I am not allowed to have any desires whatsoever in these relationships. When I express my needs, wants or desires  there are only 3 possible outcomes; 1. He will tell me “take care of myself” wether it’s fetching me a glass of water, hug, listening ear or sexual activity, 2. He goes completely manic and starts yelling at me for being selfish and needy, and finally 3. He just rejects me quietly and completely ignores me. So, for me to make any type of, even gentle, request from him is useless. I can count on my fingers the number of times he reciprocated to my desires.  There isn’t any actual emotional intimacy in these relationship, the closest we come to it, is me silently sitting next to him on the couch while he is engaged in tv watching or working on lap top, or videoplaying. The only time he touches me intimately is when he is sick and is in need of tactile stimulation and while we are “physically intimate”. I don’t know how to build up a strength to change these dynamics.

[snowglobe]

@Red5, I’m sorry that you are experiencing isolation and hurt of the silent treatment. I can also feel your frustration at your feelings towards your BPDw slipping away. Where there once was an inviting river, welcoming and hospitable, there is now a frozen lake. I’m doing my best to stay afloat, I eat sleep, take care of kids and house, rinse and repeat the next day. I even went to codependency support group. He was so pissed that I was away for 2 hours with my phone shut off, read he couldn’t track my whereabouts. Another need for control, he tracks me anytime I’m physically not with him. I am worried about going back to the support group again without making a legitimate excuse for my absense. I’ve learnt not to do certain things that make him mad, not because I’m afraid for myself, but I feel so deeply guilty that my children are silent witnesses and participants to this non stop drama. I know I can’t change him, or his coping skills. I, however can’t help but hope that there is more for me out there. But in order to get it, I must first deal with issues in order not to repeat the same scenario.

[formflier]

That sucks... .    I'm so sorry that's where your marriage is at right now.

Breathe in... .big... .exhale... .few times.  That's really where you are at.

Now... ."flip it".  Since it doesn't matter what you really say... .since he will react badly... .I hope you can find that somewhat freeing.  Say what you need to say and realize his reactions are about him and not you.

Another big inhale and exhale.  "not taking things personally" was a hug... .HUGE... .earth-shattering thing for me.  I still sometimes struggle with it.  

I was like... what do you mean I should take what my wife does personally... I'm married to her... that's about as personal as it gets... .  And... .my logic is still sound.  And there are times to "take things personally".

There are other times you need to be able to "toughen up" and not make his stuff about you.  Because... it's not about you  You know that is sound logic.  You also know... all too well... how hard it is to "blend" logic and your heart.

So... .back to you making your requests... .

Think about them... .don't save him from what you know he has trouble with.  It's "normal" for a  wife to ask to be close to her hubby... .so make your request in a healthy way.  Let him react... badly... .you react in a "healthy way"... .

Wash rinse... repeat... .let this go on for a long time and it is likely your life will look different.  Also likely this will be hard for you... . Most "good things" take hard work.

I'll hush... .

How does this sound to you?

FF

[formflier]

Please think about the following concept for a while before trying it.

I want you to start "measuring" the pushs and pulls of your relationship.

Because I want you to "cut them in half".

The goal is to help your hubby return to "neutral"... for our purposes we'll call that zero.

When he is giving you a push that you rate as a 4 (on a 1-10 scale) I want you to "push" him away with a 2.

him "I can't stand laying next to you and can't sleep and you never buy me cheerios any more... .and there is a purple elephant in our closet"

you  "I could use an relaxing night alone as well... sleep tight"

See how you "pushed him"... .but not as hard as he "pushed you". 

Same thing for "pull"

him "Oh baby... .I've been watching you all day, your the most beautiful... .I must possess you right now... ."

you "Sounds great... .possess me in 5 minutes when I get to the bedroom"

See... again... you are agreeing with him that closeness is in order... but you are "in between" him and zero.

Just wanted to give you a "preview" of what the future may look like.

FF

[snowglobe]

Another big inhale and exhale.  "not taking things personally" was a hug... .HUGE... .earth-shattering thing for me.  I still sometimes struggle with it.  


There are other times you need to be able to "toughen up" and not make his stuff about you.  Because... it's not about you  You know that is sound logic.  You also know... all too well... how hard it is to "blend" logic and your heart.

So... .back to you making your requests... .

Think about them... .don't save him from what you know he has trouble with.  It's "normal" for a  wife to ask to be close to her hubby... .so make your request in a healthy way.  Let him react... badly... .you react in a "healthy way"... .

Wash rinse... repeat... .let this go on for a long time and it is likely your life will look different.  Also likely this will be hard for you... . Most "good things" take hard work.

I'll hush... .

How does this sound to you?

FF

Dear @formflier, thank you so much for helping me to get through navigating BPD. I can only hope to be of a service to someone in the same way you’ve been supporting me in this journey.
Few points I wanted to clarify:
1. Not making the personal vs verbal abuse.
It has escalated to the point that once he is home from work, this disregulating behaviour is on a constant spectrum, from mild ignore to sarcasm and then profanity and name calling. This afternoon my live in parents say me down, and told me that they no longer can tolerate him saying out loud, like a broken record on repeat: “why don’t you go and f... .yourself, get the f... .out of my sight, can you make it so I don’t ever see you?” so the whole house including my kids and parents become the unwilling witnesses. My parents have their own theory, they believe that people get treated the way they believe they deserve to be treated. They don’t believe BPD is actual diagnosis, (old school) and that he just feels like he can do this to me. Which is partially true, only I and our kids see and experience this side of his personality. Never ever would he raise a voice or even speak disrespectfully to others. They want me to make him stop?.
Now, I know that he is ill, and I know it’s very common with intimate relationships, but I feel that I’m ready to start changing this setuation. I’m petrified that if I start putting boundaries in place he will leave me. However, the consequences of my children growing up in this “normal” scares me more. How Can I start changing this behaviour without lashing back at him, rejecting him? Can you please help me to put a plan in place to slowly change this public verbal abuse?

2. What do you mean that once I make a request for emotional intimacy, that once he reacts badly, I should react in a healthy way? What would example of it look like?
I’m an easy target, he knows it and I know it. I don’t want to provoke him for further power struggle, but I want to like the person looking back at me in the mirror. I’ve been faithful and dedicated to this person for 16 years, from the age of 17. I don’t know any different. I never had a chance to grow up and form relationships outside of my marriage. My BPD mother believed that I was her property, still does. I wasn’t aloud to date (read have sexual relationships), because it made me nasty in her eyes. I was physically disciplined for taking birth control prior to meeting my uBPDh. He was my ticket out of control, manipulation and pain. Only to be treated in very similar matter by another person. I grew up thinking that love is conditional, even by a parent. I still do, although I know I love my children unconditionally, and I tell them all the time. Even though I’m being told that I’m attractive physically and intellectually, I don’t believe it. I see an empty seat that can me easily replaced. That childhood fear of being disowned of I did something that displeased my mother never went away. It’s a continuous process... .

[snowglobe]

Please think about the following concept for a while before trying it.

I want you to start "measuring" the pushs and pulls of your relationship.

Because I want you to "cut them in half".

The goal is to help your hubby return to "neutral"... for our purposes we'll call that zero.

When he is giving you a push that you rate as a 4 (on a 1-10 scale) I want you to "push" him away with a 2.

him "I can't stand laying next to you and can't sleep and you never buy me cheerios any more... .and there is a purple elephant in our closet"

you  "I could use an relaxing night alone as well... sleep tight"

See how you "pushed him"... .but not as hard as he "pushed you". 

Same thing for "pull"

him "Oh baby... .I've been watching you all day, your the most beautiful... .I must possess you right now... ."

you "Sounds great... .possess me in 5 minutes when I get to the bedroom"

See... again... you are agreeing with him that closeness is in order... but you are "in between" him and zero.

Just wanted to give you a "preview" of what the future may look like.

FF

How do I push back from “go f... yourself”, you are ugliest person I’ve been with, I can’t stand you, talk to you, see you”?

[formflier]

How do I push back from “go f... yourself”, you are ugliest person I’ve been with, I can’t stand you, talk to you, see you”?

"I don't want to be around you either... "  as you are walking away.

See... .same message... .without the "edge"

Here is the thing though... .much of this advice is for after things have turned and are potentially getting somewhat better.

To be honest, I'm still getting a feel for your r/s... .and it seems to be in a bad spot. 

Once you start doing boundaries... .expect some improvement, then likely a lot worse (extinction burst) and a little back and forth.  Basically... you are putting up a new fence an he will be "poking at it"... .then he will "charge" the fence to see if he can break through.

It is critical "the fence" holds, whenever you put it up.  It will be much worse if somedays "the gate" is open and other days "it's closed".

That he is doing this regularly... .in front of the entire household... .is bad.  No way around saying that... .I believe you understand that.  YOU are the one to take action, because YOU are in charge of the environment that YOU live in.

Understand... .he may leave you.  At which point your environment improves.  Or he may improve... .at which point your environment improves.

Do you see the constant here?

OK... .last (for now).  The question about healthy response. 

you "hey... .can you snuggle with me for 10 minutes before I got to sleep?"

him "I'd rather play my video game, you aren't worth my time"

you "You're word are hurtful to me. I'm sad to hear them."  State your truth... but don't hit back.

FF

[walkinthepark247]

For the first time in my marriage, I left the marital bed last night. My wife was just a big ball of anxious, negative energy. As I said in a recent post, she is fixated on divorce again. But, it's always "are you divorcing me?". I really need to focus on my own health now. The doctor recently told me that I have high blood pressure. I am certain that a big part of it stems from this marriage. I need to take care of my health. Even if someone is giving you the silent treatment, you can still sense the negative, angry aura about them. As I was telling my counselor, it's like the hurt and sadness seeps out of their pores. That might sound melodramatic, but you can feel it in the air. Emotional Pollution.

[formflier]

 
How did you handle the question?  There are better and worse ways...

Sorry you had to leave the marital bed...    

FF