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Author Topic: Adult BPD daughter - looking for advice after recent regression  (Read 943 times)
FaithfulHope
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« on: November 16, 2017, 12:21:52 PM »

Hi there, It has been a long time since I have been on this site, but after a couple years of stability, my adult daughter, 25, has significantly regressed and I have some questions that I need advice on.   She was diagnosed a couple months shy of 18 after years of crisis.   She has been in constant counseling since age 14.   Her behavior was off the charts from age 17-21.   After that she seemed to be able to live within some basic boundaries and moved back home and worked part time, went to Cosmetology school, and even met a nice young man and dated him for almost two years.  Her behavior wasn't always stellar, but we managed and last fall she graduated from Cosmetology, passed her State Boards and started working at a salon.  At the end of the December she moved into an apartment with her boyfriend.  She was doing SO well that I had even let myself think she had been misdiagnosed.   But... .she lasted just 4 months living with her bf.  She just couldn't handle the responsibility of budgeting her money, chores around the apartment, and holding down a job.   After just 4 months she moved back home... .with a cat.   Since then she has been out of control... .lots of drinking, left a 3rd salon on bad terms (just stops showing up), is back working at Wendys (that is always her fall back job whenever she bails on other jobs), not paying bills, out all night... .on and on.    

I have been doing some research and found that having BPD could qualify her for Disability.  I haven't told her this as I think she would quit and never work another day in her life.   But it comforts me to know that when I am gone she could get assistance.  

So, here are my questions... .

1.  Car - she is on about her 5th car since she started driving.   Some she totaled but others she lost due to not being responsible with money.  I think we are headed in that direction now.  My husband and I have decided that this is the last car we are providing.  We are getting older and need to focus our money on retirement.   Further, she is reckless with cars and I am pretty sure she drinks and drives.  So we feel it would be a blessing for her to not have a car anymore.  Was wondering if anyone has been through this as well?  and if you have any advice?  My concern is that if she loses her car, she will then lose her job at Wendys and have no income.  We have always bailed her out of her messes because we wanted to get her through school to have a career.  But she bailed on the career too.  So we are lost at this point.

2.  Her cat - since 18 she has been in and out of the house multiple times.   Every time she is out she gets cats.   The first two times she had to return them to the shelter because she was moving back home amidst crisis and we have cats already and a dog so she had to surrender them.   She was not taking good care of them at all.   Overflowing dirty litterboxes.  Not sure about whether she was feeding them well or not.   Apartments were filthy.   However this time when she was with the bf she missed having pets and adopted a sweet young cat.   She only had him 2 months before she came back home and we agreed to give it a try to see if he could coexist with our pets.   Spooky is a doll and our two cats love him and our dog is fine with him as well.   So this has been his most stable home to date.  

My concern is that since she has been home she has not taken care of him physically or financially.  She claims to love him but she doesn't feed him, scoop litter, take him for nail clippings, etc.  And I pay for everything.  She always has money for cigarettes and alcohol but never spends a penny to take care of him.  

I asked her ex-bf how she was in the apartment.  He said she paid her share of rent,  but nothing else (utilities, cell phone, food, laundry).   She has always been terrible ... .TERRIBLE... .with money.  

So my main question is, if she leaves ... .is there any way I can keep the cat here to keep him safe?  I can't seem to help my daughter, but I can help this cat.  If she took him, he would be exposed to lots of bad things (sketchy ppl, alcohol, drugs?, and certainly many hours with her not home).  Although she technically lives here, she rarely is ever in the home.   She tends to spend her nights out God knows where and then comes home in the am to shower and have coffee.  


I am sorry for the long post.   If anyone has any suggestions on where to go from here I would appreciate it.   Thank you.  
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incadove
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« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2017, 01:32:55 AM »

Hi FaithfulHope

Your message sounds very grounded and practical, your daughter is lucky to have you in her life - and so is the cat!

My dd's are younger than yours and are right now on an upswing, so my advice is really only from less experience than you have - your judgement is probably best, and you probably have a good gut feeling as to the outcome.  That said, here is the best I can think of:

   - on the car, you mention that she would lose it because of finances - is it on payments?  Could she perhaps afford a cheaper car cash, or find a job in biking distance (weather permitting)?    Its good that she can keep a job, Wendy's is nothing to be ashamed of, I think it probably teaches efficient work routines. I would try to support her keeping a job as it at least gives her some structure and routine.

 - on the cat, how is your communication with her about it?  Would she be receptive to the idea of you keeping him and her being able to come visit him?  Probably saying it in the least judgemental way possible would be most effective, maybe let her know that you have become attached to the cat?  If that doesn't work, does she receive support from you when she moves out, that you could condition on being able to make sure that cat is ok?

The bigger picture seems to be her ability to take responsibility.  Lollypop has said that with her ds, working on the core relationship has helped most.  For responsibility, are there baby steps that could be taken in the right direction?  Does she do any chores at the house at all?  If there is some small thing she could be successful at doing, that you could ask of her and then express appreciation when she does it, perhaps that could get a very small motion in a positive direction?

Since you have been here before, you have probably read much of the material on the site - which things do you think were most useful to you?  Even re-reading them is helpful to me, as well as many of the books such as the DBT workbook, were useful to me - anytime I feel I'm learning something new I feel less stuck.

At some level under the out of control behavior she probably feels bad about her self, feels some sense of shame and failure.  Is she willing to do therapy and is there some resource for it?  Does she have anything in her life she feels proud of?

Thanks for coming and for the long post.  I think we learn from each other a lot by sharing details - I am hoping the best for you and would love to know how it goes from here, what you try next

Best
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FaithfulHope
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« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2017, 10:21:10 AM »

Hi Incadove,

Thank you for the reply.  When I first found this site I spent days reading post after post in tears because I had finally found others who were walking in my same shoes.   Over time my DD seemed to become more and more stable and I let myself grow hopeful that she could manage a normal future.   The past 7 months have been so hard because I now see this will never be truly behind us.   She REALLY has this awful condition and it will be up and down forever.   My heart breaks for her.  She didn't ask to have this.   She cannot help how her mind works.   Frankly she is quite happy living the way she does.  I think it is harder for her to live a more 'normal' life.   

You mentioned your DD's are younger.   Do you have more than one child with BPD?  If so, you must be so very tired at times.  I am glad that they are on an upswing.  I pray it stays.   

As for my DD, the car troubles are going to come.  I just know it.  For lack of a better way to put it, she just rejects responsibility.   Responsibility is not fun.  She likes fun.   She doesn't want to pay bills with her paycheck.  She wants to have fun with it.   When she was young... .from about 8 onward, she would lie to my face without a blink of an eye about schoolwork because that cut into fun time.  She just wanted to play.  She is still the same person, only now, playing means going out to bars, going out and doing God knows what with her ever revolving list of friends.  No friends stay very long.   She loves them, then she hates them.  Drama, drama , drama... .   She does not hang around good people.  The phrase... .water seeks its own level applies here.   I have learned to be suspicious of anyone she associates with because within a short period of time she will go from telling me they are the best person in the world to the reality that they are usually similar to her (not driven, no goals, not hardworking, always looking for money without any effort, and sadly often involved in criminal behavior).   

So, back to the car... .I suspect she is not paying her car insurance. We bought the car so there is no outstanding car payments.  She didn't want to live by the rule 'you can drive it to and from work and to and from counseling only' so she put her paycheck down to get car insurance in her name.   Now I think she is overdue on her second insurance payment.   She has been driving the car all over the place and has gotten tickets and I am not sure if she has paid those either.   So, I have a feeling that sometime soon this car will be repossessed as in the past   But this time we will not 'fix' the situation.   I am pretty sure she has been drinking and driving.  I have found two open beer cans in her cup holder since she took the car over, as well as booze bottles on the back floor of her car.   Plus she dented her hubcap on one tire but has a feeble excuse.   I don't buy it.  So, for the safety of others, i think it will be best if she loses the car.   I pray everyday she doesn't hurt anyone.

And as for the cat, she knows the cat is happy here and she keeps telling me... .if I leave the cat goes with me.   She is a spiteful person.  She has no empathy and would not put the best interest of her cat before her own interests.   It will be a tough situation.  I hope she just stays so the cat will be ok.   
 
I am not sleeping well lately.  This has been a very stressful period and I feel it is only going to get worse.   Thanks for caring and for the reply.

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Blaublau

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« Reply #3 on: November 17, 2017, 02:13:33 PM »

Hi Faithful Hope,

Thank you for sharing your story. I think it is great that you are there for your daughter. Thank you also for taking in her cats, they are only animals and cannot help themselves.

I have no advice for you, because I think that I will be struggling with the same issues once my daughter is that age. My daughter is 16 now, and we just left her in a residential facility. She was so out of control, that it would have been irresponsible to keep her any longer at home. She was endangering herself and others (stealing our cars, stealing things, drug activity and promiscuity). We are looking at the reality, that we might have to leave her at residential/therapeutic places until she is 18. We hope we can help her like that.  We just hope, that the intensive therapy she is receiving will help, and not make it worse (not sure if it could get worse.)

As I was reading your story, I was thinking, this is going to be my daughter! It reads like her! I think it is important, that you let her buy her own insurance. Then you are not liable.

Wish I had better advice to give you. The only thing I know is from the McLean Hospital Family Guidelines:
Do not protect family members from the natural consequences of their actions. Allow them to learn about reality. Bumping into a few walls is usually necessary.
- If your daughter is driving drunk and possibly without insurance, it would be a "necessary thing" to loose the car. Especially if you are worried, she might hit someone. Maybe she needs a DUI or some other "wall" to understand, that she cannot do that.

Hang in there! You do what you can.

BlauBlau

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incadove
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« Reply #4 on: November 19, 2017, 03:07:37 PM »

Hi FaithfulHope

I so hear this, the simultaneous "My heart breaks for her.  She didn't ask to have this... ." while at the same time intense frustration with her behaviour around the car and the cat.  Have you read the DBT stuff on accepting simultaneous extremes of emotion at the same time?  Its really hard when you don't have control over something so important as whether or not she endangers other people. 
 
I guess if she is living at home you do have some leverage, but applying it could damage the relationship - if you think its a matter of serious risk to herself or others, you do have the ability to tie her residence to following some rules, like no drinking and driving, said in whatever is a minimally judgmental way, and in the interests of her safety; but you'd have to be prepared for her to take off instead of following them.   If she were really convinced you are doing it for her own best interests might she follow them?

As to the need for 'fun' - yes, I think people with a lot of pain need that dopamine hit from something.  Fun is at least healthier than opioids - but as a primary focus it doesn't necessarily fit with responsibility.  Is your daughter self-aware of her emotions and does she have any goals that she is willing to try for?  Maybe something in line with her need for social activity and fun?  Building on small successes is sometimes all you can hope for, I think.

In the meantime self care is so important, to maintain the strength to carry on doing the best you can.  My DD's are younger and are doing well right now tho still carrying scars from abandonment and conflicts, mine are not necessarily BPD but the emotional patterns from abandonment I think can be very similar, the fear of rejection and trust issues.  When we were in conflict I had to learn to detach emotionally and try to get comfort from knowing that at that moment, I was doing the best I could, did care for them, and did want the best for all of us. 

And yes, it was very difficult and painful at times, I felt like I was breaking - and it wasn't easy for them either!  I'm grateful that right now, things are more stable and we have all made a decision to value our relationship (which is more distant than it was, but is positive).

If you're having trouble sleeping one thing I use is liquid melatonin, just a few drops instead of a whole sleeping pill, it apparently has this cycle with seratonin that also makes you feel better in the morning.     

Do you have other things you can focus on for a bit to stay balanced, that are also really meaningful to you?  Or hobbies, work, friends, reaching out and deepening other connections can be really stabilizing.  I find if I can get myself into a good frame of mind because of other good things in my life, then dealing with the difficult issues becomes easier because they don't feel so threatening.  (Not only my dd's but other things as well - right now my dd's are a source of support as much as anything, though I still worry about them quite a bit.)

Good luck!
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FaithfulHope
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« Reply #5 on: November 20, 2017, 08:42:50 AM »

Thank you BlauBlau and Incadove for the replies.  It means more than you could know.   I am feeling at my lowest these days because I just cannot help her anymore.  She still is her own worst enemy and chooses to live life her own way which is only going to bring ruin.   I can see it coming and am powerless to stop it.   So, I am trying to just not have conflict with her and just live moment to moment and prepare myself and my husband for the doom that I know is coming.   I am sorry to sound so negative but I am just facing the reality of our situation.   She actually came home last night and this morning I looked in her car and saw a box of Budwiser cans (couldn't see if there are any still in there) and one open Budweiser can in her cupholder.   Its just a matter of time before she gets caught and I think that will actually help me sleep better.   I used to have the same exact worries about my own mother.  My dad died before her and she started drinking even more than when he was alive.  I used to worry about her hurting someone innocent.   Now I am worried about my DD doing the same.   

BlauBlau thank you for the McLean family guidelines.  I had not heard that but it is true.  I have been 'fixing' her mistakes for years hoping she would mature enough to be more responsible and to try and help her obtain a career so she could be financially independent.  I did all that and yet here we are.   I wish my daughter had the opportunity yours did to live in a residential facility.   She didn't start really acting out of control until it was too close to age 18 so she has never had that help.   She has been in counseling since she was 14.   They try to work with her on learning DBT skills but she seems to let it go in one ear and out the other.   

Incadove thank you also for your reply.   Yes, my emotions are very conflicting... .I feel sorry she is saddled with this horrible condition yet I am very frustrated at her choices.  I am trying to learn how do validate her when I speak to her to make our relationship more peaceful. 

Do either of you feel your children have a Lack of Empathy?   Mine does to the extreme.  It is all about her and always has been.  That is a hard pill for me to swallow.  I know in my heart she does not love anyone... .not me or the rest of our family,not her 'friends', and honestly I don't think she even loves herself.   The way I describe it, is she is like a hollow person.   Just empty.  It's very sad.   I think that is why she can lie so easily.  She just doesn't care.   I often describe her as Casey Anthony minus a dead baby.   I was fascinated by that case because she lies just like my daughter.   

Incadove, you asked if she is aware of her emotions?  To some extent I think she is.   She knows her emotions are up and down.  She jokes about it on social media.   She has been in therapy long enough to know a lot of the buzz words and how to use them to her advantage.   As for goals... .nope.  She really is different. My sons both like to challenge themselves to learn new things... .but not her.  She just lives in the moment and thrives on drama.  She talks about wanting to move out and someday be a mom (gulp!) and about having pets... .but won't take the responsible steps to make it happen.   And when things crash and burn its always someone else's fault.     

Thank you for listening and helping me with your support.  It means a great deal to me.   
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jones54
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« Reply #6 on: November 22, 2017, 03:42:37 PM »

Faithful Hope,
I understand your pain and am sorry. It has been a while since I posted here but I  have a 32 yo daughter with BPD and addiction. I suspect your daughter has alcoholism. Addiction is not uncommon with BPD. They try to self medicate with alcohol or drugs. My daughter has struggled since she was 15. When she was in rehab multiple times we would be told she was co-diagnosed (BPD with the addiction). This makes it very difficult. She dropped out of Grad School in September and is now squatting in a house her mother rented for her. The lease ran out November 1. She is actively using heroin and does nothing else (no work,etc.) Her mother and I are divorced but see a therapists together. We have been instructed to have strong boundaries (no money or financial assistance). We honestly have little contact with her now. She had been lashing out at me for the last 6 months. This is not uncommon for her since she is always the victim but is worse when she uses.
Your daughter is an adult. Yes she has a mental health problem. But this is still no excuse for her behavior. I said to our therapists that it is not my daughter's fault she has BPD but the therapist said she is aware of how she acts and if she wants things different SHE has the ability to seek help. This is no different than the addiction problem. An addict will drug and drink till they hit "rock bottom" and want things different. Unfortunately some people never hit rock bottom. I am not sure if my daughter ever will but am hoping she will because we can no longer help her. This is very dangerous since she is a heroin addict and could die but EVERY addiction expert as well as the therapists say the same... .she has to figure this out on her own. I am not sure if this applies to your daughter right now but I do feel you need some boundaries. If she is drinking and driving  you have the right not to let her live with you. I know it sounds mean but at some point you need to take care of yourself. There is a good book out about stop being the caretaker for a BPD (Stop Caretaking the Borderline). That is what we all do (it is no different than enabling with an addict/alcoholic). It only persists the chaos. It is the most difficult thing you will ever do steeping back from you child who you so desperately want to be well. I struggle with it every day but know I have to do this. Not for me but for my daughter.
 I am not sure if anything I said is of any help. We all want our children to be happy and "normal" (what ever that is). As the serenity prayer says "God help me to accept the things I cannot change... ." . We can only control ourselves and have boundaries of what we will accept or not accept.
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FaithfulHope
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« Reply #7 on: January 19, 2018, 07:15:26 AM »

Dear Jones54,

I am SO very sorry for the delay in my reply.  I haven't been on the site in awhile.   It seems you and I have walked a similar path.   My daughter definitely has a problem with alcohol.   I know from things she has said that she has done cocaine in the past (and other things) but my understanding is that she has never gotten into heroin.   I am so very sorry that your daughter has.   I take anything my daughter says with a huge grain of salt as she is a compulsive liar and always has been.   She will look you straight in the eye and lie right to your face with no shred of guilt.   She does currently live with us, but there have been times since she was 18 that we had to make her move out.  It was very hard on us but we were under the guidance of her therapist and she refused to follow the house rules so she basically evicted herself.   My husband and I were always a wreck about it but we had two younger children in the home that deserved a safe environment.   Our DD was bringing bad people into the home when we were not here, she was stealing from us, etc.   She knows now that we mean business so if she engages in anything shady its not done here in our home.   Lately she has been more stable as she is dating someone new, a girl this time.   It seems she needs to be in a relationship to be more stable.   Relationships seem to keep her a little bit 'in check'.   I am currently reading 'Loving Someone with BPD' but I am going to get the book you recommended as well.   I am hoping that your daughter is doing better.  Thank you again for your reply.   It helps me to know others understand what I am dealing with.   
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« Reply #8 on: January 19, 2018, 09:06:51 AM »

Hello Faithfulhope.  I am new to this site and struggling with my DD27.  While she has an addiction to nicotine, she is relatively responsible with money.  I will have to caveat this with the fact that she will use people in a variety of ways.  She is currently trying to manipulate her ex-boyfriend into allowing her to live with him ( he would be expected to pay for the roof over her head) in another state so that she can finish her university (this is despite having slept with another guy and fallen pregnant to him - she still believes the pregnancy was her ex's fault because he should have been a better boyfriend).  She has also engaged on sites for "Sugar Daddys" and has been provided with financial support through this.  In terms of the cat, she is about to leave our state and prior to us recently being cut off, she asked us to have the cat.  We have previously taken another one of her cats in one of her 'cut and run' moments.  I am getting stronger and I have told her no, I cannot continue to pick up her pieces. I feel that if she was not that keen to take the cat interstate, then she couldn't really care too much about it.  It was then up to her as to what she did... .take it with her or send it to the animal shelter.   I also can relate to the sense of relief when you think it is not BPD but more "wow, she's growing up".  From time to time, we thought she had turned the corner, only for us/others to be sucked back into the black hole of despair.  It's really been in these past few months that we have seen the "behaviours" return with vengeance and now know this is not normal at her age and her diagnosis from three years ago is most likely appropriate.  Pushing back is very hard and can be a trigger for another rage or reaction.  Hang in there.
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FaithfulHope
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« Reply #9 on: January 26, 2018, 03:38:19 PM »

Hi Merlot,

You have a lot on your plate with your DD.  I can see some similarities with our daughters.   The manipulation and never taking ownership of the problems they put themselves in.  Do you think your daughter cuts you out when she no longer can manipulate you?   Mine just takes and takes and takes.   But we are at the point where my husband and I are ready to say 'no more'.   It is only a matter of time before a crisis happens... .the car breaks down and she has no money to repair it, the car gets impounded for not paying her insurance, or worse yet, she gets pulled over for something like DUI.  She just doesn't care that she puts others in danger when she texts behind the wheel or drinks and drives.  She claims she doesn't drive drunk.  She will only drive if she has had just one or two... .but I doubt that is the truth.   She has no impulse control.   IF mine moves out which seems more and more doubtful because she is terrible with money, she WILL take her cat which is not in the cats best interest.  He is happy and settled here and well cared for. She isn't a natural caretaker. She has no empathy and is very self centered.   But for now he (the cat) is happy here and we will take it one day at a time.   It's nice to chat with others that truly understand.   How are you feeling about the baby?  Are you worried she won't let you be a part of the childs life?  Will she be able to care for it properly?  If that were happening in my case it would be just awful.  Mine can't take care of herself much less an innocent baby.   Prayers to you.
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« Reply #10 on: January 30, 2018, 09:23:31 AM »

Hi faithfulhope, I think my daughter does cut me out as a way to control an outcome that she wants, it's a repeat pattern of behavior all her life.  I also think she has done it in response to me trying to take back a little of my life recently after helping her so much with the baby (abandonment issues).  Also, the perceived stress relating to her circumstances with the baby daddy.  She seems to be much worse when she is tired and stressed and in reaction to the slightest changes to a schedule. 

My DD27 also has two dogs, and unlike your daughter she would run herself into the ground before giving them up, but will manipulate others into looking after/paying for them.

Notwithstanding the cat ( I could see why you would want to keep it... .they walk the planet too ). The drink driving issue for you must be such a worry, in particular as you have no control over this.  Any consequence could be so devastating and we are so exposed as parents to our child's recklessness.

My DD has taken and taken as well,  now that we are cut out, a friend summed it up... .let go... .even if just for a while... .you have been used, abused and discarded.  She is so right.  I'm glad we can share out stories.  Smiling (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #11 on: February 01, 2018, 04:50:27 PM »

Hi faithfulhope

My DS was reluctant to take responsibility for himself. I always stepped in to “help” because I was trying to ease his struggle. Since dx at 24 I’ve realised the only way he learns is by making mistakes and experiencing the consequences. I wanted him to behave like an adult but I never treated him like one. I’ve found the trick for us was, to focus on the core relationship and be warm and open hearted - validating - better boundaries. These three things on top of the biggy fourth:  keeping his problems in his lap and not advising or fixing; unless he asks for advice.

I got myself a plan.  No 2 was teaching my DS financial management skills and it started by me not giving him any money, him contribute towards his living expenses and all finances matters to be dealt with by him (car insurance, phone, fuel, car tax).  It wasn’t all at once - it was done phased. With hindsight I could have done it quicker but it took me a long time to deal with conflict, reluctance and of course get a back bone!

My DS27 moved out 4 months ago and there’s been a few teething problems but he’s managing with the emotional support he needs. He’s a different person now, matured with the responsibility.

It reached the point when I realised I was preventing his development by him staying at home. He was using us. I asked him to leave nicely. It took a while but because we have a better relationship it went ok without drama. I’d never have believed it possible.

More effective communication skills learnt here are needed. Well, they were for me anyway. I don’t react to his problems - they’re his, not mine. I can empathise but that's as far as it goes. He’s ok with that now.

There’s still the dramas, he overshares, he’s hungry sometimes, doesn’t cope when sick, seeks the easy way most of the time. I listen, nod, say poor you, gosh that’s tough.

I got my life back including my sense of humour. Of course, always ready for the next unexpected or expected drama that I step aside from with a hug.

Hugs

LP
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     I did my best. He told me I wasn’t good enough. White
Partridge

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What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Child
Posts: 8


« Reply #12 on: February 04, 2018, 04:45:52 PM »

Are you kidding me? You gave your daughter 5 weapons? Five chances to kill someone’s family?  You need to wake up! We took the car away after the first accident.  I would never be able to sleep knowing I provided the weapon to a KNOWN mentally ill “child in an adult body”.  Now she calls Uber.  Your daughter needs to figure a way to work and if Uber costs too much then she needs to work towards a better job.  Be the responsible adult!
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