So confused

[Depression = 72% of members]

Hi.  I posted a thread a couple weeks ago about an incident with my mother.  I couldn't figure out how to update the original post.  Sorry!

Basically, my mom had an epic meltdown at me where she was screaming and calling me names.  I left the house.  I waited a couple days and contacted her.  She refused to get together and talk the incident through.  She has refused 3 other attempts by me to get together and talk.  In addition to her bashing me all over FB, which was highly embarrassing and absolute lies.

Anyhow, I let Thanksgiving come and go without reaching out to her. That was hard for me. Apparently my brother tried inviting her over and she wouldn't answer his calls either. For some reason, she is lumping him into the argument with me.

Well, today, her ONE actual friend sent me an email.  The woman is very nice, a saint really.  However, while she acknowledged my mothers difficulty she (nicely) was shaming me for not speaking with my mother.  She really got to me.  I did tell her that she didn't have the whole story and that I had reached out to my mother repeatedly, which she wasn't aware of.  She stated that she misses her deceased mother so much and that her children call her everyday to tell her they love her.  It is so frustrating that people with normal mothers can't realize that they are not the same relationships.  They can't fathom it, so we look so cruel.

I ended the conversation saying that I would be open to speaking to my mother if she reached out, but that I had reached out multiple times and made the conclusion that the ball was in her court and the choice to follow up was hers.  I think she's holding out for begging?

I guess what I am trying to figure out is - how do I handle this?  I don't think my mother has been the one to call after a fight, ever. But even if she does call me, do I insist on recognition of the events?  I want to be clear with her that I will not be belittled and screamed at, but how do we get there if she won't even recognize that she did it?    

Has anyone had success with boundaries? Has anyone insisted on an elusive apology?  Any suggestions on discussing boundaries or even getting to bring them up?  

Sometimes it's just easier to not saying anything and move on.  But, I don't want that life anymore.

[Mariez]

Hi.  I posted a thread a couple weeks ago about an incident with my mother.  I couldn't figure out how to update the original post.  Sorry!

Basically, my mom had an epic meltdown at me where she was screaming and calling me names.  I left the house.  I waited a couple days and contacted her.  She refused to get together and talk the incident through.  She has refused 3 other attempts by me to get together and talk.  In addition to her bashing me all over FB, which was highly embarrassing and absolute lies.

Anyhow, I let Thanksgiving come and go without reaching out to her. That was hard for me. Apparently my brother tried inviting her over and she wouldn't answer his calls either. For some reason, she is lumping him into the argument with me.

Well, today, her ONE actual friend sent me an email.  The woman is very nice, a saint really.  However, while she acknowledged my mothers difficulty she (nicely) was shaming me for not speaking with my mother.  She really got to me.  I did tell her that she didn't have the whole story and that I had reached out to my mother repeatedly, which she wasn't aware of.  She stated that she misses her deceased mother so much and that her children call her everyday to tell her they love her.  It is so frustrating that people with normal mothers can't realize that they are not the same relationships.  They can't fathom it, so we look so cruel.

I ended the conversation saying that I would be open to speaking to my mother if she reached out, but that I had reached out multiple times and made the conclusion that the ball was in her court and the choice to follow up was hers.  I think she's holding out for begging?

I guess what I am trying to figure out is - how do I handle this?  I don't think my mother has been the one to call after a fight, ever. But even if she does call me, do I insist on recognition of the events?  I want to be clear with her that I will not be belittled and screamed at, but how do we get there if she won't even recognize that she did it?    

Has anyone had success with boundaries? Has anyone insisted on an elusive apology?  Any suggestions on discussing boundaries or even getting to bring them up?  

Sometimes it's just easier to not saying anything and move on.  But, I don't want that life anymore.

[Woolspinner2000]

Hi Mariez!   

Thank you for sharing your story about this most recent event. You must be so frustrated all around, not only with your mom but also with the friend of your mom. Yes, it is very difficult for those outside of the realm in which the children of a pwBPD grew up to understand that the relationship we have with that parent is not normal. That why I have found this board to be so helpful.

Perhaps your mom was having a classic BPD behavior called an Extinction burst.

BPD BEHAVIORS: Extinction Bursts

Does this describe what you mentioned?

 
Wools

[Panda39]

Hi Mariez,

I wanted to chime in and say that I thought you handled your mom's friend very well.  You are correct the ball is in your mom's court, I would just wait it out at this point.

I also wanted to point out the triangle that your mom created by involving her friend in the issues between the two of you. 

Karpman Triangle

The Karpman Triangle, described by Stephen Karpman is a very useful tool for understanding "stuck" relationship dynamics. The roles are Persecutor, Victim, and Rescuer. We may start in one position, but as another (or others) shift around the triangle, so do we.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=108440

What role(s) do you think your mother played on the triangle?
What role(s) do you think your mother's friend played on the triangle?
What role(s) do you think you played on the triangle?
Do the roles change from each person's point of view?
Do you often end up in triangles with your mom and others?
How might you have taken yourself off the triangle?

Just some stuff to think about.  I'm really glad you've added your voice to the group here, you are not alone  .

If you want to find your original post click on the "settings" link in the above toolbar, once you see your settings there is a link at the bottom "Last posts of this person" click on that link and search your previous posts. When you find the one you want click on the title/Subject you named your post (for example this one is "Re:So confused) and it will take you back to that post/conversation. To comment just hit the "reply" tab at the bottom of the page.

Hope that helps. 
Take Care,
Panda39

[worn_out]

Woolspinner's link to the Extinction Burst was excellent.

"We essentially remove our reinforcement in an attempt to stop the behavior. We simply stop rewarding the behavior."

BPDs are terrified of abandonment, so it makes us feel terrible when we disengage from them. If your mother is trashing you on social media, it's important to block her (I know it feels bad). And the interventions from clueless friends who think they can somehow help "mend" things are so frustrating. Find people and activities outside of your family that nuture who you really are. You don't have to cut your mom out of your life, just create a social network  separate from hers. I spent so much time trying to placate my BPD mother when, in retrospect, I just should have gotten on with my life. They are a bottomless pit of needs.

[Woolspinner2000]

Some great discussion here with lots of good points. 

We have Extinction bursts, fear of abandonment, and the Karpman triangle. Do you think all 3 of these can work together at the same time, one triggering off of another to make a dynamic tangled web that is nearly impossible to get out of?

I like the analogy of a spider's web, with the one weaving the web as being like the pwBPD, and maybe we are like the flies that tend to get caught in the strands. How can we best avoid getting caught in it?

 
Wools

[Mariez]

Wow, thank you everyone.  How very eye opening.  I haven't read about extinction burst or Karpman's triangle.  My mom has multiple triangles going at all times! I actually try not to participate in her triangles, but I do probably become more involved when my brother is the offender.  I have become more aware of that over the years and have been actively trying to not get involved in their arguments.  I predicted that I would be getting emails from a "rescuer(s)", so I expected this one.  I was just disappointed in myself for how guilty I felt after the email, even though I know I am validated in my actions and feelings.  The extinction burst makes a lot of sense.  In this particular scenario, instead of just letting her behavior go because it's 'easier', I spoke up and stated that it would not be tolerated.  Now I am getting the most intense and extreme reactions from her.  So, that must be why!

I didn't know about these two theories, but from reading, it sounds like I did everything that I was supposed to do.  Intentional or not.  This is reassuring to know, as I was second guessing whether I handled everything properly, because I feel so guilty about the result.  To be honest,  my new method of standing up and walking away from her was just from a place of exhaustion.  I just don't have the emotional energy to engage in her manufactured dramas and chaos.

This has reinforced my idea that I will not be reaching out to her further.  I'm not opposed to working things out with her, but I cannot continue being emotionally and verbally abused anymore. I also don't want to keep inadvertently reinforcing her damaging behavior.

[Panda39]

Wow, thank you everyone.  How very eye opening.  I haven't read about extinction burst or Karpman's triangle. 

It really helps to see the dynamics behind the behaviors, I think it helps not take things as personally. 

To be honest,  my new method of standing up and walking away from her was just from a place of exhaustion.  I just don't have the emotional energy to engage in her manufactured dramas and chaos.

This has reinforced my idea that I will not be reaching out to her further.  I'm not opposed to working things out with her, but I cannot continue being emotionally and verbally abused anymore. I also don't want to keep inadvertently reinforcing her damaging behavior.

You are setting boundaries (regardless of the reason... .I'd be pretty pooped out too  ) and that is a good thing.  It's about protecting yourself. Her feelings, her life, her needs are not more important than your own.  It is not selfish to put your needs first.

Below are some links to more on Boundaries and a link on being assertive that you might find helpful…
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=61684.0
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=167368.0
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.phptopic=206736.msg12292931#msg12292931

I also wanted to point out the box to the right everything in it is a link to more information.  You might want to check out the Lessons section when you have some time.

Take Care,
Panda39