My ex pwBPD is often psychic

[Blimblam]

I want to add from my above response

If you want to dig deeper than that look up everything you can on the trickster or trickster god, the joker, and the fool.

That and the djinn.

Are all these viewpoints helping you detach Blim?

Yes, I am following my gut. My gut led me to those things.

[Conundrum]

I'm familiar with those same traits within my x-pwBPD. Being a stranger to herself, mirroring characteristics which are absent from her being--she intuits the patterns of others via mechanisms which are beyond the scope of ordered relational analysis . It is a primordial EKG that monitors the relational activity within the hearts of others. Even without present data, she is capable of intricate-accurate-deductive-suppositions, combining probability, archived relational patterns with specific know quantities.     

[fromheeltoheal]

I'm familiar with those same traits within my x-pwBPD. Being a stranger to herself, mirroring characteristics which are absent from her being--she intuits the patterns of others via mechanisms which are beyond the scope of ordered relational analysis . It is a primordial EKG that monitors the relational activity within the hearts of others. Even without present data, she is capable of intricate-accurate-deductive-suppositions, combining probability, archived relational patterns with specific know quantities.     

So Conundrum, is her ability to intuit innate or learned?

[Conundrum]

So Conundrum, is her ability to intuit innate or learned?

That's the logical follow-up question. And it's the chicken or the egg. Which cannot be easily parsed. Hereditary% + environmental% = ?  I agree that it's a combination, but while generational predisposition is often present--the proximate cause is trauma. And w BPD statistically appearing within the feminine psyche to a much greater degree--the specific traumatic event lies with the sexual abuse of very young girls.

Consequently, that relational predictive radar Imo, is a bit more learned than innate--because the proximate cause is environmental.  Still, the trauma triggers the hereditary disposition and kicks in the innate generational instinct.            

[Blimblam]

I'm familiar with those same traits within my x-pwBPD. Being a stranger to herself, mirroring characteristics which are absent from her being--she intuits the patterns of others via mechanisms which are beyond the scope of ordered relational analysis . It is a primordial EKG that monitors the relational activity within the hearts of others. Even without present data, she is capable of intricate-accurate-deductive-suppositions, combining probability, archived relational patterns with specific know quantities.     

This makes a lot of sense. And I think it has to do with their ability to triangulate, almost forming a kind of tribe of souls within themself.

[fromheeltoheal]

So Conundrum, is her ability to intuit innate or learned?

That's the logical follow-up question. And it's the chicken or the egg. Which cannot be easily parsed. Hereditary% + environmental% = ?  I agree that it's a combination, but while generational predisposition is often present--the proximate cause is trauma. And w BPD statistically appearing within the feminine psyche to a much greater degree--the specific traumatic event lies with the sexual abuse of very young girls.

Consequently, that relational predictive radar Imo, is a bit more learned than innate--because the proximate cause is environmental.  Still, the trauma triggers the hereditary disposition and kicks in the innate generational instinct.            

My understanding is the genesis of the disorder is a failure to successfully detach from a primary caregiver, by weathering the subsequent abandonment depression, a necessary step in ego development and the acquisition of a 'self'.  That can have multiple causes, sexual abuse among them, but also neglect, or simply a mother with her own issues who wouldn't allow the detachment.

I do agree that the ability to intuit, for us all, is a product of both nature and nurture, or the lack of it, and for a borderline it's borne out of necessity, since the ability to 'connect' on a conventional level is absent.

My ex had an extraordinarily developed sense of smell, she could probably rival a drug dog, and she claims she wasn't abused but neglected, and I believe the neglected part, but she's a pathological liar too, plus whatever happened back then may be blocked from consciousness for protection.  The ripple effects of our rearing can be profound.

[MammaMia]

Fromheeltotoe

I find your comments about detachment interesting.  However, I have a question.

Has anyone else out there found that their BPD child was the one who was unable to detach from a parent?

This is the case with my BPDs. 

Just curious.  Thanx.

[fromheeltoheal]

Fromheeltotoe

I find your comments about detachment interesting.  However, I have a question.

Has anyone else out there found that their BPD child was the one who was unable to detach from a parent?

This is the case with my BPDs.  

Just curious.  Thanx.

Yes, I meant the child, although we're not talking about still living at home in your late 20's, that kind of detachment, we're talking much more basic: before we're born and slightly thereafter, we can't distinguish between ourselves and our mother; from a baby's perspective they are one person, which isn't a stretch really, since we used to be inside our mother.  At some point the baby is lying in his crib or whatever, mom leaves the room, and the baby isn't positive she's coming back, not only that, he's starting to get the idea that there is a 'me' and a 'her', two separate entities.  That's a traumatic realization, and results in what's termed abandonment depression.  Most of us weather that depression just fine, it's a necessary part of ego development and the development of a 'self'.  But borderlines never go through that, the thought of abandonment and the subsequent depression are just too much to handle, or mom won't let it happen by never letting the baby out of her sight and touch.  So the kid grows up continually trying to get back to that fusing of two people into one, an attachment, and being terrified of abandonment, a replaying of the initial bond with their primary caregiver, mother probably, that created the disorder to begin with.  Sound familiar?  Put in that context, the motivation behind my ex's actions is clear.

[Blimblam]

Anyone that experiences some "psychic" or "mystical." Experiences along their inward journey it is ok. Embrace it is not wrong or unhealthy. What is "normal" anyway?

There have always been those who experience the mystical from the apostle paul to Carl Jung. We are not homogenous automotons and everyone is capable of it. JR tolkien has a book about it called The Smith of Wooten Major, and reading that book may provide acceptance of ones experience and the confidence to explore it.

[Bak86]

Fromheeltotoe

I find your comments about detachment interesting.  However, I have a question.

Has anyone else out there found that their BPD child was the one who was unable to detach from a parent?

This is the case with my BPDs.  

Just curious.  Thanx.

Yes, I meant the child, although we're not talking about still living at home in your late 20's, that kind of detachment, we're talking much more basic: before we're born and slightly thereafter, we can't distinguish between ourselves and our mother; from a baby's perspective they are one person, which isn't a stretch really, since we used to be inside our mother.  At some point the baby is lying in his crib or whatever, mom leaves the room, and the baby isn't positive she's coming back, not only that, he's starting to get the idea that there is a 'me' and a 'her', two separate entities.  That's a traumatic realization, and results in what's termed abandonment depression.  Most of us weather that depression just fine, it's a necessary part of ego development and the development of a 'self'.  But borderlines never go through that, the thought of abandonment and the subsequent depression are just too much to handle, or mom won't let it happen by never letting the baby out of her sight and touch.  So the kid grows up continually trying to get back to that fusing of two people into one, an attachment, and being terrified of abandonment, a replaying of the initial bond with their primary caregiver, mother probably, that created the disorder to begin with.  Sound familiar?  Put in that context, the motivation behind my ex's actions is clear.

Explains it all. Great example is when my ex used to get angry at her mother, because she didn't show up on time for a meetup. Hello, abandonment fear!

[fromheeltoheal]

Fromheeltotoe

I find your comments about detachment interesting.  However, I have a question.

Has anyone else out there found that their BPD child was the one who was unable to detach from a parent?

This is the case with my BPDs.  

Just curious.  Thanx.

Yes, I meant the child, although we're not talking about still living at home in your late 20's, that kind of detachment, we're talking much more basic: before we're born and slightly thereafter, we can't distinguish between ourselves and our mother; from a baby's perspective they are one person, which isn't a stretch really, since we used to be inside our mother.  At some point the baby is lying in his crib or whatever, mom leaves the room, and the baby isn't positive she's coming back, not only that, he's starting to get the idea that there is a 'me' and a 'her', two separate entities.  That's a traumatic realization, and results in what's termed abandonment depression.  Most of us weather that depression just fine, it's a necessary part of ego development and the development of a 'self'.  But borderlines never go through that, the thought of abandonment and the subsequent depression are just too much to handle, or mom won't let it happen by never letting the baby out of her sight and touch.  So the kid grows up continually trying to get back to that fusing of two people into one, an attachment, and being terrified of abandonment, a replaying of the initial bond with their primary caregiver, mother probably, that created the disorder to begin with.  Sound familiar?  Put in that context, the motivation behind my ex's actions is clear.

Explains it all. Great example is when my ex used to get angry at her mother, because she didn't show up on time for a meetup. Hello, abandonment fear!

Although all of the above is subconscious, and happens before the ability to reason and understand is developed.  If you want more, The Search for the Real Self my Masterson does a good job of explaining the genesis of BPD and NPD, along with normal development of the self.  Fascinating.

[MammaMia]

Heeltotoe

OK.  Gotcha.  From your post, I thought you were speaking primarily about the mother who is unable to let go of her child and fosters dependence for that reason.  

Sadly, some children with BPD are unable to grow up and move on. They are often the 20, 30, or 40 year olds still living at home because they cannot function well or support themselves.  

I just wanted to address the fact that many parents are supporting adult BPD children for that reason, and

not because they have voluntarily chosen to do so.  

[fromheeltoheal]

Heeltotoe

OK.  Gotcha.  From your post, I thought you were speaking primarily about the mother who is unable to let go of her child and fosters dependence for that reason.  

Sadly, some children with BPD are unable to grow up and move on. They are often the 20, 30, or 40 year olds still living at home because they are unable to function well or support themselves.  

I just wanted to address the fact that many parents are supporting adult BPD children for that reason, and

not because they have chosen to do so.  

Around here they would be called low functioning borderlines; my ex has a brother in that exact situation.  And then there are healthy folks still living at home late into adulthood, with the affectionate label of slacker.

Although again the detachment thing is at the level of core identity, or lack thereof, and deeply psychological, not just an overdependence on parents.

[See Rainbows]

You are feeding his ego way larger than you should. He's not psychic, he's a con man. A master manipulator. If it were the 19th century, he'd be the guy riding into town selling proverbial snake oil to all the residence in town. Do you honestly believe this? What is the calling card of these people? manipulation. What are their underlying fears? Abandonment and Rejection or Invalidation. He may be intuitive, I would be in agreement with that. Again, that isn't some power, it's a manifestation of psychological and emotional abuse. In essence it's part of his pathology. When someone is neglected, abandoned, ignored, shamed, tormented, or any other said form of emotional abuse. They instinctively become tuned into verbal, physical and familiarity queues in their surroundings. Not because they are psychic. It's because they are severely damaged and much like a survivor of war with PTSD who attends a 4th of July fireworks display upon returning, their relationship with the external world is forever altered due to a constant state of perceived threat and damage infliction. When you say he's transferred it to you, that could be nothing more than you who may have been raised in a comparatively safe place vs him, so you were protected from harm and therefore less in tune with the people around you who you generally regarded as non dangerous. Exposure to someone who is a manipulative emotional abuser would in fact transfer the same state of heightened awareness (i.e. anxiety or PTSD) to you as their victim wherein you live in a state of hyper awareness also known as fear. The things he saw in your past is due to their keen awareness of who would make the ideal victim. They instinctively look for lack of boundaries. People who open up about everything right away. People who FEEL SAFE BEFORE THERE IS REASON TO FEEL SAFE = PREY TO A PREDATOR. That's why they are such good listeners in the beginning yet aren't later. They take in everything about you and use it to profile you as their victim. It's why they instinctively understand how to pull you in, the things to say to create a sense of shell shock where you become totally paralyzed in a state of learned helplessness. In fact I think one of the hallmarks of narcissism is listed in the DSM categorial listing as (I'm paraphrasing) belief of magical powers.

Anxiety - Thank you for your opinion on my post. However, I have known this man for 12 years, 8 years before he even developed BPD type symptoms. He is a good man who grew up with a normal childhood without any abuse. He would rather hurt himself before he hurts anyone else. He's not a narcissistic sociopath which it seems you are describing all BPDs to be. Every person is different with different symptoms and it's wise to refrain from blanket judgement about people you don't even know. My BPDh is going to therapists to get better which is a huge step, especially for a man. Therapy might benefit you as well as it sounds like you've had some negative experiences with a pwBPD.

[fromheeltoheal]

You are feeding his ego way larger than you should. He's not psychic, he's a con man. A master manipulator. If it were the 19th century, he'd be the guy riding into town selling proverbial snake oil to all the residence in town. Do you honestly believe this? What is the calling card of these people? manipulation. What are their underlying fears? Abandonment and Rejection or Invalidation. He may be intuitive, I would be in agreement with that. Again, that isn't some power, it's a manifestation of psychological and emotional abuse. In essence it's part of his pathology. When someone is neglected, abandoned, ignored, shamed, tormented, or any other said form of emotional abuse. They instinctively become tuned into verbal, physical and familiarity queues in their surroundings. Not because they are psychic. It's because they are severely damaged and much like a survivor of war with PTSD who attends a 4th of July fireworks display upon returning, their relationship with the external world is forever altered due to a constant state of perceived threat and damage infliction. When you say he's transferred it to you, that could be nothing more than you who may have been raised in a comparatively safe place vs him, so you were protected from harm and therefore less in tune with the people around you who you generally regarded as non dangerous. Exposure to someone who is a manipulative emotional abuser would in fact transfer the same state of heightened awareness (i.e. anxiety or PTSD) to you as their victim wherein you live in a state of hyper awareness also known as fear. The things he saw in your past is due to their keen awareness of who would make the ideal victim. They instinctively look for lack of boundaries. People who open up about everything right away. People who FEEL SAFE BEFORE THERE IS REASON TO FEEL SAFE = PREY TO A PREDATOR. That's why they are such good listeners in the beginning yet aren't later. They take in everything about you and use it to profile you as their victim. It's why they instinctively understand how to pull you in, the things to say to create a sense of shell shock where you become totally paralyzed in a state of learned helplessness. In fact I think one of the hallmarks of narcissism is listed in the DSM categorial listing as (I'm paraphrasing) belief of magical powers.

Anxiety - Thank you for your opinion on my post. However, I have known this man for 12 years, 8 years before he even developed BPD type symptoms. He is a good man who grew up with a normal childhood without any abuse. He would rather hurt himself before he hurts anyone else. He's not a narcissistic sociopath which it seems you are describing all BPDs to be. Every person is different with different symptoms and it's wise to refrain from blanket judgement about people you don't even know. My BPDh is going to therapists to get better which is a huge step, especially for a man. Therapy might benefit you as well as it sounds like you've had some negative experiences with a pwBPD.

You're right Lolah, BPD traits exist on a continuum and everyone is different, it sounds like your guy might have been a lighter version, and kudos to him for seeking therapy.  And negative experiences with borderlines are what bring us all together here, so we have that in common anyway, and anxiety's comments:

They instinctively look for lack of boundaries. People who open up about everything right away. That's why they are such good listeners in the beginning yet aren't later. They take in everything about you and use it to profile you as their victim. It's why they instinctively understand how to pull you in, the things to say to create a sense of shell shock where you become totally paralyzed in a state of learned helplessness.

speak to me and my experience to a tee, and is why I left her by flinging myself to safety like someone who's being electrocuted, flailing with everything I had.  And I did seek therapy and was diagnosed with PTSD, which has since resolved and I now see the experience and the lessons as a gift.  Live, love and learn... .

[Fluff]

FYI, BPD 33: Magical Thinking of Borderline Personality Disorder: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3FOsRFTnz8