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VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?" Parental alienation is when a parent allows a child to participate or hear them degrade the other parent. This is not uncommon in divorces and the children often adjust. In severe cases, however, it can be devastating to the child. This video provides a helpful overview.
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Jeffree
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« on: February 05, 2018, 10:38:21 AM »

So, my STBx came over to my house to watch the Super Bowl. How she finagled this was crazy.

My SD21 sand SS18 got into a big fight earlier in the week PLUS SS18 was ringing alarm bells over the declining health of our English Lab. STBx was at a tradeshow all week. All I knew was that she was going to stop by after the show on Sunday to talk with the kids about the fight. OK. I told my SD21 that's fine, but I am not going to stick around for the dog and pony show.

I was told she was going to get to the house by 5:30 p.m. As I was getting ready to leave at 5 pm, she pulls into the driveway. I was very surprised, because she is notoriously late. She makes a beeline for my bedroom as I am trying to get ready to leave and starts off by telling me a dear friend of the family, SS18's godmother died, but she didn't want to start the evening off by telling the kids this. This poor woman had been ill with cancer for 5 years, and wasn't doing well, and had finally succumbed. STBx had emailed me the obit.

So, then she tells me she wants to watch the Super Bowl to get things calmed down with the kids, then tell them the news afterward. I was pretty hamstrung to leave and/or kick her out. Yes, of course, I could have heartlessly done either, but it didn't seem like a wise time to exercise my detached-ness and leave my own house on Super Bowl Sunday to prove to her how much I loathe her. Besides, she wasn't irritating me as usual, and I am pretty detached from her emotionally, so I was dealing with this all pretty well.

I will say this. If she acted like she did last night toward me at ANY point in the past three years, we could possibly still be living under the same roof. She complimented the improvements I've made to the house (as opposed to crying dramatically that I am doing everything in my power to erase her memory from the house as she had the past few times), commented about how nice and warm the place was (as opposed to always nagging me to turn up the heat above the 65 I keep it during the evening), then she mopped the floors (which really needed it) after the dog had an accident, etc. Yes, of course she poured herself a vodka-tonic quite quickly, and was very loud about the game, but overall she was VERY different than she had been in a very long time.

One thing that was interesting was that she switched her allegiances to the Patriots from the Giants, since she just spent a week in Boston and has been spending a lot of time in New England. Yes, I see the uncanny symbolism there for the ol' BPD switcheroo, but at least that a harmless version of it.

The whole time we talked like friends as opposed to ex-lovers, which was fine. At least she wasn't talking to me like I was the worst human being on the planet like she was accustomed to doing. I told her the Pats were losing because she switched allegiances, and you just can't do that. She didn't seem irked by that.

So at a certain point, given that it was snowing, then turned to rain, and where she lives the driving at night could be dicey, I told her if she wanted to she could sleep on the couch or on the futon in my office, which I set up as a makeshift bedroom so the dog doesn't have to navigate the staircase anymore. She said she and SD21 had already made that arrangement, and she asked me if SD21 had spoken to me about it. She hadn't, so it was no big deal. Whatever. I made the gesture, and it doesn't matter to me if she noticed I had made it without prior discussion.

I set up the space heater, got her a pillow, and comforter, and set her up on the couch. Filled her in on my dad's last days and what that was like. She told me about all the good work she is doing at her job. THE END.

I feel rejuvenated in the sense that this was a big test of how detached I have become, and I passed with flying colors.

I do think constantly displaying my hatred for her was not received as detachment by her. While it was the beginning of detaching for me, it was not actual detachment. Now? Being able to have her in my house in front of my face and feel like I do toward her like I would seeing a cloud in the sky, is honest to goodness detachment... .for me.

J

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« Reply #1 on: February 05, 2018, 01:06:57 PM »

Good for you.  Sounds like you handled the situation very well!

I had a weird superbowl, here we are in the midst of fighting and divorce threats and she invites our entire circle of friends over for a party at our place... .?  At first I wasn't invited (yeah, really not invited to my own house), then I was on catering and clean up duty... .  ok so it seems like another weekend of BPD flip flopping.  Saturday was prep day and absolute hell, Sunday more prep, but it was like old times.

" If she acted like she did last night toward me at ANY point in the past three years, we could possibly still be living under the same roof."

Here is where the detaching is hard for me.  I'm not quite where you are where you can see it for what it is, just improved behavior.  I still get stuck, and even though I am making strides in detaching, when there is "good behavior"  I get stuck in the trap of... .did I really try everything I could?  I know in my hear I have tried everything that most "normal" people would, yet knowing more about BPD/traits there is still a little linger of doubt.  I need to find a way to get rid of it.  I can't do this anymore.

Glad you were able to make it through yesterday, keep up the good work.
-Oz
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« Reply #2 on: February 05, 2018, 02:25:11 PM »

I need to find a way to get rid of it.  I can't do this anymore.


But that's what I'm saying here. It's so hard to make a clean break.

But let's own what's ours... .

I think there are times when our BPD SO could literally say to our face in as calm a demeanor and with as clear a conscience as possible, "I am not interested in being your <friend, GF, BF, BFF, spouse, etc.> anymore." It doesn't matter how serious a relationship it was, or how long it has lasted, they have the ability to just turn a switch and eliminate their interest in us.

Yet somehow we can run through the mental gymnastics to think, "Oh, he/she doesn't really mean that. There's no way they can. After all I did for them? They just told me they loved me more than air itself the other day."

But they are most definitely capable of meaning it and living it. Oftentimes that sucks for us, or so we think, but, yes, that oceanic honeymoon phase can turn into an equal and opposite nightmare.

Lastly, we can only detach as far as we can based on our own abilities. Many times we know what's best for us, but can't always act in our best interests. It happens. No need to be harsh to ourselves.

J
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« Reply #3 on: February 05, 2018, 05:38:19 PM »

Looks like you handled it like a champ. I’m very curious about your situation. Why is it that you don’t make arrangements to have her out of your life as much as possible. The kids are old enough. I’m sorry if I’m missing something, but it seems like you have a certain hatred towards your ex. You allow her to come and go as she pleases and if I’ve read some of your other posts correctly, the kids are kind of the middleman. They give you heads up if she’s coming around. Forgive me Jeffree, but that doesn’t sound productive. It almost sounds like you’re stuck. Again, forgive if I’m overstepping. You’ve been a great support to me here. It kind of resonates with words meaning little and actions being the truth. Is there a possibility that you’re on a teeter-totter of anger/denial? I know what the effects of being in more than one of these relationships are. Just like you. I know that the aftermath gets worse after each recycle and add to that, each partner. I guess I’m confused on why you keep this one around. Kind of intrigued.
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« Reply #4 on: February 05, 2018, 07:37:33 PM »

JNChell,

Well, it’s really weird. She’s actually still here downstairs with SD21 and her Gf watching TV. I really don’t know what’s going on, but I don’t particularly care. Her bio kids and pets live here, so she swings by every once in a while. Why she’s lingering today I don’t know. She mentioned her place being very cold, but I don’t know if that has anything to do with it.

I thought she was out, especially after that last text exchange that I posted on here. Part of the delay is that I have not scraped together the money to retain my divorce atty. Another part is that I have no idea what is going on. This is uncharted territory for me with her. I don’t even know how long she’s planning to stay. I have to almost laugh at the ridiculousness of this. At least she’s still not been an a$$h0l3 toward me.

If I had to guess she’s lonely and misses the signs of life here as opposed to what she goes home to. Maybe she and whomever she has been with since me are on the rocks? I don’t know.

As for myself, life just keeps making no sense and I just keep rolling with it.

J
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« Reply #5 on: February 05, 2018, 07:44:15 PM »

J, the recycle is sitting downstairs!
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« Reply #6 on: February 05, 2018, 07:47:37 PM »

Are you sure that you just haven’t gone numb to it all? I mean you’re improving the house and being the main parental figure to her kids, who are technically grown. What gives?
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« Reply #7 on: February 05, 2018, 08:42:46 PM »

It’s not the kids’ fault their mom is a screw up.

Update: I went downstairs to check on everything. About 15 mins ago SD21 had a couple of friends over and they, too, were hanging out with STBx. I came upstairs to brush my teeth, then went back downstairs to say goodnight.

STBx was by herself going to sleep, without turning off the lights, which seemed odd to me.

I asked her if anything was wrong. Man, did that bring back nightmares of our last years together.

She said, “yes.”

I said. “What’s wrong?

She said, “I now remember why I don’t live here anymore.”

I said, “What happened?”

She said, “I don’t want to talk about it.”

I said, “Was it something I did?” I knew I hadn’t done anything wrong, but with her anything could trigger her. I was showing one of SD21’s friends all the changes I have made to the house, so I thought maybe she was jealous.

She said, “It wasn’t anything you did.”

My suspicion is that when SD21 ended STBx’s fun with everyone by going up to her room with her friends that upset STBx. She had even invited STBx up to join them, but she didn’t want to. I didn’t hear any arguing, so it must have been something harmless that triggered STBx. That’s how quickly it can happen.

In the good old days, I would have gotten accused of conveniently leaving the room to brush my teeth knowing full well she was going to get into it with the kids, which was just ludicrous.

Anyhoo, that should be that. Now she has alienated herself from the kids again. Let’s see just how much more she wants to pout about something this stupid, though I will be asleep soon

J

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« Reply #8 on: February 05, 2018, 08:51:05 PM »

I might be numb to it, but I feel more accepting of the breakdown of the marriage as being irretrievable.

Being back here has helped me sharpen my detachment skills, so I think it’s a good thing I’m indifferent towards her.

J
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« Reply #9 on: February 06, 2018, 09:53:38 AM »

Funny, she actually told me she turned up the heat in the house to 65 yesterday. I think it goes down to 63 after 9 p.m., or so. She also apparently has some sort of laser thermometer (just what she needs), so of course the heat had to be adjusted.

I don't understand how someone can complain about the temperature of a house no matter what it is set at. When I had it set warmer, she'd complain that it's too hot and triggering her asthma. If it was too cold she'd complain that she can't work like this and wear her winter coat in the house.

Again, these are silly things, but they are part and parcel of a nons inability to ever meet their needs.

J
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« Reply #10 on: February 07, 2018, 12:33:38 PM »

Here is one of many possible detaching rubs... .

While she was squatting in my house for two days, STBx mentioned that she has stopped paying her rent because the landlord has improvements to make to the cottage she's renting. I have no idea how real what she was saying is or how that scenario ends, BUT... .I keep thinking about what I will do if she either moves out of that place with nowhere else to go or is kicked out and she asks to move back in (if she even asks before just assuming she can).

I can't envision telling her to cram it and leaving her homeless, but I really do not want to be under the same roof as her ever again. 

Maybe she can pay me rent and I'll move out? Will the kids stay in the house with her in it? The mind boggles. 

Oh boy. 

J
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« Reply #11 on: February 07, 2018, 12:52:49 PM »

i think being able to get along with her, and/or tolerate her is definitely a strong sign of detachment.

it doesnt sound like you want her in your home on any kind of permanent or semi permanent basis, right?
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« Reply #12 on: February 07, 2018, 12:55:05 PM »

it doesnt sound like you want her in your home on any kind of permanent or semi permanent basis, right?


HELL NO! 

J
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« Reply #13 on: February 07, 2018, 12:57:11 PM »

im with you  Smiling (click to insert in post)

is she making hints about it, or are you anticipating that she will go down that road?
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« Reply #14 on: February 07, 2018, 02:42:54 PM »

No hints. It’s just once she’s in conflict with someone or something, that person or things gets abandoned. If she leaves her place, I don’t know where her next stop is. She just might be delusional enough to think she can come back here if we go a long enough stretch of time not at each other’s throats. I, however, am not interested in having her in my life, or even near it.

J
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« Reply #15 on: February 13, 2018, 03:31:41 PM »

More from the land of make believe. This was a text exchange on the evening of the memorial this past Sat. for my father's passing. She was supposed to stay at my house and watch our dog, who is beginning to have some issues with his hind legs.

STBx: What time are you leaving in the morning?

Me: 9 ish.

STBx: Okay. I will not be able to get there to early afternoon. Please make sure you get him (my black Lab) up to the bathroom and he eats. Please let me know his meds schedule. The pipes in my house busted and flooded the place. So I am looking at some rooms before I go to take care of (pet). I am staying at hotel till I can move out.

Me: I can have (SD21 GF) cover it instead. Sorry about your Home.
What a bummer.

STBx: Could she really?

Me: Okay. Yes.
No problem.

STBx: I am not sure how I feel about all of this
Working though it
Through it

Me: Like you say, everything happens for a reason.
Must be a good one in your case.

STBx: Well since people think I’m ass, I am sure this makes people who dislike me happy.
I will not tell you good luck tomorrow or I give my condolences to you your family or I pray for you guys, because you make it clear to me to save it for those I really care about.

Me: Who would be made happy by your misfortune?

STBx: Many
Including you
Your many emails making sure I knew how horrible I am was affective

Me: So we're back to this already?

STBx: I never left
I just needed to deal with the kids and (pet). If you go back and review the many communications, I didn’t go there.
You didn’t want me to help you with your Dad or your family. You made clear I was ass and I was not even worthy of feeling deep sadness for you and your family’s great loss. So tomorrow I celebrate the loss of my Dad.
4 years gone and the hole in my heart is endless
At this point I’m feeling very beatin down, hurt and devastated.
 Please just make sure (SS18) has money on his card

Me: I am very sorry for all your losses. Can't even imagine it all.
Like you said a long time ago, I can't understand how you feel. And it's true.
I can't.
I tried, but there's no way to do it all.

STBx: If you were really sorry, you would have put all the sh1t a side and allowed me to support you
But you took that away from me
To hurt me
And it worked

Me: I didn't do it to hurt you.
It had nothing to do with that.
Do you need (SD21) to be with you tomorrow?
To help you with your house and the loss of your dad and now (SS18 godmother)?
I'm sure you're dealing with a lot and could use the love and support.

STBx: For whatever your reasons where, they were very hurtful and unnecessary mean. I believe (SD21) needs to be with you.

Me: OK.

So, there you have it, folks. No matter the situation, she is able to keep her focus on herself and all the horrible things everyone has done to her and her losses. She actually knew about the pipes in her house bursting on Wednesday, but didn't give me a heads up that watching the dog could be a problem for her. I, of course, knowing just how unreliable she is had a backup plan, so as to not have any of her b.s. impact my plans to memorialize my dad.

And, yes, when she had tried to offer me condolences for the passing of my Dad I did tell her to save it for people she actually cared about and for people who have passed who she didn't speak ill of.

I have since gone back to blocking her, seeing as all the family drama has resolved itself and she can deal with her flooded house all on her own.

J
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« Reply #16 on: February 16, 2018, 05:19:07 PM »

it sounds like it went reasonably enough on your end. you steered clear of engaging or debates.

im so sorry to hear about your dad Jeffree. i went through it recently myself, and i know how extraordinarily difficult and painful it is.

take good care of yourself, and lean on us here.
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« Reply #17 on: February 17, 2018, 06:43:38 AM »

Jeffree, I’m sorry about your Dad. How are you doing with it? I have to be honest. Reading the exchange between you and your ex p****d me off. It made my head spin. I guess I’m not to the point where I can differentiate between having a mental illness and simply being a selfish a*****e. I’m sorry that you have to deal with that crap. I can relate to you a bit on this. Both of my parents passed in 2010. I didn’t have a good relationship with them, and when they passed it really messed me up because I felt that my closure died with them. I’ll spare the details. Anyway, I ended up in counseling over it, and I included my ex before this ex in the counseling because my grief was having a negative affect on our relationship. The T asked her how she felt about the way my parent’s passing was affecting me. Her response? “I wish he’d just get over it.” I thought the T’s jaw was going to hit the floor. It’s unreal how they can take our most personal struggles and victimize themselves. I’m sorry that she hurt you like that. I’m guessing she causes you a great deal of exhaustion anymore. I don’t know you personally, J, but you strike me as a very strong and resilient person. You’re a great help on this site, and I’d like to thank you for sharing and for the support that you offer.
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« Reply #18 on: February 17, 2018, 07:36:32 AM »

I'm sorry about your dad Jeffree.  And sorry you're dealing with this craziness. You handled it very well.
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« Reply #19 on: February 17, 2018, 05:57:15 PM »

JNChell/Seen,

Thanks for the share and support. I'm Ok for the most part. It hits me in the face sometimes, but overall I got to spend a lot of extra time with my Dad the past couple of years as his apt 3 hrs away from where I live was my refuge when STBx was at her worst, or I just wanted to get away from her when she wasn't even being hell on Earth. I had started out sleeping on a blow-up mattress there, and he eventually bought a Murphy bed for the junior bedroom. Funny how things work out. I was able to be there with him and for him so much more than I would have been if my STBx had treated me better.

Her antics the night before my dad's memorial didn't even phase me. She means nothing to me anymore, actually she means nothing but bad news to me and I steer clear of her. Plus, I'm out of the caring about her wellbeing business and so much more focused on moving myself and my life forward that anything she does is a drop in the bucket.

I am sorry about the losses of your parents. I'm not too close with my mom, so I know what a confusing mess that can be.

J
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« Reply #20 on: February 19, 2018, 09:13:51 AM »

  <SIGH>

So, there I was minding my own business innocently cleaning my kitchen from top to bottom yesterday when all of the sudden this SUV with PA plates drives up my driveway. My first thought is, "Oh, no. Could this be her unannounced again?"

Yup! It was the whirling dervish herself in a different car than she'd had the past few weeks. I just went right on cleaning.

She heads into the house then up to the bathroom, then comes downstairs to say the yellow I painted the panels of the bathroom sink looks good and was a nice touch.

Then she tells me she needs a ride to the airport. SD21 was supposed to do it, but she went away for the weekend and they had a fight last week. So I don't know what the deal was there. SD21 had stopped in the night before and didn't mention anything.

So we talked a bit about this industry guy who died, some of the times I spent with him, arrangements, etc. I asked her her opinion on the next and final color for the upstairs hallway, since I was debating between two ideas.

Then she proceeds to weigh her luggage, go upstairs, TAKES A SHOWER, comes down in nothing but a towel to grab her clothes. Hunh?

Anyhoo, OK... .I can give her a ride. She offered to pay. I said that wasn't necessary. (Airport is 8 minutes from where I live.) I dropped her off, and she gave me an obligatory hug.

Yes... .I know. She deserves none of this from me and could be up to anything. I have no friggin' idea what the hell is going on. Why she couldn't just drive herself and pay for LT parking, I don't know. Why she couldn't have showered anywhere else and gotten ready there is beyond me.

It's really not worth figuring out, because there really are no answers and asking will only cause more trouble than it's worth. I continue to get my house ready for sale and keep it up in a nice, orderly manner, and do what I need to do for me.

I take neither solace nor joy out of what seems to be her inability to move forward with what she set in motion by moving out. I, on the other hand, will continue to move my life forward.

BTW, I did have a couple of risque dreams of her last night. That's about a first in I can't remember how long.

J


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