Need suggestions on what parenting will look like after divorce

[polaris9]

My stbxw is uBPD.  We have two children D9 and D15.  D15 has a neurological disorder that is on the Autism Spectrum and needs a lot of attention - she needs help for dressing, feeding, bathroom, etc.  She is also not very comfortable in unfamiliar surroundings and it is hard to take her out to do regular chores like shopping,e tc.  We have two full time nannies during the day - essentially one for each child.  We have a babysitter 5 days per week from 3:00pm-9:00pm for D15.  We also have babysitters 3-4 nights per week and 1 or 2 days on the weekend for D9.  So we have at least one person helping with childcare from 7:15am to 9:00pm on weekdays.  All of this help was hired by my wife as (my theory) she was unable to cope with handling the children as she doesn't work or have any real duties outside of the house.  This was required more when the children were younger but is now, at least IMHO, excessive.

We are moving towards a divorce and my lawyer said that I have to think about what I want living arrangements to look like in the future.  One idea is that one of us moves into a new house in the same neighbourhood and we alternate the children spending one week with me and one week with mom.  Being in the same neighbourhood facilitates the school situation.  That might be tough on D15 at first but I think she could adapt to having two homes, and I think it might be good to have her get used to a different environment.

Are there any other creative solutions to solving this issue?  They are with Mom after school until 7:00 and then come to my place?  Anything else?

I think it is obvious that a mediator or judge would realize that my wife has mental health issues.  But even at that she would likely get a fair amount of time with the children, especially with all of the nannies, etc.  But I would like to start cutting down on the caregivers as (1) I don't think they are necessary as often D9 is playing on the iPad or computer while her babysitter is doing the same, and (2) it is expensive.

I am between jobs right now, but assuming a get a new job similar to my old position I may have to do some travelling from time to time so I may be away from home a few days each month. 

[formflier]

Is there a T or doctor involved in D15s life?  I'd go there first for an opinion.  Be ready to get a second opinion as well.  I generally agree that kids (even ones with disabilities) should be pushed more as they grow up, so they can be the best they can be, however there are some disorders where "pushing" really is counterproductive.

Understand that aspect first and be able to back it up... .airtight. 

FF

[flourdust]

This is a complicated situation. I think it's more common to have a 50/50 schedule have more swaps than week on/week off, to prevent having the kids separated from one parent for a week. But, with your kid's special needs, that type of schedule might be too disruptive. It sounds like your wife would fight you on reducing the amount of hired support you have. And if you are interested in reducing her time from 50%, then an evaluation of her fitness to parent is essential.

So... .the bottom line is that I'm recommending you hire a custody evaluator. This is a neutral specialist who will interview both parents and the kids, observe you in your home, look at evidence presented to support any custody plan you want, interview your health care specialists, nannies, teachers, etc., and request psychological evaluations if needed. The evaluator will produce a written report with a recommended parenting plan.

[polaris9]

There isn't really a consistent therapist or doctor that sees D15.

I agree that we need a custody evaluator. 

I am not comfortable with my stbxw being with the kids overnight as she also has an alcohol abuse problem.  Later in the evening there is a good chance that she is too intoxicated to drive so I don't think she should be the primary caregiver for the kids overnight.  But I don't want to then have a nanny 24x7 because she has mental health and substance abuse issues.

[formflier]

There isn't really a consistent therapist or doctor that sees D15.
 

I would find a way to change this... .and make sure it appears to the court and world that YOU are pushing for this.

Court like parents that get over what they "want" and focus on what the kids "need".

Document the alcohol stuff.  I realize that you don't "want" a nanny there, but you could "concede" on that in front of the court for the benefit of you kids development... .it's good for them spend time with both parents.  Since this parent can't drive in the evening due to alcohol we have a nanny there for safety.

Now the alcohol issue has been introduced... .perhaps it can be dealt with separately.

Thoughts?  Make it about the kid... .

FF

[polaris9]

Thanks - any ideas on how to document the alcohol?  It could come out with an evaluator as the nannies see this but they may be hesitant to say anything as they are in a difficult spot. But confidentially to an evaluator they may be more forthcoming with what they see.

Really I want stbxw to get treatment for mental health and alcoholism and then I don’t mind more of a traditional 50-50 split.

There will likely continue to be nannies from 0700-2100 on weekdays when she has the kids. The issue is more overnight. She wouldn’t be driving but is it a good idea to have her as the caregiver when she is in this state. She rarely gets falling down drunk but many nights she will polish off a full bottle of wine.

What would a 50-50 schedule that has more frequent hand-overs look like? Alternating day by day?  Two days on, two days off?

[formflier]

Thanks - any ideas on how to document the alcohol? 

Have their been any "incidents"? 

Offhand, I have no idea how to document it. 

In your custody docs you could put in there that when either one of you are caregivers there is ZERO alcohol use.  You can also write in a testing method... .one of those blow meters or something... handheld.

She might buck up, which then begs the question why.

Still... courts tend to give people the "benefit of the doubt"... .if there are no incidents, then I could see a reasonable judge thinking the other person is being controlling. 

Perhaps your L has experience or ideas.

I DO see you point of view and agree with it... .however, presenting it to the court in a dispassionate and factual... provable way, does seem like a hard thing to sort out.

FF

[ForeverDad]

Paying for multiple caregivers or sitters is expensive, no way around that.  While you may not be unemployed for long, you have to address the short term issues as well as the long term issues.  After all, divorce when a PD is involved is lengthy and expensive too.

Living in the same area is a good idea, same schools, simpler exchanges.  (But don't buy the house next door or across the street, you do need enough distance apart so she doesn't feel your home is hers too.)  However, is that affordable?  If your home is in an expensive area you may need to sell it and find two less expensive homes.  Otherwise if she gets the current home your ex will expect you to subsidize her there.

About 50/50... .You have outlined your concerns about your spouse's parenting ability.  Many areas view 50/50 as each parent getting half the overnights.  Since you have a concern about that, then you need to seek majority time.  Yes, you can have a modified schedule where she gets most workday afternoons, but beware of equal-time attempts.  That can be risky.  However, you can blur the lines by having yourself designated Decision Maker or Tie Breaker in custody issues.  What that does is whenever a custody impasse arises, you can proceed as appropriate.  So instead of you having to go to court or mediation before doing anything, it's up to her to go to court or mediation afterward.

Additionally, women often get the default unwritten preference at court despite claims of judicial impartiality.  (Mine sure did!)  So if you seek down-the-middle equality, there is risk court will likely start out by siding with Mother in future cases.

Sadly, we see the logic with all our requests to court.  We try to be fair.  But court doesn't try to be fair, it has all sorts of policies, procedures, case law, etc that too often leaves Fathers (1) limited in parenting and (2) paying all the bills.  That's why you need to be proactive, assertive and a problem solver.  Same for your lawyer.

[flourdust]

It's not likely that you'll get to the point where you are presenting evidence of alcohol abuse to the judge. I'd expect an order for a custody evaluator (including possibly a drug screening) to be given at that point, if you are unable to get a custody evaluator ordered beforehand.

You'll be interviewed by the CE and given the opportunity to present evidence to support your desired parenting plan. The CE will want to know about drug and alcohol use, domestic violence, etc. You can provide any documentation you have or can create -- a journal of her drinking, any drunk driving citations, letters from friends who have observed the alcohol use. If she's drunk in front of the nannies, their testimony will be pretty powerful.

[livednlearned]

Is your goal to get primary custody (eventually) and have the kids more?

any ideas on how to document the alcohol?  It could come out with an evaluator as the nannies see this but they may be hesitant to say anything as they are in a difficult spot. But confidentially to an evaluator they may be more forthcoming with what they see.

My ex could polish off a bottle of wine in a night, too. Often more than that. He loved to mix things up with pills, too, which was always fun.

I documented the alcohol (and pharma) consumption in a spreadsheet, but it was mostly used as a prop. Meaning, my L referenced it a lot, and talked about doing a hair test if the other L needed additional evidence. So, basically it was used as leverage.

A lot of the negotiation and litigation that goes on amounts to theater, so in some ways, alcohol-documentation-as-prop was worth it.

If you can call anything to do with family law court worth it.

Then, we did a deposition. It was during that process that my ex said he wasn't an alcoholic because he even though he drank a lot, he quit drinking "all the time" and as recently as the week prior. Except, wait! He remembered that he had a drink the night before.

It helped that my L came in with a large 3-ring binder with email documentation. That was also used as a prop, to signal to the other L that the he-said, she-said was more like she-said, and she has evidence.

Someone who has a true alcohol problem self-deals in truthifying to a degree that can come across as truly absurd. In that regard, depositions can be very illuminating. I didn't do a custody evaluation (we had a parenting coordinator, which functioned like a third-party professional watching our interactions, and was helpful).

Our custody order said that n/BPDx could not drink before or during visitation. And of course, he did. And there's no way to enforce it, anyway. It was basically leverage for when he did drink to disastrous effect. Fortunately for everyone involved, when my ex drank, he liked to send me emails. He's a lawyer and I think he got the part about document everything, except he confused who he was supposed to be documenting.

What might be effective in your case is to get a third-party professional to advise that the child care can safely be minimized to x hours. Then, make the argument that financially you can do something in the interest of the kids, like move nearby. But to do that, you can't reasonably afford to provide child care and alimony and child support. So something has to go. Either less alimony or less child care.

Ideally, you want to give the courts (and her) two options that are both favorable to you. Then let her choose. And be able to back both choices up with third-party professional input, as much as you can.

In addition to her desire to make sure her needs are met, she will also want to feel like she won something. That might make it less likely that she will appeal or some other kind of nonsense that keeps the litigation going.

Also, I hope you don't mind me saying this, but it sounds like you might be financially doing ok. I think my court treated alcohol abuse in families with means like it was a footnote. I don't know if it's because they see much worse, or what. Maybe if there is a DUI you can get them to bat an eye. But passing out nightly at 7pm cradling an empty bottle of wine? A judge might be thinking, hey, it's legal and she's doing it at home. No crime there.

Instead, maybe tell it like it's just part of the story about her challenges taking care of the kids. She likes to drink and it interferes with her ability to care for the kids. Maybe suggest a trial period where you dial down the child care, and she takes a wino break, and then sit back with a bucket of popcorn to see how things play out.

If you treat the judge like a colleague who is helping you solve a problem, and you've done the work to put together some solutions that are super reasonable, you are more likely to turn the judge into an ally, even if he or she still treats you like a numpkin in court. That's because favoritism is cause to overturn on appeal.

I began to look at a good judge scolding as a sign I was going to get what I came to court for.

How did things go with the condo she wanted to purchase? Or am I confusing your story with someone else... .

[Panda39]

Can I ask what your parenting time is with your kids?  What does it look like?  Frankly, from reading this post (and I'm sure there is more story than just what is here) it doesn't sound like either of you are parenting... .it sounds like a lot has been delegated to other people.

What would the judge see when looking your direction?

Panda39

[formflier]

What would the judge see when looking your direction?
 

I would document the time YOU spend hands on, no employees or others, being a parent. I would make sure you emails to your wife reflect a desire to increase YOUR hands on time.

I would make sure there is a plan/pathway in place for you to take on even more during divorce settlements.

You want the judge to be able to look back through time and "see" and understand that you are a hands on parent, involved and are pushing for more.

That will set up for a good shot to be the "deciding" or "tie breaking" parent.

FF

[polaris9]

Thanks for all of the responses folks, there is a lot to digest.

In terms of the condo, she won’t tell me exactly what the current state is but I am not pushing it for now as we are working on our financial disclosure and it will come out soon. She took enough from our bank accounts before I shut off access to pay the deposit and the condo is still under construction and won’t be down until next summer it autumn. But I think she basically owns it so that will be hers in the division of property but there isn’t much net equity - just the deposit.

Regarding how much parenting do either of us do -that’s a good question!  During the week neither of us do a lot with d15 as she has someone with her until 9. After that we somewhat equally share things. On the weekend we don’t have caregivers for her and I do much more than stbxw, although she would dispute that. I get d15 up, give her medication, get her dressed and take her to the bathroom through the day. I spend some time with her during the day and occasionally take her out. I then give her dinner and get her ready for bed.

During the week I would like to spend more time with d15 but this has been tricky as it would often set my stbxw off on one of her moods so I have to be careful.

With d9 we tend to do more. My wife takes her to her dance and gymnastics (total she f 3nights per week) most of the time. I generally help her with her homework when she has some. I get her ready for bed and play with her later in the evenings. But several nights per week she has a sitter and she normally has the sitter on both Sat and Sun.

I would like to take on more duties and I don’t like that my wife has kept adding on caregivers- I don’t feel they are positive to the family dynamic as we haven’t had as much time as just the family. But when I have brought this up in the past it would escalate into heavy conflict as is often the case when dealing with a pwBPD.

On the alcohol - my wife hasn’t had a DUI charge but alcohol was an issue when she was arrested for DV and she also assaulted a police officer at the time. I don’t know how she got off as lightly as she did. She often will polish off an entire bottle of wine or more, but she rarely gets obviously intoxicated. And since we have the resources to hire help this may not be a big issue to the courts. I will start keeping a spreadsheet to document.

Once again thanks for the help everyone. She started getting hostile and cursing at me today but it is much less stressful when you have made the decision to split.  My lawyer says that I definitely should not leave, but I don’t want the status quo of us living together to continue for too long. After the new year we may ramp things up and try to get a court order. We have enough in assets so that we one party could buy the other out on our existing house and then that party could buy another house for the same value. There hasn’t been a mortgage on the house for many years so it is pretty much free and clear except for a HELOC with a small LTV.

[LegioXX Victrix]

Parenting after a divorce... .oh man.

All i can say I was lucky i have had a court enforced no contact order between my dxBPDw and the kids.

There a very serious concerns that the kids therapists have raised that have effectively blocked the mother access... to include a hx of poly substance abuse, DV, and non-compliance with court ordered treatment.

All i can say is education, a good qualified therapist and know the custody laws in your state backwards and forward.

[polaris9]

Surely I don't want my wife block from having access to our daughters.  She needs help but in most ways is a good mother and her children love and need her and should be with her on a regular basis. 

But some of her actions are detrimental to the children and I need to get these rectified before they cause more permanent damage to the children, especially D9.  And she has lashed out at everyone close to her with the exception to the children.  I really hope that exception always remains but I worry that it may not when D9 becomes an independent teenager who will do things to antagonize her parents that would exasperate even the most well-balanced person, never mind a pwBPD.  Or when she no longer has me around as a Whipping Post.

[Panda39]

How do you ideally envision parenting your children once you are divorced?

But some of her actions are detrimental to the children and I need to get these rectified before they cause more permanent damage to the children, especially D9.  And she has lashed out at everyone close to her with the exception to the children.  I really hope that exception always remains but I worry that it may not when D9 becomes an independent teenager who will do things to antagonize her parents that would exasperate even the most well-balanced person, never mind a pwBPD.  Or when she no longer has me around as a Whipping Post.

Just because you keep your wife's wrath pointed your direction "Whipping Post", does not mean that her behavior and yours are not affecting your children.

I'm on these boards because my SO has an uBPDxw but I share much in common with the members here myself having come from a co-dependent alcoholic marriage.  I too thought I was protecting my son from his father's behaviors by keeping them directed at me.  Being directed at me did not hide the dysfunctional dance that both his father and I were participating in.  My son today has social anxiety issues, does not model his dad's substance abuse, but what about co-dependence did he learn from me? It remains to be seen.  By leaving my marriage my son also learned some things too, and his father finally hit rock bottom and has been sober the last 5 years.  My son lived the dysfunction, saw that people can choose to change, and saw both of his parents living happier healthier lives apart.

My point is don't assume that by you being the "whipping post" you protect your kids from the dysfunction in your household or hides their mother's behaviors from them.

Panda39

[ForeverDad]

My point is don't assume that by you being the "whipping post" you protect your kids from the dysfunction in your household or hides their mother's behaviors from them.

I agree, being the Whipping Boy is not a good solution.  And "the walls have ears."  If the children are living around dysfunction, they are at high risk to feel familiar, even comfortable, with it.  Remember the old story about placing a frog into hot water (it jumps out) or warming water (it cooks)?  Who will they choose for their relationship partners when they're grown?  All too likely it will be someone like (1) Dad or (2) Mom.  What if neither example is optimal?  If your spouse is unwilling to change, as is the case thus far, it's up to you to choose your options.