"Single" BPD father - clingy parenting style

[Plaidfly]

  everyone,
I would very much appreciate some tips and ideas from those in the know, perhaps find someone who experienced similar issues.

I am a divorced mum of two older kids who live in our shared apartment with me and my exH moving in and out - swapping. We have a very amicable and peaceful relationship, we help each other out and communicate the kids issued daily.

I have also been living for two years with a man who - to cut the talk short - has evidently BPD. Even before he met me, his exwife asked him to attend therapy which he has been doing for over two years now. However, the therapist thought he is dealing with depression... .I have persuased my partner lately to tell him that his GF thinks he is borderline. The therapist apparently thought about it and came to a conclusion this is possible but I have no idea if he is using specific therapy for BPD since. My partner also visits a psychiatrist and is taking some citalopramum type medication. However, when feeling overwhelmed (like when I attend work Xmas party which was long planned, he knew all about it and seemed to accept it), he doses himself with lexaurin and is very unstable psychologically/healthwise  for a few days after that :-(

My question concerns his 4year old D. When I met him, his wife had left him and he was not seeing his D at all.  Then after a long fight and big financial loses, he secured a shared custody of his daughter. One week with mum, one with daddy. When I met his daughter she was turning three, she had her ways but she was a nice cuddly kid. Though the court endorsed parents' agreement on the custody, both parents clearly play the game " I am better than mummy/daddy, you are better off with me". Whenever he has his rages or feels I have let him down like by saying something mild about his parenting, or suggesting I will be joining them later than planned, i.e. typical clingy issues and fear of abandonment, he get incredibly attached to his D and plays "me and you against the whole world". What has happened over the year and a half is that the girl has become manipulative, dominant little brat (sorry) who can do anything, rules everything. She likes me and we have a good relationship because as a rule I do not dispcipline. If I do not like her behaviour, I simply walk out on her. My partner is happy to leave her with me for hours to entertain her, while he is playing computer  games. The girl is allowed to tell me off and daddy tells her nothing. If I try, very gently, to explain why it not good for her to rule our lives, our sleeping arrangements etc., he gets very angry or defensive and clings to his daughter even more. Sadly the girl's mum while a lovely woman is also a psychiatric patient and he will never ever leave his daughter in her custody or expand the number of days with mum although the girl would clearly love to. And the more she wants to be with her mum, the more he fits into what she wants and feeds her sweets etc.

I love my partner, I want to help him but as a mum myself I hate this situation and cannot see a way of it. I have left him once and came back because he overdosed on psychiatric drugs just before having the week with his daughter and I ended up basically mothering her whole week while Daddy recovered. I need to protect my kids and my time with them which is encrouched upon by his needs and the needs of his kid :-( but I also by now feel responsible for her. He will find it difficult to find somebody else who would accept him with his negativism, moods, negativism, rages and a verřy spoilt and over-protected daughter like that.

Has anybody here had to manage something like that? Can a BPD parent "be told"? Is there a way to set not just rules for his behaviour tome (got that sort of) but to his daughter too? Thank you for your thoughts.

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[GeekyGirl]

Hi Plaidfly! 

Welcome. My heart breaks for your partner's daughter, and I can see the dilemma you're working through. Are you looking for perspective from the child of a BPD parent, or for advice from other partners of people with BPD (pwBPD)? That will help us give you the right kind of advice.

Has anybody here had to manage something like that? Can a BPD parent "be told"? Is there a way to set not just rules for his behaviour tome (got that sort of) but to his daughter too? Thank you for your thoughts.

I can only answer from the perspective of someone who grew up with a mother with BPD--most often they cannot "be told," but some can change their behavior. If you do decide to confront him about his behavior, proceed with caution. What are you hoping would happen if/when you do try to change his behavior? How can you work with him (and possibly his doctor)?

Do you have a support system for yourself and your needs? How is this affecting your children and your relationship with them? If you haven't already, I'd suggest you visit the board for folks with partners with BPD, as they can give you their perspective as well: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?board=6.0.

Thank you for posting--I guarantee that you'll find some answers and good advice on this site.

[Plaidfly]

Hi Plaidfly! 

Welcome. My heart breaks for your partner's daughter, and I can see the dilemma you're working through. Are you looking for perspective from the child of a BPD parent, or for advice from other partners of people with BPD (pwBPD)? That will help us give you the right kind of advice.

Hello, I will certainly have a look at the linked board. Just the titles of each thread are like quotes from my life (extreme black-white thinking, constant attacks, boundaries and manipulation, constant criticism, devaluating me... .I could carry on).

And to answer some of you questions: I cannot talk to his doctor and I am only happy he actually mentioned to his therapist who surely had no clue of what he is actually dealing with. Support for myself? No, I do not share what is happening behind the door with anyone else, I do not want anybody to think worse of him than they already do. In terms of my kids, I take my long-term seriously ill daughter with me to his/our place when I am in charge of my kids and my son is at scout trip. My partner is wonderful with her, he can make her laugh and relax which I hugely appreciate. But it has already happened several times that he went into a rage while she was with us. She witnessed our peaceful and friendly divorce, there was never a raised voice in our home and this comes as a serious shock and she finds it very strange and frightening. I should add that he has control over his behaviour when his D is with us which I actually find upsetting. That means he can control the rage but only in front of someone who actually really matters to him.

But to answer the crucial question what sort of perspective I am looking for... .I wonder. I suspect advice from other parents. I did read up on the parent with BPD issue and they seemed to decribe different characteristic than suffocating with love, no disciplining, etc. In this respect, my borderliner breaks the mould

Thank you very much again for your kind response - I probably posted on the wrong board but I intend to familirize myself with this site, at least for the time that I manage to cope with all these "life lessons"

[Sunfl0wer]

Oh man, you are describing the dynamic of my ex and I and his daughter.
I am afraid I am so cynical on this topic that I maybe should not even post.
My ex was enmeshed with his D.  I loved her dearly, but he got jealous of our relationship and would get competitive with me.  If she looked like she was having fun with me, he would try to divert her attention to him and her or would try to cause drama to distract her and kill the mood.  If I took her to a sporting event, then he would frantically cancel his previous plans, show up so she would end up driving home with him instead of me.  His daughter HAD to be the center of his universe.  The more independence she was showing, the more threatened he felt in losing her adoration, so he would sabotagge her.  He would make her miss the bus just so he could save the day and spend time driving her to school.

I can go on and on over the covert stuff he did to maintain this “special” dynamic between them both... .but it makes me sick to think of and was so disturbing to me.

Like you, I was intentional to try to not be a disiplinarian in her life.  Yet he failed in having age appropriate expectations... .and bordered on infantilizing behaviors.

My own son is disabled so does need help with lots.  Ex saw this as my kid getting “special treatment” so he was also competitive with this and tried giving his daughter even more special treatment than my son.

The way it played out was that the more I challenged his dynamic, the more he “escaped” adult relational dynamics for the security of the adoration of a child... .which he felt was more unconditional than our adult love.

We even had a therapist trying to point out in small increments that he should expect more of her.  He eventually stopped attending this one.  The next therapist actually reinforced to him that his relationship with his daughter and deciding for her comes first, not our partnership... .so ex kept making decisions that put walls between us, but clung to his child.

I would have supported things about their relationship had I felt he was assisting her to become a healthy fulfilled adult.  The issue was his behaviors were infantilizing and enabling her to become dependent on him to meet his own emotional/personal needs.  Imo, this is grossly inappropriate and up there with emotional incest.

So yea, that is my cynnical perspective so take it fwiw... .
We broke up because as his child was becoming more independent, he was becoming more anxious and clingy and getting ruled and abused by her.  I had to set some safety boundaries for me and my own child.  This clashed greatly.  He felt he was doing everything in his life like some self sacrificing martyr “for my daughter who needs me.”  Yet, way I saw it was he was disabling that child.

He eventually felt that my differing opinions meant I “was against him and against her.” I was not.  I just had a different way in mind of parenting which includes seeing a child as an individual with their own thoughts, feelings and interests with zero responsibility to meet adult emotional needs.

I read a lot on Craig Childress and parental alienation.  That is what was happening as his exW alienated him from his child.  Yet, then that is what happened as he then did the same to me and alienated her from me.  It was all so traumatic for me and my own son.

Ps.  I do not consider my ex BPD but rather NPDtraits and a mix of DPD/BPD traits.  He was fully functioning/stable in life, and his dysfunctional dynamics only showed up in our household mostly... .his most intimate relationships.  Not so much at work and outside family.

Pps

I should add that he has control over his behaviour when his D is with us which I actually find upsetting. That means he can control the rage but only in front of someone who actually really matters to him.

exact same issue.  My ex did this and it pissed me off!

Side note... .He seemed to only be able to maintain one “special” attachment at a time.  He had trouble loving us at the same time.  Imo, I love family stuff and feel greater shared love in the room.  But he felt competitive like he could only love one at a time.  So he took turns.  Came to me if he felt inept with her.  Went to her if we were in an argument.  If we were hanging as a group/family, he would pick one of us to cling to during that time and almost seem to paint thenother of us black for that time or tune the other out kinda shunning.

[Plaidfly]

I am amazed, that is just so alike!
The infantilisation - she cannot go sleep herself, he has to sing to her every day for an hour or longer, she cannot sleep in another room, she has to be entertained in car, tickled, she cannot tidy after herself, she is just too small - it is absolutely the same.

And the alternation of affection, absolutely. He is also fully-functional, holds a high job, though he has conflicts with colleages, he is thoroughly nasty to me only (not his D). And if he decides I am evil, he will tell his D not to come to me, that I am leaving them, that I dont like them etc.

Everything has to adjust to his D, my sick daughter is the "slow" one, the nuisance and says he does not want his D to be like mine... .but not at all times, only when he is very unstable.

Very very similar experience.

May I ask what brought the relationship to a final end? I can see you are refering to him as ex. I still keep on fighting for the good moments that really still are there.

One way or another, thank you for responding!

[Sunfl0wer]

The infantilisation - she cannot go sleep herself, he has to sing to her every day for an hour or longer, she cannot sleep in another room, she has to be entertained in car, tickled, she cannot tidy after herself, she is just too small - it is absolutely the same.

Oh gosh, yup!  He had to make a game and fun of everything.  He made sound effects as she tossed stuff in the washer because he needed to be involved in all her “successes.”  He couldn’t simply allow her to be capable of performing tasks.  He NEEDED to involve himself somehow.  I was not about what she needed, but how he needed his ego constantly stroked.  It was all about her being his “narcissistic supply.”  He had no inner self worth.  He used her “adoration” to feel ok as a person.  If she was upset, disappointed, etc, he simply could not tolerate being ok with that.  He insisted on  “repairing” her emotions for his own emotional regulation and self worth issues.  Yup, so he did stuff like tickling her, rough playing, or promising her special things when she didn't appear cheery and adoring him.

If we were driving and chatting away…  He had abandonment issues with her.  He HAD to keep asking her every 10 mins if she was ok and such because he felt abandoned by her to be there and not engaging with him.  He would worry that she was not liking him.  (she was 13 and content with gaming and texting a friend)

She was not treated like a person with her own feelings and such.  She was an object for him to feel someone unconditionally loved and adored him.

So date nights were hard.  He acted like he was cheating on her and I could see the guilt on his face as he reluctantly agreed to date me again due to our therapist admonishing him that his child NEEDED to see us behave as a couple for her own development, and so he went on date night “for the sake of his daughter.”  Everything was for the sake of her I soon realized.  I now think even pairing with me was to help her have a dual parent household because his exW had put him down for being a single parent household so I feel his pairing with me was internal pressure to provide more for his child.  (I do believe he also loved me, however, his main drive in life was to keep her the center of everyone’s universe as much as he could.)  I guess this is also called “the golden child.”

I would need a book bigger than the bible to gripe about the issues with lack of discipline.  Won’t even go there.

May I ask what brought the relationship to a final end? I can see you are refering to him as ex. I still keep on fighting for the good moments that really still are there.

Our partnership was constantly in competition with his “in love” with his child.  He canceled things all the time “for her.”  My own son and I in hospital readying him for exploratory procedures… I was devastated. I often did not know if my son would make it out not paralyzed or some other huge debilitating issue.  Ex came to the ER, brought me panties and a toothbrush then told me he was on his way out as his D left her science homework till last min and they needed to return home to do it.  I was astounded he was not going to stay with us!

I had been by his side as she manipulated her way into a psych facility with false stuff to get there, lying that she was hallucinating and such... .to play mom and dad’s emotions.  (I stayed to support him through the whole process, every counseling session, court, every lawyer meeting, etc.)  Her own therapist let us know that she planned this months in advance and this was very strategic on her part.  :) clearly has antisocial personality disorder.  She began making plans to harm us and we found evidence of stuff she researched to plan this.  She googled how to kill undetected with poisons/chemicals and was carrying stuff in her purse with her and researched locations to find certain poisons. We found messages of her wanting to kill us, yet she never acted angry at us much. I put my foot down and said she could no longer come visit us at the house as I felt she would poison us... .besides my son and I already having chronic health issues and many allergies… it would be easy to “unintentionally” harm us with regular foods... .he would simply believe it was all an accident if one of us got sick.  (she was "unusual" with the pets but dad did not see this.  Her lack of empathy was apparent.)

He flipped out over feeling I was shunning her.
Long story short.
So there was a “stand off” between us.
It all went down hill from there.
He had no interest in my safety or my son’s or even his own.  He thought I was unfairly judging her and being mean to her, not giving her a chance, not being fair, treating my own son better, etc.  He put his head in the sand and painted me black and told himself that leaving me, “was for his daughter.”  -of course

I was willing to work with him, even with her issues.  Yet only if we worked as partners to ensure her psychiatric care and the safety of all of us in our family.  He resisted and instead stating she was not appearing symptomatic anymore.  Sure she wasn’t appearing that way as she was strategically planning harming us.

Yup
My loong story.  

[Plaidfly]

It is so sad for me... .you are basically describing my partner, all the entertaining, all the checking on her emotions etc. It is like... .it is not him, his nature, it is as if all this behaviour to his daughter was actually the diagnosis

My partner's  daugter is five and she is just egotistical and spoilt. So far no other issues. What you are describing is horrific but the problem is if the girl stays in his care only and in the care of his also psycotic exwife... .she might be a problem. That is part of my concern, that iI am trying to provide normal attitude and also trying to show what a "normal" relationship looks like.

Thanks for sharing your experience with me, I have a lot to think about :-(

[Sunfl0wer]

Hope things are going well for you.

I had this marked “unread” as I wanted to return to state one last thing.

During the beginning of all this is my relationship, I put a lot of focus on who I thought “was the problem.”  I was mad at that child’s mom.  I was worried for that child... .endlessly.  The crisis happening was non stop.  I never had a good chance to get my footing.  We were never without a month of non crisis from the exW/mom of the child.

Looking back with clearer 20/20 hindsight... .

I now see that our bond between us was tied into this drama.  We were effectively creating a trauma bond and the foundation of our connection was built on this strength that brought us together because of the baggage he brought to the relationship.  Now I know... .this is a shaky way to lay foundation.

What I also didn’t realize was that all this drama was causing me to not see the flaws in our relationship.  I associated this drama as proof of him and I being so darn strong.  Yet what was happening was learning who we were as a couple was a bit on hold, or just not in a natural context for a couple.  Our focus was always on putting out fires vs developing our relationship.  So I was blinded to our flaws because all this drama was so loud that it was not possible to focus on some “obvious” issues that were happening cocurrently. (My own son was being neglected and I thought it was ok because this child of his was in crisis and if my son were in crisis then we would turn our attention and resources to him.  My ex could care less about my son tho.  I also was being “self sacrificing” which was really me replaying scriots from early childhood.  Using myself to help heal the situation yet also neglecting my need for ongoing self care.  Being a martyr is not cool either.)

So my point... .
(Sorry if I’m being obtuse)
My point is that I felt once this crisis was behind us... .
We would be wonderful together!
What I didn’t know was that his relationship with his daughter would always be a crisis for him.  He would always catastrophize when his daughter simply needed school supplies.  He would drop everything to prove his devotion to her.

What was happening was... .
This man was not available for an adult partnership.
He was in all this dynamic by fashion.  Because it was where he was comfy.  It is how he wanted his relationship with his daughter.  And if I am honest with myself, I feel comfy often in a “rescuer” position.  (Read on drama triangles if you ave not)

Things for me did not go south because his daughter went nuts.  Nuts... .I could deal with that.
Things went south because this man was not willing to partner with me to help his child.  He was not willing to partner with me on much when there was stress or a third person involved.  He reverted to the safety of his child and his behavior treated her more as his emotional blankie.
I now see... .the man I was dating simply was not capable of enjoying adult love and coping with the idea that adult love comes with expectations, negotiations, disappointments and struggles at times... .alongside the love and committment and such.

All my good intentions in the world did not make him a more capable partner.
Neither did two different therapists.  Neither did getting his daughter stable help the situation... .neither did when his exW backed off.

Looking back... .
I think radical acceptance would have been needed on my part.  Yet, if I had accepted the reality = this man will always parentify his child and treat her more like his emotional love object than his child.  I would have realized that would not work for me.  I cannot be intimate with a man who has such a perverse attachment to a child... .and such an immature attachment need.  I cannot provide the type of child love he wanted.  I would always have had expectations of a mature love dynamic.  We would never feel our needs being ultimately met by one another.