Running away for the holidays

[prof]

Hi everyone,

It's been a few months since I've posted. Everything was going great with uBPDw for the most part after a psych med change at the end of the summer.  (This summer was a doozy - check my post history.)

This afternoon, she asked me to go buy cigarettes.  She quit a month or so ago, and I told her no.  I wasn't going to be complicit any more - she already has a lung disease that has taken away her flute career.  If she wanted to buy cigarettes, then she was welcome to buy them herself.  She refused. She has scars from her disease (and picking) on her face, so she is ashamed to leave the house without lots of makeup.

Anyway, she turned everything around on me, claiming that I was killing her with my cooking and inability to clean the house . After  she started swearing at me, I told her that I was going to another room for a while to let things settle down.

After a while. S4 came in and wanted me to help him draw a picture. As I was gathering his crayons, uBPDw started talking to me again.  Her voice quickly began to raise, and so I told her I was going to the other room again.

She followed me. I asked her to leave. She wouldn't. I asked her to let me leave
 She wouldn't and stood in the doorway, blocking me.  So I sat down and tried to stay calm while she raged at me.

I didn't respond. She threw a bunch of Christmas lights at my head. She threw my Christmas presents at me, and later opened them in front of me.  She grabbed my arm, sinking her nails into my skin.  She pushed me.  She hit me.  She started packing things to go to her stepmom's house out of state.

I never responded, except to occasionally remind her that I wanted a little time alone.

She finally asked me to leave. As I was grabbing my things, she repeatedly pushed me.

I'm driving to my dad's, several states away. S4 is with her.

We'll see where this goes.

[formflier]

Have you thought through the wisdom of leaving S4 there?  Is that something to stop and have a couple cups of coffee and think about?

FF

[pearlsw]

Hi prof,

I am not in such a good state myself currently so I am not sure how wise I can be at the moment. What I can offer is a lot of compassion and sympathy that this happened to you. How terribly sad!

I can attest that smoker's can be some of the worst addicts to deal with and I've known many people with various drug problems. I guess this and her feeling unable to go and get them herself set her off? What misery.

Will you be able to get some peace at your dad's out of state?  Is she able to care for S4 alone?

wishing you peace, pearlsw. 

[formflier]

Prof,

Hey buddy!   

We can be honest here.

No need to tell your wife where you went or what your intentions were.  You can say you spent the night somewhere... hotel, car... whatever.  You don't have to prove it.  "You just needed to clear your head" is all you have to say.  Don't justify it.

I would encourage you to consider carefully your options with your son.  Is it the best things to leave him with your wife, especially in the state she was in?  Could going to a shelter with him be better? 

I get it you need space.  I would encourage you to take the space.  Consider that your son may need space as well.

Hang in there.

FF

[prof]

I went back home yesterday.  S4 was supet excited and spent like an hour telling me about his new toys.  uBPDw was understandably livid.  I ended up sleeping in my office at work.

She's doing better today after some rest.  She clearly thinks I am to blame for everything and downplays her behavior as a natural reaction to mine.

I'm pretty sure I'm heading back to thinking that divorce is the best path.

[DaddyBear77]

Hey prof, it's been a long time and I'm glad (and sorry) to see you back, especially under these circumstances.

It's been a few days since you got back home - how are things going? I remember how incredibly hard things were for you when you were last active. It sounds like the calm period has passed, but I'll ask you, is there anything that you found that particularly worked during the calm periods that you can reengage with here?

So other than quitting smoking, is there anything else that changed recently? Is she still taking the same medications? I'm sure you know this, but if you combine the stress and pressures of the holiday with the stresses that come from qutting smoking (must have been a really bad habit to cause the lung issues) - something like this is bound to happen.

But most importantly, how are YOU? What's going on in your life? How have things been with S4? This incident aside, have things been more stable for him?

Let us know how things are going - glad you're back and look forward to hearing more soon.

[prof]

Hey prof, it's been a long time and I'm glad (and sorry) to see you back, especially under these circumstances.

Thanks, DB!  Good to hear from you!

It's been a few days since you got back home - how are things going? I remember how incredibly hard things were for you when you were last active. It sounds like the calm period has passed, but I'll ask you, is there anything that you found that particularly worked during the calm periods that you can reengage with here?

I'm not really sure.  The big change (I think) at the end of the summer was uBPDw switching back to a tried and true psych med.  My T indicated her BPD symptoms may be more due her depression than an actual personality disorder.  And when her depression is under control, things are much nicer.

Her P did actually have her go up on her psych meds shortly before this all happened, so maybe that contributed?

There have been a couple blow-ups since the summer.  One in particular that comes to mind a couple months ago was also in response to me setting a boundary.  The kitty litter was getting especially nasty (thank you foster kittens... .) and I was at work. uBPDw depended I drive home (45 min commute, btw), clean it, then go back to work for a bit, pick S4 (actually S5 now, as of a few days ago) up from school and then come home again.  This was obviously ridiculous -- she could either clean it herself or wait until I get home.  She was livid, but i held my ground.

So other than quitting smoking, is there anything else that changed recently? Is she still taking the same medications? I'm sure you know this, but if you combine the stress and pressures of the holiday with the stresses that come from qutting smoking (must have been a really bad habit to cause the lung issues) - something like this is bound to happen.

I think you hit the nail on the head with the holidays.  She lost her mom a couple months before Christmas two years ago, and we spent last Christmas out of town while she saw a bunch of specialists about her illness.  (I don't believe there's any indication that her smoking caused her illness, but it certainly doesn't help.  One doctor described it as pouring kerosene onto a fire.)

She was looking forward to having a Christmas with just the three of us.  Of course, I ruined that when I left.  I've been extremely apologetic, and ultimately I really regret the decision.  I really should have done as FF suggested and just had a cup of coffee and thought things through before driving four states away to see my dad... .

But most importantly, how are YOU? What's going on in your life? How have things been with S4? This incident aside, have things been more stable for him?

S5's relationship with his mom has improved a ton since the summer.  You may recall my last runaway trip -- the camping trip with him this summer.  He only mentioned her once the entire weekend, and that was to say something like, "Mommy isn't going to catch us," while we were driving there.  Now they play a lot more and he frequently talks about how much he loves her.   Things definitely seem to have improved for him.

I'm still really torn.  Half of me wants to make this work with uBPDw, raise S5, and grow old together.  And the other half wants to start a new (and hopefully far simpler) life without her.

One of my New Year's resolutions is to finally make a decision.

[DaddyBear77]

She was looking forward to having a Christmas with just the three of us.  Of course, I ruined that when I left. I've been extremely apologetic

prof, is that YOU speaking or is that HER speaking? Because I'd say:

She threw a bunch of Christmas lights at my head. She threw my Christmas presents at me, and later opened them in front of me.  She grabbed my arm, sinking her nails into my skin.  She pushed me.  She hit me.  She started packing things to go to her stepmom's house out of state.

... .those all seem like pretty good ways to "ruin" a holiday, too.

In the end, "skipping Christmas" may have been the best thing you could have done. Showing her that the outburst, meanness, and physical assault are things you won't stand for (and won't come back for more of) might just be the kind of message you want to send after all.

When you apologize, what do you apologize for?

Also, when she started packing, what were the circumstances that stopped her from following through? I ask because this has been a common dynamic with my wife, and at first she would pack up and say "I'm going to my mother's house" - I would feel guilty and eventually I'd say "no, that's ok, I'll go to my brothers house / hotel room instead." Neither of us followed through, but in retrospect I kind of wish I'd have just let her do her thing and never offer to leave. I'm not sure if that's what happened with you, too, but that's why I ask the question.

My T indicated her BPD symptoms may be more due her depression than an actual personality disorder.  And when her depression is under control, things are much nicer.

Her P did actually have her go up on her psych meds shortly before this all happened, so maybe that contributed?

I've had a few different Ts make the same observation, and it makes sense. Emotional regulation is probably a lot easier when you're not struggling with co morbid symptoms like depression and anxiety. Some of the very best periods of time I've had with my pwBPD are times when she's taken an anti-anxiety med.
And similar to what you're describing, the absolute WORST time in my pwBPD's life was when her P upped the anti-depression medication too high. I think that, paradoxically, the depression can sometimes HELP regulate things, and when you take it away, it's easier for the other symptoms to take over. If that makes sense.

Half of me wants to make this work with uBPDw, raise S5, and grow old together.  And the other half wants to start a new (and hopefully far simpler) life without her.

One of my New Year's resolutions is to finally make a decision.

As you know, only half of what makes the relationship work is up to you. The other half is out of your hands. It sounds like with the medications, things improved quite a bit. But have there been other changes, like couples therapy or introspective discussions, that would indicate your wife is taking a harder look at the deeper symptoms of her BPD-like traits and taking responsibility for her role in the relationship?

[prof]

prof, is that YOU speaking or is that HER speaking? Because I'd say:... .those all seem like pretty good ways to "ruin" a holiday, too.

Man, DB, you make too much sense!  Yes, it's totally her speaking.

In the end, "skipping Christmas" may have been the best thing you could have done. Showing her that the outburst, meanness, and physical assault are things you won't stand for (and won't come back for more of) might just be the kind of message you want to send after all.

Yes, I suppose that's absolutely the kind of message I want to send.

When you apologize, what do you apologize for?

For leaving her and S5 alone on Christmas.

Also, when she started packing, what were the circumstances that stopped her from following through? I ask because this has been a common dynamic with my wife, and at first she would pack up and say "I'm going to my mother's house" - I would feel guilty and eventually I'd say "no, that's ok, I'll go to my brothers house / hotel room instead." Neither of us followed through, but in retrospect I kind of wish I'd have just let her do her thing and never offer to leave. I'm not sure if that's what happened with you, too, but that's why I ask the question.

The car was packed, and uBPDw and S5 just needed to put on their jackets before they were going to head out.  She came in to the room I was in one last time to talk to me.  She finally said, "You know what, I think you should go instead."  So I did.  (Of course, immediately after it became apparent that I was going to leave, she started trying to get me not to go, including repeatedly pushing me.)

I've had a few different Ts make the same observation, and it makes sense. Emotional regulation is probably a lot easier when you're not struggling with co morbid symptoms like depression and anxiety. Some of the very best periods of time I've had with my pwBPD are times when she's taken an anti-anxiety med.
And similar to what you're describing, the absolute WORST time in my pwBPD's life was when her P upped the anti-depression medication too high. I think that, paradoxically, the depression can sometimes HELP regulate things, and when you take it away, it's easier for the other symptoms to take over. If that makes sense.

Interesting, that does make sense.

As you know, only half of what makes the relationship work is up to you. The other half is out of your hands. It sounds like with the medications, things improved quite a bit. But have there been other changes, like couples therapy or introspective discussions, that would indicate your wife is taking a harder look at the deeper symptoms of her BPD-like traits and taking responsibility for her role in the relationship?

We have done couples therapy a few times.  The first T was great, but too expensive.  The second T wasn't so great.  We're talking about going back to the first T maybe every once in a while when we can afford it.

Sometimes she does acknowledge her roll in things, but when she does, it's too much.  "How can you stand being married to me?" and so on.

Other times she blames me for everything.  "Something's happened with you -- you're depressed.  You're having an affair.  You need a new T.  You need to be on meds", etc.  There really doesn't seem to be much middle ground where she acknowledges that we both need to work on things.

Every day, I think I'm moving a little more towards ending the R/S.  I'm trying to keep the peace for now.  (For example, I spent a bunch of money we don't really have this afternoon on some jewelry as a late Christmas present/apology.)

[formflier]

Please stop apologizing... for anything.

It would likely be a step forward in your life and relationship that anytime you feel like apologizing, that you post about it here first.

We can help you sort out if validation is in order or an apology. 

I would think you could "agree" with her that Christmas was tough, emotional... etc etc.

FF

[prof]

I think my marriage is over.  Still processing what happened today.


Let's rewind a little bit for some context.  When I ran away over Christmas, I of course told my dad about what all had happened, since I was staying with him.  I also told a good buddy of mine (let's call him B) what was going on over a few beers the first night I was there.  Both already knew a lot -- I talked to both my dad and B on the phone a fair amount this summer.  Both of them have gone through divorces and emotionally intense relationships.  They also both have psychology backgrounds, so they're great resources.  I've talked to both of them a fair amount on the phone over the past six months or so about my R/S with uBPDw.  (B told me while I was up there that out of all his friends and family, my R/S is the worst... .)

Anyway, uBPDw texted both of them after I left asking about my whereabouts.  My dad never responded, although he did forward her messages on to me and suggested that I get back to her.  B simply stated that he wasn't going to get involved.

This made uBPDw very angry, both at them for not communicating with her, and at me for involving them in the first place.  Her relationship with my dad has been very rocky over the years, but had somewhat improved halfway recently.

She has told me that she doesn't want to see either of them again, and that she doesn't want my dad to have a relationship with S5 (his grandson).  She's asked my dad not to send S5 presents, and apparently asked me not to send my dad pictures of S5 (although I didn't remember this when it came up today).


Flash forward to this morning.  uBPDw's phone stopped charging (moisture in the USB port warning). I figured we could just wait a while for it to dry out, but she was convinced that it's just a bad phone.  (It was a replacement from the insurance company -- hers was stolen a couple months ago.)  I told her to use my phone to call the insurance company and see about getting a replacement while I used the bathroom.

A few moments later, uBPDw stormed into the bathroom, absolutely livid.  While she had my phone, she had read through some texts I had sent to my dad and B.

The texts to my dad included pictures of S5.  And B sent me a screenshot of a text uBPDw had sent him claiming that I was appalled at his behavior toward her.  He asked if I was appalled.  I replied that of course I wasn't, and joked that selfishly it was kind of nice for her to be angry at him instead of me for a change.  (And to be honest, I probably did tell uBPDw that I was appalled at B's behavior at some point just to avoid a fight.)

This started a pretty big argument, much of it right in front of S5.  I kept trying to tell her that I needed some time to calm down and get started on some weekend chores she had asked me to do.  She wouldn't let me.  Eventually we both did calm down to the point where we were able to sit down and have a relatively constructive talk.  We used a technique the good, but expensive, T taught us -- she talks for 5 minutes while I repeat back to her what she said, and then we switch.  We did this for a couple rounds and things got better.


The evening was relatively calm.  I finished up the chores and worked on dinner and putting S5 to bed.

We learned that S5's school was going to be canceled tomorrow due to winter weather, but my college so far hadn't been.  uBPDw was convinced that I should stay home.  I'm very sensitive about missing class, as my relatively large number absences (which are almost entirely due to her) have consistently been the one big negative remark on my yearly evaluations.  I told her that unless we later learned that my classes were also cancelled, then either I was going to take S5 to daycare (which is relatively expensive) or that he would need to stay home with her (which she claims she's too sick for).

After I put S5 to bed, I tried to do a couple final chores before getting a few hours of sleep myself, but uBPDw wouldn't stop raging at me.  Finally I had it, grabbed my clothes for the morning, and started preparing to leave.  uBPDw started pushing and shoving me again, just like before I left for Christmas.  I said some pretty angry things on my way out -- I think "You can have your f$#*ing divorce!" was one of them... .

(Funny story -- apparently I dropped one of my shoes on the way out.  I had to buy a new pair of shoes at Walmart so I can teach in the morning.  And to do that, I had to actually do my shopping wearing only one shoe... .)

[formflier]

Prof,

     I'm sorry you went through that.

My best idea is that it is not over, this is a continuation of a the same pattern... .although the intensity seems higher.

What can YOU change to exit these situations much earlier.  I think SHE is getting something (validating the invalid) with all of this herculean work that you are doing trying to have a normal conversation.

I'm not saying do no work... .but the vibe I am getting is that you attemp, attempt, attempt and then poof... .leave.

Perhaps move to attempt, attempt, ignore, ignore, ignore... .leave

So put on some headphones and do things.  If she physically blocks you or physically interferes... .I would recommend calling 911.

Dude... .the phone thing... .  Never... ever... .ever EVER let her have access.   She can make a phone call from google hangouts on a computer... .or skype... or... .

Let her figure out her phone calls... .stop "solving" basic things for her.

FF

[prof]

So we ended up cancelling morning classes after all.  The text came 15 minutes before I would have left this morning if I wasn't already in my office.  That's frustratingly late, especially when S5's school made the announcement early yesterday evening.  But it turns out the the main reason for the fight didn't even really matter... .

My best idea is that it is not over, this is a continuation of a the same pattern... .although the intensity seems higher.

I think it might be over on my end.  I can't do this any more.

What can YOU change to exit these situations much earlier.  I think SHE is getting something (validating the invalid) with all of this herculean work that you are doing trying to have a normal conversation.

I'm not saying do no work... .but the vibe I am getting is that you attemp, attempt, attempt and then poof... .leave.

Perhaps move to attempt, attempt, ignore, ignore, ignore... .leave

So put on some headphones and do things.  If she physically blocks you or physically interferes... .I would recommend calling 911.

This makes sense.  I was tired (it was after midnight) and so I was quicker to anger and quicker to engage than usual.  I'm hesitant about 911 calls after this summer.  I called a few times for genuine suicide threats, and eventually DFCS came out worried about S5.

Dude... .the phone thing... .  Never... ever... .ever EVER let her have access.   She can make a phone call from google hangouts on a computer... .or skype... or... .

Let her figure out her phone calls... .stop "solving" basic things for her.

Yeah, that was pretty dumb!  I usually go back and delete texts like this too, just in case.  For whatever reason, I didn't this time.

[formflier]

  I can't do this any more.
 

So... .don't.  Stay married... .figure out what "this" is... .and put a boundary around it. 

Once you get momentum going in a healthy direction and they realize boundaries are serious... .they will back off much quicker.

For instance... .my wife starting yammering on about my SSDI... .

"I will only discuss SSDI with you, with an acceptable third party present"

Yeah... she pushed and accused and I had to listen to that for a day.  Then it was over.

I scheduled a visit with my T  and invited her... .she declined... .I won't ever bring it up or discuss it with her unless we are scheduling an appointment. 

FF

[prof]

I'm home now.  uBPDw is very hurt that I left S5 with her today and that she was passing out.  She asked me to come home and miss my class but I ignored her.

Right now, I'm giving her the reason that I am sensitive about missing class, as I mentioned above.  But I also suspect she exaggerated her condition.  I don't want to tell her this, though.

Is there any way to diffuse this?

[formflier]

 
Diffuse it... by not diffusing it.  Don't give her reasons.

"My class is important to us because it pays our bills" (nothing more needs to be said)

Ask her if there is anything specific you can do for her "right now" to help her feelings... .right now.

If she wants to talk about last night or next week... .go and do something else.

It is NOT your job to solve her stuff... .

FF

[prof]

It is NOT your job to solve her stuff... .

Thank you!

Getting involved on these boards again and re-reading Walking on Eggshells has been very helpful the last couple days.  Although things seem more straightforward and clear when I read them than when I actually interact with uBPDw, I did notice some improvement last night.

I did my best to validate a lot of her fear and anxiety about me leaving over Christmas and where our marriage is headed, but also avoided apologizing any more.  When I felt that the conversation was no longer continuing to go anywhere, I excused myself to go do some chores.  uBPDw actually took the initiative to give S5 a bath, which is very rare!  I even went to sleep at a reasonable hour!

[formflier]

I would validate less about the Christmas stuff... .perhaps no more.

"Hey babe... .we've talked about Christmas a lot.  I don't think further talk is helping our relationship.  What specifically would you like to communicate that you haven't already?"

or variations.

I'm seeing you wait far to long to do a boundary, when you do a boundary the enforcement kinda seems like a nuke (I'm sure she sees it that way) and then you get back to trying to solve and diffuse.

Sort of like "If I can just learn how to do all these tricks better my wife will appreciate me and get better"

I'm not suggesting no effort... .you should validate and build bridges.  My sense is there is a lot out of whack here.

Back to validating... .

Perhaps let her know that you have 5 minutes to talk.  Focus, listen validate... .then move along.  I do think that asking specifically if she has "new" thoughts is perhaps helpful.

The critical thing is you break the dynamic... .which you are starting to do.

FF

[prof]

I'm seeing you wait far to long to do a boundary, when you do a boundary the enforcement kinda seems like a nuke (I'm sure she sees it that way) and then you get back to trying to solve and diffuse.

Yes, I think this is exactly what's going on.  I'm really struggling with effectively communicating my boundaries.  I've been passive for so long!


A few days ago, we were going to take S5 to a friend's birthday party.  Four of our cats go outside, and we wanted to bring them all in before we left, as we'd be gone for a few hours.

Three of them came in pretty quickly, but the fourth took a while.  We called his name over and over.  Eventually, uBPDw heard a cat screaming across the street.  I ran into the woods there to look for him, but couldn't find anything.  We decided that she'd stay home and wait for him while I took S5 to the party.

On the drive back, uBPDw called me to tell me that vultures were circling those same woods.  He still hasn't come home, and we've assumed the worst.


uBPDw really struggles with death, and has been pretty overwhelmed with grief.  She also feels responsible.  "If we hadn't been calling for him, he never would have come out from where he was hiding and wouldn't have been gotten by whatever got him," etc.

S5 and I were both home today (1/2 inch of snow and our governor declares a state of emergency... .).  uBPDw and I were having what I thought was a really good conversation about our lost cat and our feelings about death.

Eventually, the conversation turned to Christmas.  I took FF's advice and told her that I wouldn't be talking about Christmas any more.  (Now that I've reread his post, I realize that I did this much less diplomatically than I might have.)  I left the room and started doing some chores in the kitchen.

Eventually, uBPDw left the house for a while.  I took S5 out to play in the "snow".  (I grew up in the Midwest.  The snow we get in the Southeast cracks me up!)  uBPDw started bombing me with texts.  There were some veiled suicide threats, but it was clear that she just wanted an emotional response from me.  I responded a couple times, trying to validate her feelings, but ultimately told her that I was going to focus on playing with S5.  (S5 was getting pretty impatient with me always pulling out my phone, too!)

An hour or so into playing outside, I noticed some vultures circling another spot.  S5 and I walked down the street and I poked my head a little bit into the woods below where they were circling.  I smelled something pretty nasty, and thought it might be the decaying body of our cat.  I wanted to explore more, but not with S5.  So we headed home.


A little while later, uBPDw called, hoping to say "one final goodbye" to S5.  I told her about the vultures, and asked her to come home to watch S5 while I looked more carefully in the woods.  She did.

It turns out that that area is the vultures' nesting area.  There is bird poop everywhere.  When I'd been there earlier, I thought it was snow.  But this time, all the snow had melted, and there was no mistaking it.  The nasty smell was vulture poop.

I did hear a cat meow.  It gave me hope, but it was likely a neighbor's.  (I had just seen two other cats across the street from these woods earlier.)

S5 was in the car with uBPDw.  When I came back to report my findings, he asked me why I "don't love Mommy anymore"... .  sigh


When we got home, uBPDw went into our bedroom.  S5 found a little Christmas ornament box lying around (yes, I'm still cleaning up from Christmas... .), put a couple of his Matchbox cars in it, and wanted to "mail" them to his mom.  She told him to go away.

S5 was really broken up.  He asked me why Mommy didn't love him.  I tried to reassure him that she absolutely does.

Eventually, I went to talk to her.  We started our "five minute rule", the technique from the good T, and eventually I told her that I've been working on being more assertive and that I'm been struggling at communicating this effectively.  I explained that my passiveness has been hurting our relationship, as I've let things build up until I pop.

She couldn't believe this.  "The only way our marriage works is because you're passive!"  She stopped participating in the five minute rule, and so I excused myself to make dinner.


Once dinner was ready, I took some to her.  She acted really out of it, and starting saying things indicating that she thought we were in a different place.  (In particular, she was acting like we had just talked to her brother-in-law, who lives clear on the other side of the country.)  I suggested she get some rest and went to eat my dinner with S5.

A few minutes later, she called me back to the bedroom to help her get to the bathroom.  She was pretty unsteady, so I stayed with her.  (I didn't want to -- I was still eating dinner!)  She kept going on like we had just seen her brother-in-law.  I was pretty sure she was messing with me -- pretending to be that out of it that I would be sympathetic toward her.

Frustrated, I said something like, "I'm not going to play these games anymore", left the room, and finished my dinner.  She snapped out of it and flipped out (in front of S5), raging at me for treating her like $@&#.  I needed to run to the store to grab a couple things, so I took the opportunity to go do that (with S5).

When I got back, she had locked the door to our bedroom.  S5 had fallen asleep, so I put him to bed.  She emerged soon afterwards, announcing that she was leaving for a few days to clear her head.

We had a relatively civil discussion while she packed and I folded laundry.  She left about 45 minutes ago.  It sounds like she'll be staying with her weed dealer.


This is the first time that she's left.  It's always been me in the past.  In all honesty, I'm not sad at all -- just relieved to not have to fight with her any more tonight.

[GaGrl]

I'll state the obvious - the only way the marriage works FOR HER is that you are passive.

[formflier]

  I'm really struggling with effectively communicating my boundaries.  

Clarity... .you do not need to verbally communicate your boundaries any more.

You need to DO your boundary enforcement.  Sure, many times there "should be" some succinct thing as you walk out  "I'll check back with you in 10 min, or something like that"

for instance... .

"Helping her to bathroom... "  (I'm assuming it is play for attention)...   "Looks like you are figuring this out, I will check back on you in 10 minutes... "

Note:  No offer to help, not asking how she is doing... .no suggestions... .you express confidence and you let her know when you will be back.

Wash rinse repeat... .  (very important you actually do come back for quick check.)

Also, take a look at your post... .anytime you "suggest" something to your wife... .I would consider changing how you interact. 

Express confidence in her, move forward with what you were already doing. 

Then, from time to time... .YOU decide when you can sit down and discuss her med stuff... .for a short period (say 10 min).

Thoughts?

I'm glad you have a break.  Enjoy the time with your son... .

FF

[BeagleGirl]

It sounds like you are doing much better at holding your boundaries and using your tools. I do want to point out one phrase I noticed (mostly because it’s something I would do and then get a figurative eye roll from my T).

“When dinner was ready I took some to her”

You definitely need to pick your battles and know when to make loving overtures, but I can imagine my T asking “what would have happened if you had given her the opportunity to choose to join you for dinner or not eat dinner?”

BG

[formflier]

“what would have happened if you had given her the opportunity to choose to join you for dinner or not eat dinner?”

Excellent point Beagle Girl,

Furthermore... .what would happen if you gave them the choice, they made a choice not to eat and you went ahead and enjoyed your dinner... .and let them be hungry... .

No encouragement... .no long conversations... .no verbal worrying... .just enjoy your dinner.

Perhaps even mention to them how wonderful the roast was... .and in a very nonchalant way mention the leftovers are in the fridge.

FF

[BeagleGirl]

My T calls that type of behavior on my part “over functioning”. In November I was describing something I was considering doing for dBPDh. Her response as I described it was just shy of that figurative eye roll type response. When I was done talking she said “I’m going to give you a guideline.  With your history of over functioning, whenever you hear yourself asking “should I ... .” the answer is probably “no”. I told my two best friends about what she said and they jumped on that bandwagon immediately. They both agreed with her and now interrupt me with “NO!” whenever they hear a “should I” coming.

It’s all part of changing my “dance steps” which clears the way for dBPDh to start acting like the husband I want him to be. That part is up to him, but it’s not likely to happen if I don’t get out of the way.

[formflier]

I like that term... ."over functioning".

I used to "over function" to "prove" to my wife that I was worthy of... .

Sort of "acts of service" love language on steriods... .  My P has helped me understand that is actually "smothering".



FF

[prof]

uBPDw has been away now for two nights.

Yesterday, S5's school was still canceled, but mine wasn't.  I had to take him to my classes.  He watched videos quietly on my phone while I taught -- he did great!

It was still a pretty busy, stressful day.  I also spent a good chunk of the evening getting two of our foster kittens vaccinated.  uBPDw texted me a couple times earlier, saying that she missed me.  When I didn't respond right away, she started text bombing me.

I eventually responded that I'd been busy.  She called and explained that she was waiting for some great show of love from me before she would come back.  I told her that I was confused, as I recall that she had left to clear her head.  I explained that I was doing my best to try to clean up our house, and that was something concrete that I know that she would appreciate.  (It's always a giant mess from all these foster kittens running around!  Plus there's still a ton of Christmas stuff that needs to go into storage.)  Otherwise, I had no idea what she wanted.  She said goodnight to S5, and I hung up.

She texted me a couple more times, and then again once this morning.  Apparently, she'd left the weed dealer's house and was wandering the city without any food or sleep.  I asked her to come home, eat, and rest.  No response since.

I'm of course concerned about her, but understand that her actions are her choice and are out of my control.  Meanwhile, I'm enjoying a calmer, less stressful home.  (I've actually watched my favorite tv shows the last two nights!)

S5 seems a little melancholy.  I was folding laundry on our bed while he took a bath in the adjacent bathroom last night.  Usually, he sings and plays the entire time, but he was much more quiet.  I asked if anything was wrong.  He said nothing until I asked about his mom, and then he admitted that he missed her.  I reassured him that she loves him very much and should be home soon.

[formflier]

I mention this issue separately not because I think it is high priority... but because it is "low hanging fruit" (or at least appears to be to me)



Is it time for YOU to evaluate if you have time and energy for foster kittens?

There is a theme running through your posts where they seem to be a big distraction (and yes a source of some pleasure).


Perhaps YOU pick a number of animals you will live with and establish that... .now.

You have a limited amount of energy, spend it wisely.

It appears to me that you live in some sort of rural situation, perhaps a few outbuildings and some land.  If you really get pleasure from animals I would suggest shifting them from the house to outbuildings or land.

Just so you know... .I'm the "anti-animal" a$$hole in my family.  I stood firm against another dog and now there are two bunnies outside.  If my family could care properly for another dog... .or the one we have, I'd be happy to have another.  I'm honoring their choices. 

Oddly enough... .since this has happened (me standing firm) they are caring more/better for the dog.  There is a connection there.  Stand firm.

FF

[formflier]

Prof,

Please be very deliberate in your communication or lack of communications with your wife.

Big picture:  No begging or pleading or big things to "get her back".  Express confidence in her and hopefulness that her decision to take space helps settle her.  Don't try to force her to accept the responsibility, but make for darn sure that YOU DON'T OWN ANY OF HER DECISION.

.  He watched videos quietly on my phone while I taught -- he did great!

Solid.  I would do something special for him.  Take him to get a burger.  Thank him for being so good and understanding.  leave mommy out of the explanation.  This is between you and him.

 .  When I didn't respond right away, she started text bombing me.

I eventually responded that I'd been busy.

You could have done better here.  Remember... no explanations.  (JADE).  Much better to have been a bit bemused... .perhaps ask her directly if she was anxious and you were curious about the gazillion texts.

You are establishing that YOU are not at her back and call. 

 She called and explained that she was waiting for some great show of love from me before she would come back.  I told her that I was confused, as I recall that she had left to clear her head.

This is sort of trying to correct the narrative... .generally best to stay away from it.

Probably better to reflect back to her and confirm understanding that she wants a grand show.  Once you have it correct... .let her know this is first you have heard of it and (of course) will need to give it some thought.

 I explained that I was doing my best to try to clean up our house, and that was something concrete that I know that she would appreciate.

Prof... .you have  heart of gold man.  But your natural inclinations to "convince" her that you are doing things she should appreciate is not helping the relationship and/or stability in your home.

If she wants to know what is going on at your house... .she can ask directly.  You can consider your answer for a while.

or... .

She could come home and see for herself.

   Otherwise, I had no idea what she wanted.  She said goodnight to S5, and I hung up.

If she wants to make her desires clear... she will.  She likes that you guess and do all sorts of gymnastics to show her... ."how about this" (noo... .oh bummer)... ."how about this... ."  (noo ... .oh bad prof... keep trying)... ."how about this"  (noo... .prof is bad... he doesn't know what his wife wants)

uggg... .double ugg... .  

Get rid of all that... give her space and time and opportunity to let you know.  In the meantime... .enjoy your time without her.

She texted me a couple more times, and then again once this morning.  Apparently, she'd left the weed dealer's house and was wandering the city without any food or sleep.  I asked her to come home, eat, and rest. 

Likely a bid to be rescued. 

I would have liked it better if you had expressed concern or simply asked her plans.  Asking her to coming home is dangerously close or is... .solving her problems and being pushy.

Let her be and adult and sort through her stuff.

   I reassured him that she loves him very much and should be home soon.

Would you want your wife to explain your love to your son?  I wouldn't want mine to. 

I'm fine with reassurance and you being there and you expressing your love.  Let your wife speak for herself.

I'm also worried about you telling your son she will be home soon.  Please don't tie YOUR credibility with your son to a disordered person.  Nothing good comes of that.

   

Hang in there... .this could be a turning point.  It is certainly setting precedent for the future.

FF

[prof]

Is it time for YOU to evaluate if you have time and energy for foster kittens?

Lol, no worries -- we're done as soon as the current batch is out of here.  Even uBPDw is sick of them.  We have 8 fosters right now, and 5 of them are already lined up to head to a new home in a couple weeks.  Hopefully the other 3 follow soon after.

It appears to me that you live in some sort of rural situation, perhaps a few outbuildings and some land.  If you really get pleasure from animals I would suggest shifting them from the house to outbuildings or land.

We're pretty rural, yeah, but in a wooded neighborhood near a lake.  We really don't have that much more land than your average suburban house closer to the city.  And we're likely not going to let any more cats out after ours disappeared a few days ago.

[prof]

Please be very deliberate in your communication or lack of communications with your wife.

Big picture:  No begging or pleading or big things to "get her back".  Express confidence in her and hopefulness that her decision to take space helps settle her.  Don't try to force her to accept the responsibility, but make for darn sure that YOU DON'T OWN ANY OF HER DECISION.

Thanks again, FF, for your amazing advice!

Solid.  I would do something special for him.  Take him to get a burger.  Thank him for being so good and understanding.  leave mommy out of the explanation.  This is between you and him.

Yeah, we grabbed a pizza yesterday and I thanked him a number of times.


uBPDw texted a couple times throughout the day and called me while I was driving home.  I must have missed it, but called her back after I pulled into our driveway.

S5 heard us talking and wanted to switch to video chat so he could show her a new toy he'd just bought with his allowance.  They interacted for a little bit, but she eventually wanted to talk to me again.  I told her that I loved her and that I was looking forward to seeing her again.  She told me that those were just words and that she wanted to see action and hung up on me.

A little while later, she texted me about how overwhelming her pain is and how alone she is.  I haven't responded.

The push/pull is ridiculous!

When we were talking on video chat, she briefly mentioned that a dude where she's staying treats her better than me.  Part of me wanted to respond, "Good!  Let him deal with you!"