A cautionary tale about what a "more stable" relationship looks like

[formflier]

So... .with the holidays, it should be no surprise that stuff comes up... .BPDish stuff.  BS reasoning is what it is.


Some big things have happened in my life.  Many of you know that my Father had suffered a stroke and was in a long term care/rehab situation for about half a year.  He had been making improvements and we were starting to see what bringing him home would look like, all while understanding his chances were low of "fully recovering".  

Several weeks ago, his breathing rapidly declined and he passed away.  It was disappointing, but at over 80 years old, not shocking.  I can honestly say that I said everything to my Father, that I would ever want to say, before he died.  I miss him terribly and would love to share another cup of coffee and talk about soybean prices, horses... anything really.

I hit the jackpot in life with my Father and his Dad and my great grandfather.  All solid men.  I'm doing my best to live up to their legacy.

I couldn't have asked for better support from my wife and family for the funeral.  I kid you not, short term stuff, she can rally and be a super-wife.

Long term... .whatever the family and mental processes are that trouble her... .they come back.  I've certainly gotten better at "dealing with them"... .but they are there... .and must be dealt with.

How so?

We planned to travel back to the home I grew up in (a days drive away) and spend Christmas with my Mom.  This plan was in place before my Dad passed.  We reaffirmed the plan after he passed.  As much as a week ago, we went through the entire thing.  100% support from my wife, to help my Mom and I (everyone really) with our grief.

Yesterday "she just remembered" her brother was flying in for Christmas... ."it had totally slipped her mind".  I wisely didn't react and had conversation with P later.

During our morning snuggle this morning.

"FFw... .I wish we had realized this sooner (about brothers trip).  I've thought about it and just can't wrap my mind around making any changes at this late hour.  Given that Mom is new widow of a couple weeks"

pause

"Perhaps you guys could come back a few days after Christmas to spend time with your brother before he flies back"

She "didn't think that will work... .because he is flying back on Friday, Saturday or Sunday... ." (right... .we all know they issue those kinds of tickets)  She also said she has known about the visit for months "but was willing to give it up for my Dad."

pause

"I appreciate that FFw.  I just can't wrap my head around making any last minute changes to what is likely the last Christmas ever celebrated in Grandma's home.  I look forward to playing one last time where Dad played with me as we struggle to say goodbye to him"

I got weepy at that point... .

My wife seems angry and went to work.

Nothing is settled, although I suppose it is an improvement that she is not directly threatening and "only" hinting of doom.

I'm hoping for another phone conversation with P today.  Her guidance is invaluable, yet at the end of the day my wife will use her value system to make her decisions.  I can understand and be empathetic all day long about how and why she is the way she is, but that still has an impact on me... .

Yes... life is much better, but I don't have the ability to "normally" grieve for my Father without "BPD" (or whatever it is... .being there as well).  

For all of those considering their futures and their relationships, keep that in mind.  It's going to be there.

Please pray for me and my family.

FF

[Sunfl0wer]

So sorry about the loss of a great man you care for dearly, and has had such great/positive impact on you and your family, deepest condolences.

FFw... .I wish we had realized this sooner (about brothers trip).  I've thought about it and just can't wrap my mind around making any changes at this late hour.  Given that Mom is new widow of a couple weeks

Really like the words you used to state your truth of things.  Love that you use “we,” “wrap my mind around,” and recognize/state the importance of family value of supporting widowed mom.  And also honoring what you need in the statement about needing to play in house you played and saying goodbye.

So well expressed
Adding your family in my prayers

[snowglobe]

Dear @Formflier, I’m so sorry for your fathers passing   , by the way you are describing he was a great father and an immense source of emotional support and caregiving for you. You are doing great recognizing that it’s time for you to grieve and take some time doing that. By working through all of the stages you are doing a favour for yourself foremost, but your family and children too. As with any trauma, unprocessed emotions always come back up when we least expect them. I also firsthand know, how frustrating and painful if it when you are at your lowest and need/crave some emotional support and stability. It’s not just the support, but space and time that is needed. Having your wife on the fences isn’t facilitating this transitional grievance time, as it should. Like you always tell me, big breath... .now to the question- you don’t expect a 5 yo to understand all of the nuances and depth of feelings when you cut your hand. They might observe it and say :”ouch it hurts”, but lack a genuine empathy when it comes to feeling your pain. Back to your wife, she is probably doing her best right now, perhaps having her own fears surfacing. You bil is a welcome distraction to those thoughts. You are right about her using her own value scale when making the final decision. Can you prepare yourself for the most unwelcome scenario and start making alternative plan visiting your mom? What would it look like? Can you take the trip sans your wife? Let yourself be pleasantly surprised, should she decide to come along. You don’t need to share every thought on this matter, just quietly put the things in motion.
I’ve similarly experienced the lack of support from my uBPDh every time I get sick, something goes amiss or, as recently my mom’s routine tests showed possibility of her developing cancer. She needed further testing and I’ve been on the edge of my seat sick with worry and anticipation. During this time, every time o would bring up the subject he would 1. Change the subject, 2. Not acknowledge my worries or feelings, 3. Through himself at work to limit the time for conversations. After a week I’ve realized that I can’t speak of the subject at all, although not explicitly stated he let me know that he doesn’t want to hear about it or help me deal with my worries. There wasn’t any shoulder to lean on, someone to share my fears, someone to confide it. So I leaned on my friends who went through similar experiences and told myself if my mom’s health were to decline, I would pack up, get on the train and go back to support her. It brings some dark thoughts of your own mortality, emotional support and overall well being. To me, it’s  quite frightening to realize that if I were sick or worse, I’d probably be better off alone, then him exasperating whatever went wrong further more.
Although I haven’t met you in real life, I want to tell you what a difference you made in my life. How your kindness, empathy and ongoing emotional and practical support help not just me, but so many on this forum. I’m sending you all my positive thoughts, energy and strength. You’ve been support to so many of us, and now we want to help you through this pain. 

[ozmatoz]

FF, I am so sorry for your loss.  I too hit the jackpot with my father and grandfather.  Amazing men that I look up to and who have supported me greatly.

My grandfather's health is declining and this past summer may have been the last chance to spend quality time with him.  BPD theatrics prevented that, I understand your "caution", its all part of the mix. 

I hope that things find a way to work out and you can get to your mothers place.  Its where you need to be.

I will pray for you and your family that you can find some peace and solace during the holidays.

-Oz

[formflier]

   Love that you use “we,” “wrap my mind around,” and recognize/state the importance of family value of supporting widowed mom.  And also honoring what you need in the statement about needing to play in house you played and saying goodbye.

So well expressed
Adding your family in my prayers

Please give me little credit for this and give a lot to my P. 

While certainly I have had a lot of growth and my "answer" to my P of what I was going to do was much... .much better than a year ago... .it was no where close to what I said, with the coaching of P. 

I'm so blessed to have a good P.  PhD level psychologist.  Likely in her early 60s.  She reminds me of my Dad's mom (grandma).  Has the ability to state life truth to you... .even about hard things at the same time Grandma would give you milk and cookies... .somehow it was completely OK and you learned a lot.  Very had to describe.

Thanks for the cudos... but the credit goes to my P and I've learned an important lesson here.

FF

[formflier]

I had a good talk with P.  And I'm hopeful that the values will be upheld.  I'm certain they will be upheld by me.  I also realize this is not the time (if there ever is) to force people. 

This is a time for succinct clarity.

The message I will stay with is  "I'm not going to be part of breaking a promise to my Mom, a new widow"

blah blah blah (insert whatever crazy is here)

"I'm just not going to be part of breaking a promise."


We did some thinking out-loud and if kids or wife refuses to go... ."I can't force you, but you are breaking your word to Grandma.  I'll deal with this after Christmas." 

No physical tussles, but clarity on what the promise was and my direction to follow it. 

Likely will break up a couple issues into some separate posts.

FF

[formflier]

Next few posts are not ranked in anyway, just sort of putting my thinking out there and Ps response... .perhaps you guys can point out things I haven't thought of.

My P didn't argue or respond really on this one... .but... .

I said to her that I often dream of "being handed the gift" that gets me out of this marriage.  That I couldn't imagine if my wife doesn't come and/or withholds/blocks children from going as planned, that I could ever stay married to such a person.

I think my P validated this (or the emotion) in the last part of our phone conversation.  "You know FF, I hear lots of stories... .this is the most selfish thing I have heard in... .in a long time."

FF

[formflier]

My wife did reveal this morning that she has known about the trip for months "but was willing to give it up for my Dad" (yes... basically admitting that the "just remembered" thing is a bunch of crap.)

The inference is/was apparently that had my Dad been alive she would go, but now he is not... .so... .(again... the inference) she is not willing to give it up.

My P made the point to set this aside "for now" (don't create sideshows... .P often says)... .

She said after kids get back in school we need to have a date night/talk and the lie needs to be specifically addressed as the kind of thing that destroys trust in a relationship.

We'll practice the exact word tracts later.

FF

[formflier]

At the moment, I'm oddly calm.  I'm disappointed to be dealing with this and very clearheaded that I may be driving to my Mom's house tomorrow... .alone, or with some "split up" group.

Honestly I don't think that will happen... .surely my wife will come to her senses.  However, any time my thinking has gone to "this is a red line she will never cross... ."... .yeah... .she crosses and usually blames me... .or other factors.

It is rare she accepts responsibility, even rarer she accepts it over long term without a bunch of BS reasoning coming up about why (fill in blank is OK)

So... .I'm trying to be appropriately hopeful, yet not naive.

I'm going to keep my promise.  Sadly, I may have to "respect" that others choose not to.

FF

[formflier]

Thank you for the kind words about my Father and sharing memories of important men in your lives.  For new posters... .please keep that up.  I find that very encouraging.

I'm now the family patriarch.  I'm also the only branch of the family tree to produce more "trees".

Dad had one brother and neither of my cousins have had kids.  Since they are into their 50s now, unlikely that will change.   My Dad's Mom was "big" into genealogy and made a book for all her grand-kids.   

A lot of space in the book was taken up expressing values and results of living out the values those people held.

I've obviously known the roll of family patriarch was coming my way, yet it feels weighty and does help me look at decision making from a "less personal" angle/point of view.

FF

[formflier]

So, my plan now.

Yep... .FF... .take some big breaths... .in fact I'm going for a short walk and plan on doing the big inhale and big exhale thing in rhythm.

Then off to a late brunch at a favorite breakfast spot.

Then make sure I am packed, vehicles ready... etc et.

Then, kids will start coming home from school, FFw will get home and... .?  We'll see.

FF

[ozmatoz]

Lots of thoughts going on here.  Keeping them separated is a good start.  The main focus is you fulfilling your promise to go see your mom.

You are taking deep breaths and doing the prep work to be able to go, even if its alone.  This is obviously a very painful time, do you think there could actually be more closure or healing if you were alone and not distracted?
I like the thought of "no side shows"  I will have to keep that in mind it is very sound advice and may serve you well this week.


"I said to her that I often dream of "being handed the gift" that gets me out of this marriage.  That I couldn't imagine if my wife doesn't come and/or withholds/blocks children from going as planned, that I could ever stay married to such a person.

I think my P validated this (or the emotion) in the last part of our phone conversation.  "You know FF, I hear lots of stories... .this is the most selfish thing I have heard in... .in a long time."

In regards to the above comment, I can really relate to this.  There is often so much pain associated with my life and my uBPDw that I have often wished she'd do something again that I could stand on and shout to the world "See! she's evil and I'm leaving!"  Then I would have the validation for myself, and validation from my family, friends and community.

But needing this is in turn selfish.  It puts the burden and responsibility onto others.  The reality is, if one wants to get out of the marriage they need to put the work in, be assertive and take the appropriate actions and stand on their own two feet.

Easier said than done.  You know I'm in the midst of that now.  I often care too much to make the bold move as I have clearly given my uBPDw too much power over my feelings.

Keep breathing, you'll be at your mom's soon.
You've been here for us, we're here for you too.

Safe travels.

[formflier]

Thanks... sound words.

The "work" I would/am putting into our marriage is clearly defining family decisions and my direction, so there is no wiggle room.

We all know that pwBPD are experts at alternate realities.

We "pretend" to have a Christian marriage where the man is the head of the house.  "More often than not" that is actually the case.

However, if that facade is going to be pulled down by my wife, my job is to keep the light shining, to be clear in my direction and then "respect" her choices.

I shouldn't put too much thought into this, since it may not happen this way, yet I would be naive to let myself get blindsided.

My hopes and prayers are that we are able to come together as a family celebrate Christmas and grieve.  My Dad always told me that "tears and smiles can go together... "

Oh... as far as "it being better for me to go alone... ."... .no it wouldn't be. 

There will be some hard paperwork to deal with later in the week.  The plan is for me to stay there and help mom through it (I'm the executor).  She has expressed that she is looking forward to being Grandma, making cream of wheat, making biscuits and gravy the way Dad used to... etc etc.

FF

[ozmatoz]

I shouldn't put too much thought into this, since it may not happen this way, yet I would be naive to let myself get blindsided.

I often feel like I am playing chess.  Need to think several steps ahead of my wife's potential behavior.

My hopes and prayers are that we are able to come together as a family celebrate Christmas and grieve.  My Dad always told me that "tears and smiles can go together... "

Oh... as far as "it being better for me to go alone... ."... .no it wouldn't be. 

Your dad sounds like a wise man.  I pray that the drama ends and your family goes with you.

She has expressed that she is looking forward to being Grandma, making cream of wheat, making biscuits and gravy the way Dad used to... etc etc.

This comment warms my heart, I do hope this happens for all of you.

Merry Christmas FF.

[Harri]

Hi FF.  I am sorry to hear about your Dad.  I am even sorrier to hear that even at this painful point in your life that ffw is unable see beyond herself.  It is hurtful, even if in the end she does decide to go with you to see your mother.

One thing I want to comment on is that I think you need to own all of the hard work and good decisions you have made in terms of getting to the point where you were able to respond to your wife the way you did.  Yes, your P has helped and guided you but I would give you at least equal credit for the changes that have been made.  I have witnessed you respond and act with grace and courage here on the boards when you have been challenged time and again.  The choices you have made to change and work hard are readily evident and I can't think of better proof that you are well suited to being the family patriarch. 

Wishing you and yours peace during this difficult time.

[Cat Familiar]

So sorry about your father, FF. You were very blessed to have such a wonderful man as your dad.   

As you often tell others, Buckets!

You are clear on your direction. You will be there to support your mother and keep your promise.

I know it’s really difficult to not wonder what choice your wife will make and how it will impact the kids. And I can see how this could be a defining moment in your marriage.

Big breath. How this plays out will certainly give you a read on who she is, far beyond her concept of a “Christian marriage” and the other ways she seeks to define herself.

There’s a song I’m thinking about that you might listen to when you visit your childhood home: Miranda Lambert’s “House that built me”.  https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DQYNM6SjD_o

I’ve followed your story now for a few years and I want to add to others’ comments about your ever unfolding wisdom and maturity. You’ve got some big shoes to step in now that your dad is gone, but you’re ready. You’ve done good. He’d be mighty proud of his son.

[formflier]

Thank you!  I'll be happy to share credit and I do see the change in myself.  I also understand that the direction I want to go in and my skills to get myself (and hopefully my family too) still need more polish and effort.


Cat Familiar,

Thanks so much for the song.  I have admired that song for a long time, although I will admit it's been at least 6 months... perhaps a year since I've listened to it.

The words in that song hit home and reflect the way I consider that house. 

My Mom and Dad took walks and would stop and admire the Appalachian mountains.  It was Mom's favorite spot.  Dad bought that spot and built Mom a house.  I showed up a bit over a year later.  The love in their marriage turned a house into a home where dreams came true.

Again... I'm very blessed.

Lately I've been paying more attention to Jesse Veeders music and writings.  Our farm (where we lived for 8 years and where the flood happened) wasn't too many hours away. 

https://veederranch.com/

www.jessieveedermusic.com/blog/

Thanks again for the support.  Please keep it coming.

FF

[formflier]

So... she has tried most of the standard "manipulations" to get me to change. 

I have stuck with the line that "I"m not going to break a promise to a widow of 2 weeks.  Our family is not going to be part of that."

The current "plan" she has announced is that I'm taking all the kids and she is going to stay and visit with her brother "who she never gets to see... .and she never gets to see her Dad... .and I've got to spend "everyday" with my parents."

I had a brief conversation with my P and I say little, pack up kids and head to Grandma's house, basically do everything the same as we planned, before her lies and manipulation.

That sucks... but it is what it is.

Plan is to pack tonight.  Leave soon after first light.  We'll see.

My feelings... I don't want to live this way anymore... .

FF

[Fian]

So I would like to defend your wife in this.  It sounds like she is unable to emotionally deal with the grieving any more.  That is probably not unusual with a pwBPD.  She is trying to get out of the situation by giving an excuse.  It doesn't sound like she has an issue with your mom.  She just can't handle being around a lot of grieving people.  If your dad was still alive, there would not be grieving, which is why she was ok with that.  I think if you look at this as just a person being weak, not a person being selfish, it might help you be more understanding of the situation.

[Turkish]

I imagine a good patriarch or matriarch stands by his or her values, providing an example to the rest of the clan.  

It sucks that she lied or forgot.  It's sad and hurtful that she may not go with you,  but is it the end if she doesn't?

Even given a Christian household,  I don't suppose a lecture like "what does The Bible say about widows and orphans?" would be taken well,  aside from the fact that this is your mom.  (Shaming)

[formflier]

If this was "unusual" for her to break her word, perhaps I would consider the grieving aspect. Plus, I've had several direct conversations with her about grief and she says she is ok, seems ok... .etc etc.

But, you never know for sure.  What I do know, is that the standard manipulation tactics are in full swing.  I'm not joining in.

Yeah Turkish... .no lectures.  This is not about lack of knowledge.  I'm staying succinct... .

We are about packed... .then I'll try to get some sleep.

FF

[Turkish]

I don't mean to sound trite, but it's like the movie War Games. "The only winning move is not to play." You be you,  let ffw be her.  You'll be a good son and be there for your mom.  Deal with it when you come back, if that's what happens.  "Sufficient is the evil of the day thereof... ." focus on what you need to do vis-a-vis Mom.

[Lalathegreat]

FF - My sincere condolences on the loss of your Dad. I will be praying and thinking about you and your family.

It sounds like you are approaching this in a very thoughtful way, and I'm so glad that your relationship with your Dad was in a good place. I agree that continuing with your plans is incredibly vital to your healing - I'm so sorry that they are being threatened. Your P sounds fabulous and I could not agree more with what she has advised.

Thinking of you - keep us informed!

Lala

[Sunfl0wer]

Agree with Lala sentiment.

My feelings... I don't want to live this way anymore... .

Just want to caution on making any moves/utterances towards ending things while in the midst of grieving and holidays. Just thinking that focusing on grieving and supporting family is task for now.   Evaluating big picture/ relationship impact can wait and happen later.

Not to say that thinking is not valid. Just saying... .it may be best saved for later.
... .In my prayers.

[babyducks]

FF,

My sympathies on the loss of your Dad.   May his memory be for a blessing.   I know he was a very significant person in your life and the loss you feel is deep and profound.  I know that the first year after a loss is the most difficult.   The first holiday, the first birthday, the first of anything without that person underscores the absence.

It's often uncanny how all our stories echo each others.   My partner went through a major meltdown as my mother was going through her final illness.    The last 16 days of my mother's life were very difficult for her and I didn't have the energy to cope with that, and my partners emotional upsets.    I made the decision to focus 100% on my mother and not only do I not regret that,  I actually take some solace from it.

As things played out for me,   I went through the wake and funernal without my partner there.   And that was a very good thing.   It turned out to be a positive.     I didn't have to work with or around my partners maladaptive life skills.   I didn't have to keep one eye and one ear tuned to the actions of a disordered person.  I could focus, exclusively on myself, my father and the people who came out to support us.   I can look back and say I did absolutely everything I could to pay my respects to my parents and I have no regrets.   That's important for me.

How ever this plays out for you,... .and I hope it works to your benefit, so that you have the time and space you need in whatever shape and form.    

Way up stream you said that

For all of those considering their futures and their relationships, keep that in mind.  It's going to be there.

You are (of course) right.   Those maladaptive life skills and view are always going to be there to some degree.    That's a very good insight.   and one I think, maybe, you've struggled to embrace.   Still I have to agree with Sunfl0wer, now its the time to grieve your Dad, your loss.   If she can't find a way to support you and share in your grief, that adds to your grief right now but can be slowly and carefully processed after the holiday season.

best wishes to your family.
'ducks

[formflier]

Yep... .no utterances about the future.  Keep it simple.  "We can discuss that after Christmas" has been said by me many times.  Then I don't engage any more.

By and large we are packed to go. 

FF

[formflier]

 
My purpose in sharing my feelings is to be open with them and try to create some "collective memory" with you guys.  Obviously times like this are a low point and there will be other times when I believe (erroneously) that things are "fixed" or much better.

The tools on here and therapy are amazing, they really do work and provide much more stability. 

However, there is a lot to what Babyducks said about struggling to understand... .really understand... what it means to be in a relationship with someone that displays traits of a personality disorder.

In this particular case, I couldn't have asked for a better partner during the funeral.  That is the same person now that using manipulation tactics (which she believes to be the truth) in order to compromise.  There is only 1... .and 1 thing only that compromise means to her when she gets like "this".

Yes... .tools are helpful to learn not to engage with it... .reason with it... .yet there it is...

Thanks for the support and kind words.  It means so much to me.

FF

[formflier]

Poof!... .new reality.

She is packed and almost loaded. 

Is trying to bait me into arguments with "You didn't think you would take the kids... did you?"

etc etc etc.

I've not engaged on any of it.

I expect we will be on the road within the hour... .maybe 30 min

Unless another reality shows up.

FF

[AskingWhy]

Dear FF, I am so sorry to hear about the loss of your father.

For a man, a father is his role model--for good or ill.  FOA issues for many of us crop up at the time we lose a parent.

Please take it easy on yourself and allow yourself to mourn.  As this man was a solid role model to you, the loss is great.

[I_Am_The_Fire]

I'm really sorry to hear about your father and what you're going through. I hope it goes well especially considering everything. I don't really have anything to add that hasn't already been said by others. I can relate and I really do hope it goes well. You wrote that you didn't want to live like this anymore. I understand that too. I think a lot is going on for you and it can be tough at times. I'm glad you reach out and have a good P that helps you. It's so important to have a good support team in place.