A cautionary tale about what a "more stable" relationship looks like

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

Dear FF,

Condolences on the loss of your father. I know it is very hard to lose a parent, especially a great one.

I am glad your wife was of support to you during this. I think the issue with her brother is a long standing one- she often feels the pull of her own FOO. I really think when there is a conflict for her- to choose what you want and what they want, she thinks she can please both of you. I think she ends up compromising your wishes because you are steady and consistent and her FOO is not. It's similar to the kind of drama we face with emotionally unstable family members.

You are a calm stable person, but just know right now that you aren't at your best self. It took me a long time to adjust to a new "normal"- a world that didn't have my father in it. Please give yourself some time to grieve. Your wife has a condition that makes it hard for her to manage difficult emotions. She may not be able to be empathetic to your grief.

Also allow yourself to grieve. Yes, I was functional- I had to be- and it was a gift to have responsibilities. However, there were times I just pulled the car over and sobbed, times it was 2 pm and I was still in my pajamas. Self care is key here.

This is a tough Christmas for you. I don't think terms like "Merry Christmas" apply here and are hard to hear. However, being there for your mother is a gift to her. If your wife comes along, great, but also know that being one on one with her is a great thing too. You are a husband and father, but you were her son first, and it is OK to have one on one time with her.

I know you are a man of strong faith. I hope that your Christmas is a source of comfort and strength to you and your family at this difficult time.

[Notwendy]

Dear FF,

Condolences on the loss of your father. I know it is very hard to lose a parent, especially a great one.

I am glad your wife was of support to you during this. I think the issue with her brother is a long standing one- she often feels the pull of her own FOO. I really think when there is a conflict for her- to choose what you want and what they want, she thinks she can please both of you. I think she ends up compromising your wishes because you are steady and consistent and her FOO is not. It's similar to the kind of drama we face with emotionally unstable family members.

You are a calm stable person, but just know right now that you aren't at your best self. It took me a long time to adjust to a new "normal"- a world that didn't have my father in it. Please give yourself some time to grieve. Your wife has a condition that makes it hard for her to manage difficult emotions. She may not be able to be empathetic to your grief.

Also allow yourself to grieve. Yes, I was functional- I had to be- and it was a gift to have responsibilities. However, there were times I just pulled the car over and sobbed, times it was 2 pm and I was still in my pajamas. Self care is key here.

This is a tough Christmas for you. I don't think terms like "Merry Christmas" apply here and are hard to hear. However, being there for your mother is a gift to her. If your wife comes along, great, but also know that being one on one with her is a great thing too. You are a husband and father, but you were her son first, and it is OK to have one on one time with her.

I know you are a man of strong faith. I hope that your Christmas is a source of comfort and strength to you and your family at this difficult time.

[formflier]

We are all (my wife included ) at Grandma's house.  Already have has several good moments. 

Heading out for some last minute shopping.

Drama of last few days seems forgotten.  Thanks for the support and kind words.  We all went with my Mom out to the grave, after church this morning.  Spent some time cleaning up and organizing flower arrangements that have been out there for a while. 

Spent some time as a family listening to Grandma talk about Grandaddy.  It was a good moment.

Thanks again, I hope everyone has a Merry Christmas.

Best,

FF

[empath]

FF, my deepest condolences on the loss of your dad. Your stories of your interactions with him remind me of my own dad. I spent a lot of time in the weeks after my dad passed away with my mom.

In my own life this year, I've had to just say that I'm doing ____ and let my h do whatever he is going to do. I've had so many family members needing help at critical life times. I've noticed that my h tries to get the focus back on him, but I'm not doing that anymore. I figure life is too short, and I want to be there for my family.

Spending time with your mom is very important for you all right now. Merry Christmas.

[5xFive]

Formflier 
I am so deeply sorry for your loss.
You are an inspiration to me. This situation took so much strength and grace and I really thank you for sharing with us.
I wish you peace this holiday.
-5

[Red5]

@Formflier, I am very sorry to hear of your loss, know that you and your family are in our hearts and prayers. v/r Red5

[formflier]

Thanks for the condolences.

Very happy to say we had a wonderful Christmas and are enjoying a lazy day at Grandma's house.  I'll give you guys a full update in a couple days.

Many good moments to share.

FF

[PeteWitsend]

FormFlier

I'm also sorry for your loss, but it does sound like your dad lived a good life.  As his son your patience and your ability are a testament to that.

Sorry you had to go through that nonsense with your wife, but you handled it really well.  Much better than I would've under the circumstances.  I'm glad it worked out reasonably well in the end. 

[formflier]

I'm also sorry for your loss, but it does sound like your dad lived a good life. 

He did.

81 years.  He was in stroke recovery for about 6 months or so.  I obviously had a heads up that he may pass away soon.  I can honestly say that I said everything to him I wanted to, which is much different than saying I would like to have another conversation with him (more time). 

We shared many good memories together.  In fact, my P and his doctors encouraged me to dig deep in the memory banks to find things to talk about with him, because challenging him to remember things from a long time ago, was good for his recovery and brain function.

Sadness kind of "jumps up and grabs me" at random times.  I let it come and go.  Other times there are lots of smiles as we share stories about him.

FF

[PeteWitsend]

Next few posts are not ranked in anyway, just sort of putting my thinking out there and Ps response... .perhaps you guys can point out things I haven't thought of.

My P didn't argue or respond really on this one... .but... .

I said to her that I often dream of "being handed the gift" that gets me out of this marriage.  That I couldn't imagine if my wife doesn't come and/or withholds/blocks children from going as planned, that I could ever stay married to such a person.

I think my P validated this (or the emotion) in the last part of our phone conversation.  "You know FF, I hear lots of stories... .this is the most selfish thing I have heard in... .in a long time."

FF

I've often felt this same way, about being handed "a gift."  

I guess it's more like a "Guilt Free Departure" gift... .the pwBPD's behavior is so beyond the pale that it removes all doubt in the non's mind, and allows one to leave with a clear conscience, free of any remorse, or guilt over feeling like one should've done more to save the marriage, or that in the end one left only from a selfish desire to better one's own life.

Selfish... .I don't know.  having lived through several dysregulated episodes myself over the years, and - even during good times - a general malaise that's always there in the background just waiting to be triggered - I have a hard time calling this anywhere near one of the most selfish things I've ever heard.

I would never judge anyone on the receiving end of BPD insanity.  It's not just exhausting... .it's actually stressful to the point of being harmful to your health.  

Edit:  unless I'm misunderstanding your post... .was your P saying you were being selfish, or your wife was being selfish by threatening not to go?

I guess if the latter, it's definitely selfish, but seems like "par for the course" when it comes to BPD.  pwBPD have no qualms whatsoever about doing this sort of thing.   if their fears of abandonment are triggered, no response is disproportionate in their minds.  

[formflier]

P was saying that my wife wanting to break her word at last minute was selfish.

We had planned to go when my Dad was alive.  He passed away.  We reaffirmed our plans after his death and were clear that we were now supporting my Mom... .a new widow.

She "remembered" her brothers trip just a few days prior and wanted to switch everyone's plan.

I think when it was all said and done there were about 3-4 stories about her brothers trip... .he was flying in... he was driving in... .here for a week... .here for a few days... .only 1 day off work. 

And... .that's really how that family operates... .stuff just happens... .and after the fact they act like everyone knew all along... .and was onboard with the plan.

Sigh

FF

[empath]

And... .that's really how that family operates... .stuff just happens... .and after the fact they act like everyone knew all along... .and was onboard with the plan.

Lol. My h's family is like that, too. It is one of the reasons that I'm glad that they decided to move over 1000 miles away.

"Selfish" is pretty much how pwBPD go through life.

[Hlinthewiking]

I'm very sorry about your father FF. I hope you all heal well and my prayers go to you and your family.

These times really can feel overwhelming and lonely, but I guess you got through the worst part, as hard as what may happen in the future, know you will endure.

It's very hard for me to understand how BPDs simply can't understand or simply don't care about their loved ones sometimes. My girlfriend projects so much, she says I never do anything for her and other things that she's the one who actually does. Not long ago she told me that I never do anything for her, I made her a pretty long list and asked her what she did for me, she paused for a very long time and even cried in anger and after several minutes she said took a train when she came to see me (she lives out of town and has no car).

[ForeverDad]

I'm sorry for your loss.  I lost both my parents when they were 91, in care and then hospice, so clearly not out of the blue.  My ex had painted them black so there was no help there.  However, I do recall that back before our marriage imploded whenever I got sick she would be nice.  (Too bad I don't get ill much.)

I feel like your wife tried to react her emotional way but you stood by good boundaries and didn't let her run the show.  So in this Brinkmanship she blinked, your boundary was tested and found solid.

[formflier]

Yep, I focused on being succinct and to the point about values involved, versus a power struggle.  I'm thankful she "blinked".  She has been wonderful on this visit.  I would be hard pressed to find things that I would have wanted to improve.

One of the things P and I have figured out is that she is not good at "long term" support in heavy emotional things.  Long term care was not a good fit.   Getting through a few days of Christmas was.  A few days of a funeral was.

More later.

FF

[juju2]

FF, i too am sorry for you loss,  so hard during the holidays...

I dont want to bother you now, but when you can, sent you a pm if you have the time.  I post on improving board as juju6860.

thank you   j

[formflier]

Looks like we are getting close to wrapping up this thread.  I wanted to circle back and focus again on my "point". 

I spend a lot of time reading, analyzing and replying to threads on these boards.  It's helpful to me... .sorta like going to the gym, because I know there will be a time when those "muscles" get used in my own relationship and in my own life.

Am I disappointed and hurt that my wife "was the way she was" about her promises and Christmas plans... .yes I was.  I suspect that came through in my writing.  Is it hard "not to hold it against her", yes... .that is hard as well.

My wife is a troubled person.  A look at her FOO provides clues and insight.  I can look back and "see" how my part in our relationship supported her, perhaps "hid" her dysfunction or perhaps gave her an easy out to blame me for her feelings. 

I've made great strides forward in being my own person and letting my wife be who she is.  That includes letting her "own" her own stuff instead of "rescuing" her from it.

I used to get "acts of service" (how I like to express love) confused with rescuing or taking away my wife's burden.  I still have to think this area of my life through.

I sometimes get PMs or other communications in a thread about how "all together" I seem to have "it"... ."it" being handling the BPD thing.  Sure... .I'm much better, but I want to assure you that I didn't feel all together when my wife was claiming poignant conversations never happened where we made plans and promises to each other, after my Father passed away.

That sucked... .no way around it.

Again... .I handled it better and I'll move forward. 

My "point" is that I want others to understand that unless a pwBPD chooses to do their "own work", there is a limit to "improvement" or "stability" based on the "non" changing "their part" of the dance. 

My relationship is so much more "stable"... it's incredible.  Weeks will go by with me pinching myself.  However, when life puts a vice grip on you with stress... .my wife is still who she is, with the tools she has.  Same holds true for me.

Perhaps this episode is part of me coming to grips with that... ."RA" (radical acceptance) is likely more of a process than a "I believe button" that I press once and move on. 

Last thought.  I don't want to "scare" anyone, just like I don't want to give anyone "false hope".  This post is a window into what many would consider a "successful" relationship with a pwBPD traits.

Thanks for all the support.  We'll let a few more replies come in and then I bet mods will wrap this up before it gets much longer.

FF

[snowglobe]

Dear @formflier,
I want to thank of for the afterword of your “saga”, and the cautionary tone you are using to sum it up. Like many members on this forum I look forward to your guidance and the voice of reason. I like your pragmatic and down to Earth approach when it comes to solving BPD riddles. However, in this thread you showed me that you are also a human, with emotions and feeling, and sometimes logic doesn’t apply. Surprisingly, it made me feel better and gave me a “permission” to feel hurt at times. Doesn’t necesarrily mean I will act on my emotional distress, but it’s ok to feel. I’m struggling with my feelings towards my uBPDh, and that’s the truth. On one hand I have reasonable expectations, as I would of a “typical” person. When it doesn’t come through, I remind myself that he is “atypical” or even more brutaly honest, “bat$&“ crazy” sometimes. I wouldn’t get upset if a mentally ill person would call me ugly, stupid or reject me because I’m Napoleon. I would pity them and move on with my life. In my BPD reality I can’t move on. I also find myself struggling being sexually attracted to “crazy”. I crave authentic emotional intimacy, I believe I graduated to that level. For me it’s the “sexiest” part of the dance, which I don’t have. This “come here let’s get down to business”, 30 seconds after he smashed my feelings or ego, is detrimental to my mental state. If I don’t comply, things get much worse, as he feels rejected.
Back to you Formflier, I know there was a fear, hurt and disappointment when it came to your wife’s recent behaviour. I, however want to bring your attention tic the FACT that she did come trough and played nice! All of your tools and expertise paid off. Majorority of us, as you know, don’t have the same luxury. So pat yourself on the back, you made it. In some hardworking cases, such as yours, emotional intelligence of a “non”, prevails over crazy of “BPD”. Thank you for your service sir, salute

[formflier]

Surprisingly, it made me feel better and gave me a “permission” to feel hurt at times. 

Sometimes "walking on eggshells" means that we try to act and "feel" like things that hurt... .don't hurt.

Part of my journey to not "save" my wife from her actions is to not "save" her from the hurt she causes me.  True, there is wisdom involved... .and I (nor should anyone else) "persecute" a pwBPD for their actions (long speeches, cussing out, droning on and on about how could you... .etc etc).

If she does something... .and it breaks my heart, makes me angry, happy, sad (fill in any other emotion really)... .I'll share it with her. 

It's on me to do so in a wise manner and to do so "appropriately".  It's on her to react appropriately as well.

I should "take her at her word" that she is an adult and not "save her" from the logical and normal reactions to (fill in the blank).

Now... .to be clear.  No every emotion needs to be shared.  Grace and "covering with love" has it's place. 

Sorting through all that takes time. 

My personal "rule" is that if I'm sitting around having a big debate if I should share or not... .I say there is no doubt and I share. 

Earlier in my journey I was the other way around... .if I couldn't figure out a good reason to share... .I would NOT share.  My shift has come as I focus more on my needs and "trust" my wife more to care for herself... .

FF

[Cat Familiar]

Sometimes "walking on eggshells" means that we try to act and "feel" like things that hurt... .don't hurt.

My personal "rule" is that if I'm sitting around having a big debate if I should share or not... .I say there is no doubt and I share.  

Earlier in my journey I was the other way around... .if I couldn't figure out a good reason to share... .I would NOT share.  My shift has come as I focus more on my needs and "trust" my wife more to care for herself... .

FF

I was the opposite. I thought intimacy meant sharing fully who I was and all my reactions and responses to my husband's behavior. I did that and obviously it was an inappropriate strategy for dealing with a pwBPD. My honesty and openness were regarded as blaming and shaming by him.

So now I'm very calculated about what I do share and it's minuscule. That things are smoother between us, I need to start sharing more, and trusting that he will be able to handle it. I have much better tools and I also can see how things impact him and am able to switch strategies midstream, so I know I'll be better equipped to be more open and authentic.

[Go Fish]

Dear Formflier,

I am writing with sympathy for the loss of your Dad and the difficult situation with your wife. I also lost my Dad after a long illness a couple of months before the holidays. We live in a different country and because of the logistics, expense, and my uBPDh's responses, I decided to leave quickly alone for the funeral and to be there for my mother. The time alone with my mom gave me such comfort and memories that I will always cherish. My uBPDh has limited ability to be with my family in peace and at their pace. I had been encouraged on this website to visit them on my own after I found out about my dad's illness and I can only thank the kind people here for making the suggestion. I too did not think this was right or possible at the time, but then when I went alone, I realised it made all the difference to me and my family of origin.

Although I understand your desire to keep your promises and keep your family together, maybe sometime when it's not a holiday you could also visit on your own. My h has taken care of our children in their older teens, and though it's emotional and difficult, they have found their way. I am still trying to figure out the best way to support the children, since they lost their grandfather and my h can't really help with grief, and I was raised in a pretty emotionally stoic household. It's up and down.

My father was also a one-of-a-kind stable, decent, honourable man. It makes me wonder how I ended up in this kind of relationship. On good days and to many people, my h shows these traits, but there are so many times in private that I struggle with his words and actions. I'll keep an eye on your thread to see what you have learned.

I have given myself permission to face my grief and mourning and try to understand it, since I have never experienced the death of someone so close to me emotionally, and the restructuring of a family, which you so eloquently describe. It is very personal. It's good that you have support outside your family. Blessings.

[SamwizeGamgee]

FF- Adding my sympathy to you for your loss.  I'm thinking about your role as patriarch now for your family.  I'd not want that role in my family, at least not too soon.  I have a hard time with my own life and reconciling what I believe and feel, and the life I live - acting married and feeling divorced.
I will compliment you on being a patriarch here on these boards for so many of us on bpdfamily.  I'm confident you are going to lead your family rightly.
May God bless you with comfort, strength and courage.