My husband is in a really bad mood.

[Cat Familiar]

My husband is in a really bad mood. He drank a lot last night and can't spare a pleasant word for me today. I don't think he's hungover as much as he's feeling sorry for himself. Yesterday he broke a veneer on his front tooth, but the dentist came in on his day off to fix it.

Yesterday he sent email messages to a couple of friends, his two sisters and no one has responded to him. YET. It's been about 24 hours and no response = people don't care about him and they've "thrown me away".

So naturally he's grumpy and now he lumps me into the category of "people who don't care about me." 

OK, I goofed. Started JADEing, invalidating him. Stopped myself and I did remember to validate that he must feel lonely and unappreciated and he agreed.

What I now realize is that this is recreating a FOO pattern where I apologized repeatedly for inconsequential things, begged and pleaded for my mom to love me, etc. ICK. I don't want to go down that rabbit hole again.

Intellectually I get it, but his crabby mood is like a syrupy black cloud that makes me feel really uncomfortable. My go-to strategy has always been to try and talk things out, and it's taken me years to realize how counterproductive that is with a pwBPD.

He's left for some nebulous errand, so I have a more peaceful ambience. I've got a friend coming over in an hour and we're going to play with my young horse and see if we can get her a bit more finely tuned up on her turns. Then my horseshoer is coming. Both these people are very pleasurable to be around so that will make for a pleasant afternoon before my hubby and his black cloud returns.

I'm pretty good at removing myself from the ugliness, but it still affects me. Anybody have any tips to spare?

[Cat Familiar]

I just had an epiphany today about my FOO and subsequent choices of life partners. I realized how important animals are to me because I've had very little experience of unconditional love from humans.

My mother isolated me from outside influences and if I'd had more time with some of my aunts and uncles, I think I'd have a better idea of what unconditional love was all about. But I only had short glimpses. Better than nothing.

But I certainly experienced that accepting love from my dog and cat when I was a child. And a bit of that from my dad before he was so worn out from dealing with my BPD mom.

[formflier]

I wonder if an "out of the blue response" would disrupt things.

Perhaps if you expressed loneliness to him and asked for his help... .

Perhaps and unplanned trip to town to eat out.

You are so lonely that you "just can't bear to discuss lonely anymore... let's focus on (fill in blank).

Admit you are being needy and appreciate his understanding.

Basically something to leave him scratching his head.

Thoughts?

FF

[flourdust]

I think this is where the tendency to want to fix things gets us in trouble.

Breaking it down... .husband is in a bad mood. It's not about you, and then it suddenly becomes about you - when he lumps you into the group of people who have abandoned him. You didn't say -- did you say or do anything at that point to capture his attention?

You make a good recovery there - you validate his feelings, and he accepts the validation! You're in good shape there.

Now you're dealing with a couple of feelings and impulses of your own. First -- can you take some action to get him out of his mood? Second -- his mood makes you uncomfortable.

I think you know that trying to fix his mood doesn't work, so it's good that you avoided that. Now you're left with your own discomfort. What can you do to address that? At a more advanced stage, you might get to the point where you don't feel anxious when he's upset, but for now -- what can you do to self-soothe? Take a walk, do chores, listen to music?

[Cat Familiar]

 Thanks FF and flourdust.

Regarding the idea of an unexpected response, I think you’re onto something, FF. Breaking the pattern of responding to his “poor me” saga.

I’ve got to do it in an authentic way. He’d never buy me being “lonely” but needy, hmmm. That would probably work. It’s a fine line. When he’s like this if I say I’m hurt by him acting cold toward me, then he accuses me of “it’s always about you.” Like I’m not supposed to have a reaction if he’s being an azz.

I used to dress up my dog in a hat and tutu and try and make my mom crack a smile, so I don’t want to do the dancing bear routine to try and get him out of his
crappy mood. But at the same time, I want to respond in a different way so I’m not just exiting the arena when he’s crabby. I’m very good at that.

To respond to your q? flourdust, the anxiety I feel in his presence isn’t easily fixed. I do leave and do things and when I do, I’m happy in my own skin. But then I see him later and I feel that discomfort in the pit of my stomach.

I’m trying to figure out how to get over that.

Today I was treating one of my horses for a hoof abscess. Once he got the idea that soaking his foot in a bucket of warm water with Epsom salt felt pretty good, we hung out for a half hour doing that.

That’s something I love about animals: their ability to be fully present and relaxed, like the cat stretched out on my lap right now. I have that feeling with my friends and lots of other people—just being together in the present moment and being fully there with each other.

I thought I had that with my husband at the beginning of our relationship—to an incredible degree. But often, it’s like he’s got this intensity bubbling under the surface and he can’t relax or even be present for more than a moment with me. He’s got to do something—have a drink, watch a game on TV, listen to the radio, check something online. It’s like there’s a whirlwind of energy untamed just under the surface. He’s got to keep his mind constantly stimulated; he can’t just be.

That chaotic energy makes me uncomfortable. I want to be able to hold my own space without being a psychic sponge.

[flourdust]

Some fairly simple techniques can be helpful in managing anxiety in the moment. This is something I worked on with a stress management coach. I would get very anxious when my ex would phone me. Just hearing her talk would make me uncomfortable, and I would sometimes react badly by snapping at her or hanging up.

With the coach, I put together a short list of techniques and kept it on my phone. 1. Thank her for calling. 2. Do breathing exercises. 3. Do a mindfulness routine - count five things I can see, four things I can touch, etc. Those turned out to be good distractions to keep my feelings level so that I didn't act impulsively.

Could something like that help you in the moment?

[Cat Familiar]

Thanks, flourdust. Those are great suggestions.

It's recently become apparent to me how quickly his upset energy throws me off my game. I can be dwelling in my peaceful centered place and he'll come into the house and boom! suddenly I'm feeling agitated and disquiet.

I like the idea of remembering to breathe deeply into my belly, rather than finding myself breathing shallowly in my upper chest. And the counting is a really good suggestion--separating out each of the senses and fully experiencing them. That will help me stay within my own feeling space, rather than getting swept up into his agitation.

It's a fine line about having boundaries. We want them to be permeable to those we love, but at the same time, to have them strong enough so that we don't have to feel directly all the discomfort they're having in their bodies. I'm much better at doing this with strangers, though, being a "highly sensitive person" it's still discomfiting for me to be around chaos and agitation, no matter what the source. But I surely don't want to experience this in my own home, my refuge away from all the craziness of the world.

[formflier]

To be clear... .my thought has nothing to do with fixing his bad mood.  He can feel... however he feels.  I'm trying to shake up the dynamic between you guys, especially one that is bugging you.

I'm also taking the thought of training animals in here a little bit.  Many times when a horse or other animal is not doing well at something, bringing in a totally new lesson can capture their attention... .or at least refocus it away from an area that is not productive.

You would like a more present hubby... less crabby... .so, express your needs, ask for what you want and let him know that you will also be present for him tomorrow evening (or some other time).  You can even validate/agree if he brings it up that yes you are asking for "it" to be about you. 

Express and emotional need (remember, this is out of the blue so perhaps better that he doesn't buy it) and express something you would like to do together to address your need.

See how you are modeling healthy behavior for him.  If some rubs off on him... great.  If not... .that's ok too.

If he flips out... get's grumpier... whatever... .I would encourage you to go do the thing you wanted to do with him.  Don't toss it in his face... .but don't hide it either.  It would be fine to express disappointment.


FF

[Cat Familiar]

To be clear... .my thought has nothing to do with fixing his bad mood.  He can feel... however he feels.  I'm trying to shake up the dynamic between you guys, especially one that is bugging you.

I'm also taking the thought of training animals in here a little bit.  Many times when a horse or other animal is not doing well at something, bringing in a totally new lesson can capture their attention... .or at least refocus it away from an area that is not productive.

Yeah, I know exactly what you're talking about. I've heard it referred to as "pattern interrupt" and yes, that would be a really good strategy.

I tried it years before I realized that I'm dealing with a pwBPD and it definitely did shake things up. I haven't tried it recently, so that's a plan.

It's funny but I'm still reacting like I did as a child when my mother scolded me for wanting her attention. Hmmm... .I'll have to really think about this. Really, like what's wrong with it being about me? Or that I have needs? Jeez, I was trained to always suppress my own needs and try and placate someone else. Wow.

I see how this can be a teachable moment. I've got to be really authentic. He knows how self sufficient I am and that I'm never bored or lonely. I do, however, miss the closeness we once had. So that's an authentic need.

My initial question referred to how I could get over having my stomach in knots when in his presence whilst he's in a bad mood. There's no way I could try to change his mood--once he gets into one of those down in the dumps phases, he's very attached to staying there. Sometimes for days. Occasionally I've made him laugh and he's forgotten to be grumpy for a couple of minutes. Then he catches himself and goes right back into the black hole.

I understood that you weren't suggesting I try to fix his bad mood, FF. What was a bridge too far was that I was feeling far too fragile to even want to engage with him at all. I'm good at staying out of the way, manufacturing a task I absolutely need to do, hanging out with the animals, spending time with friends, etc. However, there are times when I have to endure being in his presence when he's grumpy and it really takes a toll on me.

So I'm realizing that I need to utilize a variety of strategies for self care at those times. For me, it's probably some latent holiday blues. Often I'm much better at dealing with him.

[formflier]

And... .be prepared to agree with him... 100% that you are making it about you.

When someone is grumpy... upset... disordered... and they express something to you, it's very powerful to not only validate... .but agree with them.

"Yes, I am making it about me today.  It would mean a lot to me if you could too."

pause... .

"Can we make it about you tomorrow night.  Perhaps we could... ."

FF

[Cat Familiar]

And... .be prepared to agree with him... 100% that you are making it about you.

When someone is grumpy... upset... disordered... and they express something to you, it's very powerful to not only validate... .but agree with them.

"Yes, I am making it about me today.  It would mean a lot to me if you could too."

pause... .

"Can we make it about you tomorrow night.  Perhaps we could... ."

FF

Good advice, FF. I've experienced the power of agreement and it truly is amazing.

What's so weird is that I've never felt OK about "making it all about me". That's surreal that it never occurred to me that I have a right to make things about me. How on earth did I miss that?

Thanks. You've really expanded my horizons.

[sweetheart]

It's so really easy to miss the 'me' bit all the time.
I remember when I was first learning the tools like validation, no JADE, SET etc I kept thinking, 'but I stilll feel xyz and what about that then?' Where does the 'me' bit go.

It wasn't until I read Stop Caretaking where she said if your pwBPD keeps doing something that upsets you, tell them, but tell them like this... .

'When you are doing/saying ABC, I feel XYZ and I want you stop because, maybe not forever, but for this time now because I'm struggling at the moment.'

 And then like ff says, give a window of opportunity to return to usual functioning so your pwBPD knows everything will go back to normal.

Inserting the 'you' takes more practice than just about any other tool. It is the bit I suspect we still most often forget in our relationships.

[Cat Familiar]

Thanks, sweetheart. This is very helpful. And good timing for me to set a new year's resolution to learn some new patterns that will be very beneficial for my own self expression and for the relationship.

I've realized that in the process of "not making things worse" I've also created a lot more distance. Some of that is good in that I've abandoned lifelong patterns of codependency and caretaking, but not all of them.    But at the same time, the distance is depriving the relationship of sustenance.

From the time I became conscious of "me" as a child, I was told by my BPD mother to not use the words "I" and "me" because it was selfish. As a tiny child, I was supposed to think about other people, namely her, I guess. Of course, that was a nearly impossible task for a kid of single digit years and I was shamed for thinking of myself so much.

Then later in life I learned that I should not use the word "you" and having been married to two BPD husbands, I discovered how charged that word can be and that even an innocuous statement including the "you" word could be interpreted as blaming and shaming.

I guess that's why I enjoy the company of animals so much. They don't give a darn what words I use as long as I let them know they are loved and appreciated.

So yes, it's a humorous bind. There are times when I really need to express how my husband's behavior is impacting me because I think he has absolutely no idea. Whether or not he would care and want to change his behavior to be less unpleasant toward me is another question.

But when he gets into one of his funks where he's sending clouds of black depression and grumpiness everywhere he goes, he does seem to think that it's perfectly his right to behave that way. On the other hand, he would never act that way in public. He pulls himself together and is polite and friendly, so I know it's possible to see the Dr. Jeckyl side, but in the privacy of his own home, it's Mr. Hyde on steroids. Not that he's purposefully angry and abusive toward me--I've set boundaries around that sort of behavior, but just the overall grumpiness and the "You don't care about me" kind of stuff really gets old.

So when it's at its worst, I exit the scene and get involved in my own tasks. But when it's only moderately difficult to be around, I think that's the time when it would be good to have a conversation about how his attitude impacts me.

He's self aware enough to be able to examine his behavior somewhat before he goes into a downward spiral into one of his pity parties where he thinks no one cares about him. If he could fully understand how being unpleasant might make me not want to spend time around him, then he would have more conscious choice about whether or not to act out his grumpiness in my presence. Or is that too much to assume that a pwBPD could process?

[Cat Familiar]

Well my husband has crawled out of the black hole and though he doesn't feel very good physically at the moment, at least he's being a pleasant companion. I'm very happy with pleasant, civil, polite--it doesn't have to rise much above this level for me to feel much more at ease.

And too, I get into my own holiday funk, though an outside observer would never notice it, since I try to maintain kindness as an operating principle. So I guess I need to be extra kind to myself when he's being crabby day after day.

When I feel strong and resourceful, that is the time to try and approach him with a message that his behavior is having unpleasant impacts upon me. Definitely not something I feel competent to try when I'm feeling weakness too.

[Cat Familiar]

Well, interestingly enough my husband unexpectedly tearfully apologized to me (for what exactly I don't know--the last few days? the last few years?) and told me that he wished that I would love him again the way I used to.

It caught me by surprise and I think the apology might have been triggered in part by the fact that he was not feeling physically well for a few days and that time gave him an opportunity to think about some things.

I told him that I never stopped loving him, but that I wasn't as comfortable around him as I used to be. (The best I could come up with on the spur of the moment.) It is totally true, other than I'm no longer infatuated with him as I once was. But I think the fact that I've cumulatively spent well over a month of my life on these boards, and possibly an additional month just lurking without being signed in, and then all the time and money I've spent on therapy, plus time reading--well, that's a pretty good sign that I love him and have been invested in this relationship.

Of course, I'll never tell him about being here, the books, the reason for therapy (I've mentioned how dysfunctional my childhood was due to BPD mom--and that's all he needs to know.)

So I'm not holding out any hope of major change, as I know what a set up that can be. And BPD feelings change so quickly. That could be a fleeting ephemeral thought, just triggered by physical discomfort. But it is interesting... .

And I'm being consistent. And true to myself.  

[formflier]

I told him that I never stopped loving him, but that I wasn't as comfortable around him as I used to be. (The best I could come up with on the spur of the moment.) It is totally true, other than I'm no longer infatuated with him as I once was.  

Bravo!  

Solid answer... spur of the moment or not.  

What can you do... .today... .tonight to follow up on this relationship moment and "nudge" things in a better direction?

Remember posts from a while back about leadership.  Remember talks about showing leadership to a skittish horse that has done well in training.

Thoughts?

FF

[Cat Familiar]

Thanks, FF. I have been a bit more affectionate with him today.

We had an invitation to go to one of his friend’s house for NYE, but he still is not feeling 100%. He asked me how I felt about it and I was open to going, but easily as happy to stay home. Actually more happy staying home, since I’m not too keen on this guy and his GF. (Too much alcohol, TV, rich food and sitting around for my taste.)

But I think my openness was a positive for my husband because he thanked me for discussing it with him.

The biggest drawback we both agreed upon was the drive home at night with all the drunks on the road. So staying home is the plan.

I’m just going to have a very mellow day without doing any major outdoor projects. The only thing I have to do is medicate my horse and soak his foot for twenty minutes.

I’m certainly open to rebuilding a connection with my husband. It took me a long time to get over my resentment. Then the next phase was a disengaged detachment. Now I’m open to rebuilding something. What that will look like, who knows? But it’s all good from my end.

I don’t have unrealistic expectations that I can turn around this relationship overnight, but I do have experience building things step by step: my now huge house compound, all my landscaped gardens. I started off many years ago living in a tiny trailer on an undeveloped piece of property without a well, road, septic, electricity. And bit by bit, I kept pursuing my vision and I now have a very luxurious life.

So if I can keep the focus on creating tangibles, I certainly can do that for the intangibles of a relationship. It may never resemble the ideal it once seemed to be, but it can continue to get better and better.

[Grey Kitty]

My initial question referred to how I could get over having my stomach in knots when in his presence whilst he's in a bad mood. There's no way I could try to change his mood--once he gets into one of those down in the dumps phases, he's very attached to staying there.

When you try to get him out of the mood, it probably makes him stick in it longer... .

And from a boundaries point of view, the grumpy crappy mood is his, and you have no right to take it from him, change it, or anything. The only thing for YOU to do about it is remove yourself from it before it harms you. (Turn things around--if he doesn't like your mood, trying to change it isn't good for you either!)

As for the knots in your stomach, perhaps as you practice letting him have his moods without trying to change them, you may well find that you will train yourself not to get quite so upset about his mood.

[Cat Familiar]

When you try to get him out of the mood, it probably makes him stick in it longer... .

And from a boundaries point of view, the grumpy crappy mood is his, and you have no right to take it from him, change it, or anything. The only thing for YOU to do about it is remove yourself from it before it harms you. (Turn things around--if he doesn't like your mood, trying to change it isn't good for you either!)

As for the knots in your stomach, perhaps as you practice letting him have his moods without trying to change them, you may well find that you will train yourself not to get quite so upset about his mood.

Yes, right on all three points. I've long ago quit trying to change his mood, cheer him up, get him talking about it (never has worked), so I leave him to it. And I do remove myself as much as possible. There are times when it's not possible to be out of his orbit (dinner, being in a car, attending a function we've planned), so my question was more about that.

I tend to pick up on other people's moods and I'm much more of a psychic sponge with people I care about. Part of that comes from being a highly sensitive person, which definitely has plusses and minuses. For that reason, I live out in the country in a place where there's little noise. When someone is highly agitated, it's really upsetting for me to be around that. I know part of the reason that I'm easily triggered by that is because I grew up with a BPD mother whose mental processes were very chaotic. Then my first BPD husband was prone to raging and depression.

Consciously I understand how to protect myself, but it doesn't easily translate on a physiological level. It's almost like how certain sound waves cause nearby objects to vibrate. I feel the same when I'm around people who are experiencing strong emotions. The good emotions aren't a problem. It's just when I start feeling the bad emotions reverberate within me. It's not like I'm having the emotion but I can feel someone else's emotion and it's really unpleasant.

I think being mindful and removing myself as much as possible certainly helps, but I'm wondering if there's a way to not reverberate with his crummy moods.

[flourdust]

I think being mindful and removing myself as much as possible certainly helps, but I'm wondering if there's a way to not reverberate with his crummy moods.

Well, we're all more sensitive and empathic to moods of people close to us. It's not like you pass a grumpy stranger on the street and that ruins your day, right?

I've found that using some of the meditation/mindfulness techniques I mentioned on other threads (breathing exercises, etc.) are helpful for managing my physiological stress when exposed to my ex's emotions. And if my own fight or flight response is tamped down, then I'm better at being rational in my choices.

[Cat Familiar]

Well, we're all more sensitive and empathic to moods of people close to us. It's not like you pass a grumpy stranger on the street and that ruins your day, right?

I've found that using some of the meditation/mindfulness techniques I mentioned on other threads (breathing exercises, etc.) are helpful for managing my physiological stress when exposed to my ex's emotions. And if my own fight or flight response is tamped down, then I'm better at being rational in my choices.

Well, I definitely feel the grumpy stranger and though it doesn't ruin my day, it's nevertheless unpleasant and something I try and avoid. That's probably why I spend most of my time at home in a rural area, or around people I enjoy. It's really hard for me to be in cities--just too much stimulation with all the people, noise and activity. It's exhausting.

So it's not like it triggers my fight or flight response when it's just a crabby mood and nothing is directed at me intentionally. It's just like having to exist in a very polluted atmosphere, so yes, the two choices I now see that are available to me: 1. exit  2. use mindfulness techniques when exiting is not possible.

I'm just wondering if anyone has had success reframing these situations with being exposed to upset agitated people. I'm thinking there must be additional strategies to make it more tolerable.

[Cat Familiar]

Now that I posed the question, I remembered a technique I used to use long ago. I would envision myself wrapped in a cocoon of white light. I didn't have to shut down my senses to be able to tolerate and fully experience things, but I would be protected by the white light. I guess I'll give that one a try next time he gets into one of his downward spirals.

Thankfully he's on an upswing the last couple of days, so it's been a lot more pleasant to be around him.

[Grey Kitty]

Consciously I understand how to protect myself, but it doesn't easily translate on a physiological level. It's almost like how certain sound waves cause nearby objects to vibrate.

The physiological responses are real, and you can't force them to go away, although they will (eventually) go away on their own schedule.

Another mindfulness technique is to be interested in and pay attention to what your body is doing. That might help. (One story from my mindfulness instructor was how she started getting really interested in some of those reactions... .and then while she was doing so, they went away... .and she was almost disappointed because no longer could be watching them!

Longer term, I'm going to guess that as you consistently protect yourself in those situations, your body may come to trust you... .and realize that it really doesn't have to worry about somebody being upset around you. 'Tho I suspect it will take a LONG while to really get there.

[Cat Familiar]

The physiological responses are real, and you can't force them to go away, although they will (eventually) go away on their own schedule.

Another mindfulness technique is to be interested in and pay attention to what your body is doing. That might help. (One story from my mindfulness instructor was how she started getting really interested in some of those reactions... .and then while she was doing so, they went away... .and she was almost disappointed because no longer could be watching them!

Thanks, GK. It's like one of life's conundrums: trying to avoid something often enhances it. If I lean into it and pay attention to what I'm feeling in my body--and also use the technique flourdust mentioned of being aware of five visuals, four textures, three sounds, etc., in addition to my white light strategy--then I will be fully equipped with a lot of tools to allow me to remain present to the moment.

As a child, I shut down my senses because it was too overwhelming and painful. Later I thought I was Aspergers because for one, I missed a lot of interpersonal lessons because I was so shut down.

In the last few months I've been doing Neurofeedback because of a concussion I had a year ago. In the process of doing that, I've regained all the cognitive abilities that had been compromised by my head injury and also I've gotten a "tune up" on my brain functioning. In addition, I've learned that I'm one of those "highly sensitive" people who have had to create strategies to survive in a very complex modern world. As as result of that, I've created a very peaceful home environment for me to rest and recharge.

One of the goals of Neurofeedback as I proceed is to strengthen my abilities to be "out in the world" and not so overwhelmed by noise, stimuli, bright lights and most of all, other people's chaos. I'll never opt to be in those circumstances, if as my dad would say "I had my druthers", but life being what it is, I need to be able to navigate those environments.

So thanks for helping me build strategies in the meantime, as my neural abilities gradually get stronger and more able to successfully cope with modern  life and with pwBPD!

[flourdust]

That's great! All these techniques are helpful -- like everything else, they won't work all the time, but the more you exercise them, the more you build up that "muscle" that manages your reactions.

[Gettingbetter310]

My heart goes out to you. It’s extremely difficult to A. Not be affected by someone else’s emotions who you love, especially when you are an empath (or you wouldn’t be with a BPD in the first place) and B. When you feel totally out of control of the other persons reactions and not just adult styled centered reactions... .reactions that are so dysregulating to the BPD himself that it rubs off on you and can also be dysregulating for you. My advice would be instead of trying to help fix him or save him by talking it out, focus more on your own healthy coping strategies as trying to help others when they are dysregulating actually can be enabling. I’m not saying not to be a teammate with your partner but in this case timing is KEY. To give him attention when he’s acting out equals positive reinforcement which fuels the negative behavior in the long run. Your best bet to smooth things out is to do this style of talking you mentioned after he has calmed himself and once you are both in a good place. I know that’s a tough sweet spot to find with a BPD but there are moments of adulthood in them or you wouldn’t have any reason to hold on. So pay attention to the silver lining aka that moment where he presents like an adult and try to talk to him then versus during an argument or right afterward hope that helps

[Gettingbetter310]

As for skills to regulate your physiological reactions, I’ve found that holding I’ve for 2-3 minutes really helps calm down the fight or flight response in you. Also, holding your breath for 20 seconds while washing your face with cold water. Anything that activates  your central nervous system will help, aside from a BPD triggering you

[Gettingbetter310]

To respond to your q? flourdust, the anxiety I feel in his presence isn’t easily fixed. I do leave and do things and when I do, I’m happy in my own skin. But then I see him later and I feel that discomfort in the pit of my stomach.

I’m trying to figure out how to get over that.

Today I was treating one of my horses for a hoof abscess. Once he got the idea that soaking his foot in a bucket of warm water with Epsom salt felt pretty good, we hung out for a half hour doing that.

That’s something I love about animals: their ability to be fully present and relaxed, like the cat stretched out on my lap right now. I have that feeling with my friends and lots of other people—just being together in the present moment and being fully there with each other.

I thought I had that with my husband at the beginning of our relationship—to an incredible degree. But often, it’s like he’s got this intensity bubbling under the surface and he can’t relax or even be present for more than a moment with me. He’s got to do something—have a drink, watch a game on TV, listen to the radio, check something online. It’s like there’s a whirlwind of energy untamed just under the surface. He’s got to keep his mind constantly stimulated; he can’t just be.

That chaotic energy makes me uncomfortable. I want to be able to hold my own space without being a psychic sponge.

I completely empathize with how chaotic energy can affect you, especially when you are past that vibrational state and are very comfortable in your own skin.
Speaking from being in recovery from BPD myself, my partner is in your shoes... .she is an emotional sponge and although I’ve almsot mastered my physical and verbal reactions to imagined or real abandonment or other triggers... .it’s still not safe enough for her to feel fully happy because my energy still internally shifts and she can feel it. I used to blame her for not being better at coping with her anxiety, then I realized how selfish of me that was. Now today I’m working on managing my triggers and a lot of that has come through a mixture of DBT- challenging my interpretations specifically as well as accepting my higher power fully and consistently asking for help from my higher power instead of constantly burdening my partner as being with a BPD is enough of an emotionally draining responsibility. Yes, you only have control over your own actions and we can sit here and pray for your husband to change and be more understanding but sadly that may never happen and it’s hurtful to think that you have to become more desentized to anxiety provoking situations. However I commend your dedication and if you look at this as another growing platform for yourself then I even think you could be excited for the opportunities that arise where you might be susceptible to being an emotional sponge and choose to handle it differently. That shift in you may automatically shift his behavior and reactions too!

Remind yourself that in those moments where his energy becomes chaotic that he is not an adult he’s an underdeveloped child and that’s when you have to practice radical acceptance that this is where he is currently at. You are making a choice to stay and that side of him is very real. Maybe try to focus on his positive attributes when he gets into this mode. Out of pure sincerity I’m wondering what is keeping you there? Just to understand you better... .

[Cat Familiar]

To give him attention when he’s acting out equals positive reinforcement which fuels the negative behavior in the long run.

Really good point! Thanks, Gettingbetter!

holding your breath for 20 seconds while washing your face with cold water

Another good strategy! Thanks. I knew someone long ago who would leave discussions to wash his face. Perhaps that's what he was doing. 

I wasn't sure what you were explaining in the first part of your sentence, Gettingbetter. Was it a pattern of holding breath off and on for 2 to 3 minutes?

I completely empathize with how chaotic energy can affect you, especially when you are past that vibrational state and are very comfortable in your own skin.

Yes, it's truly a shock when I'm in my happy private Idaho and suddenly BOOM!

However I commend your dedication and if you look at this as another growing platform for yourself then I even think you could be excited for the opportunities that arise where you might be susceptible to being an emotional sponge and choose to handle it differently. That shift in you may automatically shift his behavior and reactions too!


This sounds odd, but it's only been a recent revelation to me how I've been a psychic sponge and have picked up on other's distress. I think the difference is now that I'm getting an overview and seeing patterns, rather than being lost in content. In the past, I would have been immediately addressing the substance of the disruption. (It helps to ignore language for a moment and just observe repeating patterns.)

Remind yourself that in those moments where his energy becomes chaotic that he is not an adult he’s an underdeveloped child and that’s when you have to practice radical acceptance that this is where he is currently at. You are making a choice to stay and that side of him is very real. Maybe try to focus on his positive attributes when he gets into this mode. Out of pure sincerity I’m wondering what is keeping you there? Just to understand you better... .smiley

Things have been much better between us since I've been learning new strategies both here and through individual therapy. In fact things are going so well that my psychologist has asked a couple of times if I still want to continue. So as of yesterday, I've scaled back my once a month appointments and now will see her every two months. I still enjoy going there so I can discuss things that come up and she's a lifeline to understanding my situation so I no longer need to share details with friends. Mostly things are going so well, I don't have a lot to deal with, so it's been really validating to see her as a "check up".

Thanks for your insights, Gettingbetter!

[Notwendy]

Hi Cat, I can relate to being sensitive to other people's energy and also having a BPD mother who told me I was "selfish" if I wanted or needed something from her. I can distinctly recall being disappointed at my college graduation when my classmates got congratulatory cards and gifts from their parents. I didn't even get a card. I started to cry and she looked at me with cold eyes and said "never expect a gift".  I knew better than to expect something expensive- but not even a card- that was tough.

My mother used the ST to punish us as kids. I recall sitting outside her locked bedroom door crying and pleading for her to come out. Ironically, my H used the ST at well and it felt intolerable. I used to try to get him out of his bad moods. One time on a family vacation, he didn't speak to me for days. Then, when it was over, he acted as if nothing happened.

When he was in a bad mood, it felt as if he was using all the oxygen up in the room. My own demeanor changes when he is around still at times. You have animals to take care of- and I take care of kids. With the kids, I feel carefree- when he is around, the tone seemed to change.

All this has improved with working on my own emotional stuff. The co-dependency groups have made a difference- one is the support of my first sponsor. I was on a road trip with my H and he was doing the ST. It was awful being in the car the whole time. I didn't have a phone with headphones at the time ( note to bring them on every trip!) and just sat there in silence and feeling uncomfortable. This sponsor supported me the whole way- keeping me grounded, recognizing that his stuff is his stuff and not mine to fix. He can be in whatever mood and it isn't my issue. I think I spoke to her at every gas station stop from the ladies' room where my H didn't hear the conversation.

Surprisingly, the ST didn't bother me after that. It seemed so odd that this change happened, but it didn't. Eventually he stopped using it- as it didn't work to get a response from me- I didn't react to it. Now, I am not even sure if he is doing it or not- as I tend to ignore it if he does. His moods don't really affect me much- and now, even my mother's moods don't affect me the way they used to. What has changed is me. I realized that someone else's moods are not my responsibility. This took a lot of practice but in time, I think I learned it.

The apology is a big thing. It happened in my marriage too. I don't know where we would be if he didn't realize his behavior was causing issues. I think we are fortunate that our H's are very high functioning people with milder behavior issues. I know this kind of thing is unlikely with my mother who is much more affected by BPD.  For a while this kind of thing acted like the recycle pattern- a sort of honeymoon phase- all is well now " forget the past" until the next bad mood. I would fall into it too.

I have heard " I want you to love me like you did". Well I am not sure that is the best kind of love. My head over heels co-dependent infatuation was all I knew at the time, but I think I love differently now. It's more subdued, not intense. Also menopause probably affects it too- I don't have 20 year old hormones. But what he has from me is a steady, non reactive and accepting love- and I think he has learned the value of that.

We also have some matching issues. He also feels he has to be "perfect" to be loved and I told him I wanted a real person- someone who isn't perfect - and he's learned to see that.

It takes time Cat, but I think your H may feel uneasy around you too. You do everything well and his source of self esteem- employment - is not there for him. I think there is a bit of this behind my H not helping with the house or kids much. He had a mother who did this all and he didn't learn. My mother didn't like to cook or do housework and I learned to do these things when I was a teen. He doesn't feel he has expertise in this.

Cat, I think once we do work on ourselves and our inner child- other people's moods don't bother us as much. I know you can do this!