Where do their emotions go? After a BPD monkey branches

[Husband321]

It seems many of there relationships fit the same pattern. Idealization. Devaluation discard.  Recycle.

After the final discard, and they were initmate with you just a few days earlier, where do all of their emotions go?

I mean in her own way my BPD wife went through a lot to be with me. Tons of driving. (8 hours every other weekend for a year). Lots of emotional chaos. Introducing to her family. Kids. . And at times she was truly in love. 

I mean we never even watched tv for two years.  Just talked. Listened to music.  Do old songs make them remember? All the nicknames? Places we went ?

Are all of these emotions just shoved deep inside to resurface later? Are they grieving deeply during no contact with the new man?  Just simply forgotten? Did they never exist?

[valet]

Hey Husband321, let's get down to brass tax here.

BPD is a mental illness that reduces effective emotional processing and the use of executive functions. One of the disorder's major criteria is impulsivity, which includes risky behaviors or a lack of restraint with substances, in relationships, etc.

I know that it's pretty difficult to understand this when we're in pain, especially when caring about the person that these emotions revolve around. However, to really empathize with our loved ones (past and present), we need to be able to look at the big picture and see the patterns of behavior for what they really are.

So, where do the emotions go? I'm not so sure that they go anywhere. They stay with the person whether or not they have found a new romantic partner, the difference being that they are using this new partner, substance, or thing (who/which is often misjudged initially) to soothe intense core pain. In other words, these idealizations are just a coping mechanism which allows the pwBPD to feel safe in context of their own grief. It gives them the identity that they've lacked since childhood.

Here's a question for you: have you thought about the reasons for your questions here? What is it that makes you wonder about these things?

[itgetsbetter94]

In my ex's case, he literally fell out of love over night (there was later some push-pull dynamic, "ofc I love you", flipping back and forth, go away closer thing etc.) but that was basically the end, he started disregulating hard core, became suicidal etc. It was all accompanied by the feeling of emptiness.  Or the feeling of emptiness was the cause, to be exact.
Their life is a constant struggle to avoid that emptiness.  I'd say their feelings simply "sink" into that void. The emptiness isn't just some poetic figure, it's a very real feeling for them. I never experienced that, thank God. No do I want to. Even when I'm the loneliest and most desperate, I still feel inner abundance/plenty (I don't know the word but you get the picture hopefully) and can find a ways to self-sooth.  For pwBPD that's mission impossible.
Their life is a constant chase to escape boredom, emptiness and being with themselves basically.

[Ragnarok4]

It seems many of there relationships fit the same pattern. Idealization. Devaluation discard.  Recycle.

After the final discard, and they were initmate with you just a few days earlier, where do all of their emotions go?

Are all of these emotions just shoved deep inside to resurface later? Are they grieving deeply during no contact with the new man?  Just simply forgotten? Did they never exist?

It truly is mind blowing that someone can literally do a 180 on a loved one that has shared a life with them. Even though we know all this information about BPD, it still stuns us. More so, it hurts us and anyone else involved.

But they don't think about others that they have involved in their lives. It's like binge watching the current season of the best show on netflix and when you finish, then what? Now the tv, internet, cable box and anything else that provides the temporary entertainment is useless and gets thrown away since it has no more use.

Remember they can't commit or sustain anything beyond that infatuation/idealization. They hide all there shame in such layers that its hard to peel back when a fresh new face sees them. Once you've gotten close to their core, they find a new face to relayer with since there's no judgment or fear of being shamed so soon.

Where do all their emotions go? Nowhere. It stays. They just hide it very well from the world because if it comes out, it exposes them.

[SlyQQ]

They construct a fragile world based on denial and self bargaining, once the cracks appear it can collapse like a house of cards, she constructed an illusion around you that you could fix things, make them better,

No one can fix that wound, and even though she blames that failure on you now, she may decide to try again with you,

is it real, that's an interesting question.


her reality is different from yours is all i can say.

[MeandThee29]

Their emotions don't make sense to us. They process and store them differently. Their executive isn't functioning as we would expect.

I get hurt and frustrated, but I handle it differently than someone with BPD. I can handle people that are different than me, and people who have some aspects that I don't like. The pwBPD is all black and white. If there is narcissism in there, they will reject anyone who doesn't meet their standard. They'll say horrific things in the discard that their partners would never say. In some cases they'll even disassociate and not remember the highly emotional content, adding to the gaslighting.

The discard is so painful partly because we can't imagine doing something like that ourselves.

[Husband321]

I suppose I ask about "where do the emotions go" because what I have seen fits a certain pattern.

A. During discard she would choose to just disappear with no warning

B. After me asking and asking she will meet up with me same day.

C. She is 100% turned off.  Like no emotion whatsoever.  Just totally calm. Totally casual. "I just want a divorce. That's all". Different expression.  Just empty. No cryin. No yelling.  No debating.  Just nothing.

D. After a period of time (usually a couple days  or weeks) she is frantic.  Will take any step imaginable to see me. An example could be her saying "she is dying. And NEEDS to kiss me. Can't breathe.  Can't live without me.  She takes all the blame. Would drive 12 hours to see me for 2 hours.  Etc

So that's what I was wondering.  Do they just bottle the emotions up?  Are the emotions always going to come back for them? If they contact or not?

[gotbushels]

Hi Husband321  

I'll support you here along with the others.

I suppose I ask about "where do the emotions go" because what I have seen fits a certain pattern.

A. During discard she would choose to just disappear with no warning

I received this.

B. After me asking and asking she will meet up with me same day.

Got this.

C. She is 100% turned off.  Like no emotion whatsoever.  Just totally calm. Totally casual. "I just want a divorce. That's all". Different expression.  Just empty. No cryin. No yelling.  No debating.  Just nothing.

Got this. I found this one difficult to get used to. Things you'd expect affect to be present on her had her with no affect at all. E.g. "I slept with him" (cheating) or "Let's break up" (terminate relationship) with no apparent emotion.

D. After a period of time (usually a couple days  or weeks) she is frantic.  Will take any step ... .

Got this.

So that's what I was wondering.  Do they just bottle the emotions up?  Are the emotions always going to come back for them? If they contact or not?

I'm not a T, so the easiest way I can see this is that at any of the given times of A through D above, you're dealing with one fragment of emotions. The senior staff once brought up that pwBPD reasoning is like standing on liquid earth; quicksand, loose soil, etc. Most "normal" people try to get solid ground before building upward. pwBPDs behave like they are on liquid earth. I think pwBPD emotions are a little like their reasoning--for whatever mechanic is going on within them, they hold limited and changing hodgepodges of emotions at any given time. So you can see these hodgepodges as the emotion fragments. They don't seem to be able to amalgamate or consolidate their emotions and keep them stable over time. So they end up seeming to cycle back and forth between the basic merge/separate-style patterns. So in this vein, where the emotions are (your concern), is that I think you can think of them as suspended until their psyche brings them back to the set. If it brings them back to it.

I guess your experience could be different from hers in that you have a longer and persistent image of who you are, who she is, and what the relationship is about. Maybe she doesn't have that experience.

Anyway, I do think what valet brought up would be important to you. Why are you asking this?

[Husband321]

Why am I asking this?

As for myself I also have various emotions through out the  day.

Anger.  Sad.  Feel I dodged a bullet.  Would have liked closure. It's all new, and has been about  a week.

I guess none of us whom are discarded like to feel we meant nothing in any sort of lasting manner.

Really trying to wrap my mind around the fact that this is a mental illness.  Which I suppose makes me feel better.  Or I look back and kick myself for little random things I said that led to arguements that led to the demise.

I also think if she missed me it would make me fee better.  Like even if we won't see each other again, we suffer together.

And at this point.  Still married.  Nothing filed.  Just waiting until after the holiday to wrap this up.  If I do see her in person I wonder how she will act and feel. 

[once removed]

I guess none of us whom are discarded like to feel we meant nothing in any sort of lasting manner.

I also think if she missed me it would make me fee better. 

i can completely understand this. my ex and i were pretty enmeshed, she was pretty obsessive, so it really blew my mind to have the impression she didnt miss me or think of me at all.

i would submit to you that it probably is not that simple.

its true that people with BPD traits will often tend to avoid grieving. it doesnt mean they dont grieve, or that they always avoid it, for that matter. but lining up a new relationship, defense mechanisms like compartmentalization, these can be tools for putting off grieving. 

i think we can also mislead ourselves sometimes trying to put ourselves in another persons shoes. in my case, my ex was thinking of me, and did miss me, contrary to the relatively small picture i was privy to. i would suspect that is the case for you as well. you probably wont be privy to it any more than she is privy to your grief.

everyone also grieves differently, and it may be that you and she are on different pages in your grief - that is the case in 99% of breakups. when my breakup happened, i was under the impression that my relationship was on a major upswing, and i had committed to reinvesting in the relationship. my ex had already done a lot of grieving before and during that time, and the upswing, for her, was more like a last gasp.

bottom line, honor your grief, and try not to torture yourself with impressions of what she is or isnt going through, as one can never really know.

[Husband321]

I spoke to her ex husband which made me feel better. They have 2 children together and I would usually coordinate flights and things through him as he and my ex do not speak.

He basically said this is just what she does, and did to him over 10 times.

Disappear. Move in with a man.  Beg to come back. He took her back because he was more or less stuck with two toddlers. At times she would even get pregnant with a new man, then abort.

Of course her story was different to me, as it was total smear against him.  Now this new man just hears horrible things about me and him.

It helps because I had the tendency to blame myself.  If I could have just said a different word, or been more laid back.  Or always have the perfect tone etc.

But it seems this is just a severe pattern she has and will always do the same. And never fully take any blame or feel she did anything wrong.

[SlyQQ]

It fits the pattern she decides you've "failed" and are really worthless,

then over a period of time convinces herself ( denial and bargaining ) that she was wrong and it is worth another shot, she has to go all in and believe this ( black and white )

so nothing and everything back and forth, the more she thinks that you will "fail" the harder she tries to convince herself otherwise, until she can't and then a 180

[Husband321]

It fits the pattern she decides you've "failed" and are really worthless,

then over a period of time convinces herself ( denial and bargaining ) that she was wrong and it is worth another shot, she has to go all in and believe this ( black and white )

so nothing and everything back and forth, the more she thinks that you will "fail" the harder she tries to convince herself otherwise, until she can't and then a 180

Yes.  Her last texts to me were that I am a total useless loser.  Pathetic excuse for a man. Etc etc.

Of course before that a few weeks ago I was gods gift to humanity in all ways.

[Bo123]

BPD is a disorder.  Several levels of intensity of the disorder.  What was her parents/childhood/previous relationships like?  What has been said here is true to their situations.  I wish there was not only a simple answer but there is no answer as most act differently although there are a lot of similar actions by BPD's.  Your in for a wild ride, it wont make sense if your not BPD.  You wont understand why, the vast majority of us never know why and never get closure. Hope your the one to actually solve the puzzle of their mind, I just haven't met anyone that has been able to do that yet.  I feel sorry for what your going through, its punishment we don't deserve and wont get answers for.  Wish you the best on this journey.

[Husband321]

In my case I think she chooses the past of least resistance. Which is meeting a new guy and re inventing herself.  I was pushing for her to talk to someone as her life was spiraling out of control. She wouldn't.

Her family consists of single women.  So they enable and believe her.

I was in the new mans spot 2 years ago.  Her ex was horrible. Bad. Wouldn't let her see her kids . Then any chance she would turn around and sleep with him.

So I feel for her it is easier to blame me for her life going downhill.  Now this new man will save her.

It's amazing how adept these BPD are at story telling.  When I talked to the new guy she must have told him about 20 lies that he actually believes.  But pretty girl plush a "poor me" story = many men become infatuated with saving.

So that has been her life up until now.  She never needed to do any work as being pretty, with inheritance means you have a free ride of attention. 

Think about it from the new guys perspective.  He probably sees 100 red flags. But how often is a sexy 30 yr old with money going to want to be having sex with an average mid 50's guy?

[blissful_camper]

Hi Husband 321,

I think that processing emotions is a unique experience for each of us. Maybe how we approach that processing is guided and influenced by our level of tolerance to emotions that may feel unpleasant to us. If we are unable to sit with and through an emotion, what will we do to relieve our feelings of uncomfortableness?

We may seek a rest from those emotions. If important life skills aren't in place (self soothing) we may find a distraction to avoid certain feelings altogether *and sit with the distraction for as long as it takes* for those uncomfortable feelings to pass, and, with a bit of luck force the experience to fade away. Maybe we will find someone to pass the time with (a replacement relationship) or a replacement emotion, or both -- anything to avoid the discomfort of uncomfortable emotions -- those feelings that cause us to feel vulnerable, sad, scared.

The mind (our psyche) has a way of pointing us at experiences so that we *experience* the emotions that we try to avoid. We are attracted to what we need to learn about ourselves.

If we accept that challenge we can diversify our experiences. If we don't, I reckon there's a pretty good chance that patterns will repeat themselves. (Perhaps that's where their emotions go.)

Wishing you a very happy and healing New Year.

[gotbushels]

Happy New Year all.    

Wow. This has moved into a very interesting discussion Husband321.  

Anger.  Sad.  Feel I dodged a bullet.  Would have liked closure. It's all new, and has been about  a week.

Great. We're right there with you. I want to echo what   once removed said here:

bottom line, honor your grief, and try not to torture yourself with impressions of what she is or isnt going through, as one can never really know.

These relationships are exceptionally tough and it results in what seems to be also an exceptionally tough process after it. I too have ruminated over what she's doing from time to time--in many cases when *in* the relationship, we have to get used to thinking deeply about what we're doing because of the walk on eggshells; so in some ways--you may already feel in your heart that: rumination is a gratifying but quite fruitless usage of time.

I think once you've understood the relationship and have got some assurance that it was your experience, you can have that comfort that you won't feel compelled to thinking too deeply into it anymore. That can actually help toward your feelings of want of closure too.  

Really trying to wrap my mind around the fact that this is a mental illness.  Which I suppose makes me feel better.  Or I look back and kick myself for little random things I said that led to arguements that led to the demise.

This helped me a lot too--the understanding of the fact of the mental illness. I think it helped me to feel better too because I felt that I could understand more the things I couldn't forgive.

While some understanding is helpful to us, what once removed said is also important in this area:

i think we can also mislead ourselves sometimes trying to put ourselves in another persons shoes.

This was the part that caused me some kind of dissonance in understanding and was quite difficult for me to process. Oftentimes, the strong empathic abilities for nons (the caretaker type) will cause them--out of habit--to put on the other person's shoes. This seems to be highly effective in many situations around relationships with people who aren't the pwBPD. I think the problem is that, while we do put ourselves into the other person's shoes, we do also bring our own ideas of what their experience probably looks like. That kinda rests on the assumption of some reasonably strong resemblance of either (1) idea stability or (2) the personality results of object constancy. I think what Kreisman said here applies:

The borderline cannot conceive that individual or situational object constancy can endure. [... .] Just because the sun has risen in the East for thousands of years does not mean it will happen today.

(Kreisman, p117 of 2010ed, link)

This helped me a lot, and I think it's a good point to share with you because it'll give some explanation of the "why" of her somewhat liquid emotions. The ability to let go of the idea that you shared the same "operating system" (and therefore allowing the inefficacy of using the "putting on the other person's shoes" method), I think that will help heaps with the anger and sadness you seem to be feeling.

You're not alone while you're going through this.  

The mind (our psyche) has a way of pointing us at experiences so that we *experience* the emotions that we try to avoid. We are attracted to what we need to learn about ourselves.

This was very nicely put. Thank you   blissful_camper.

[Husband321]

 

And as an example it just isn't the emotions involving romantic love.  And me.

She created a situation this holiday season where her young children (whom she has not seen in 5 months) were coming to see her for 6 days.

At the exact same time she totally abandoned my son.   

And at the same time she is new "step mom"  for a guys children she just met on the internet.  This is all within 2 weeks.

So in other words she created a situation where my son is sad he won't see his step siblings.  Her kids were scared to fly to meet some new family.  Who knows what  this guys kids are thinking. 

Like how is she even able to create this much chaos and just move along like it is normal.  And actually function.

New man.  New step kids.  Seeing her kids.  Leaving mine.  All within basically a few days. 

[blissful_camper]

Like how is she even able to create this much chaos and just move along like it is normal. 

^^ Maybe that's her idea of normal -- her concept of normal and how to generate normal in her life, differs from yours. That sounds really simple, I know.

What would happen if you formulated 3 questions for yourself and about you, for each question you have about her?

What would you ask yourself?

[Ragnarok4]

In my case I think she chooses the past of least resistance. Which is meeting a new guy and re inventing herself.  I was pushing for her to talk to someone as her life was spiraling out of control. She wouldn't.

Her family consists of single women.  So they enable and believe her.

I was in the new mans spot 2 years ago.  Her ex was horrible. Bad. Wouldn't let her see her kids . Then any chance she would turn around and sleep with him.

So I feel for her it is easier to blame me for her life going downhill.  Now this new man will save her.

It's amazing how adept these BPD are at story telling.  When I talked to the new guy she must have told him about 20 lies that he actually believes.  But pretty girl plush a "poor me" story = many men become infatuated with saving.

So that has been her life up until now.  She never needed to do any work as being pretty, with inheritance means you have a free ride of attention. 

Think about it from the new guys perspective.  He probably sees 100 red flags. But how often is a sexy 30 yr old with money going to want to be having sex with an average mid 50's guy?

This is the most spot on description with my ex and her family. The enabling is one of the biggest issues since they only focus on their own needs. The path of least resistance is them not taking accountability for their own actions. That takes a level of extreme selfishness to just treat people in such ways and to find your counsel within other people that do the same is just sad. They will never find true happiness. They are always chasing dreams without realistic goals.

I've learned that most households and relationships have an unwritten rule. Withhold the truth to maintain peace. Well that will always result in chaos.

[Husband321]

I ignored her previous accusations and mean emails since dec 24.

Now at 6 am she sends more, calling me a stalker and loser?

I haven't had any communication at all with her.  Been moving on.

What do these emails mean?

[gotbushels]

I ignored her previous accusations and mean emails since dec 24.

A lot of people here have been presented with these situations; ignore? react? respond? figure out and respond to the situation without a response to her?

Now at 6 am she sends more, calling me a stalker and loser?

Getting verbal accusations may happen after breakups, maybe more for relationships with pwBPDs.

What do these emails mean?

What do these emails mean to you or to her?