Advice about responding to men with BPD vs women

[Nwish]

I’ve been reading a lot of good advice (and given some on my other posts) about not being clingy or needy when a pwBPD leaves and doesn’t know what they want. Also that it’s a good time to work on yourself (me) and take care of yourself to become stronger and more attractive.

A lot of the stories are about men wanting women exes to return and the advice is to be strong, don’t chase, and give space. Work on yourself and arm yourself with knowledge. It’s all great advice. However, I know there are differences between what men and women look for and need.

Does anyone have experience with a male ex with BPD? I feel like my ex has such low self esteem, that he won’t reach out or return until he is totally desperate, or at all if he doesn’t think I’m ok with him. He is definitely still trying to stay in my life, but I get better feedback from him when I stay in touch. Of course then I worry about being needy and not giving space, or trying too hard... .it’s just so hard to tell what he wants. I think he feels like he messed up so badly and he wants to hear that I want him, but I’m too guarded and just don’t reach out.

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[once removed]

the general, and first advice in a precarious stage of a relationship is "dont make things worse". there are some common things we do, like chasing, and being needy and clingy, but those are just some of the things,  there are many more.

after that, and in your situation, longer term changes need to be made to build a stable foundation, or at least get to one. theyre often uncomfortable changes, and they arent guarantees.

and in your situation, its less about reach out or not, and more about stepping back, seeing the big picture (which includes a lot more of what you want than what he wants), and changing the dynamic. sure you might get better feedback when you stay in touch. but your goal is to be in a committed relationship, not just his emotional support.

[Nwish]

Hmm - that’s a good point... .and goes along with my other post.

The thing is, since the sudden breakup, I’ve not actually told him what I want. I think he’s under the impression that he messed up and I won’t take him back in that way. I’ve given my own mixed signals. He knows he messed up and I don’t think he will fix it on his own. I guess that’s a good indicator right there though.

[Meili]

What do you mean by "he knows that he messed up and won't fix it"? How did he mess up, and what would it take to actually fix it?

[Nwish]

He tells me that leaving me was “unintentional” and that he loved me. I think he feels a lot of shame and guilt and regret for jumping out of the relationship and distracting himself with another relationship. I was going to be away for 3 weeks and his divorce had just gone through and he was getting anxious about commitment and me leaving. He wanted a little space, took too much and kind of “got caught” in a lie and being untrustworthy. He keeps saying he was disrespectful and ripped my heart out... .what he won’t do now that he’s single is ask for me to give it another chance. During his rebound relationship he would ask me to get back together all along. Now he’s saying he loves me as a friend and can’t fix it because he ripped my heart apart and broke trust.

And this seemed to happen after I was more emotionally strong with him and made him feel like I only wanted friendship.

[Meili]

How do you handle it when he tells you that he thinks that he ripped our heart out and that you cannot trust him? Do you validate his feelings, or tell him that he's wrong?

I don't mean for that to sound judgmental, it wasn't. It's really common for people in that situation to try to reassure the other person. With a pwBPD, this can have the opposite effect. We tell them that they are wrong and can trigger the abandonment fears again. We must learn to Stop Invalidating them. I was completely shocked to learn all of things that I do that are invalidating.

A far better approach is to Ask Validating Questions. It helps show the other person that we care and open up and talk about what is truly going on under the surface.

[Nwish]

I didn’t take it as judgmental - I’m grateful for every ounce of advice I receive on here!

I never thought of it this way. Are you saying agreeing with him (that he ripped my heart out and betrayed my trust) is better than telling him he’s wrong? I think I had it backwards but it makes sense. If I let him off the hook I am being invalidating?

I guess I don’t really say anything and that’s part of the problem. I’m just usually sitting there trying to figure out if he is saying it to have an excuse to leave me, or to test me to see if I will tell him it’s Ok, or to actually justify his guilt so he can move forward with me.

[Meili]

Is it true that her ripped your heart out and that you can never trust him again?

We only want to validate the valid. If those things are true then it's fine to validate them. If not, then don't. But what you can do is validate his feelings.

He feels that way, so that's what you validate. You don't have to agree or deny that he actually did such things, just that he feels he did.

Does that make more sense?

[Nwish]

Yes - that makes more sense. Validating his feelings, not his words, right?. Thank you. That makes it a little clearer.

Melli, Do you mind if I ask you how long of a separation you had before getting back together? And was she single at any point during your separation? I know relationships and people are all different... .sometimes it just helps to have a reference and I completely understand if it’s not acceptable for me to ask.

[Meili]

Yes, validate his feelings and the valid parts of the messages that he is conveying. Sometimes it is really hard to find the nugget of valid in what a pwBPD is telling us. It is better (and far easier for that matter) to not invalidate them.

No, I don't mind being asked anything about the relationship that brought me here. It's all buried in here somewhere anyway.

I was separated and had NC with her for three months. She was involved with someone else and reported that she was the happiest that she's ever been. Then, suddenly, she wasn't. She told me that she didn't want to be in a romantic relationship with me again. She kept telling me that she didn't want to be involved with anyone. She wanted to be my friend until she figured out if she could be romantic again.

What that turned out to be was that she wanted my emotional support and for me to play the boyfriend role without receiving the benefits of having a girlfriend. I was supposed to be fully invested and committed to her, but she had no commitment to me. I completely believed that I had to put myself through that in order to save our relationship. Then I realized how unhealthy that was. So, I stopped and started to live by my terms and not hers. She exploded and physically assaulted a woman that I was out with one night. I completely pulled away on a romantic level at that point.

That's when things began to improve for us. That's when we really started to try to figure out if we could save things.

[Nwish]

Thank you, so much, for sharing your story.

Did pulling away on a romantic level also include not reaching out to her?

[Meili]

No, we still talked and I would contact her when I wanted and on my own terms. I only communicated with her when I thought it appropriate. That applied to contacting her and responding to her. As long as I maintained that position, things began to progress.

I say that because at some point I did something stupid that she had good reason to be upset about. I became frantic, desperate to fix things and started to grovel and chase again at that point. I became her doormat again for a while.

[zachira]

Women are often diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder and men with Narcissistic Personality, though both sexes can be diagnosed with either personality disorder, and oftentimes if they have one of these personality disorders, they have characteristics of the other.  Essentially men and women with both/ either of these personality disorders see things as either black or white, cannot maintain a positive vision of a person when they are attacking that person, and have no perspective on their behavior while angry or later on, and never apologize. The narcissist will often worship a partner for long periods of time before suddenly deciding that the partner is worthless for no apparent reason. Men are able to hide their narcissism more easily as they are supposed to be aggressive and attractive to all kinds of women.
The borderline can oftentimes maintain their facade in public, yet they are extremely emotionally unstable and go between desperately fearing abandonment which turns into a ruthless pursuit of a partner to fearing intimacy which turns into rejecting their partner. Women are encouraged to be more emotional, and be caretakers, so they are more likely to be diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder. I believe there are just as many men who have Borderline Personality as women, and just as many women who have Narcissistic Personality Disorder as men, and it is sexism which often determines which diagnosis a man or woman receives.

[Nwish]

Thank you, Zachira