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Author Topic: Should I file or wait for her to? (Part 1)  (Read 3288 times)
Husband321
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« on: January 04, 2018, 05:18:41 PM »

Been married 10 months. No kids.

During the marriage BPD wife left 3 times. Claims she was never with anyone, but this last time I caught her by accident. From what I heard she moved in with this guy immediately.

Each time she came back she would be more extreme.  Got my name tattooed on her. Gave me cash.  Sports car etc. (she had an inheritance)

At this point the marriage is over.  But I have no idea where she is. She might be in my city.  Said she was moving to another state before.  Then another country.  So I have no clue.

Does it look worse for me to file?  Like I am abandoning her? Should I wait for her to file?  At this point the only communication with her is her calling me some names in random emails.
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« Reply #1 on: January 04, 2018, 06:33:39 PM »

Filing is an adult decision, that has a lot of finality to it. I don't expect her to make that decision.

If you want to file - then file. Expect that it may trigger her to want to come back, or may trigger her to abuse you lots, or may get no reaction.

Just know what you want - then do it. And stick by it.
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« Reply #2 on: January 04, 2018, 07:18:39 PM »

Courts know many marriages end in divorce.  So the court is unlikely to be concerned who files first.  This is an extremely short marriage, alimony is unlikely, especially if she has money for her own lifestyle.  Hmm, has she been married before?  Or a long list of boyfriends?  Does she have a legal record of making allegations against her former BFs?

There is risk she could claim some sort of abuse, that you controlled her, that you were abusive or even worse.  That would turn a quickly ending marriage into a horror show.  Still, there might be an advantage to filing first, that you control the process somewhat and your willingness to end it would not make a potential claim that you're a controller very believable.

From your description she does appear to be a person more concerned with other adult relationships than you.  She may rant and rage - has that happened before? - but then move on.  What is your goal?  Would you accept her back, knowing what she has already done three times within the first year of marriage?  What if you take her back and she announces she's pregnant?  You wouldn't know if it is yours perhaps until it is born, how would that complication impact you and the marriage?  Or do you see infidelity as a deal breaker, best to make a quick and less painful end to the dysfunctional relationship?

Caution is advised just in case she might try to make you appear worse than her, that is, making false allegations against you.  As poorly as people with BPD behave, they are often even more adamant that others are blamed for their behaviors.  Do try to protect yourself.

She is an adult.  Whether she will change for the better is up to her, you can't fix her.  You're in an emotional relationship and since BPD is a mood dysregulation issue, she can't really listen to you due to the emotional baggage of the relationship.  One huge truism is that it takes an emotionally uninvolved professional to provide the therapy and guidance.  And even then it is up to her to want to change and apply that therapy in her life, perceptions and thinking.  Unless she makes those changes for herself, you're a bystander to the chaos and whirlwind of her life.

Read The Bridge.  Follow the link.  At some point you have to Let Go and Move On.
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« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2018, 10:53:44 AM »

I'm sorry you're going through this

These relationships can be very emotionally wounding.

Does it look worse for me to file?  Like I am abandoning her? Should I wait for her to file?  At this point the only communication with her is her calling me some names in random emails.

It sounds like she has abandoned you before it could happen to her, which is kinda how things work, sad to say.

On the other hand, making it official could be triggering to her. So much depends on her mood at any given moment, and whether she is getting her emotional needs met some other way.

In family law court, the plaintiff/defendant thing doesn't mean much, usually. If you file, it will give you a little more leverage with the pacing of things.

How do things work where you live? If you cannot locate her, what steps are needed to bring the marriage to a close?
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« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2018, 02:06:37 PM »


I know of one state where the person that files has some control over venue (which judge).  This was used to get a judge that was a bit more "dad friendly"

So... .I would interview a few lawyers and see if there is an advantage.

Also, take stock of your life and see if there is an advantage to staying married longer (again, ask the Ls). 

Sorry you are going through this.

FF
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« Reply #5 on: January 09, 2018, 05:11:33 AM »

Sorry to hear you're going through this! I'm in the same boat right now... .just filed yesterday. If I were you, I would consult with a lawyer and probably a therapist too (this has to be really taxing for you).

I've found that any information I get online about legal situations has the caveat "it depends on local laws in your state/area." I know that when I sat down with a lawyer, I was surprised to learn several things that are unique in my state but seem almost universal elsewhere.

I personally spent time putting together an exit plan and read the book "Splitting: Protecting Yourself While Divorcing Someone with Borderline or Narcissistic Personality Disorder."

Good luck, and remember to take care of yourself in this process too!
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« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2018, 12:54:37 PM »

Throughout this marriage anytime she would get mad she would threaten divorce.

At this point she left 6 weeks ago and moved out. .  But was still seeing me up until 3 weeks ago.

I emailed 2 weeks ago asking how we can finalize this divorce. No response. She just sent me some emails saying how she hates me etc. then no contact.

I do not know where she is to have her served.  But she knows where I live.  Is there a reason she hasn't filed yet?
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« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2018, 01:26:12 PM »

Personally I wish I had filed. My divorce dragged on for nearly a year longer than it needed to because she controlled the speed of it. I had to jump through all her hoops and dance to her tune. The judge in the end even lost it with her for all her delays.
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« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2018, 01:33:38 PM »

Excerpt
Is there a reason she hasn't filed yet?

It's possible her threats to divorce you were only that, threats to keep you in line, off balance and always waiting to be allowed back into her good graces.  That you're prepared to morph her control threats into actual expectations may have surprised her.  She may not have counted on you matching her chessboard move, "You want a divorce?  Okay, I agree, let's do it."

Right now she's mad at you.  But she probably expects you to accept her back when her mood changes again.  So one way to look at it is you're on her back burner, simmering, almost dumped but not quite, held in reserve for when she's over her mad or whatever.  It is entirely possible she will come back and expect you to let bygones be bygones.  Then, what will you do?

At some point though, probably when she expects you'll really end it, she will paint you black, and in her mind it will have been she who rejected you before you could reject her, she who abandoned you before you could abandon her.  After all, you're the cause of her misery, you're the one who won't admit she's always right, it's all your fault.

My ex and I shared a preschooler, so she was emotionally triggered by the concept of sharing "her" child after a divorce.  She had very favorable temp orders and so she had every entitled reason to delay the Final Decree as long as she could.  She made us wade through every step of the divorce.  My lawyer estimated it would be 7-9 months.  Even though we eventually settled at the end minutes before the trial on Trial Day, it was 23.5 months from filing to decree.

Even if you don't know where she is, you can still get consultations with a few family law attorneys, get their opinions, suggestions and strategies.  Being well informed and prepared is essential.  Likely you can file using your current residence as her last know address and have her served at some place you know she'll be.  Perhaps her workplace?  Your lawyer consultations no doubt will produce other possible places.  The point is that even if she is in hiding, you can still file.  Warning... .Beware that if you take it upon yourself to find her she may retaliate and file stalking or harassment allegations.  Your lawyer or the lawyer's private detective can do what you can't do, they are professionals and they know how to get done whatever needs to be done.  That's what they're there for, to guide you through the tangled web of the legal arena that is court.

As for responding to her emails — an excellent way to handle contact since phone calls can be very triggering — be sure you keep them limited to the topic at hand and stay as emotionally neutral as possible.  Trying to JADE — Justify, Argue, Defend, Explain — generally won't work because she has too much emotional baggage from the close relationship for her to really listen to whatever you say, no matter how polite and calm you may be.  And even though you are limited in which emails to respond to and as neutrally and simply as possible, save them all, they are documentation that may be needed in the future.  Remember, whatever you write must be written as though the judge is looking over your shoulder!  In other words, be angelic.   Never be harsh, angry, controlling or aggressive in emails or any other method of contact.
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« Reply #9 on: January 10, 2018, 01:40:11 PM »

Its better if you file, as a general rule.

That said, you have known her for a long time. Surely there is something that puts the last 6 weekend in context where she married you, had a fight, walked out, and is living with someone else.  Its a outrageous series of events even for a complete crazy person.

Given what you know about her, where does this go next?
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« Reply #10 on: January 10, 2018, 02:26:45 PM »

  Is there a reason she hasn't filed yet?

Because she doesn't "want" to file yet. 

I get it... .you probably want the underlying reason, but it is not really knowable.  Even if she told you, would you trust it?

If she wanted you served now... .you would be served... .so you know it is something else.

You also know she changes her mind... .apparently a lot.

I would certainly advise you to prepare to file yourself.

Make sure you understand the risk of her grabbing money... property or other things that could complicate your life (basically a boundary survey).

Once you have a fuller picture, perhaps you can figure out what you want to do.

Said another way, basing your decisions on your understanding of "why" she has or hasn't done things... .is a recipe for disaster for you. 

Sort yourself out... .move forward.

FF
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« Reply #11 on: January 10, 2018, 02:50:42 PM »

Its better if you file, as a general rule.

That said, you have known her for a long time. Surely there is something that puts the last 6 weekend in context where she married you, had a fight, walked out, and is living with someone else.  Its a outrageous series of events even for a complete crazy person.

Given what you know about her, where does this go next?

Before when she would "disappear" she would come back and stay with me nightly.  Explained she just needed "space".  Which I now see meant cheating.

I never had verifiable proof.  I never saw it. I did this time.

Once caught, she then moved in with the other guy two days later.  I caught them on the first date. Verified this through him and phone bills.

So it is new in that respect. She would have came back already if not caught. I still get her mail and all of her bills are late. Credit cards only in her name. Which is odd as she always cared about and had a good credit score.

I would think she either is waiting for me "to forget" and take her back.

Or will play games once I file.  Or small chance she will file.

I would rather she file as I could see how she is willing to play this.  Just cut and dry nice and easy?  Which is preferred by me. Or her trying to get something from me. She has much more to lose than me,but I don't want to fight her for her co mingled money.



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« Reply #12 on: January 10, 2018, 03:33:48 PM »

A word of caution when it comes to divorce. Just because you have known them for years doesn't mean that you truly know them. My ex wife did things during the divorce that I would never have thought her capable of in a million years. Don't expect sentiment to stop them from going for the throat as it wont. You will become their enemy whether you act like it or not.

Also don't pay them a thing until its decided in court. I cleared all my exs debts and it didn't count for a thing in the final settlement. She even acted as if I hadn't (I assume because she had ran them up again in the mean time) and told her fiancé that I had left her in debt.
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« Reply #13 on: January 10, 2018, 05:55:23 PM »

I would think she either is waiting for me "to forget" and take her back.

Or will play games once I file.  Or small chance she will file.

I would rather she file as I could see how she is willing to play this.  Just cut and dry nice and easy?  Which is preferred by me. Or her trying to get something from me. She has much more to lose than me,but I don't want to fight her for her co mingled money.

I wouldn't worry about games... .the division of property is pretty straight forward and it will probably be easiest for you to just lest the process play out.

I strongly encourage you not to file to encourage an action on her part. File when you are done with all this.

Are you done? Would you take her back? It's a mess, no doubt.
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« Reply #14 on: January 11, 2018, 06:33:06 AM »

Right now getting stronger each day.

It's been 3 weeks since I have been with her. No idea where she is. She has no job and plenty of money, so she might not even be in the state or country.

It's not a huge deal for me to wait a bit longer.

Would I take her back?  No.  I could see if I cheated.  Or did something really bad. It's just regular conversations , that she turns into arguments, which cause her to disappear.  Always anxious. No way to live forever.

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« Reply #15 on: January 11, 2018, 06:38:41 AM »

If you don't want to take her back then what advantage is there to waiting to file?

The disadvantages are that you cant move on properly and you run the risk of her holding up divorce proceedings for as long as she wants.
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« Reply #16 on: January 11, 2018, 07:08:56 AM »

It's a lot to process in 6 weeks - marriage and abandonment. There is no rush to do this, this week. As enlighten me says, there is no advantage in waiting a long time either. The divorce will likely take a while.

Clearly she is mentally ill. She is hurting herself as much, or more, than you. She has put her inheritance at risk, the tattoo shows vs the leaving in a sort period flip between black vs white... .both are almost manic (as in bipolar).

Even if you wait, you need to speak to a family law attorney and get a lesson in what you need to do to protect yourself and what the process of divorce will entail.

Keep posting - you've been through a lot.

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« Reply #17 on: January 11, 2018, 07:15:50 AM »


I would spend some time "thinking through" your stance that you won't take her back but you won't file.

Some could interpret that as letting a disordered person be in charge of the course of your life.  On the other hand, "winding the clock" and letting time elapse is a good strategy to make sure your feelings hold  (eliminate flash in the pan feelings).

It's important you think this through for you and because it is likely she will try to recycle at some point.  Sorting yourself out in the midst of a recycle attempt is not a good idea.

FF
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« Reply #18 on: January 11, 2018, 08:29:47 AM »

I would spend some time "thinking through" your stance that you won't take her back but you won't file.

Some could interpret that as letting a disordered person be in charge of the course of your life.  On the other hand, "winding the clock" and letting time elapse is a good strategy to make sure your feelings hold  (eliminate flash in the pan feelings).

It's important you think this through for you and because it is likely she will try to recycle at some point.  Sorting yourself out in the midst of a recycle attempt is not a good idea.

FF

Also, ideally, if some time passes , we might just be able to "be cool" and sign papers together, notarize  them, and hand them in. We have nothing at all to fight over or separate.

I do know that if I file, without a lawyer,I might screw something up.  If we both get attorneys, I know from experience they are adept at escalating everything and making this process drawn out and very expensive. But I have not heard a single word from her since I emailed asking how we can divorce a couple weeks ago.

So that would be my reason for  waiting, for the time being. We have only been married about 11 months.

And while she moved out 6 weeks ago, we were still together almost 24 7 up until 3 weeks ago. Mid novemeber she was begging me to see her children and got me a first class ticket to fly with her... .so have been many extremes.

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« Reply #19 on: January 11, 2018, 08:39:56 AM »

I thought (misunderstood) that she left the marriage after 3 weeks... .she left after 11 months?

If that is the case, I think you will need to look at what was brewing over the 11 months that caused her to walk out - it was not likely the last fight that you had.
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« Reply #20 on: January 11, 2018, 08:46:46 AM »

I thought (misunderstood) that she left the marriage after 3 weeks... .she left after 11 months?

If that is the case, I think you will need to look at what was brewing over the 11 months that caused her to walk out - it was not likely the last fight that you had.

My apologies.  3 weeks after we married she did the same thing. Disappeared when I was at work.  Got a hotel. But would see me every night. This time she paid cash to rent a house for an entire year. Stayed one night. Spent 26k.  I helped her get back 18k of it.

She then came back and moved back in just as if something "snapped" out of nowhere.  Just was 100% all in again. She blamed herself and chalked it up to being "afraid to be married" again.

In October she moved out slowly with me knowing.  She just said she hates the state I live in. It was tough. But she wouldn't budge. I took her to the airport

So she left.  She put a deposit on a home in another state.  Then out of the blue "snapped" again, and flew back pledging eternal love. Then she flew with me to see her kids. Once again she apologized and took all the blame.

End of novemeber she disappeared again.  But this time I saw her with another guy, and after I saw them together 5 days before Christmas she moved in with him and introduced her kids to him as their step dad.

It was odd, because I atleast new her almost a year before meeting her kids. This guy literally knew her 5 days.  And a very odd looking couple.  He is over 20 years older, pudgy, just makes no sense.

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« Reply #21 on: January 11, 2018, 08:53:55 AM »

That sound like she never settled down into the marriage.

With that timeline, I think it makes sense to hire an attorney, draft of settlement letter and see if she will agree.
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« Reply #22 on: January 11, 2018, 09:04:06 AM »

That sound like she never settled down into the marriage.

With that timeline, I think it makes sense to hire an attorney, draft of settlement letter and see if she will agree.

Yes... .

I won't figure it out, but when she came back the last time she truly was telling all her family how much she loves me. How lucky she is to be with me etc. endlessly thanking me for standing by her. Sad about money she wasted.

Coupled with her issues, she has a ton of money, lost her kids, never worked, and really has nothing to do all day. That was also a constant stress. Be a housewife with no kids?  Get a job and work hourly for what reason?

When she came back last time she had a plan and promise she will go do yoga. Start a business. Go to school. Etc. None of it happened. And with all day to do nothing, she would find issues wiTh everything. My ex. Her ex. My house. Her family. My family. Just non stop
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« Reply #23 on: January 11, 2018, 09:39:29 AM »

My state allows for either divorce or (undisputed) dissolution of marriage.  The word Dissolution is far less triggering than the Divorce word.  Does your state have something like that?  That won't stop her emotional ups and downs but maybe it will moderate them.

Since such legal documents can impact your lives for many years to come, you will need attorneys.  Fortunately not all lawyers are money hungry scumbags.  Once you find an experienced and wise lawyer then you can get recommendations for another in case she is required to have one too.
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« Reply #24 on: January 11, 2018, 10:38:42 AM »

Do NOT do any of this without a lawyer, even though it looks pretty simple.  Interview a couple lawyers.

It sounds like you are OK financially.  True?

How much has this marriage "cost" you?  Not too fine a pencil here... .but I don't want to think you have shelled out $5k in your funds when you have spent $50k.  

You need this number before meeting a lawyer... .at least a rough idea.

There is no behavior I see in this post that shows she was serious about marriage.  You won't know if anything is actionable/recoverable (legally) until you ask.  :)on't assume you can get anything, but you should ask.

At the same time... .be prepared for a recycle.  What will you say when she knocks on your door and pledges love again?

Really sorry you are going through this...

FF
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« Reply #25 on: January 11, 2018, 01:47:05 PM »

This is a volatile on-again/off-again relationship. Right now, with a marriage of less than a year, you can get divorced and take a pretty minimal financial hit.

That hit - as well as other complications if there are kids - will grow bigger and more complicated every year you are married.

My suggestion is to get divorced... .and then, if you are still interested in her, continue the relationship as she permits, but without the threat of financial damage. Do it without the marriage contract.
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« Reply #26 on: January 11, 2018, 02:01:36 PM »

I spoke to a few attorneys and they suggested I could just wait a month or so to see if she can be found or contacted. Or I could hire a private investigator to have her served. 

There is no penalty for her for living with another man.  Affairs etc. Nor would I have to pay anything as we were married 11 months.




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« Reply #27 on: January 11, 2018, 02:43:19 PM »


Just to make sure... .you described her behavior for the entire marriage and a lawyer in the state you are married in saw no way to claim fraud or seek an annulment

That may be the case, now is the time to be sure.

Said another way... .the action may be something other than divorce or may be in conjunction with divorce.

switching gears... I'm not seeing any reason to rush (week or two) but I also see no reason to be talking month or two.

Oh... I would ask a L if there is anything that happens at one year of marriage as opposed to less than a year.

Big picture:  Count yourself lucky.

FF
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« Reply #28 on: January 11, 2018, 03:02:47 PM »

Yes... .lawyers did not even sound surprised.

One lawyer basically explained it as with the internet cheating is so rampant that courts don't even factor that at all into a divorce. There is no punitive punishment. He had clients who have had proof of their wiives sleeping with dozens of men with no Ramifications.

So it is sad, but just how it is.

And she was asking me for babies up until a week before she left.  So could have been much much worse.







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« Reply #29 on: January 11, 2018, 05:30:07 PM »

  So could have been much much worse.

I am truly sorry you went through this.  The quote above is the truth to focus on.  Take that as the sound of a bullet whizzing over your head. 

I would encourage you to be deliberate about being extra kind to yourself. 

Settling the legal part and making sure it really is "put away" will help you  process things on an emotional level... .and help you sort out your future.

FF
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