What Does It Mean to Detach With Love?

[Meili]

A lot of us struggle with maintaining, improving, or saving a relationship with a pwBPD, whether familial or chosen, because we have become enmeshed with that person. In its most simple definition, enmeshment refers to when we have interwoven our lives with another to the point that the individual identities are lost and it is difficult to differentiate ourselves from or function without the other person. This dynamic is unhealthy for all involved and creates a toxic situation in the relationship.

To undo the enmeshment, you must detach with love. But, what does it mean to detach with love?

I like the acronym that Al-Anon uses:

Don’t
Even
Think
About
Changing
Him/Her

When we are enmeshed, we are trying to control the outcome of the situation to achieve our desired results. We attempt to manipulate the other person’s thoughts, behavior, and emotions to have them mesh with our own. We are not focusing on our own thoughts, behaviors, and emotions. This keeps us focused on things that are beyond our control. The first step is to learn what is and what is not within our control.

When we know what is not ours to control, we can stop our own harmful and frustrating behaviors. We can stop obsessing about other people’s problems and giving advice or telling others what to do or how to live their lives. It also allows us to let them experience the consequences, good or bad, of their actions and choices. We can then deal with our own problems and not interfere with other people’s choices.

By releasing the desire to control the outcome of a situation, it changes the dynamic. We begin to respond in a new way rather than reacting. It is much easier to not take things personally. The impulse to immediately fix whatever is happening goes away. We can release unrealistic expectations that, more often than not, are sources of frustration and create resentment.

When we detach with love, we recognize others as the unique individuals that they are. We are free to define and maintain healthy boundaries because we can then let others know how to treat us and then allow them to experience the consequences, again good or bad, of their choices.

It also permits us to take care of ourselves, notice our own needs, and fulfill those needs because we are no longer focusing on others to control the outcome. The fear and guilt associated with leaving a bad situation, like when a circular argument starts or in abusive situations, is removed.

It is typically fear, obligation and/or guilt (FOG) that keep us enmeshed and from detaching with love. Obligation and guilt are really just secondary emotions with fear underlying them. We fear rejection or upsetting others when we do not meet our obligations or do not do something that meets their approval and the possibility of repercussions or consequences that could result.

What fears, obligations, or feelings of guilt are keeping you stuck and preventing you from detaching with love?

If you are working through detaching or have detached with love, what helped you get unstuck to move forwards?

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[qcarolr]

My pwBPD is DD31. She was dx'd at 23. That is when I found bpdfamily, Al-Anon, ... .  started a long process that I just now am able to call 'detach with love'. The first step was to heal myself to a point where I could be strong enough to not take her angry outbursts and violent rages personally. These were not my fault, not about me, out of my control. I figured out that I could love her always regardless, and I could leave the scene or ask her to leave when she had no self-control. She has several severe issues that do limit her ability to do paperwork and details, so I also began the work of figuring out what she was able to do herself and when she truly needed my help. She could call or text me anytime -- I don't answer during the night when I am sleeping. Those few times when it has been vital for her to talk to me during the night, for her safety (mental or physical),I have heard my phone vibrate in another part of the house! I also found a therapist I could trust and a group of women in my church that were able to give me much needed personal support.

Looking back I remember that I quit going to Al-Anon after a couple years when I just did not believe I could do the detachment with love process. I floundered about a lot for a few years, as DD flounder about in her own way. Looking back I can see that I was in the process of detachment with love all along and making progress with each baby step.

There is a lot of radical acceptance that goes right along with this detachment process. Acceptance that indeed other people's choices are out of my control. Maybe I can have some influence - the choices and consequences are still theirs. I still have work to do on the not rescuing from consequences -- then I find myself enmeshed again -- start again from where I am at now.

The other good I can see is how much improved many of my other relationships are with family and friends. It all works toward the good... .

My biggest challenge today is being a good parent/guardian for my gd12. She struggles with extreme anxiety and related anger with some violent episodes. She is unique and not the same as raising her mom, DD31. I find myself struggling to find the balance so I do not become enmeshed with her.

carol

[once removed]

If you are working through detaching or have detached with love, what helped you get unstuck to move forwards?

it sounds a bit simplistic, but seeing, and accepting, that the given dynamics are not only unhealthy, but not really ideal, when it comes to the given person i love. it took something of a leap of faith, and then seeing some results to really trust it, to motivate myself to accept and work through the uncomfortable feelings, to learn that fundamentally changing a relationship with someone i love can actually improve it!

it doesnt have to be some big or dramatic process either, although it certainly can be. ive shared this story before, but i had a friend who was the worst possible shoulder to cry on, always said something terribly insensitive. but he was hilarious, i enjoyed his company, and he was a good friend in other ways. i accepted who he was, that his capacity to "make me feel better" was limited... .just like if i had a friend who was a great shoulder to cry on, but not necessarily a "fun" or "funny" person. i stopped resenting him and just enjoyed our friendship for what it was, looked to others for emotional support.

years later, hes one of the most sensitive, best people to go to for emotional support. funny how that works.

and others here live with similar dynamics, but on a bigger scale. some people are married to husbands or wives for example, that they cant share their deepest hopes and dreams and feelings with, or receive emotional support. it sucks. one has to grieve that. but generally, the resentment, the expectations that lead to hurt, go away over time, you meet those particular needs elsewhere, you enjoy the relationship for what it is, and that actually tends to give the relationship the space to grow into something more ideal.

and although i dont have children, i can see how this would apply to a parent as well, in terms of letting children grow into themselves, and that involves, for all of us, experiencing the consequences of our actions.

[Lollypop]

Great topic!  

Oh boy, this was my big lesson because I couldn’t (refused to?) learn despite feeling such pain. He was my total focus, I stalked social media and was far too involved trying to find out about all the bad things I suspected he was doing.  It went on for years and everybody kept telling me to kick him out - pre-dx. My DS is a quiet BPD.

What helped me get unstuck?

Everything else Id tried hadn’t worked. I hit a wall and I was forced to recognise that a change in approach was needed. I’m a slow learner obviously!

Understanding what “detaching” looks like was easy for me. My DS was 24 so all problems were is, not mine. He was non functioning though and recently returned home from a crisis. So it was tricky as I had limited experience of the skills to support him and I was on the forum a lot and this really helped me - especially because I’d get confused. I can always reason out a problem so that I’m the fixer and I can sweep on in with my trail of glory (silly me!). Detaching for me was telling him on Xmas eve 2015 that I was not giving him any more money. It took him another 3 weeks to find himself a days work.

Understanding “with love” was more tricky. Love had been me doing things for him that he should have been doing for himself. So letting go by detaching left me exploring a new way to love. I offered to give him lifts to and from work as a way to facilitate him. He was very depressed and I allowed him the time and space for him to work as he decided. As he hit his problems I was more ready to try out my new skills; by this time I was pretty good at validation. The skills are important As they help but it’s the “detaching with love” that’s critical - for both of us and all my family.

Detaching was fully in my control.

Loving was providing the emotional support that was needed when he hit his problems. The skills really helped me. The problems came at his speed of growth and I tried hard to remain patient and flexible because sometimes he’d falter. Slowly slowly he learnt how to handle his money and his ever increasing independence.

I detached with love while focussing only on our core relationship. I let go of everything else, my expectations, his drug use, treatment. I hoped that one day in the future he’d have the motivation to change.

I feel detached because I no longer wake up in the morning with him and his problems in my mind. When he calls I know he wants something from me and I don’t put roses around my door with any other expectation. I don’t play the victim, rescuer or accuser - I try hard to stay away from his dramas.

Detaching with love for me is the grey area. It’s got hope in there. I’ve got the space to try and live with happiness. It’s pretty calm and I can roll along with a sense of humour. Who knew this was possible!  

What does detachment look like for you?

LP

[Huat]

Wonderful thread!  This should be considered as "required reading"... .all 3 of these eloquent posts coming from people who have "run the gauntlet"... .so to speak... .and have come out the other end battle scarred but stronger than when they started. 

I have more years behind me than I will have ahead and while I am finally feeling empowered when it comes to dealing with my uBPD daughter (much thanks to this forum!), I still shake my head at the time I lost getting to this point.  (Well, perhaps had she not given birth to those grand-babies who latched onto my heart the moment they took their first breath, I would have gotten here earlier... .well... .maybe.)

While my husband has been able over the years to "detach with love" from our daughter, it was not a do-able task for me and I am sure (know!) that helped to fuel-her-fire.  She wanted a "victim"... .I gave her me.

So now we are in yet another period of n/c with our daughter but this time is different.  Because of her escalating verbal/written abuse that could well turn to physical abuse as we age further, boundaries have been set.  "Radical acceptance" has lifted a weight off my shoulders.  I am learning not to fight life but to accept it... .face it as it unfolds... .deal with it the best I can... .then move on.  I am learning to like me... .to look after... .me.

All that is not to say I don't have my days/moments.  I am a Mom!  I need things, like reading this thread of posts, to keep me grounded.

Boy, in my next life are things going to be different!   ; )

[Meili]

For me, detaching with love meant that I had to surrender to the idea that I can't fix things for others who do not want them fixed. I was caught in a co-dependent cycle. I would put forth enormous amounts of effort and then get frustrated when the results that I expected did not materialize. I was trapped in the 10 Beliefs that can you get stuck. I had to learn to accept that those 10 beliefs just didn't apply to a chosen relationship, but to all relationships.

With my romantic partner, I definitely was caught up in:

• the belief that she held the key to my happiness;
• the belief that the relationship problems were caused by me or some circumstance;
• I clinging to the words that were said;
• the belief that if I said it louder I would be heard; and
• the belief that I needed to stay to help her.

When I finally gave in and accepted that those things were not real, it became much easier to detach with love.

I was also able to apply that release to other toxic relationships in my life such as the ones with my mother and my daughter because many of the same things applied.

I had to learn to let go of the fear that if I did not feel obligated to help and 'save' them that they would reject me and the fear that came with the guilt from feeling that if I did not do what what they wanted, when they wanted, and how they wanted that I would somehow be harmed emotionally or physically. By releasing those fears,  the anxiety that was omnipresent in my life began to lessen. I was better able to respond and not just react out of fear.

[zachira]

The best tool I have found for detaching with love is meditation. I try to spend at least 30-60 minutes a day doing something that will allow me be quietly present with myself.  It can be just sitting quietly, and/or doing slow meditative moving like in Tai Chi, or going for a walk in nature. I have healed from some terrible traumas, like being excluded from Christmas by my family for no apparent reason, by using meditation, and also allowing myself to cry when I need to.
With a child the detachment is hard, because you will love your child until you die, and nobody every expects to have so much pain inflicted on them by their child.

[mggt]

Dear z,  WEll said especially about the child part  

[Meili]

With a child the detachment is hard, because you will love your child until you die, and nobody every expects to have so much pain inflicted on them by their child.

I think that a lot of people struggle with the understanding that detaching is the most loving gesture that you can do for another. We have a tendency to want to protect the people that we love from harm, and that includes the consequences of their actions. We can quickly become enablers and perpetuate the problems.

We have to look at what we fear will happen if we detach, but not stop loving, the people in our lives. Are we afraid that the other person will completely disappear from our lives if we stop our own, destructive behaviors?

What exactly are the fears?

[1hope]

Meili,
I'm not sure about everyone else, but one of my biggest fears is losing my DD18.  She has had several suicide attempts.  My biggest challenge when I'm trying to use the tools I've read about here is the thought that I don't want to trigger another attempt.  The doctors tell us that "only 10 percent of BPDs actually commit suicide".  I find that absolutely frustrating!  How can they know if my DD is one of the 10%?  I'm struggling with how to move forward with the tools when I feel this way, and I have been talking to my therapist about it.   Baby steps... .

1hope

[wendydarling]

Hope1 I so get where you are, let's all work through this together in this workshop, I'm giving myself permission to ramble.  

My starting point here today is how did my parents detach with love with me?  

Did my parents detach with me, or did I detach from them?

I detached from them. I started out very young it’s been a long journey a good one, also a painful one on occasions.

In their view I was making the wrong life choices and decisions based on their fears, experience and knowledge, and that was from an early age. Yep, please let me go, all consequences are mine.

My father measured me and sibs against my mother who was stuck in fear which I now understand she learnt from her father, my grandfather who died before I was born.  Turn it on it on its head. My father controlled everything money –it was the times, she was a 'privileged' housewife - he enabled my Mum to be dependent and not grow herself, to continue to live fear.  Enmeshed and on it goes. A healthy partnership is interdependence.

My mother is 92 (tonight she is in hospital under observation), until 10 years ago she would ask me about every 5 years or so when will you come home (to be near to her and other family members?).  I'm happy here, my life is here, she visited my home once 26 years ago, when my daughter was 3.

My father passed in 2015 at the ripe age of 94 and 3 quarters. He let me go of his fears when he saw I could cope as a single parent and financially and he finally understood my work mission was for the benefit of our world community. He was dead against me living in one of the most expensive capitals in the world, his issue of having nothing WW2, his rations not mine.  

That said my father is one of the most empathetic gentlemen I have met, along the way he stood in my shoes and me in his. He gifted me hope, joy and love.

One issue is I was a daughter and a woman whose partner of 10 years had left 2 months before the birth of our child. My parents conceived out of wedlock in 1946 and were shamed by their parents and family.  Announcing our happy news ended up the most painful experience of my life, for my Mother to say I was the biggest disappointment of her life.  My partner ran 2 months before birth of our child into the arms of another woman. That’s another story for another time. My mother reeled her shame on me, what I needed was her loving support, that she could not give.

I detached from my parents with love, and yes I do love them, I have been very privileged they lived long, their honeymoon was in their last 30 years post Dad's retirement and they so deserve that, it's been wonderful to share their happiness and peace.

I’ve raised an emotionally sensitive child as a single parent, here I am in the best of good company who understand, learning with you.

My moment of detachment as parent was when DD hit crisis, attempts in 2015, such a shock. That moment of standing in my lounge all alone will be with me forever. I took a deep breath and accepted I can not save her life but boy she can and is.

Allow them, me too

WDx  

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[qcarolr]

Here is a quote made by ArleighBurke on 12/31/17 that reflects my process of detaching and loving my DD31. I did not realize I was in this process for the past 4 years. It became clear to me after reading this in the post.

":)etaching with love means that you have to find a way to love your child, but accept that they have control over their own life -  that as much as it pains you, as much as you WANT the best for them, and will do anything for them - that they actually control their OWN life. You need to accept that you can only help them if they want help. That you can offer them advice, guidance, support, but it is THEIR choice whether to take it or not. And whether they do or not, you love them anyway.

Somehow, you need to release them as "your child" as start to see them as "your friend". Independent from you. Their problems are not yours. You can care - but you cannot be influenced by the outcome of whatever they do. "

It has also helped me a great amount for DD31 to be living in another state, even though my financial investment is greater there to help her with a place to live. She is forced to figure things out more independently. I am forced to let her make the choices and live with them. And I am able to love her unconditionally every moment of the day.

carol

[wendydarling]

Meili,
I'm not sure about everyone else, but one of my biggest fears is losing my DD18.  She has had several suicide attempts.  My biggest challenge when I'm trying to use the tools I've read about here is the thought that I don't want to trigger another attempt.  The doctors tell us that "only 10 percent of BPDs actually commit suicide".  I find that absolutely frustrating!  How can they know if my DD is one of the 10%?  I'm struggling with how to move forward with the tools when I feel this way, and I have been talking to my therapist about it.   Baby steps... .

1hope

It is the most unbearable fear for us parents, I'm with you 1Hope, to lose a child is catastrophic. If you have the thought you may trigger your DD using the tools and skills we learn here, are your fears of triggering also in your day to day life?  I get you, you are in the cycle of attempts and fear just ramps up, I recognise where you are.

I like to think I've conquered my fear, I feel as though I have. What helped me was acknowledging to myself I'm doing my very best and if my DD completed I’d done everything I could for her knowing what I knew at the time.

I know this sounds awful everyone but I’ve also done some preparation how I may feel and what I’d do, who I’d contact in the event of, for immediate support …... through to how we’d celebrate her life.  Somehow it has helped me emotionally and released me to focus on what I needed to do to focus on me and my needs. I had felt stuck, trapped and paralysed by fear, I was now moving forwards, I accepted that I may lose her.  I felt healthier, which must sound a bizarre way to get there to many. I was releasing myself from her suffering, feeling my pain and facing my fear. While my DD is slowly progressing her way through remission to moving to work through recovery stages  I don’t kid myself that at some point in her future life she may hit crisis, I am however hopeful that she can reach out for help and my learning skills here contributes towards that. As qcarolr shares it's a process and sometimes we are not aware of the progress we make through working on and investing in ourselves until we have a period of time to look back on reflect and realise we are detaching with love. I have 3 years to look back. The dreaded 10% figure 1Hope I understand your frustration, I've come to accept it, and focus on the 90%.

I have just watched this webinar from November 2017 from McLean Hospital a Harvard Medical School Affiliate in Boston & hosted by Mark A. Schechter, MD, North Shore Medical Center and found it very helpful, the big take away for me continues to be my role with everyone on suicide prevention, I’m glad you raised your fear 1Hope and by doing so helping others to speak out here.

Suicide: Myths, Realities, and What We Can Do to Help

My experience of the tools, they can feel counter intuitive to begin with as others often say and do take time to prepare and practice …. it’s not a race. Practising on family, friends colleagues, meetings you attend, neighbours, anyone you come into contact with can provide confidence, how they work and how we can use in different situations. For me there are certain tools I have focused on as we know our situations are unique. My DD is quiet, she does not rage. What’s helped us is me working on developing my skills to listen with empathy and ‘double validation’, it’s not that I’m necessarily lacking with, DD needs more from me there, I recognised I needed to up my game. And an example of that is she now talks more about her feelings, challenges, she feels more supported and understood and for me coming back to the fear of suicide makes me feel more confident in my role on suicide prevention.

I hope my take is helpful …… it’s such a biggie for us all and important we share and support each other and I thank you for that 1Hope  

[Liveagain2017]

I am new to this. Learning to detach is still really hard. How do I detach when my husband is coming after me accusing me and my mom being too dirty, accusing me of making him hate his mother so that he couldn't treat her nicely before she died, accusing me of spoiling our daughter and taking away her ability of being independent, on and on and on. I know I should just ignore all of these, but it's so hard when the person in your life suppose to be the closest to you is actually the one treats you the worst. Do I just walk away? My fear is if I don't stand up for myself, he will just blow everything out of proportion and it could go on for days. He picks on me, my daughter, my parents, then he is angry with the loosing hockey team, the horrible traffic, the not very polite restaurant waiter and anything and everything comes in between. Yes the biggest obstacle between me and detach is fear - the fear of him loosing control and making the situation worse. I have a 9 year old daughter and I am scared when he is angry. I shied my daughter from his anger by spending hours to calm him down. But my life becomes just about his anger. I don't know how to walk away.

[1hope]

Wendydarling,
Thanks so much for your thoughtful response.  I know this is a long process of continuous learning.  This site is so helpful, since I can "talk" to caring people like you that understand what I'm going through.  Knowing I'm not alone really helps.  My daughter, like yours, doesn't rage, she turns inward.  I have learned so much from you already. Thank you! 
1hope

[qcarolr]

Yes the biggest obstacle between me and detach is fear - the fear of him loosing control and making the situation worse. I have a 9 year old daughter and I am scared when he is angry. I shield my daughter from his anger by spending hours to calm him down. But my life becomes just about his anger. I don't know how to walk away.

Liveagain, detachment does not come naturally. It takes healing self to a point where life is about more than his anger. I get it. It is a process, so don't be too hard on yourself. Is your husband the pwBPD in your life? A really good book, that has helped me love my daughter, is "Loving someone with BPD", Shari Manning. It gave me tools that worked in connecting with my DD in more healthy ways while taking care of myself and my granddaughter. I have been working this process for several years with lots of ups and downs. Emotional detachment gives me the space I need to still love my DD. There are many other tools and lessons in the sidebar that have helped me too.

carol

[mggt]

I have such a hard time with this how to detach with love  especially when there are gc involved  .  My BPD never learns from her mistakes just keeps on making same one over and over again,  they dont learn from tough love, so how do you help vs enabling ,  How do I detach when she has 2 children which we adore,  how do you stand by not say anything and detach with love or resentments  .  It sounds so easy  let them make there own mistakes dont help let them suffer the consequences but they dont learn from it same thing different day .  Very frustrating on us parents when there are innocent children involved .  Im constantly conflicted on how to help how much to help when to help and when to just throw my hands up and say there is nothing I can do anymore for her .  Our d doesnt appreciate any thing we do for her or our gc  that is just the way it is with her and always will be   .   

[Meili]

First, I think that we need to avoid statements like "they don't learn." BPD is a spectrum disorder and each person presenting traits has their own, unique constellation of those traits. But, that does not directly address what you are saying.

Most of us get caught by our own fears and pains when trying to detach with love. We seek to avoid our own discomforts. None of us want to watch our children or grandchildren struggle and not have the best possible lives that they can have. Feeling helpless and having to watch others get hurt by our pwBPD is hard. We want to protect those that we care about. The harsh reality is that sometimes it isn't our place to do so. For instance, my daughter says things to my granddaughter that I dislike and would never say for fear of how it would effect her. But, she is my daughter's child and my daughter gets to decide how she raises her child. I am powerless in that situation.

Are the grandchildren in any danger? Are they being neglected or abused? Would one of the consequences of your pwBPD's actions be that he/she loses the gc because the gc is/are in danger? Can you give us an example of what you are talking about?

[mggt]

In our expierence our d does not learn its ground hog everyday  her anger swearing at children accusing me and h of terrible things .  It doesnt matter what its very disturbing her accusations bringing home men to her bed 2 weeks after break up with gs fathers cant be alone needs a guy no matter how much  of a loser they are my gd telling us what she sees her mom doing . This has been going on with her for years nothing has changed with her the only thing that has changed is the danger she now poses with her children because she doesnt have what it takes to put her kids first  This is OUR expierence with our d not everyone has same expierence but this is what we have been dealing with since she was a very young girl  poor impulsitivity sex drugs drinking car accidents speeding  tickets arrests sleeping around always blaming other people for her actions black white thinking no friends she cant keep them spending  money she doesnt have lying and stealing cheating attacking me and my h verlbally and physcially .  BTW we are great parents took her to every possible therapist , phys , class , residential treatment .

[Tattered Heart]

Detaching with love for me meant that I had to get out of the way and let my H learn to deal with life's setbacks on his own. I got the point where I realized that I stepped in to relieve any negative feelings he had from the world (and from me). I would comfort, soothe, walk on egg shells, etc. to prevent him from being sad or hurt or angry. But did that really work? No. He was still sad, hurt, and angry.  I was just running in circles trying to fix the world and keeping him in a safe bubble.

So, when life gets hard for my H, I don't try to soften the harshness of it. I ask him validating questions that allow him to process his own feelings and emotions. I ask him things to help him brainstorm ideas and find his own resolutions. It's worked VERY well. Instead of projecting onto me, the one who was fixing life for him, he now is forced to look at his own emotional state. And in doing that he has come up with some of his own tactics for dealing with impatience, irritation, sadness, etc. I no longer have to invest my emotions into his problems.

[Lollypop]

Hey Tattered Heart

I see where you’re coming from. Without the right approach they still stay angry, frustrated or whatever it is. This is part of Detaching in a very practical sense.

Could give a few examples of the kind of validating questions you find that work well for you?


LP

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[qcarolr]

I have such a hard time with this how to detach with love  especially when there are gc involved  .  My BPD never learns from her mistakes just keeps on making same one over and over again,  they dont learn from tough love, so how do you help vs enabling ,  How do I detach when she has 2 children which we adore,  how do you stand by not say anything and detach with love or resentments  .  It sounds so easy  let them make there own mistakes dont help let them suffer the consequences but they dont learn from it same thing different day .  Very frustrating on us parents when there are innocent children involved .  Im constantly conflicted on how to help how much to help when to help and when to just throw my hands up and say there is nothing I can do anymore for her .  Our d doesnt appreciate any thing we do for her or our gc  that is just the way it is with her and always will be   .   

mggt, I know you have been struggling with this for many years. You have been here for me many times with my DD31 and gd12. Sometimes I just choke when I read (or hear) the words ":)etach with love". How can those words even go together! Another way I think about this is "Love her no matter what while keeping strong personal values-based boundaries". Detach with love is a lot easier to say.  It is an emotional detachment, not going no contact. It is seeking any small way to make a connection without any expectations about how you DD will respond. I get into trouble when I expect my DD31 to change - to learn from her mistakes. When she is unable to take personal responsibility for her actions there is no way for her to learn. In her mind she is not doing anything wrong. As I have taken care of my own needs - therapy, groups, faith, friends, my interests (not being available for DD because I am truly busy) - taking good care of my marriage... .I have come to be able to let go of my expectations for DD31. This has put her in a position first to be really really angry at me because I am not her scapegoat anymore. I just don't take ownership of her troubles. I can listen, I can offer "Have you thought of trying... .". I can tell her I am taking a time out on the phone and then hang up and turn the sound off for an hour (you have to tell her to call back in an hour so she doesn't take this as abandonment as strongly). I have learned to tolerate silence in talking to her -- not jumping in with all the solutions to whatever the situation is.

Loving our gkids is so complicated. If we give gd12 attention, then DD31 feels like she is being shorted attention. It sounds like you have a relationship with your gkids. This is so valuable for them - to have healthy attachment modeled for them. You also can use all you validating skills with them -- they work on everyone, including self. You can be an active listener - a form of validation.

You get to choose what you give and what you take in these relationships - and you can do this without feeling guilt. You are modeling a healthier way to be in a relationship for your D as well. Without expectations that she will 'get it'.

carol
I care so much for you to get through this tough time mggt. I hope to see you on the parent board.

[Tattered Heart]

Hey Tattered Heart

I see where you’re coming from. Without the right approach they still stay angry, frustrated or whatever it is. This is part of Detaching in a very practical sense.

Could give a few examples of the kind of validating questions you find that work well for you?

Some of the things I might ask are:
How does/did that make you feel?
What does X look like to you? (For ex, "what does being respected look like to you?"
Can you give me an example? (If he is being vague)
What do you mean when you say... .? (To get him to explain it more detailed. Again, when he is being vague)

And my absolute favorite:
What do you want to happen in this situation?
with the follow up of What role can you play in moving towards what you want to happen?

[Meili]

I think that Tattered Heart and qcarolr are making some really good points about what it looks like when we detach with love and the importance that validation plays.

We have to separate our emotions from those of others lest we get drained and lose ourselves because all of our energies are being given to another person. There are healthier ways to that we can all learn to handle the people in our respective worlds.

[waitingwife]

Some of the things I might ask are:
How does/did that make you feel?
What does X look like to you? (For ex, "what does being respected look like to you?"
Can you give me an example? (If he is being vague)
What do you mean when you say... .? (To get him to explain it more detailed. Again, when he is being vague)

And my absolute favorite:
What do you want to happen in this situation?
with the follow up of What role can you play in moving towards what you want to happen?

These are some wonderful reflecting questions. Detaching with love for me was mainly getting over my feeling of "I am being mean" when I draw a boundary when it came to uBPDH or friends & family. Reading and joining this BPD family definitely gave me the insight into my "usual ways" had stopped working and making me feel fulfilled in a way that felt healthy. I was getting enmeshed with H and my FOO that I had to really look deep into my identity. I needed the extra help of a Therapist because I had a lot of FOO issues that I wasn't even aware of that were triggering me into behaving in a certain rescuing way that led to circular arguments. The biggest thing my T did was to help me recognize what was truly in my control and how I was so focused on the things that were not in my control. It seems really easy while reading but it took 3 years of intermittent therapy. After I gained the clarity, I learnt to take care of myself and really listen to my heart which now seems like the most organic way to live. I came to a point in my marriage where I questioned how could we go on because all I wanted for was for uBPDH to seek help to make our marriage better. I was fortunate to have a wonderful therapist who supported me through the feelings of pain & hurt and reach acceptance. Radical acceptance opened up space in our relationship and using the tools here slowly led for H to seek help from a different therapist. He is now in therapy and also on medication to help with anxiety/depression. After a lot of hard work, I truly feel like we have come to a place where we're using each other's strengths in lifting our family. When I reflect back, I can totally see what we were doing wrong when it was about control. One of my favorite question for H is - Is "... ." in your control? (For example, when he wants a friend/relative to act/do a certain way)
TH- your validating questions are so awesome, do you have more of those that work for you? My H also is very short on patience and pretty much gets upset when the car ahead of him is driving slow. He also sometimes can vent about work and put down his manager. Sometimes, these frustrations are valid and I vent about my work too. What is the approach you use during such venting to reflect with H?

[qcarolr]

The biggest thing my T did was to help me recognize what was truly in my control and how I was so focused on the things that were not in my control. It seems really easy while reading but it took 3 years of intermittent therapy. After I gained the clarity, I learnt to take care of myself and really listen to my heart which now seems like the most organic way to live. I came to a point in my marriage where I questioned how could we go on because all I wanted for was for uBPDH to seek help to make our marriage better. I was fortunate to have a wonderful therapist who supported me through the feelings of pain & hurt and reach acceptance. Radical acceptance opened up space in our relationship and using the tools here slowly led for H to seek help from a different therapist.

Radical acceptance was a concept that was an essential learning step for me several years ago. I practice it still though I do not have to stop and think about it. I struggled mightily with this for a couple years. It helped me to see the many ways I was enmeshed with my DD31. Thanks for sharing your experience with your H.

carol

[mggt]

Dear Carol, Thank you for kind response.   

[Tattered Heart]

I found a lot of them from our post on Validating Questions

[waitingwife]

I found a lot of them from our post on Validating Questions

Thanks a lot, I’ll read this post. Sometimes a refresher is very helpful.

[MomMae]

For me, detaching with love was a process that really started with finding this forum last April.  Until that point, I was wallowing in self-blame and shame and I cannot express the relief I felt when I started reading the stories of others on this site and realizing I truly wasn’t alone and that my reactions and emotions weren’t abnormal.  I would have to say that the “help” we had received from our local hospital and mental health experts was far from helpful…actually it had set our DD, 19 at the time, into a tailspin more than once.  They were nice enough, but to be asked repeatedly by the “experts” why, why my daughter, who came from a good family, was thriving in college and at work, was behaving the way she was, was beyond frustrating.   If even the supposed experts didn’t understand it, it certainly made me question myself and lose faith that things could change.  So when I found that I wasn’t alone or crazy, I think it gave me the confidence to change my approach, which up until that point had been to pass on the “why, why?” to DD and to try to offer solutions for everything.

For me, detaching with love did not/could not involve going no contact with her if I had any say in it.  I am a big believer in following ones instincts and going no contact when I knew she was in a dangerous situation (living in a garage with her less than desirable boyfriend, out in the middle of nowhere, surrounded by some very scary people and eating next to nothing) was not an option.  I felt in my heart that going no contact/no support would play into her skewed thinking that we were better off without her and that we didn’t care (abandonment issues).  I felt that doing so could put her life more at risk than it was.  I pulled back my contact and became more matter-of-fact in my dealings but still invited her to things and we still supported her by dropping off food, etc.   If she declined an invitation, I just said okay and did not play the victim as I used to. 

I guess in my ramble here, I am trying to say that for me, detaching with love was a matter of me letting go of the shame and guilt, keeping my emotions in check and going about my own life with my husband as best we could while still maintaining loving, but matter-of-fact contact, mainly by text, with my daughter.  And lo and behold, things started to change.  It was a process, but slowly things started to change and she improved her life and started to make better choices.  There were indeed major crises that came up including two pregnancies, one ending in an emotionally painful miscarriage in July, after much deliberation of whether to terminate or not.  That was followed quickly by another pregnancy in September which she very maturely handled arranging termination on her own.  Not ideal by any means, but we came through it with our relationship intact, stronger.

She is now living in town in an apartment very close to us, with her same boyfriend, who we have somehow come to accept despite a horrific start to our relationship.  A year ago I would have laughed if someone told my we would spend our next Christmas with him, yet we did and it was fine.  He has even self-improved along with my daughter.  My relationship with DD, now 21, is now quite good.  I am very careful with how I interact with her.  I do a lot of just listening, and when if I do offer advice I am oh, so very careful how I phrase it.  A lot of “I don’t know if this would work but maybe you could….” type of phrasing, which seems to go over well.  She actually listens, and often follows suggestions of advice. 

Yes, we still walk on eggshells and probably always will. We still know that the next crisis could be just around the corner.   But it will be her crisis, not ours – at least that is what we will strive for.  She is back in our life, and she is acting like our daughter again and is happy to have us as her parents.   

The only thing that has changed is my approach and I believe it has worked.  I sat back and let her take responsibility for her own life and choices.  I let go of my dreams for her and decided to just be happy to have her alive and in our life.  I detached with love.  And I am very fortunate that in my daughter’s case, it seems to be what she needed from me, as much as I needed to do it for myself.