Would they lie about being cheated on?

[araneina]

My ex bf who I suspect is NPD/BPD talked CONSTANTLY about how his exes cheated on him.  He's had one long term relationship with a girl that he said he wanted to marry, but they were rocky and eventually she cheated on him.  He said to me he was unable to love or be loved, that he could count on the same number of fingers how many women he's loved and how many of them cheated on him.

Ironically 2 weeks after he ended things with me he was FB official with a girl he claimed was "his friend" about 3 months prior.  Uh huh.  Ok.  When I accused him he used his past of being cheated on as reason for why he'd never cheat on me.  Unfortunately I know he is capable of cheating - he once informed me he cheated on a girlfriend of his as revenge for when she yelled out another man's name during sex.  I guess cheating is okay so long as it's justified.     I recall being appalled at how shameless he was about telling me that.

I am not proud of this - I read his journal.  He gave me his house key around the 1 month mark and frequently said things like "You should snoop around my house, go through my things, read my journal."  Finally... .I did.  His journal was scary, painful... .mostly sad.  He wrote about several of his relationships. He broke up a total of 9 times with his 3-year ex, and in the 2 long entries about her never once did he mention she cheated on him.  In fact, in the several entries about his relationships he never mentioned being cheated on.  He told me he contacted his 3-year ex last year (they broke up 5 years ago... yeah, he wasn't over her), and asked her why she cheated on him.  He said she couldn't remember cheating on him.

Why would he lie about that? To garner sympathy?  I know no one really has the answer here, but it's always been something I've been curious about.  What's the point of lying about being cheated on?

On a side note... .(and yes I know reading his journal was terrible and I am exploring this with my T), there was a very interesting trend in his journal entries.  He'd meet a girl and right off the bat: "So-and-so is THEEE one, she is the girl for me!"  Then 2, 3 months later: "Well, so-and-so wasn't the one.  I've never met someone so (boring/unambitious/unfunny)."  The only girl who didn't receive this treatment was the one who had broken up with him after about a month of dating.  Her final journal entry was a long, sappy note about how much she meant to him and how he would always miss her.

I'd hate to read what he wrote about me.  Yikes.

[bus boy]

Hi, BPD / NPD would lie about anything and everything

[Jeffree]

BPDs can lie about anything... .so can plenty of other people.

Sounds to me he's so conflicted about cheating on others that he's packaged it to himself and others as them cheating on him. It might not be lying in the true sense, but a break with reality that even he isn't in touch with.

I'll give you a for instance... .

One of the big moments that my NPDex liked to use against me was when "I threw her across the kitchen."

What actually happened was that during an argument she came downstairs mostly naked, got up in my face and made a motion like she was going to hit me.

I pushed her out of my face, and she lost her balance and fell two feet back and up against our kitchen cabinets because she was taken aback that I would actually defend myself.

At first she referred to it as "that time", then it was I pushed her up against the cabinets, then it was I pushed her and slammed her head against the cabinets, until finally it was that I had thrown her across the kitchen.

First they lie to themselves so they can lie to others without owning the fact that they are fabricating truths and manipulating us.

My STBx also liked to tell me how I wasn't sorry for this incident. Yet, not only did I apologize profusely time and time again, even offered to have the relationship be over because I broke a promise to myself that I would never put my hands on a woman, and also apologized within the context of marriage counseling with two different therapists, and still she will tell anyone who will listen that I threw her across the kitchen and slammed her head against the cabinets and screamed in her face and never apologized.

She does this to justify all the horrendous things she has done to me, since this proves to her that I deserved it.

[TurbanCowboy]

My ex bf who I suspect is NPD/BPD talked CONSTANTLY about how his exes cheated on him.  He's had one long term relationship with a girl that he said he wanted to marry, but they were rocky and eventually she cheated on him.  He said to me he was unable to love or be loved, that he could count on the same number of fingers how many women he's loved and how many of them cheated on him.

Ironically 2 weeks after he ended things with me he was FB official with a girl he claimed was "his friend" about 3 months prior.  Uh huh.  Ok.  When I accused him he used his past of being cheated on as reason for why he'd never cheat on me.  Unfortunately I know he is capable of cheating - he once informed me he cheated on a girlfriend of his as revenge for when she yelled out another man's name during sex.  I guess cheating is okay so long as it's justified.     I recall being appalled at how shameless he was about telling me that.

I am not proud of this - I read his journal.  He gave me his house key around the 1 month mark and frequently said things like "You should snoop around my house, go through my things, read my journal."  Finally... .I did.  His journal was scary, painful... .mostly sad.  He wrote about several of his relationships. He broke up a total of 9 times with his 3-year ex, and in the 2 long entries about her never once did he mention she cheated on him.  In fact, in the several entries about his relationships he never mentioned being cheated on.  He told me he contacted his 3-year ex last year (they broke up 5 years ago... yeah, he wasn't over her), and asked her why she cheated on him.  He said she couldn't remember cheating on him.

Why would he lie about that? To garner sympathy?  I know no one really has the answer here, but it's always been something I've been curious about.  What's the point of lying about being cheated on?

On a side note... .(and yes I know reading his journal was terrible and I am exploring this with my T), there was a very interesting trend in his journal entries.  He'd meet a girl and right off the bat: "So-and-so is THEEE one, she is the girl for me!"  Then 2, 3 months later: "Well, so-and-so wasn't the one.  I've never met someone so (boring/unambitious/unfunny)."  The only girl who didn't receive this treatment was the one who had broken up with him after about a month of dating.  Her final journal entry was a long, sappy note about how much she meant to him and how he would always miss her.

I'd hate to read what he wrote about me.  Yikes.

My uBPD wife that I’m now separated from used to constantly call white girls sluts and had an unhealthy dislike/obsession for blonde girls. My wife is Latina.

My wife had an affair this summer and is now moving the guy into our house.

I listened to this crap for 10 years. I now think she may have been projecting herself onto others.

She constantly worried about me cheating and it poisoned our relationship and created resentment.

[araneina]

BPDs can lie about anything... .so can plenty of other people.

Sounds to me he's so conflicted about cheating on others that he's packaged it to himself and others as them cheating on him. It might not be lying in the true sense, but a break with reality that even he isn't in touch with.
 

Yes... .I often wonder if this is the case.  He was fantastic at playing the victim - everything was someone else's fault.  At the beginning I always thought "Poor guy.  He's so sweet and charming, it sucks that he had such awful girlfriends."

But now, knowing him... .I am not saying he's a bad man, but he could be so deluded.  I mean, the example I stated where he shamelessly told me how he cheated on an ex because he *thought* she was cheating on him... .oof.  I must have been wearing some thick rose-colored glasses then.

I triggered him by going away by myself on a vacation that I had originally invited him on (long story), and I've often thought he took that as indication that I was not to be trusted and that's when he started this thing up with the replacement. Immediately after I got back from that trip everything went downhill.

Thank you everyone for your insight.  It hurts a lot to think I was cheated on, but... .I can't say I'm really surprised.  "Those unable to trust cannot be trusted."

[Jeffree]

I believe the beginning of the end for me and my STBx was when I had asked that we be in separate bedrooms.

Her reaction was literally insane. She screamed and screamed, veins popping out of her neck, then started to throw my stuff all about the room. It was like a murderous rage, only she didn't try to kill me, thank God.

What I didn't get was that she hadn't been affectionate with me in forever and was pretty much taking in everything I was doing to keep things together in the worst way possible... .why in the world would she want to continue the charade that we were any sort of married couple.

This is what I mean by lying to themselves. Is she this cold-hearted tough person who could give two poops about me, or is she some kind of love-lorn spouse who would give me all the love in the world if only I could treat her right?

I don't even think she knows the answer to that one.

[araneina]

I believe the beginning of the end for me and my STBx was when I had asked that we be in separate bedrooms.

Her reaction was literally insane. She screamed and screamed, veins popping out of her neck, then started to throw my stuff all about the room. It was like a murderous rage, only she didn't try to kill me, thank God.

What I didn't get was that she hadn't been affectionate with me in forever and was pretty much taking in everything I was doing to keep things together in the worst way possible... .why in the world would she want to continue the charade that we were any sort of married couple.

This is what I mean by lying to themselves. Is she this cold-hearted tough person who could give two poops about me, or is she some kind of love-lorn spouse who would give me all the love in the world if only I could treat her right?

I don't even think she knows the answer to that one.

Yeah... .it's strange.  Mine never raged (although he admitted when he was younger he used to be verbally and physically violent) but yes, at the end of things he wasn't affectionate with me either.  After I accused him of cheating he got pretty mean and claimed I sent him mixed messages, that he only stayed with me out of guilt and that he'd tried to break up with me but I kept pressuring him to stay.  Which yes, I did - but I also recall the time I broke up with him and he showed up drunk at my doorstep a week later, or the other time when he texted me something that indicated it was over, I let it go, and the next day he was apologizing and wanting to see me.

I truly think he is a talented, intelligent, remarkable human being, but... .a very troubled one.  It's unfortunate.  As much as I hurt and am angry, I hope he finds happiness.  This new girl he's with lives 6 hours away so I anticipate this relationship will last much longer than ours did since he seems to be triggered by engulfment.  He said whenever I told him how much I cared about him it made him feel guilty.

[Jeffree]

The tricky part of thinking or saying "He said... ." is that it's nearly impossible to know what is actually true with someone like your ex from minute to minute. Chances are the person you thought you were with is really not that person at all.

My STBx, after I heard her having a hushed conversation at 3 a.m. then checking her cell phone records for who she was speaking to and finding out it was some guy in Arizona then texting her to spend less time speaking with so and so and more time taking care of her messy rooms, replied LOL. Then she had the audacity to try and sell me on it being a job opportunity. At 3 a.m.? 12 a.m. Arizona time? Really? Must have been a very important job. Meanwhile, she's not changed jobs.

Two weeks later she moved out because, as she kept saying, I was spying on her. 

Then at some point after she moved she told me she had to do it because she felt unsafe.

Yet, a month after she moved out I had to restrain HER from hitting the kids on their way back from a party where they didn't want her to drive because she had a few drinks.

For them the truth is just a tool for manipulating others into believing what they want them to believe.

[TurbanCowboy]

The tricky part of thinking or saying "He said... ." is that it's nearly impossible to know what is actually true with someone like your ex from minute to minute. Chances are the person you thought you were with is really not that person at all.

My STBx, after I heard her having a hushed conversation at 3 a.m. then checking her cell phone records for who she was speaking to and finding out it was some guy in Arizona then texting her to spend less time speaking with so and so and more time taking care of her messy rooms, replied LOL. Then she had the audacity to try and sell me on it being a job opportunity. At 3 a.m.? 12 a.m. Arizona time? Really? Must have been a very important job. Meanwhile, she's not changed jobs.

Two weeks later she moved out because, as she kept saying, I was spying on her. 

Then at some point after she moved she told me she had to do it because she felt unsafe.

Yet, a month after she moved out I had to restrain HER from hitting the kids on their way back from a party where they didn't want her to drive because she had a few drinks.

For them the truth is just a tool for manipulating others into believing what they want them to believe.

One of my biggest frustrations with my 10 year relationship.

I used to say all the time I wish there were video cameras recording us or that I wished I kept a journal because her recall of events was so off so often and it was creating unnecessary conflict.

Of course her recall always painted me as the bad guy.

I just don’t see how it’s remotely possible to have or sustain any kind of healthy relationship when feelings determine facts and I have to validate what she’s saying even if I know it’s wrong. In an adult relationship FACTS should be FACTS. It’s easy to overlook it in the beginning but after a while it gets old.

The inability to rationalize or get someone to accept any blame makes an emotionally healthy relationship impossible as well.

[araneina]

One of my biggest frustrations with my 10 year relationship.

I used to say all the time I wish there were video cameras recording us or that I wished I kept a journal because her recall of events was so off so often and it was creating unnecessary conflict.

Of course her recall always painted me as the bad guy.

I just don’t see how it’s remotely possible to have or sustain any kind of healthy relationship when feelings determine facts and I have to validate what she’s saying even if I know it’s wrong. In an adult relationship FACTS should be FACTS. It’s easy to overlook it in the beginning but after a while it gets old.

The inability to rationalize or get someone to accept any blame makes an emotionally healthy relationship impossible as well.

Mine was a very short relationship in comparison to yours but yes... .still, very similar.  He had an INFALLIBLE memory about a lot of things, but other things he either couldn't remember at all or was pretty far off base.  I remember asking him to help me understand a text he'd sent me once and he replied "I don't remember that."  At that point I was too tired to try and clarify it with him, which would have been as simple as pulling the text up on my phone (but would likely have resulted in him getting overly defensive).

I'm inclined to believe that HE believes he was cheated on... .but not so sure if he ever actually was.  Weird.

I've never apologized so much and so often, and frequently for things I didn't need to apologize for, than I did in this relationship.  Through therapy I'm hoping to understand how I attracted this kind of person and how to avoid them in the future.

[TurbanCowboy]

Mine was a very short relationship in comparison to yours but yes... .still, very similar.  He had an INFALLIBLE memory about a lot of things, but other things he either couldn't remember at all or was pretty far off base.  I remember asking him to help me understand a text he'd sent me once and he replied "I don't remember that."  At that point I was too tired to try and clarify it with him, which would have been as simple as pulling the text up on my phone (but would likely have resulted in him getting overly defensive).

I'm inclined to believe that HE believes he was cheated on... .but not so sure if he ever actually was.  Weird.

I've never apologized so much and so often, and frequently for things I didn't need to apologize for, than I did in this relationship.  Through therapy I'm hoping to understand how I attracted this kind of person and how to avoid them in the future.

I was apologizing for everything in an effort to save the marriage before I read about BPD and all I accomplished by doing that was validating in her mind that I was the entire problem.

She’s not capable of understand that maybe I was overcompensating since she was unwilling to accept blame for anything.

It’s this behavior that I keep remembering however to ease the pain of the marriage ending. 

[araneina]

I was apologizing for everything in an effort to save the marriage before I read about BPD and all I accomplished by doing that was validating in her mind that I was the entire problem.

She’s not capable of understand that maybe I was overcompensating since she was unwilling to accept blame for anything.

It’s this behavior that I keep remembering however to ease the pain of the marriage ending. 

I'm so sorry you had to endure that.  As much as I cared for my ex, I am relieved it only lasted as long as it did.  I can't imagine being married to it. 

The constant apologizing was exhausting for me and I only had to do it for a few months.  I hope you are finding some peace. 

[Jeffree]

The lying is so insidious. It colors the whole trajectory of the relationship unbeknownst to us and can suck us into being with someone who we don't really know telling a story that isn't real. In the end it leaves us feeling crushed because we don't know what was real what wasn't, who this person really is and what they are capable of, and totally unsure of what their motive was in being with us while we're left holding the bag.

It borders on criminal behavior. If they fleeced a bank out of money this way, they'd be in jail. Instead, since they're "just" fleecing us out of our hearts, they get to go from victim to victim spewing their tales of woes unfettered.

J

[araneina]

The lying is so insidious. It colors the whole trajectory of the relationship unbeknownst to us and can suck us into being with someone who we don't really know telling a story that isn't real. In the end it leaves us feeling crushed because we don't know what was real what wasn't, who this person really is and what they are capable of, and totally unsure of what their motive was in being with us while we're left holding the bag.

It borders on criminal behavior. If they fleeced a bank out of money this way, they'd be in jail. Instead, since they're "just" fleecing us out of our hearts, they get to go from victim to victim spewing their tales of woes unfettered.

J

It's true.  I was telling my therapist this.  My ex claimed a lot of things with me were "firsts," and now I'm left wondering if any of that was true.  It hurts.  As you said, why was he with me?  What was he using me for?  I have my suspicions.  He cried a lot... .very easily.  For me it made me believe everything that much more.  Hell, he cried when he broke up with me.  I actually asked him if he was okay!  After he'd broken up with me.  It's almost kind of laughable.

I genuinely feel sorry for my replacement.  I have a weird suspicion he might seriously invest in her (they've known each other at least 5 months), but I have no doubts that it will not be a happy experience for her.  She's a nurse, so part of me hopes maybe she'll recognize his illness and help him get some help.  I tried suggesting he get help for himself and he twisted it around and made me out to be the crazy one.

[Jeffree]

But they believe their lies (or dysfunctional interpretation of events)  so that's also tricky.

I've seen it so often with both my exes. It's as though their psychological well being depends so much on their white and black thinking that they just can't let go of the narrative they tell themselves about us.

You sit there and try to clarify your intentions, words, actions, etc., or whatever they're flying off the handle about, and there comes a point where you just have to either accept that they're just going to see things in their warped way or you give up completely trying to stay grounded with them in reality.

Somehow in her mind my STBx justified moving out and leaving behind her bio kids and three pets with me. I think anyone's first thought about the mental outlook of a parent (especially a mother) who abandons her kids like that and leaving them with the other apparently unsafe step spouse would be very grim.

Yet at the same time somewhere in her warped thoughts must flicker the idea that I am safe enough to leave her most important people and pets under my supervision, and somehow she can make those two entirely different thoughts work so that she can go about her life.

I believe her thinking is that I am mean to just her and nice to everyone else, thereby being the worst kind of person. Oh. OK.
 

[araneina]

But they believe their lies (or dysfunctional interpretation of events)  so that's also tricky.

I've seen it so often with both my exes. It's as though their psychological well being depends so much on their white and black thinking that they just can't let go of the narrative they tell themselves about us.

You sit there and try to clarify your intentions, words, actions, etc., or whatever they're flying off the handle about, and there comes a point where you just have to either accept that they're just going to see things in their warped way or you give up completely trying to stay grounded with them in reality.

Yes I have no doubt he believes what he was saying.  And what do I know - I'm sure somewhere down the road he had been cheated on.

It's so frustrating, isn't it?  After the drunk phone calls, the times he was crying on the phone telling me he was feeling suicidal,  the times he told me he felt "empty," and "lost," and "destined to live his life alone," when I finally told him I thought he was mentally unwell and needed help he said it was NONE of my business, my concern was unwarranted, and his problems were his problems and he can handle them alone.  Oh, and maybe I'm the one that needs help.

My reply?  Yeah, maybe I do.  And I took the steps to address that and now I'm in therapy.  He buries his head in self-help books, convinced that he can do it all on his own.

How have you been managing this?  Do you have friends/family/therapist that you can talk to about this?

[Jeffree]

Recently my father became gravely ill and passed away just after the New Year this year.

The week leading up to his demise my STBx kept trying to send her condolences. I wasn't having it because when he was alive and made the one trip to our home she called him an idiot to me and there was another incident after that around my birthday where she basically wrote off him and my sister in a very disrespectful way to me. Great timing, of course.

The NYE weekend I spent in the hospital at my dad's bedside she used to come to my house to move some of her stuff with her sister. They ate my food, left pistachio shells on the floor, and slept over as if it was still her house. Whatever. I was worried about much bigger things than those two fools.
 
Then after she had heard he passed, I got another note from her.

Consistently, I told her via email that I am not interested in her condolences and that she should save them for people she actually gives a crap about.

Well, she took that opportunity to tell me I need help.

Yet I have been in individual therapy with our last marriage counselor for well over a year, which she knows, and she justifies her lack of being in her own therapy by saying she's too busy.

That was her fallback excuse for not doing many of the normal obligations of married life: "I'm too busy with work," which she only is because the rest of her time she spends on all her beauty prepaprations--nails, hair coloring, eyelashes, eyebrows, etc.

Anyhoo, yes... .I am in therapy working out everything that resulted from my marriage to BPDSTBx. I'm fine. Just trying to help others here and learn more along the way.

Thanks!

J

[araneina]

During our last encounter my ex accused me (in his most apologetic tone possible) of sending him harrassing texts from an anonymous number.  I told him no, and I wanted nothing to do with him. He said "I know you hate me and I'm sorry, so sorry.  I will never bug you again."  And I believe him.  Thank goodness.  Is there a reason you keep replying to your ex?

"Too busy."  Yes, I got that too.  He had terrible sleep apnea and I gently told him I was worried about him.  He said he knew, an ex had told him, but he appreciated my concern and would see a doctor.  He never did.  Instead he continued to nap throughout the day and complain of being tired all the time.  I asked him once why he never saw a doctor.  He said he was too busy and just decided he'd quit smoking first.  He smoked up to the last day I saw him.  I never would have dated him if I knew he smoked but he hid that from me until I tasted it on him and asked.

I am sorry to hear about your father.  It's especially hard when someone passes over the holidays because you're almost expected to be cheerful when it's so hard to smile.

[Jeffree]

I kept replying to my ex because I thought given the serious nature of my dad's last weeks and what she might possibly believe were her good intentions of offering up condolences (yet possibly trying to exploit a potential vulnerability on my part in my grief), if I rejected her wholeheartedly that she would indeed leave me alone once and for all. Wishful thinking, I know, but that was my thought process.

Granted, I know that having her kids with me and she knowing my address, of course, renders me virtually powerless against any of her surprise visits. But that's OK. I can handle seeing her hateful existence wander about in my own house and watch her futile attempts at reconciling with the kids who know from their own experiences that she's full of it.

I think there's more trauma for her in seeing me move her stuff out to the garage and paint over the walls of the house how I see fit and erase all semblance of her and move on than there is for me in watching her bullcrap from a safe emotional distance. Whereas I used to be in the cage with the lion, I am now on the other side looking in if I have to.

J

[araneina]

I kept replying to my ex because I thought given the serious nature of my dad's last weeks and what she might possibly believe were her good intentions of offering up condolences (yet possibly trying to exploit a potential vulnerability on my part in my grief), if I rejected her wholeheartedly that she would indeed leave me alone once and for all. Wishful thinking, I know, but that was my thought process.

Granted, I know that having her kids with me and she knowing my address, of course, renders me virtually powerless against any of her surprise visits. But that's OK. I can handle seeing her hateful existence wander about in my own house and watch her futile attempts at reconciling with the kids who know from their own experiences that she's full of it.

I think there's more trauma for her in seeing me move her stuff out to the garage and paint over the walls of the house how I see fit and erase all semblance of her and move on than there is for me in watching her bullcrap from a safe emotional distance. Whereas I used to be in the cage with the lion, I am now on the other side looking in if I have to.

J

How long were you together?  Do you want this to be a permanent arrangement?  I have difficulty seeing how this will allow you to move on, but I also understand that if you were together for many many years it would be extraordinarily hard to detach.

[Jeffree]

We began dating and got married in 2009.

This will not be a permanent arrangement.

I will be moving forward the divorce as soon as I give my lawyer his retainer. We had our initial consult in October. In the meantime, I have to begin the arduous process of filling out the paperwork he gave me to assess the financial situation.

I will be putting the house on the market this year and will be looking to downsize.

2018 will be a year of rebirth for me. I can feel it. 

[araneina]

That sounds like a lot to handle, but it also sounds like you have a good handle on where to go with it all.

Gosh, for as much as I cared about my ex and convinced myself I loved him, I can't imagine spending 8 years with him.  After 6 months I very nearly had a mental breakdown.  I have learned some very important lessons about myself from him.  I bet you can say the same.