My kids really like the new guy. Son calls him Papi (dad).

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

My wife is Latina, 10 years together, married 6, one 5 year old son.

I suspected an affair this summer for first time, caught her with another man after we discussed separating for months after a volatile relationship. When I retained an attorney her abandonment kicked in and we tried to reconcile for 10 days, didn’t work.

I finally moved out in late November, she spent the month of December traveling with this guy that I caught her with, mostly secretively but I caught her after seeing his name on a boarding pass.

He moved into my house already and I can’t have a conversation with my son on FaceTime without him blabbering on and on about Papi(which means father in Spanish).  Of course my wife who has the emotional intelligence and maturity of a 2 year old and has always been vindictive doesn’t care and this guy is a narcissistic ahole who is taunting me over it. This guy has 2 two year marriages in the last 6 years and has his own son living on the West Coast.

I feel like I’m now living in the twilight zone.

We don’t have an official separation agreement. What would a judge say about this, this is so insanely inappropriate. It’s bad enough that he’s in the house, but he’s being called Papi?

I have t talked to my lawyer. What else should I do?

Unfortunately I threw a pillow at my my wife in a way that wouldn’t hurt my kid and she’s holding that over my head as some form of domestic violence which is laughable considering I used to tell my wife all the time that I would have to leave her if she didn’t stop hitting me or throwing things at me. If I grabbed her to stop or pushed her off she would tell. S I brushed her.

My wife is insane.

Help

[TurbanCowboy]

My wife is Latina, 10 years together, married 6, one 5 year old son.

I suspected an affair this summer for first time, caught her with another man after we discussed separating for months after a volatile relationship. When I retained an attorney her abandonment kicked in and we tried to reconcile for 10 days, didn’t work.

I finally moved out in late November, she spent the month of December traveling with this guy that I caught her with, mostly secretively but I caught her after seeing his name on a boarding pass.

He moved into my house already and I can’t have a conversation with my son on FaceTime without him blabbering on and on about Papi(which means father in Spanish).  Of course my wife who has the emotional intelligence and maturity of a 2 year old and has always been vindictive doesn’t care and this guy is a narcissistic ahole who is taunting me over it. This guy has 2 two year marriages in the last 6 years and has his own son living on the West Coast.

I feel like I’m now living in the twilight zone.

We don’t have an official separation agreement. What would a judge say about this, this is so insanely inappropriate. It’s bad enough that he’s in the house, but he’s being called Papi?

I have t talked to my lawyer. What else should I do?

Unfortunately I threw a pillow at my my wife in a way that wouldn’t hurt my kid and she’s holding that over my head as some form of domestic violence which is laughable considering I used to tell my wife all the time that I would have to leave her if she didn’t stop hitting me or throwing things at me. If I grabbed her to stop or pushed her off she would tell. S I brushed her.

My wife is insane.

Help

[Turkish]

What did your L say? Can you document this somehow beyond a journal (which you should be doing)?

My ex is also Latina, 10 years younger.  I'm sure we could trade stories over coffee or beer 

Regarding your r/s with S5, focus on that,  apart from the legal stuff.  How did you find out,  did S5 tell you? If so, how did you respond?

[TurbanCowboy]

What did your L say? Can you document this somehow beyond a journal (which you should be doing)?

My ex is also Latina, 10 years younger.  I'm sure we could trade stories over coffee or beer 

Regarding your r/s with S5, focus on that,  apart from the legal stuff.  How did you find out,  did S5 tell you? If so, how did you respond?

I still have to talk to my L.

I picked my S5 up from preschool and he started talking about Papi. I showed him a picture of the guy I took when I caught him with my wife, he said that’s Papi.

When I called my son Thursday night to FaceTime with him
He kept rambling on and on about Papi. I had to hang up in my son, couldn’t listen to it.

I had a very close relationship with my now deceased grandfather and I coukdnhim
poppy as a child, pop when I got older. My dad is Pop to his grandchildren.

When I called my wife out on this she reacted childishly like she always does when I call her out. She said, “I DON’T CAARREE!”

The guy even taunted me last weekend as I called him out on it. Doesn’t care. Even had the audacity to say, “Tell S5 Papi says hello.”

This guy is a narcissistic scumbag, my wife is clear BPD.

What she is doing is so inappropriate, but she’s in self destruction mode.

What kind of mother puts their 5 year old boy who has lost their father in a position where they are going to get on the phone and immediately poison any conversation with their father? That’s what she has done.

[SamwizeGamgee]

You're expressing a fear that many dads have - seeing their kids call someone else dad.

I'm not clear from your posts as to how much time you have with your son.  I've decided that my best antidote for my wife's very subtle brainwashing is time - my time with the kids, however much that will be.  But, with time being the good dad and non-BPD I believe most kids will work it out.  More than FaceTime, how much real time do you spend with your son?

It is tragic when an adult, especially a parent they love and need to survive, has such damaging behavior.  I think we need to trust in a higher power that the kids can bounce back from that brain washing.
Be the best you that you can.  That's always the best medicine.

[TurbanCowboy]

You're expressing a fear that many dads have - seeing their kids call someone else dad.

I'm not clear from your posts as to how much time you have with your son.  I've decided that my best antidote for my wife's very subtle brainwashing is time - my time with the kids, however much that will be.  But, with time being the good dad and non-BPD I believe most kids will work it out.  More than FaceTime, how much real time do you spend with your son?

It is tragic when an adult, especially a parent they love and need to survive, has such damaging behavior.  I think we need to trust in a higher power that the kids can bounce back from that brain washing.
Be the best you that you can.  That's always the best medicine.

I only get him every other weekend.  Right now that’s really all I can handle and my wife wasn’t cooperating when discussing how we could make this work logistically. She wouldn’t commit to staying in the house we bought or selling the house. She wouldn’t commit to a
school district if she did move out.  Depending on her mood or the week, her intentions changed.

My son doesn’t understand what Papi means, this is about my wife hurting me. 

I dominated my kid since June when her affair began and she wants to call me out on the father I am, had the audacity to tell me my son told her all he did in his last visit was watch TV when he’s not yet capable of saying something like that or making that kind of observation. Right now she’s projecting her guilt about how lousy a parent she is on me when attacking me makes no sense.

I literally can’t stand the woman. She has promised I can request joint physical custody in the future but I can’t hold her accountable to anything she says.  She says she won’t petition to the court if advanacement within career requires a move out of state. Can’t trust her.

It’s a bad situation and the guy she is with a narcissistic ahole.

[SamwizeGamgee]

Okay.  I'm not sure why you say you can't handle more time with your son. Perhaps we can work on that.
Further, never take legal advice, or be told what you can or can't do, from a mentally disordered person. 
It sounds to me like it's a good time for you to have a lawyer, and listen to what a good lawyer tells you about getting your son more.  If you're facing divorce, it's not the time for a real man to play a game of "pretty please may I... ." with your STBX.   

[ForeverDad]

Further, never take legal advice, or be told what you can or can't do, from a mentally disordered person.

Excellent point.  Don't let your ex rent space in your head, worse, live rent free there.  What you can count on is that most ex-spouses described here will only grudgingly allow you to get crumbs.  You won't "live well and prosper" by listening to your ex's perceptions and perspectives.  If you disagree with your ex then let the family court decide.  The Real Authority is family court and is generally "less unfair" than an ex.

[TurbanCowboy]

Okay.  I'm not sure why you say you can't handle more time with your son. Perhaps we can work on that.
Further, never take legal advice, or be told what you can or can't do, from a mentally disordered person. 
It sounds to me like it's a good time for you to have a lawyer, and listen to what a good lawyer tells you about getting your son more.  If you're facing divorce, it's not the time for a real man to play a game of "pretty please may I... ." with your STBX.   

With work, depending on where I live and where she lives, it would be difficult to get him to daycare and pick him up during the week. Again, my wife could have moved an hour from me.

I have a lawyer, have to speak with her again.

[SamwizeGamgee]

It's your kid, solve it for him and for you.  I'd rather have your wife wishing she moved closer to you.

[Skip]

This sucks. Big time. The "papi" thing is creepy.

It's your kid, solve it for him and for you.

SamwizeGamgee is right.

In the mean time, this guy is with your kids 85% of the time, you are there 15%. Your ex is on a honeymoon. The beau is trying to win her and the kids over, which makes sense for everyone, but you.

Here's the deal.

Option 1: You can play the long game (the honeymoon will wane) and be the Disney parent and come out ahead. I dated a women who was the Disney parent and the kids couldn't wait to for Disney weekend.

Option 2: You can try to fight this from a position of weakness (15%) and alienate the kids. They want happy. They will run from crappy. Don't spar with "Papi". It's a losers game - accept him.

I re-titled the thread to hopefully bring in some parents that are working this.

We're here for you. Play this smart.

 

[kells76]

Hi TC;

Yeah, the "calling the other guy a dad name" move is really low. That's what my DH's kids' mom did when she married DH's former best friend. The kids still call him "dad-style name".

I'll leave the logistical questions for now (how/when to be with your kid). In terms of the name question, what we've ended up doing is never referring to Stepdad by the "dad-style name [DSN]" the kids call him. The kids will say something like "we loved doing X with DSN!" I'll say "How great, what did you like the most about doing X with Real First Name?" So instead of arguing with the kids about how they can't call Stepdad ":)SN", I just emphasize through what I say that that's not how I think of him (as their replacement dad). It kills me every single time, but based on where we're at, that's what we have.

I don't know where you're at with legal stuff, but one thing DH did get into the official PP was that the kids would be referred to by their legal names (Stepdad "joked"   for a LONG time that they had his last name, and it got horrible and confusing -- legal stuff stopped that). Maybe Mom will go for it if you frame it as her "winning" that you can't have the kids call anyone else Mom (and she couldn't allow the kids to call anyone else a dad-type name). IDK, food for thought.

Maybe an option between Skip's Option 1 & Option 2 is some parenting jiu-jitsu. Dr Craig Childress has some good ideas on how to find a middle way between rolling over and arguing -- here's the link:

Ju-­jitsu Parenting: Fighting Back from the Down Position
C.A. Childress, Psy.D. (2013)

It might not be "all Disney all the time", but it will train you into being the one parent who actually listens, and your kids WILL know that about you.

I think LnL has said this the best, that parenting kids whose other parent is doing these dysfunctional behaviors is REALLY hard, and we can't always use "traditional" parenting tools. Start honing your jiu-jitsu skills. Whatever happens with the location logistics or the dad name stuff, you may very well feel stronger and more capable with some of these tools under your belt.

Wishing you all the best, and hang in there -- it's a long road, but there can be hope at the end of it.

kells76

[Skip]

Maybe an option between Skip's Option 1 & Option 2 is some parenting jiu-jitsu. Dr Craig Childress has some good ideas on how to find a middle way between rolling over and arguing... .

Good resource!

[TurbanCowboy]

What makes it so tough is that I am dealing with someone who (at least with me) believes this is somehow acceptable.  I know it’s vindictive and a desperate play to secure the replacement who has his own issues. I also understand it validates my belief that my wife is battling a mental illness which should make it easier to process this.

I’m processing the end of the marriage, not seeing my son and dealing with the loneliness associated with it.  To compound that a new man has moved in, he’s taunting me and my son is calling him Papi.  

I’m pretty confident this relationship will hit a wall at some point, doesn’t make it any easier in the short term. I just have to make sure I’m positioned to be a major part of my son’s life in the next few years.

[Turkish]

When it hits a wall,  or conflict ensues, you being there for your son will be paramount, as much as this hurts and angers you. 

My ex introduced the kids,  then 2 and barely 4, within weeks after she moved out,  if not sooner.  My friends were wise enough not to tell me anything,  but being Secret Squirrels on her Facebook,  one told me later that she was posting pics of him with the kids.  Four months later she was unable to deal with our son's anger issues towards her and she reached out to me,  feigning innocence like she didn't know why he was so angry. 

Fast forward to later that year,  the kids really did like him.  This was hard for me.  No matter our view of the matter,  our kids are the innocents here, impressionable,  blank slates; they don't know any better.  Imagine having to validate that.  I had to,  in order not to hurt them regardless the adults in the other household. 

As a dad,  believe that you are his dad to your core and act accordingly.  Your son will mirror your feelings towards him.  He knows who his father is.  I've seen the tendency to retreat into anger and hopelessness here,  or to focus too much on the litigation aspect, especially given a narcissistic Other Man. You're in a power position with your son given that you are his father.  Don't back off from that.  Ex and OM may think otherwise,  hence the  Jui-Jitsu to reverse this.  Your son doesn't know better,  only what he knows how.  There may be another Papi in the future,  but he will realize as he grows that he has only one. 

I've seen similar situations go both ways in my years here.  The difference came down to how the fathers handled it with their kids,  but more importantly with themselves. 

[kells76]

Oh man, TC, can I just stand with you on this one?

What makes it so tough is that I am dealing with someone who (at least with me) believes this is somehow acceptable.  I know it’s vindictive and a desperate play to secure the replacement who has his own issues. I also understand it validates my belief that my wife is battling a mental illness which should make it easier to process this.

That IS hard. That's really hard. Mom's replacement for DH has some BIG issues too. I think you and I both see that if there weren't issues and insecurities, then it'd be totally fine for the stepdads to just be called by their first names, right? Right.

I bet you could imagine how it might go if you confronted Ex on this, though. Would she say "Oh, it wasn't my idea, it was Son's idea"? Or "I can't make Son not say it if he loves Papi"? Or "You're just insecure, if you were healthy you wouldn't have a problem with it"? Guess how I imagined all those responses 

So, here's a jiu jitsu move other than confrontation that you could ponder. What if every time you were with Son, you emphasized how much you love that he can't ever be replaced? How glad you are that he's your boy and that no matter what, nobody will take his place? See how that is different? Your son will grow up in the strength of knowing that NOBODY will take his place in your heart. That's the life value he will get from you and one day the pieces will explicitly click about how Papi isn't his dad the way you are.

None of this makes it easy. You will have to dig deep, but you aren't alone in this. Keep reading Dr Childress' stuff and posting here. Do your own processing work, too -- something I 99% guarantee you is not happening at Mom's house. That processing will strengthen you and help you see clearly, and help you be healthy for your son. Also, Mom will likely see taking a parenting class as "weak" or "for people with problems" or "she knows it all" or is "too busy". But that's not you! Some churches have free ones. See if they document attendance, just in case. Ones that do "love and logic" style are really helpful. Been there done 2 rounds of parenting classes.

We're here for you;

Kells76

[Skip]

I just have to make sure I’m positioned to be a major part of my son’s life in the next few years.

Its hard - you have to make every moment together count.

[Turkish]

Its hard - you have to make every moment together count.

Do not underestimate this. Your son believes this right now (you're his Papi).  Never surrender this fact. He will mirror your feelings (in a good was way) of you believe it.  Every moment does count.