Internally conflicted

[snowglobe]

Hello all,
I haven’t been active in a while, although I’ve been reading everyone’s updates and root for all of the familiar “faces” here. The reason has been internal, rather then the usual “tightening up the screws” coming from my uBPDh. I’m internally conflicted and divided to the very core. I don’t know what to do next, so I’m writing here in order to shed some light and gain clearing.
I’ve been away from my home for most of Dec and Jan, accompaning my uBPDh on his business trip to a state 6 hrs away. I’m here because of my fears;
1. I’m afraid that out of heart- out of mind for him, he is barely asking about his children
2. He is constantly telling me how he wants to hook up with younger more compliant women
3. I’m trying to stay involved in his business ventures in case he dumps me to the curb and tries to s:,4w me out of money
4. I’m lonely without him
5. From all of the put downs he tells me daily I’m afraid that I’m old, uncomplicated and ultimately destined to be alone with two children, one of them disabled
6. He is so amazingly comfortable living “bachelor” lifestyle I’m afraid he won’t come back
7. I worked so hard to “build” him up and help him realize his dreams. It isn’t fair that someone else would enjoy the fruits of my labour

Now to reality. I’ve been reading “stop caretaking borderline and narcissist and how to stop the drama”. I’ve realized many things;
1. I can no longer deny how severely mentally ill he is
2. I can never ask for my needs being met, as it’s met with a huge whiplash and tantrums
3. I do not have any real intimacy or security, certainty in these relationships, sex isn’t a substitution of real intimacy
4. He will never “snap” out or get better
5. I’m loosing precious time seeing my kids grow up, while chasing the ghost
6. I’m no longer sexually attracted to the “nut case”
7. I’m also very mentally dicturbed, perhaps more then I realize
8. I’ve put 16 years of my life on hold, and dissatisfied and stuck in the same place, while chasing husband dreams hoping one day he will help me achieve mine
9. I have nothing to loose emotionally, only financially
10. I’m completely at his mercy financially. I’ve been out of job for the last 10 years and don’t know where to begin
11. I realize the very reason I always felt that there is an expiration date written all over these relationships, because he never fully committed to me
12. He sees no purpose for having me around unless he is in complete control of the setuation, from the massages and sex, perversions used as substitutes for intimacy. If I’m not serving his needs, with immediate gratification, he rejects and discards me
13. He is living out his dream for other people raising his kids, with no concern for their wellbeing, while me playing mommy to him
14. I’m exhausted and defeated, he rented out a condo with his now single partner and signed a contract for at least a year requiring him to be here (away from home) for 90% out of the year
15. I failed my last semester while chasing him around the globe
16. My friends shake their head puzzled as to why I’m still sticking it out

[snowglobe]

I contacted the author of the “stop caretaking... .” and hope to have a 45 min phone conversation with her as to my long term plan and stop caretaking. One of the requirements prior to scheduling the session is to write 1-3 pages summary of my life. I’m stuck, putting it all on paper is excruciating. All of the distractions, welcome in my case, such as kids, social outing and healthy time apart aren’t here. We are together most of the time with him being grumpy and unhappy constantly. I feel like a raccoon that can’t be conditioned. I’m anxious and depressed, still bargaining with myself to hold on just a little bit longer. I miss my children so much.

[snowglobe]

UBPDh is putting me in a FOG, I feel like I’m sinking. His interaction is cantered around: “ are you 19 yo? Do you have long legs? Are you my muse? I want you gone! We have a serious issue, you and I, so serious that I want you gone! You need to go home and parent your kids! I’m gonna call your mother”  in my heart of heart I know that I should not leave during a crisis of this global scale, I can’t fix it over the phone and the distance always proved detrimental for our relationships. If I leave, possible consequence include breaking up, going no contact, having the “doubts that we should be together”, “that we are different people”, he is trying to force me into a caretaker role, again. I’m supposed to silently massage his feet, show him at most adoration, never say “no” or “push something on to him”, be always willing and available for sex. By ready and available meaning read his mind, and wear sexy clothes, and fulfill his sexual fetishes on a whimp without having him ask.
I made a “mustake”, I asked him for help for my parents. They are helping us so much, living in with us, helping take care of the house, kids and dogs with no pay. I asked him to set up a small business for them, he told me “ask V” his partner. His partner doesn’t want to do it for my parents, successfully blocking all of my attempts. My uBPDh can do it easily with little effort, thus providing additional source of income for my mom and dad. After 15 years of unweathering service, it’s a small contribution for their retirement plan. He rages at me every time I ask. It’s as if subconsciously he doesn’t want them to be well off financially. Moved by my parents disclosing to me that they are struggling to pay their mortgage and my father’s job setuation is shaky, while my mom is providing full time childcare of my children. He was furious at how dare I ask something from him, it’s only he who has the needs, wants and desires, everyone else doesn’t need to live in dignity. I’m so, so exhausted.
He wants me to start caretaking, but I don’t know where to begin to validate and how to close this bleeding.
Help?.

[SunandMoon]

Snowglobe there is so much hurt in your posts, I just wanted to come in here and give you a hug 

Would it be so bad to go home and be with your children? Maybe use that time, rather than focusing on him and his needs, to focus on you and your children?

It would seem a good time to explore what options you have... .maybe see a lawyer and find out what rights you have to joint property and income (including future income and support for your children).

"Out of sight, out of mind" can work both ways. Maybe with a little distance, you will be able to see more choices and regain some of your own power.

[snowglobe]

Snowglobe there is so much hurt in your posts, I just wanted to come in here and give you a hug 

Would it be so bad to go home and be with your children? Maybe use that time, rather than focusing on him and his needs, to focus on you and your children?

It would seem a good time to explore what options you have... .maybe see a lawyer and find out what rights you have to joint property and income (including future income and support for your children).

"Out of sight, out of mind" can work both ways. Maybe with a little distance, you will be able to see more choices and regain some of your own power.

Thank you, @sunandmoon, I really needed some kindness on much life. So much so that whenever someone is nice To me it takes me aback. I’ve been a caretaker for my whole life, first my unpd mom and np dad and now uBPD and np dad. I know I need to go home, my kids are growing  up without me. I’m also petrified of being responsible for myself and the kids alone. AS I’m most certain that narcissistic personality in him will fight me tooth and nail just to see me hurting.
My short term goal is to stop this bleeding and then go home, hopefully beginning of next week. This way I will reduce the drama and it won’t look like “you are an ass and I’m leaving”. I want to leave on good terms. Hopefully he won’t have the compulsive need to punish me.

[pearlsw]

Hi Snowglobe and all!

Sorry I have not been much of a presence lately. My h lost his job last week, and my grandfather passed away, not too long after my grandmother, and I barely get any time to myself to write these days….With that background out there…May I say, oh my dear, my heart hurts when I hear what you are going through! I know how absolutely confusing and hard it is to think clearly. Take a gut check. Deep in your gut what is the right thing for you to do at this time?

I had an interesting opportunity yesterday to speak with a neutral third party about my situation and this person’s goal was to get met to think through and weigh out all of my options. I do this on my own of course, but it was interesting to do it with someone else for a change and hear myself speak about it. I had to name all of the options and see them right out in front of me on paper. I saw the words “separate, take a break, get a divorce, stay in this country, go back to my home country, stay in my current situation and suffer, get my h meds and therapy”…we talked over it all and my paralysis about how to act/react. I am still a bit stuck, but I have narrowed down to two possible scenarios in my mind. I am finding out, much to my surprise I will be okay. I got some unexpectedly good financial news this week…and I have some options. I am just waiting to see what happens on this front with my h…I don’t feel like it is good time to give in to his dysregulation, but I am not fighting to save things either. I am just too tired and someone has to break this pattern. We’ll see. My h’s extreme black and white thinking overwhelms me at times and I don’t know which “reality” I am living in. He is very controlling and has been having extinction bursts when I’ve set boundaries lately, it is extremely hard not to give into him to gain short term peace or love but I simply must to maintain any sense of dignity and integrity in my life.

I want to ask you, if you would like, can you think out here with us the options you have? As icky as they might all be, and I saw that while all of mine have serious downsides, there are upsides scattered about here and there…but one thing we could agree on is that “staying and suffering” as I am now is not a good option. Something has to change. I want change this year and I am sure it will come one way or another. I am determined that my life will be better.

It is hard. I don’t want my h to suffer. I find that that is hardest part of it for me, him being hurt…his life being very damaged, but I can’t protect him from this and I have to look out for myself even as I have compassion for him.

Do you want to talk out your options? I am sorry I may or may not be back soon to reply, but I am here in spirit and glad you asked me to check in…Sending you lots of love and encouragement as your find your way through this tough time!

[formflier]

Hey... .  

Writing this down was an important step.

Contacting author is an important step.

Writing out your life summary is an important step.

Your post here is enormous... .the "thing" that you are looking at "solving" is enormous as well.  Many times you have (or likely will) believe "it's too big" or it's "unsolvable".  (at least I've felt that way).

Break it down into smaller pieces... .take a step to address the smaller issue.   Let the rest of this thing take care of itself.  Because in reality... .it's been taking care of itself for a while... right?

The enormous amounts of energy you have spent trying to  control the situation up to this point have resulted in... .(please fill in this blank for me)

Are you pleased with the result?  (let's be crystal clear here... .)

Again... .   .  One step at the time.  We'll be here for you.

FF

[snowglobe]

@pearlsw,
I’m so sorry for your losses! It must Be a very hard time for you, both emotionally and financially. I’m interested to see what option you will choose, every “success” story on this forum becomes a lifeline for me to look out for. They are all different in their ending, yet life goes on and people find closure.
As for myself, there are 4 possible outcomes of the current setuation
1. I stay and suffer, I don’t get any emotional surcharge due to isolation and general dissatisfaction of being at his back and call, while not seeing my children or getting any kind of gain from the current setuation. He continues to belittle me and put me down while rejecting, until he sees me completely crushed, he may stop then or force me out of the condo. He doesn’t like to see the “frown” on my face, or a look of despair of anguish. It makes him feel bad about himself, easier just to sweep it under the rag.
2. I quietly pick up a train ticket and head home. He will inquire about my whereabouts then go nc for a while. He then will start threatening me, saying tht we are different people and need to divorce. He will also claim that his business is deteriorating and we need to cut down on all expenses. He will continue abusing me verbally and financially, until I start caving in, in fear for the well being of the children
3. I leave with him sometime next week, as he would need a few days back at home to take care of business. He will expect nothing less then catering to his every need and being serviced like a king. Dinners fresh from scratch every night, full body sports massage every night, smile and polite interest in his life, with no questions or demand coming from me.
4. I leave and he will miss me, and realize that he actually loves me continuing push and pull relationships.

Out of 4 scenarios the last one is least likely. He hates the idea of being responsible for someone’s hurt and pushes the person away furthermore. After all, I can’t be the victim and the caretaker simultaneously, and that’s the only role he sees me in. He has no regard or interest in me as a person, individual or a separate entity.

[snowglobe]

The enormous amounts of energy you have spent trying to  control the situation up to this point have resulted in... .(please fill in this blank for me)

Are you pleased with the result?  (let's be crystal clear here... .)

Again... .   .  One step at the time.  We'll be here for you.

FF

The enormous amounts of energy you have spent trying to  control the situation up to this point have resulted in... .Me feeling extremely depressed, anxious and isolated. I also didn’t achieve anything I wanted to e.g, failed semester at university, him providing support to my parents, it’s not a honeymoon phase, he isn’t giving me anything back emotionally. I’m depleted and defeated, still stuck caretaking for him
I’m not pleased with the results, although if you remember I fought with V. For the opportunity of coming on the business trip with them. Babysitting my uBPDh just so he doesn’t cheat on me, or provides financial support proved to be too burdensome.
How can I plan my exit Home, so it results in least bloodshed? Should I agree next time he tells me:” you should go home, I want you to leave”? Would it look like I’m abandoning him and “our issues”?

[formflier]

Please don't leave and go NC.

That would be a nuke... .

You didn't get her overnight... .so it will take a while to unwind.

Tell me more about leaving in a few days to go home.  How long will you both stay... .

My understanding is he will expect a lot from you... .tell me more about that...

My goal:  Changes start happening from YOU... .let him manage himself... .and your relationship will change.

FF

[5xFive]

Snowglobe,
I’m so sorry you’re struggling! This sounds so difficult. I finished the caretaking book and it was awesome and made me sad. To reflect on how much I’ve given up. It sounds like you feels the same way. I completely understand your need to stay on this trip with your husband but it sounds like you’re so miserable. Plus, missing your babies, I imagine makes it even more of a struggle.
We learned in the book that we need to do things to validate ourselves and take care of ourselves. Is there anything that you can do for yourself during the day, while he’s working? Even something as small as sitting in a coffee shop with a good book? I know that when I get tired, overwhelmed, anxious, and stressed, things are worse at home. I am unable to validate and I jade like crazy. Defense is my state of being, to try to protect the inner me.
My h was saying some really negative things to me. Threatening that he wouldn’t come home unless I went and checked myself in to a hospital. FF’s suggested response was:  "I understand... ."  perhaps you add "that makes me sad... "
Do you think some version of this would help when in a conversation with your husband?
Keep us posted Snowglobe. We’re here for you!    

[snowglobe]

Tell me more about leaving in a few days to go home.  How long will you both stay... .

My understanding is he will expect a lot from you... .tell me more about that...

My goal:  Changes start happening from YOU... .let him manage himself... .and your relationship will change.

FF

Dear @formflier,
Thank you, my tormented emotional state isn’t a good compas. Leaving would entail him and I driving back home, so he can work on some of the business aspects. He says he will go for a few days, in reality it could be 4-5 max. I’m fighting for the “turn taking” at least, he doesn’t have o be here when V is here, yet he chooses to. The industry he is in is very hot, dynamic and ever changing. I can’t go into much detail, but try to think what’s been on the news all over the world in the past year. He is one of the biggest names in our area. One of his biggest vices is narcissisism and greed, his partner v. Is providing him with both. Flattery and a promise of immerse fortune. He won’t leave this “business venture” as far advice I can see. So the changes are ultimately mine to make.
You are spot on in terms of expectations, he would expect me to change the suitcases, deal with all of the financial aspects, car leases and etc. Logistics. He also expects my complete devotion- meaning dropping all of my chores and responsibilities while catering for him. I can’t fanthom leaving my children only few days after I came. My parents need a break from “parenting” their grandchildren and I need to reconnect and fill the internal void that is left

[formflier]

How long until the trip back "home"?

[snowglobe]

How long until the trip back "home"?

ALL depends on uBPDh, he is in full control of the setuation. Which mean did there isn’t any preparation that can be done. Last night it was Thursday or Friday next week. Everything is always subjected to change with no notice.

[formflier]

 
Step 1... while he is working on doing whatever.  Take some time and be extra kind to yourself.

Step 2.  Go home with him, whenever that happens... .while at home you will make some changes.  You likely have a week or so to sort through that.

Step 3.  While home, you two go out for coffee.  Have a chat with him about where you live and take care of kids.

Be proactive, not reactive to this stuff.


FF

[Radcliff]

Hello Snowglobe, it's been a while since I've had a chance to post on one of your threads.  It's nice to have the opportunity again.  This place is made possible by folks like you who stay and tell their stories over time, while also supporting others as you have done.  I'm glad you are here.  Thank you.

It took great courage and determination to put together the inventory that you did.  Those things are very hard to start, and even harder to finish.  It is quite an accomplishment, and I think it will serve you well.

I am sorry you are finding life so painfully unbalanced now.  It is hard to have this realization.  But I am optimistic that by starting to call these things out, you can start on a road to a place that works better for you.

I am particularly sorry that you are hearing and feeling things like this:

2. He is constantly telling me how he wants to hook up with younger more compliant women

5. From all of the put downs he tells me daily I’m afraid that I’m old, uncomplicated and ultimately destined to be alone with two children, one of them disabled

UBPDh is putting me in a FOG, I feel like I’m sinking. His interaction is centered around: “ are you 19 yo? Do you have long legs?

You know that he is doing these things to try to control you and keep you dependent on him.  But knowing this does not make it hurt any less.  The fact that it can hurt you is why it is useful to him.  There are two things going on here -- threats of abandonment and harming your self esteem.  The abandonment issue is a main theme around here, and I'm sure can be a long discussion.  Let me touch on the self esteem part... .

According to your values, who is more interesting and attractive as a partner, someone who is 19, or someone of your age?  Someone with a richness of experience and who has raised children and built a family?  If you find your own values and apply them to this situation, I bet that you'll come out the winner over the 19 year old every time.  No contest.  Not even close. 

The "uncomplicated" part is also worth asking about.  Would you say that your true nature is to be "uncomplicated" and uninteresting?  From what I have seen of you, I certainly don't think so.  Your current role perhaps might be viewed as uncomplicated from the outside -- but even that, to contort and bend to all of the demands and contradictions, is not an incomplicated existence at all.  Ironically, you may find that you are performing very complicated gymnastics in order to appear to be "uncomplicated!"

It seems like your next decision may be whether to follow your husband back to the remote business location after your return home next week.  One way to look at this might be in the context of boundaries.  Your values do not support the fact that he wants to be remote nearly full time.  Are you supporting your own values?  You have described how much you are doing for him to make his life easy while he is on the road.  If you took a boundaries approach, and controlled your own actions to put energy where you think your family needs it, how might that look?

WW

[snowglobe]

Step 1... while he is working on doing whatever.  Take some time and be extra kind to yourself.

Step 2.  Go home with him, whenever that happens... .while at home you will make some changes.  You likely have a week or so to sort through that.

Step 3.  While home, you two go out for coffee.  Have a chat with him about where you live and take care of kids.

Be proactive, not reactive to this stuff.


FF

Can you give me an example for stage 2? What changes can I make once my behaviour?
He isn’t ever able to form a decision and go against anyone, especially his partner. Being the caregiver, the rules only apply to me. He even apologized to V. For raising his voice at him once. ITS funny Howe he can be completely normal and proactive, but when it to our relationships, I feel disposable, worthless and useless. He never fails to tell me  thieves everyday

[snowglobe]

DEar @Wentworth,
Thank you so much for taking the time to reply. There are a few things that I want to touch on. We both come from former Soviet Union, but different heritages. Believe it or not, Ex SSSR was multicultural before the word was in use as someone who grew up with post Soviet mentality I can tell you that the only currency this culture accepts is money and youth. The later is especially cultivated and considered to be a sign of prestige. Imagine playboy mansion on steroids. Men like my husband have no respect for women’s feelings, iq of experience. The only thing that matters is if she is young, attractive and services her man well. He’s deeply rooted in that mentality, and his abuse on my esteem is hourly when we are together. Personally, I know the innner strength I have, and what I can do as a caregiver. Yet 16 years of telling me that I’m nothing destroyed me completely.
I’m praying for the fastest return to my children.nfrom then on I don’t know how to start planning my exit. I don’t think that I can live another 16 years like this

[BeagleGirl]

Snowglobe,
    I’m so sorry you are going through all of this. It’s horrible when the person you expect to love and care for you is the one causing this kind of pain.
    I agree with those who have suggested finding ways to take care of yourself and step away from the pain.
    I’m also going to suggest an exercise that may cause some short term pain but I hope may be ultimately healing:
    Read back through your posts and substitute the word “controlling” for every time you say “caretaking”. We tend to put a positive bias on our own behavior that may mask our unhealthy behaviors and thought patterns. I know I do this. Reading through your posts reminded me of many ways I justified controlling behaviors and attitudes in my relationship with my husband under the name of “caretaking”.
    I tend to think of controlling people as being harsh and demanding. Those are just the successful ones. . I expended just as much energy trying to control my husband’s behavior with “loving” acts but was not all that successful. Recognize any of these?
-If I —— I can make him care for my feelings
-If I —— I can keep him from seeking sexual release elsewhere
-If I —— I can make him understand how much he’s hurting me
-If I —— I can make him be a better father
-If I fix this for him he will see how much better it is and not break it again
-If I —— I can make him choose, love, not hurt, want me.

    The past year has taught me a lot about letting go of the idea that I can make my husband feel/choose/do what I want him to. I can choose my actions and responses to his actions, but I can’t control him without sacrificing my own freedom. My attempts to control his behavior was like being a prison guard 24/7 which meant that I was in the same prison and it’s debatable which side of the bars it’s better to be on.
    Since I’ve started letting go of control in my relationship my husband has chosen to continue in his self serving behaviors. He has not chosen to “move towards me”. It’s still a struggle to understand that his choices say WAY more about him than they do about me, but I’m starting to realize that he has been making the same choices all along, I just didn’t allow him to face the consequences of those choices. There is a part of me that still hopes he will ultimately choose me of his own volition, but I’m trying to shift my focus from attempting to control him (even nicely) to self control.
    My apologies if I’m projecting my failings on you, but I was reminded of that mental picture of the prison guard/prisoner dynamic as I was reading about you being on this trip with your husband in an attempt to keep him from being unfaithful.

BG

[snowglobe]

Wow, @beagleGirl,
What an insight, I’m so moved by it. It does sound a lot like our dinamics, controlling him from cheating, controlling him from finances, controlling him from socializing with the wrong crowd and affecting his attitudes. I can also insert bargaining, into these quotations. If I do... .then he will... .I’m so utterly confused as to how untangle this knot of emotions, resentment, pain and failed expectations. Letting go is the scariest part

[formflier]

Can you give me an example for stage 2? What changes can I make once my behaviour?
 

yes... I'll get to that in a few days.  There is plenty of time.

My goal now is to get you ok with a plan... .so you can relax (relatively) until then.

He apologizes to V because V doesn't put up with his guff.  You put up with it. 

It's going to take a while to undo that...

Focus on small steps.  Let's get some momentum going in right direction.

FF

[formflier]

. I don’t think that I can live another 16 years like this

and you shouldn't... .

Can we set aside the next 16 years for a bit.  Lets sort out the next day... the next week and the next month.

A year from now will take care of itself.

FF

[snowglobe]

yes... I'll get to that in a few days.  There is plenty of time.

My goal now is to get you ok with a plan... .so you can relax (relatively) until then.

He apologizes to V because V doesn't put up with his guff.  You put up with it. 

It's going to take a while to undo that...

Focus on small steps.  Let's get some momentum going in right direction.

FF

I’m hanging in there for a bit longer, thank you