I keep reading back old conversations, blaming myself

[Depression = 72% of members]

Hi everyone,

Sorry to open a new topic yet again, but I just feel so stuck and lost and sad and lonely and this forum is almost like a diary to me. It's so nice to know people here understand.

The last few days I have been reading back some of our old whatsapp conversations (I can't bare to delete them because it somehow feels like deleting the relationship and deleting some of the happiest moments of my life) and I just feel so guilty. I didn't spend enough time with him. I was too busy with rowing, seeing friends, committees, work... .One conversation is so clearly burned into my mind. It was about an evening course about insects I wanted to follow at my study association. This course would be from 5:30 to 7:00 PM on tuesday evenings, but I already had rowing practice on monday (5:30 to 7:00 PM), wednesday and thursday (both 7:00 to 8:30 PM), so tuesday was pretty much the only day of the week I still had totally free. My ex really didn't appreciate it, said I was always too busy and didn't have time for him. And that when I was a free one evening and he had plans, I got all sad because I don't like spending my evenings alone and I missed him. He called my a hypocrite. Which I was. I was sad that we didn't see eachother as much but on the other hand I was making all these evening commitments because I didn't want to risk not having anything to do in the evenings. He was so right. I didn't prioritise him enough. I was a hypocrite. I should have made more time for him.

Another thing I remember really well is a weekend towards the end of our relationship, that I planned quite full. Friday evening I had to work, saturday evening I had dinner with friends, sunday I also spent with friends going to a vintage market. I had been really ill two weeks prior, spent a few days in hospital. My ex was with me all the time, being really really really sweet, sitting by my bedside. He had a hard time during that week. He was really worried about me and very sad, more than he should have been because yes I was in pain but it was also certain that I would recover quickly (I had a kidney infection). The week after that I had exams so I only saw him once to go to a movie together. So I should have had that weekend free for him, to do something fun together and thank him for all his good care. But instead I spent it with friends, because I hadn't seen them for quite some time. Again he felt like I didn't prioritise him and again he was right. He was quite irritated by that. I suggested meeting him friday after work and spending the saturday together, but then he said he needed to study. We did go out for dinner together on sunday but that wasn't very nice because he was irritated all the time and singling me out.

A week later I found out that he had downloaded tinder (a dating app) that weekend when I wasn't there for him. He started talking to a girl, exchanging numbers, talking about meeting up, flirting a lot. When I found out (we were a weekend away together with my parents) he said it was nothing serious, that he had just been feeling really stressed and it was a way to get easy, fulfilling attention which I couldn't give him. I was really hurt. A week later he broke up with me for the first time, partly because I was so hurt and wanted to talk about what happened a lot and he couldn't handle that, he couldn't really explain his feelings or feel sorry about the situation. He did say that week multiple times that he loved me and didn't want to lose me, but he said it in a very monotonous way, clearly he didn't mean it.

I keep thinking that if I had been there more for him, if I had shown him more how important he was to me and hadn't taken him for granted, that we would maybe still be together. That he maybe wouldn't have downloaded that dating app. I keep thinking that I shouldn't have been so hard on him, because clearly he couldn't handle his emotions and he wasn't able to talk about what he did and why. I keep thinking I should have let it go more easily, pretend like it didn't happen. 

[blooming]

Hi everyone,

Sorry to open a new topic yet again, but I just feel so stuck and lost and sad and lonely and this forum is almost like a diary to me. It's so nice to know people here understand.

The last few days I have been reading back some of our old whatsapp conversations (I can't bare to delete them because it somehow feels like deleting the relationship and deleting some of the happiest moments of my life) and I just feel so guilty. I didn't spend enough time with him. I was too busy with rowing, seeing friends, committees, work... .One conversation is so clearly burned into my mind. It was about an evening course about insects I wanted to follow at my study association. This course would be from 5:30 to 7:00 PM on tuesday evenings, but I already had rowing practice on monday (5:30 to 7:00 PM), wednesday and thursday (both 7:00 to 8:30 PM), so tuesday was pretty much the only day of the week I still had totally free. My ex really didn't appreciate it, said I was always too busy and didn't have time for him. And that when I was a free one evening and he had plans, I got all sad because I don't like spending my evenings alone and I missed him. He called my a hypocrite. Which I was. I was sad that we didn't see eachother as much but on the other hand I was making all these evening commitments because I didn't want to risk not having anything to do in the evenings. He was so right. I didn't prioritise him enough. I was a hypocrite. I should have made more time for him.

Another thing I remember really well is a weekend towards the end of our relationship, that I planned quite full. Friday evening I had to work, saturday evening I had dinner with friends, sunday I also spent with friends going to a vintage market. I had been really ill two weeks prior, spent a few days in hospital. My ex was with me all the time, being really really really sweet, sitting by my bedside. He had a hard time during that week. He was really worried about me and very sad, more than he should have been because yes I was in pain but it was also certain that I would recover quickly (I had a kidney infection). The week after that I had exams so I only saw him once to go to a movie together. So I should have had that weekend free for him, to do something fun together and thank him for all his good care. But instead I spent it with friends, because I hadn't seen them for quite some time. Again he felt like I didn't prioritise him and again he was right. He was quite irritated by that. I suggested meeting him friday after work and spending the saturday together, but then he said he needed to study. We did go out for dinner together on sunday but that wasn't very nice because he was irritated all the time and singling me out.

A week later I found out that he had downloaded tinder (a dating app) that weekend when I wasn't there for him. He started talking to a girl, exchanging numbers, talking about meeting up, flirting a lot. When I found out (we were a weekend away together with my parents) he said it was nothing serious, that he had just been feeling really stressed and it was a way to get easy, fulfilling attention which I couldn't give him. I was really hurt. A week later he broke up with me for the first time, partly because I was so hurt and wanted to talk about what happened a lot and he couldn't handle that, he couldn't really explain his feelings or feel sorry about the situation. He did say that week multiple times that he loved me and didn't want to lose me, but he said it in a very monotonous way, clearly he didn't mean it.

I keep thinking that if I had been there more for him, if I had shown him more how important he was to me and hadn't taken him for granted, that we would maybe still be together. That he maybe wouldn't have downloaded that dating app. I keep thinking that I shouldn't have been so hard on him, because clearly he couldn't handle his emotions and he wasn't able to talk about what he did and why. I keep thinking I should have let it go more easily, pretend like it didn't happen. 

[babyducks]

Hi blooming,

It's always difficult to break up.   difficult feelings, painful feelings rise to the surface and it is hard to know what to do with them.

I don't mind telling you I made some pretty serious mistakes during my relationship.   just like the scrolling message bar often says here,   I was pretty immature going into my relationship.   I had some unrealistic expectations and poor ways of communicating them.

that was a hard realization to come too.    in my relationship there was so much blame, shame, hurt and pain going around it was hard to determine what was my stuff,... .and what was her stuff.  and then figure out what to do about it.

what I would suggest is to look at this:

The last few days I have been reading back some of our old whatsapp conversations (I can't bare to delete them because it somehow feels like deleting the relationship and deleting some of the happiest moments of my life) and I just feel so guilty.

and maybe focus less on whatsapp and more on why don't you feel you can delete the relationship.

what I have learned is that the practical daily events of these relationships reveal what's really going on with me.    feelings are just feelings, they aren't good or bad, right or wrong, positive or negative.   they come and go like waves.   

do you think it's possible that you are reading old messages because you feel like you still have something to learn from them?

'ducks

[Gemsforeyes]

Dear Blooming-

I am very sorry for the deep pain and sadness you are feeling.  I do understand the loss and feelings of regret you are having; but I urge you to step back a bit and try to stop blaming yourself for the disordered behavior of your former boyfriend.  You are NOT to blame for his mean words.  You already realize his history of instability in relationships.  And even with that, it's important that you try not to compare your experience with what little you know about his prior relationships.  None of those matter.  This young man is unhappy and sadly for him, he does appear to suffer from some BPD traits.  He had those traits long before you met him; and he will continue to bring those negative traits into every friendship and romantic relationship he ever enters... .until HE decides to work on changing his behavior and how he handles his emotions.  You cannot "fix" him.  It is likely he would only have hurt you more if your relationship had continued.
You can only ignore nasty words for so long, before they begin to erode your self worth.  You are NONE of the bad things he said you were.

If I am reading things correctly, you're a student.  And to my way of thinking, this is THE TIME for you to explore all classes, activities and friendships available to you in that learning and vibrant environment.  An exclusive relationship, (and not to place your former BF into a box), but with intense possessiveness that can accompany pwBPD, I just feel it would be a shame for you to sacrifice your university experience in a futile effort to please a pwBPD.   I'm sorry if I'm using too broad of a brush here.

And now Blooming... .this part is REALLY for you, dear girl - You do have one thing that not many people have... .I was a rower too.  You have that water.  And once you have that, you ALWAYS have that.  You can close your eyes and be in that boat.  Let that feeling take you and calm you.  We rowed at sun-up... .that is my vision and where my "dance on the water" takes place.  You rowed at sundown.  Take yourself there; and let that feeling soothe what ails you.  Do your drills in your mind, do your cool down, hear the sounds of the oars catching the water.  Let that be your meditation to begin your healing.  I know you know this magic.

Please give yourself permission to heal.  I would like you to realize... .not everyone we lose is a loss.  There is ALWAYS something to be gained, even through this pain.

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes

[FindingMe2011]

Sorry to open a new topic yet again, but I just feel so stuck and lost and sad and lonely and this forum is almost like a diary to me. It's so nice to know people here understand.


Nothing to be sorry for... .posting is therapeutic, so keep it up... .If you feel stuck, then that is what u are... .Not good or bad, just is... .Do something different, and learn/relearn to believe your instincts... .Validation of the illness, was heaven sent for me... .12+ yrs, and finally something made sense... .

I keep thinking that if I had been there more for him, if I had shown him more how important he was to me and hadn't taken him for granted, that we would maybe still be together. That he maybe wouldn't have downloaded that dating app. I keep thinking that I shouldn't have been so hard on him, because clearly he couldn't handle his emotions and he wasn't able to talk about what he did and why. I keep thinking I should have let it go more easily, pretend like it didn't happen.


You have strong codependency traits... .Yet you hung strong, on your boundaries  ... .If this person is pwBPD, or carries strong traits of... .believe me when I say, you have seen the best of BPD,and if you dont learn from this, chances are very good, you will find another like him... .I wish u well PEACE

[blooming]

Dear Blooming-

I am very sorry for the deep pain and sadness you are feeling.  I do understand the loss and feelings of regret you are having; but I urge you to step back a bit and try to stop blaming yourself for the disordered behavior of your former boyfriend.  You are NOT to blame for his mean words.  You already realize his history of instability in relationships.  And even with that, it's important that you try not to compare your experience with what little you know about his prior relationships.  None of those matter.  This young man is unhappy and sadly for him, he does appear to suffer from some BPD traits.  He had those traits long before you met him; and he will continue to bring those negative traits into every friendship and romantic relationship he ever enters... .until HE decides to work on changing his behavior and how he handles his emotions.  You cannot "fix" him.  It is likely he would only have hurt you more if your relationship had continued.
You can only ignore nasty words for so long, before they begin to erode your self worth.  You are NONE of the bad things he said you were.

If I am reading things correctly, you're a student.  And to my way of thinking, this is THE TIME for you to explore all classes, activities and friendships available to you in that learning and vibrant environment.  An exclusive relationship, (and not to place your former BF into a box), but with intense possessiveness that can accompany pwBPD, I just feel it would be a shame for you to sacrifice your university experience in a futile effort to please a pwBPD.   I'm sorry if I'm using too broad of a brush here.

And now Blooming... .this part is REALLY for you, dear girl - You do have one thing that not many people have... .I was a rower too.  You have that water.  And once you have that, you ALWAYS have that.  You can close your eyes and be in that boat.  Let that feeling take you and calm you.  We rowed at sun-up... .that is my vision and where my "dance on the water" takes place.  You rowed at sundown.  Take yourself there; and let that feeling soothe what ails you.  Do your drills in your mind, do your cool down, hear the sounds of the oars catching the water.  Let that be your meditation to begin your healing.  I know you know this magic.

Please give yourself permission to heal.  I would like you to realize... .not everyone we lose is a loss.  There is ALWAYS something to be gained, even through this pain.

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes

Dear Gemsforeyes,

Thank you so much for your reply, it actually made me cry.

It's really hard to not compare myself to those other relationships. I keep feeling like I failed him and I wasn't good enough because with one of his exes he had an on-off relationship of 3 years (not more than 5 months consecutively I think) and we have only been together for a year (consecutively) (and then two more months of on-off). I just don't understand why he was able to stay with her for that long and not with him. It must be because I did something wrong. I just wish I could have been the one who had made him happy. It really looked like that in the beginning. He said that with me it felt different, more relaxed, that he for the first time dared to plan months ahead in his relationship because it felt stable and like it would last for a very long time. And then somehow everything changed.

He indeed is suffering from some BPD traits. I recognize a lot of what I read in him. His fear of abandonment (which resulted in very controlling and jealous behaviour), his history of unstable relationships, how he can't be alone so he starts dating right when he ends it with someone, his emotional swings and his explosive anger.

He had those traits long before you met him; and he will continue to bring those negative traits into every friendship and romantic relationship he ever enters... .until HE decides to work on changing his behavior and how he handles his emotions.  You cannot "fix" him.  It is likely he would only have hurt you more if your relationship had continued.
You can only ignore nasty words for so long, before they begin to erode your self worth.  You are NONE of the bad things he said you were.

This really helped, thank you for that part. I need to try to keep this in my mind. It's just harder and harder to think this now that he's drifting further and further away from me and has found a replacement. It's hard to not think about how maybe with her it will work out or that they at least will have that blissful time together we experienced and what I would give the world for to experience again.

.  An exclusive relationship, (and not to place your former BF into a box), but with intense possessiveness that can accompany pwBPD, I just feel it would be a shame for you to sacrifice your university experience in a futile effort to please a pwBPD. 

You're not using too broad a brush there. I guess you're right. He really limited me in what I could do in my life, because he was really judgmental of some of the things I used to enjoy doing but stopped doing for him. Or he was judgmental of some of my friends who I now lost out of sight.

And rowing definitely helps! Being outside on the water, feeling the fresh air and the wind in my hair and constantly repeating that same movement is very therapeutic. I'm glad I didn't give up rowing for him (because he wanted that).

[blooming]

Nothing to be sorry for... .posting is therapeutic, so keep it up... .If you feel stuck, then that is what u are... .Not good or bad, just is... .Do something different, and learn/relearn to believe your instincts... .Validation of the illness, was heaven sent for me... .12+ yrs, and finally something made sense... .

Thank you! And I agree with you, learning about this illness and seeing how it explains so much of his behaviour has really helped me in trying to see that it is better this way and that all the things he blamed me for and accused me of maybe aren't true

You have strong codependency traits... .Yet you hung strong, on your boundaries   ... .If this person is pwBPD, or carries strong traits of... .believe me when I say, you have seen the best of BPD,and if you dont learn from this, chances are very good, you will find another like him... .I wish u well PEACE

What do you mean by strong codependency traits? I actually do not think I really held on to my boundaries, I let him cross them time and time again without real consequences. That's part of why it's so hard for me to accept that he's left me, because I thought that the way I was handling his behaviour was the best way (he told me so himself). What do you mean by that I have seen the best of BPD? That it can be much worse than I have experienced? I guess you're right, if I read all the stories on the forum.

[blooming]

Hi blooming,

It's always difficult to break up.   difficult feelings, painful feelings rise to the surface and it is hard to know what to do with them.

I don't mind telling you I made some pretty serious mistakes during my relationship.   just like the scrolling message bar often says here,   I was pretty immature going into my relationship.   I had some unrealistic expectations and poor ways of communicating them.

that was a hard realization to come too.    in my relationship there was so much blame, shame, hurt and pain going around it was hard to determine what was my stuff,... .and what was her stuff.  and then figure out what to do about it.

what I would suggest is to look at this:

and maybe focus less on whatsapp and more on why don't you feel you can delete the relationship.

what I have learned is that the practical daily events of these relationships reveal what's really going on with me.    feelings are just feelings, they aren't good or bad, right or wrong, positive or negative.   they come and go like waves.   

do you think it's possible that you are reading old messages because you feel like you still have something to learn from them?

'ducks

Yes, realising you made mistakes is very difficult. I have very low self esteem and am a perfectionist (have been in therapy for that for quite some time, also in combination with the eating disorder I suffered from), so realising that I did things wrong is very hard for me to cope with and drives me mad. I am alway always always thinking how I can make the people around me happy and not annoy them and now here is the person I loved most saying that I didn't make him happy anymore and I irritated him and did all these things wrong. It's just so hard.

I think indeed I am reading them to find some clue, something I can get out of them of what went wrong or where things took a turn for the worse or how I could have stopped it. But the more I read them the more I realise that this had been going on for quite some time. When I let my friends read the things he said to me they are very shocked and angry. For me it was just a normal conversation with my ex. But I also read back all the good moments and I don't really know why I'm doing that since it's only hurting me.

[Gemsforeyes]

Dear Blooming-

Your breakup is still very fresh.  Your pain is therefore raw and deep.  Please be patient with yourself and try to use the rowing meditation I gave you to soothe yourself a bit.  And then know this... .REALLY know this... .you ARE in control.  You CAN  and WILL heal from this relationship.

We, many of us in this community, enter into these relationships, NEVER having heard the term BPD.  And we don't know what hit us when we are knocked to the floor by these behaviors.  We feel as if our souls have been emptied and we have become a shell of our former selves.

A LOT of us are completely formed "adults" when this happens... .educated with careers and homes and grown children.  Yet we are completely destroyed by strangers who enter our lives at a time when we seem most vulnerable, and for whatever reason, we feel utterly blindsided and our emotions and worlds are obliterated.  Others have entered marriages and have very young children and struggle day in and day out with these behaviors.  Yet all of us, yes pretty much all of us, did see the red flags, the warning signs of the BPD behavior, and looking back, we subconsciously CHOSE to ignore those signs.  And we did NOT work on our own "broken parts".

This is NOT to hurt you, dear Blooming.  We have to take our lesson here.  I have to take my lesson here.  I did not have the strength to learn from the horrid lessons of my  marriage.  I was SO broken... .

So my lessons are being learned in this life with my BPD BF.   When we met, he appeared to me as a man so beautiful and so completely in love with me.  There to do anything and everything for me.  For ME.  He was so different from my ex-husband.  And then, BOOM!  An unprovoked RAGE like I'd never seen in my life.  Names I had NEVER been called in all my life... .that was 4.5 years ago.  :)uring one of our breakups, in May 2017, I looked up the phrase, "unprovoked rage in men".  And there it was... ."BPD".  I read and I read.  I joined this forum.  I had already made him move out of my home; (in January 2016 during another RAGE) but when I was ready, I let him back (slowly) into my life.  There are conditions.  

I am now 60 years old... .and so is he.  I refuse to accept any more abusive treatment.  He does NOT have a friend in the world.  I have a LOT of friends.  He would be happy to JUST have me and no one else.  That will NEVER happen.

Blooming... .it is NOT that I am strong.  I am NOT strong.  I admittedly struggle with PTSD.  It is a lifelong battle for me, but after a 19-year abusive marriage, I just cannot let what happened in my youth rule everyday of my life anymore.  At some point, YOU decide to take the reins.  No one can bring me happiness except for me.  No matter WHAT happened when I was young.  I will NEVER resolve that... . so "catch and release, baby!"  That's all I have.

And codependency.  Yes.  I am codependent.  PLEASE... .look that up.  And if those traits fit you, then take steps to heal those behaviors so you can become more balanced in future friendships and romantic partnerships.  I'm telling you, your self-respect will go up a few notches!  I am codependent, as are many of us here, or we would NOT accept this type of behavior.

Another request... .try to stop beating yourself up over the "length" of your relationship compared with what he told you about prior girlfriends.  BPD behavior can be very severe and VERY painful.  We are NOT their cure.  As another poster stated, It is so vital for you to learn from this experience so that you do NOT enter another, more damaging relationship with a  PwBPD.  This is where learning about codependent tendencies comes in, and it's key to our growth and healing.

I'm going to say it again, dear Blooming... .when I get stuck for a minute, I say it to me, I say it to good friends... ,"Catch and Release, Baby!"  Most don't know what I mean; but you do!

Much love to you.

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes

[araneina]

What do you mean by strong codependency traits? I actually do not think I really held on to my boundaries, I let him cross them time and time again without real consequences. That's part of why it's so hard for me to accept that he's left me, because I thought that the way I was handling his behaviour was the best way (he told me so himself). What do you mean by that I have seen the best of BPD? That it can be much worse than I have experienced? I guess you're right, if I read all the stories on the forum.

From what you wrote, it sounds like you continued to enjoy your hobbies/pastimes and go out with friends during this relationship.  To me that's maintaining some kind of boundary.  In contrast, I dropped everything I was doing when he wanted to see me or talk to me.  Plans with my family?  Nope, he needed me.  Time to sleep?  Nope, he's calling me, drunk and suicidal, I'd better talk to him until 1am even though I work the next day.  I'm severely codependent and had absolutely no boundaries with my ex, which did neither one of us any favors.

[FindingMe2011]

What do you mean by strong codependency traits?

Most on here suffer from this... .Its an insight on how we become enmeshed, in these toxic r/s... .there are lessons here that explain this

I actually do not think I really held on to my boundaries, I let him cross them time and time again without real consequences.

Yes and no... .could they become stronger?, sure... .they obviously were strong enough, to push the illness elsewhere... .it ALWAYS chooses the path of least resistance... .it was nothing personal... .its an equal opportunity offender

That's part of why it's so hard for me to accept that he's left me, because I thought that the way I was handling his behaviour was the best way (he told me so himself).

pwBPD have fleeting feelings, and feelings are facts... .So what is good, at one moment, may not work the next... .words are just that... .actions speak the truth

What do you mean by that I have seen the best of BPD?

We all, put our best foot forward, when we meet potential new partners... .The illness mirrors you, and you basically, fall in love with yourself... .your soulmate... .As problems arise (b/c your dead if you have no problems) the illness rears its ugly head... .You now spend the rest of the r/s, trying to get back to the idealization stage... .the illness has no path to get there

That it can be much worse than I have experienced? I guess you're right, if I read all the stories on the forum

Once you learn of the illness, and your own shortcomings, and how the toxic soup was made... .You will grow to understand, you dodged a bullet... .I wish u well, PEACE