Could this be BPD?

[FrustratedSpouse]

Hello,

It was recently suggested to me by a social worker that my wife may have BPD, but there is no diagnosis.  My wife has been reported to the Ministry of Children and Family Development (we're in British Columbia, Canada, if that sounds unfamiliar) multiple times for uncontrolled rages, screaming at me and our children, and more.  I was called in to talk to a social worker after my wife's mandated counseling was over.

The social worker said that my wife blames others, mainly me, for all her problems and is in denial and refuses to take any responsibility for her actions.  She urged my to think long and hard about whether I wanted to spend the remainder of my life with her (without actually telling me I should leave).  It was when I used the phrase "I feel like I'm always walking on eggshells" that she mentioned the book, which I read that week.

On the one hand I was hurt to hear this person saying such negative things about my wife, whom I love.  I had been expecting them to tell me we needed joint counseling or something, not to hint strongly that I should leave her.  But it also was quite validating to have a professional recognize the traits in her that I have seen for so long (but few people take me seriously).  The people and scenarios described in the book describe her to a 'T'.

* When she's in a good mood, which is more often than not, she is very happy and lovely and affectionate.  More than most people, I'd say.  People tend to like her a lot because of it.

* But things that might annoy most people, or maybe even make them angry, can suddenly and unexpectedly trigger a nuclear response from her.  She can literally go from "I love you" to "I hate you so much and wish I'd never even met you" in a few minutes."

* When she's raging she can say the most hateful, hurtful things.  Not just to me, but to our kids (we are a blended family: she has two kids from a previous marriage, I have two, and we have one together).  She has screamed at my step-daughter (17 now) to back her bags and move out, or to go live with her father (both of our exes have zero contact with the kids, court ordered).  She has told my son (almost 16 now but under 10 at the time) that his mother really does love him and wants to be with him but I won't let her see him (she abandoned us when he was 4 and has no interest in him)

* There's rarely an "in-between" stage.  It is usually either "I love you" or "I want a divorce". 

* On more than one of these occasions she has started texting friends that she is "finally" leaving me and needs help to find an apartment or suite to rent.

* Many, many nights after a blow up I will come to bed and she'll just start talking angrily.  She hates me, she has no feelings for me at all, I'm lazy, I mistreat her, she wants to leave, etc.  She can go on and on like that for an hour or more.  Sometimes I just leave, but many times I literally pull the covers over my head and actually stick my fingers in my ears and wait for her to fall asleep.

* She's very controlling.  One time I had the seats out of our family van and she needed them in for something the next day.  It was late, I said I'll put them back in in the morning as there was plenty of time.  After yelling at me do do it NOW she actually called my mother and asked her to tell me to do it NOW.  Any little thing she asks of me has to be done immediately or she starts nagging me about it (literally within seconds sometimes).  It doesn't matter if I'm in the middle of something else and can't do it right now.

* We can be sitting at the table and she's on her facebook, which is fine, but if I pick up my phone too she will get offended that I'm on my phone "all the time", my phone is my "girlfriend" (?), that when I'm with her I should be with her and not my phone (which is true, but she's on her phone already).

* She gets jealous if her daughter (my step-daughter) hugs me or shows any affection, tells her that I am *her* husband and she isn't.  She gets jealous if I pay "too much attention" to my son (like asking him to walk the dog with me).

* She has never accepted my son (almost 16).  He has ADHD and possibly ODD (oppositional defiance disorder) to begin with, was traumatized when his mother left and has trust issues, and now is a teen with all the attitude that comes with the teen years, so he can be difficult.  But she is the type who thinks depressed people just need to think happy thoughts, and ADHD is a choice.  So she is always on his case about things as minor as which hand he holds his fork with.

* Often her rage will subside and within 24 to 48 hours it's like nothing has happened, sometimes longer.

* If I lose my cool and say something nasty to her in return, she will focus on that as if that was what the whole thing was about.

* I feel that she truly doesn't remember these meltdowns properly.  She remembers anything bad I or the kids might have said or done, and knows that she yelled a lot (but only because we make her do that), but she will deny calling me an ass over and over again in front of the kids, or saying most of the hateful things she says.

* She almost never apologizes for anything, but will insist that I or the kids owe her an apology.

There's so much more... .  I love her and want to save this marriage, but I don't see how.

Two days ago she got a letter from the Ministry about her case(s) that pretty much said the same things the social worker said to me... .  that counseling hasn't worked, that she is in denial, that what she is doing could be considered "domestic violence", and that if they have to get involved again she could be removed from the home.

She opened and read that letter while in the middle of a rage at her daughter, which was like gas on a fire.  She's been at a hotel for two nights now and probably will be again tonight.  She's looking for places to live on her own.  She's talking about divorce, and canceling a family vacation in March... .

I'm rambling.  I'm not sure what I hope to achieve by venting here, I guess I'm just relieved to (possibly) have a label for all this and to find others in a similar boat, and maybe see what others think of her behaviour.  I feel bad for writing all this, it makes her sound like a monster, but most of the time she is very  sweet and lovely.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[grd123]

I empathize with your situation. I am in Ontario Canada and dealt with many of the scenarios you are describing. My life was tumultuous to say the least. I also read the book walking on eggshells and it described my life and existence in very clear terms.
  My wife was seen and presented an image outside the home completely different than in the home. There were many screaming incidents over many trivial or minor indiscretions such as not washing a utensil properly or vacuuming properly which would lead to a marathon argument until 3AM when I would fall asleep. I had to be up at 5AM to get to work but would be blamed for being emotionally abusive because of the fact I fell asleep.
  Also in 22 years of marriage I never once received an apology but gave out hundreds. I felt her moods went in cycles of 6-7 weeks and i was constantly threatened with divorce also. My wife would bring up issues that happened twenty years ago like they were from yesterday into an argument about something totally different. One being that we lost 2000.00 dollars on a condo we sold 20 years ago and that it was my fault , nothing to do with the poor real estate market when we sold. Yet a house we sold and made money on was never mentioned ever.
  I also felt like you about saving my marriage and suggested counselling but my wife would not go. After I experienced most abuses ,verbal, emotional and physical abuse my marriage came to an end.I had a high pressure hose put between my eyes and turned on, got kneed in the head and hit with a stool and broom amongst other abusive incidents I had to look at why I was doing this. The counseler I was dealing with told me that once you have suffered physical abuse you have no option but to leave.  I have three children but they are all older.  The longer i stayed in this toxic environment I now realize I was losing myself. My self esteem and self confidence was evaporating. I have been out of this situation for three years now and my life has improved. I very much empathize with the very trying and chaotic life you are dealing with and do hope it works out for you. Until someone has lived what you are living they will never understand.

[FrustratedSpouse]

Well, she came home last night after we were all asleep.

First thing she did was wake up our daughter (17) and complain she she hadn't cleaned her room while she was gone, and it had better be done by this afternoon or she's throwing everything in the garbage.  She also told her that she (and the rest of us) must really want the Ministry to come and remove her from the house since we were doing so much to make her lose her temper.

Then she woke up our son (16) to complain that the kitchen was exactly as she'd left it, that nobody had bothered to do dishes while she was gone.  We had, of course, done at least two loads of dishes, cleaned the counters and floor, etc.  But there were a few cups and such in the sink so in her mind we hadn't done anything.

Then she came to bed and woke me up to complain about the dishes too.  I told her that we had done them, that there was a load finishing up when I went to sleep.  Her response was "sure, ok, whatever".

This morning she said "I need to talk with you", right when we were trying to get kids ready for school.  I said "we don't need to talk right at this moment".  She said "I want you to cancel the tickets... .", referring to our flight tickets for an upcoming family vacation in March.  Or rather, she wants to go by herself without anybody else.  We have cancellation insurance, but it inly lets you cancel in case of something major like death, major illness, house burning down, etc. so we either all go or we lose the money.  She say's she ok with losing the money.

Now she's gone to work for the day and it's not even 8:30 here and I'm already exhausted. 

[Mutt]

Hi FrustratedSpouse,



I’d like to join grd123 and welcome you to the family. I’m sorry that you’re going through a difficult time and I’m glad that you have found us. We can’t diagnose someone because we’re not professionals, only a professional can do that! What we can do is look at BPD traits.

It helps to read as much as you can about the disorder. It will help you with understanding why your wife behaves the way that she does and it will help with depersonalizing the behaviours. The behaviours are not personal to you it’s something that your wife is going through.

You mentioned that it takes her a day or two to calm down. Feelings are quicksilver to a pwBPD thy feel emotions more intensively, they say that they feel them thousand fold more intense then a non.

BPD is an emotional dysregulation disorder a pwBPD can’t self sooth or regulate their emotions it takes them longer to return back to their emotional baseline of happiness it takes your wife a couple of days to come back to baseline.

afternoon or she's throwing everything in the garbage.  She also told her that she (and the rest of us) must really want the Ministry to come and remove her from the house since we were doing so much to make her lose her temper.

BPD is a persecution complex where the person truly believes that their problems are not caused by themselves they’re caused by others.

I’d suggest to become familiar with drama triangles a pwBPD will cast themselves often as a victim and sometimes as rescuer rarely persecutor, they will cast the non as rescuer sometimes and persecutor often.

Learn identify these patterns so that you depersonalize it and stop the drama by moving yourself to the centre of the triangle, do t take sides with any of the roles rescuer, victim or persecutor from the center it doesn’t let the drama cycle to  continue.



Escaping Conflict and the Karpman Drama Triangle

You can find the lessons to the right side of the board. There’s a lot of material here on the site become familiar with BPD. Your wife is just wired differently.

[FrustratedSpouse]

Thanks for the replies... .

I can sense that's calming down a bit, but she's still quite cold (calling my by my first name when normally it's "sweetie", abrupt on the phone, etc), but actually got her to laugh a few minutes ago.

Anyway, this morning she told me that I have to call the Ministry and tell them that all those things in the letter they sent are "lies".  That she doesn't have a problem with her temper, doesn't scream at me and the kids, and so on.

SO. MUCH. DENIAL.

Since I was planning on calling the social worker anyway (to ask about local counselors/therapists that are familiar with BPD) I said I'd talk to them, without promising to "fix" it.

I'm worried because she genuinely seems to believe that I am conspiring with our three teens and one seven year old to tell lies about her to get her removed from the home.

[Mutt]

Hi FrustratedSpouse,

You sound worried have you seen her like this before? You’ve been married for 22 years . I recall at the beginning of my marriage I was split white 100% of the time and then it was 80% of the time until I was slowly split black. The idealization phases were getting shorte and shorter and I was getting more frustrated because the period that she was blame shifting and devaluatting me were longer.

[FrustratedSpouse]

Actually another person who replied to this thread was married to their spouse for 22 years, I've only been married to mine for 10 years.

I've seen this BPD-like behavior since even before we got married, although it was less frequent and less nasty at first (still in the honeymoon phase back then).  But generally, I've seen this rage behavior many times over the 10 years.

What's extra worrisome this time is that the letter she received seems, in her mind, to prove that the kids and I conspired against her to try and get her removed from the house.  There's never been a scary letter from the authorities before, and it seems to be bringing out a level of paranoia that I have't seen prior (on top of the regular raging).

[Turkish]

How did the social worker get involved? Or how did she get reported?

[grd123]

Hi Frustrated Spouse. I can understand your comment or feeling of behaviour worsening over time. Sounds exactly like my situation. As the 22 years of my marriage went on my spouses behaviour towards me became more and more abusive and more extreme. I was going to go to the police on more than one occasion to report abusive incidents.  At the end she exhibited delusional thoughts and accused me of incidents that absolutely never happened.I would go into work early every day and kept a journal of the incidents I was experiencing and took pictures of certain things. I finally went in and spoke with my family doctor and showed him what I was dealing with at home, showed him all my documentation
 and his comment was "you have to get out of this".

[FrustratedSpouse]

The most recent time she was reported it was by the school counselor at the high-school that two of the teens (hers) go to, and probably the time before that too but I'm less sure.  They won't tell you, of course.  My wife was assuming it was the neighbors until she got the letter.

But prior to that there was an incident where she got physical with our daughter (her daughter, my step daughter) and pinched her arm really bad and slapped her.  I was at work, but our daughter fled, ended up at a neighbor/friend of my wife's and she took her to the police.  That was the end of that friendship, and another involvement by the Ministry.

And I've since learned that she was reported long before I even met her for locking her son (3 or 4 at the time, now my 15 year old step son) outside in cold weather without a coat to "calm him down".  It was on an enclosed patio and she could see him through the sliding glass door, so she figured it was fine, apparently.

[Turkish]

So others reported... .that isn't in your sphere of influence to control, though your wife thinks otherwise.  Your wife is running,  in a sense, and looking to you and maybe the kids to rescue.  Though I wouldn't wish government services on anybody (my brief interaction with CPS was scary),  multiple reports seem like this is justified. Do you feel any desire to fix this for her like she asks?

It's been said that sunlight is the best of disinfectants.  Similarly, my T told me that the authorities in cases like this is like shining a flashlight upon things people prefer to keep hidden.  What do you see yourself doing here,  keeping in mind the triangulation dynamic that Mutt posted above?

[DaddyBear77]

I wanted to remind everyone that this board, "Romantic Relationship | Bettering a Relationship or Reversing a Breakup" is focused on finding solutions for bettering a relationship. We ask all members to refrain from suggesting that another member "Run" (i.e., leave the relationship immediately) - this includes suggestions that it's hopeless, nothing will change, there's only one option, etc (generally referred to as "covert run messages"

- DaddyBear77 on behalf of bpdfamily Staff

[ClareITY]

Hello and Welcome from a "newbie"

I found this site only a few weeks ago after, just like you, I found the Eggshells Book. I as well was in awe over finally finding a name for what my (male) spouse was doing. As I read about your wife I checked off every trait you mentioned as one I am living with as well.  My husband has maintained private friendships with his still single/never married guy friends at age 50,  "safe",  low-functioning friends so instead of using a hotel has left for weekends and overnights to stay with these guys. He has canceled many many events at the last minute.  He tells his single friends his irrational untrue list of events so they can't "believe" he's married to me and they further puff up his delusions. It's also my second marriage and we have two sons, ages 8 and 9, of our own. I am basically the mom, the dad, the homemaker, financial backbone, etc etc. all while I hold a job etc.

Some things that have helped:
I have been seeing a Family Therapist (I never brought the kids in yet cause we have so much to cover for just me) since August who has helped me set limits, boundaries AND while taking into account the Family Unit and what this is like from kids' perspective and how I can best help them while putting on my own "air mask/life support" first so I am even able to care properly for them. I vow in spite of this to still be a connected, well above average parent, but I could not do this without my therapist.  (Next step is I do want to set up kid appointments.)

I attended DivorceCare.org to put myself in a support group of people CONSIDERING seperation/divorce and met many people in various phases who had great contacts, ideas and support; much like this website but they were live in person ($20 program cost) and the spiritual basis for the group was helpful to me.

I  read daily affirmations " The Language of Letting Go" by Melanie Beattie

I had a year ago attended CODA.org support group (free) to gain more insight on how to set boundaries. I started healing from the inside-out and the support from others who were experience very similiar issues was amazing.  With 10+ people a week hearing my story and updates, atleast one or more said something I could learn from.  They motivated me during the week to stay strong and I was in turn looking forward to their weekly updates and anticipated them doing strong things.

I have forced myself to stay social, stay connected, plan outings for me and kids often times with other families or single parents. I give my spouse sometimes the option to join us but don't have any expectations; this is when he usually comes but not always. And I am finally honestly OK if he doesn't come cause I have a created a joyous life outside of him, outside of BPD, etc. This took a while but I finally got there.

I pray daily for guidance

I found a new therapist who has training in DV (domestic violence/abuse), ADD, BPD. I was AMAZED how great it felt to find someone with training both in abuse AND BPD and marriage. My husband actually came with me for the first time this week and the therapist after two hours of listening told my husband what I waited for years to happen: someone other than me told him he was abusive.

So far he is in denial still and said  - in classic fashion he still blames me - and said "Yes I hear him say that but it's you pushing my buttons! If you didn't do that there would be no problems!"

So next I googled how to detach from emotional abusive and I found: "The Emotionally Destructive Marriage" which gives extremely clear direction (much like the Eggshells Workbook) on how and what and when to say how to bring peace by way to handle our spouses. I tried just a small section on my husband and he made an appointment with the therapist who specializes in abuse/BPD.  They key is I also told him I am finally ready to let go of this house, move, etc. let go of my dreams, let a family court judge have the final word on my future life vs. allow my children to suffer any longer and allow myself this oppression. I was not there before and he knew it.

At this time, it is still unclear what will happen next but I would rather be in this stage vs. the "I have no idea what is happening" stage where I allowed my self to be naive caretaker and keep working harder and harder till I exhausted myself. My new life of self-care is very different from what I expected but in some ways far more deep having gone through and in the suffering. Some parts of me have awakened and I have learned how to have both sorrow and pure elation all in the same hour or same day.

I wish you grace, courage, strength and the very best on your journey!