Divorce... a 2nd Time

[Julian]

You'd think I'd learn... .but I had a child in the middle of it.

I married my wife 13 years ago, we waited a while 'till we had our 1st child (some 6 years into the marriage, I wanted us to save up, know each other better (that turned out well).

She was always quiet, low on emotion, understated. I put it down as a quirk, nothing was malicious. You could see her so many times being quiet and almost hear the wheels and gears in her head clicking and whirring away with thoughts you just had to guess because she'd rarely -if ever- express them.

1st Child was born and she went heywire. My parents/friends put it down to hormones, but this one lasted and became 'weird'. She started walking out at the slightest of remarks, one time left me with the infant and got out at 4am... .just walking.

She was estranged from her parents, but got back in touch on my advice (not so smart but I was truly running out of options as she was falling apart).

Next thing you know, they take her side and I -the guy who only goes to work and comes back- was the bad guy, hurting their little princess that they had kicked out and abandoned when she was married (with their consent initially).

So they advise us all to go to a therapist they knew, I say sure why not we tried everything else. That's when I hear the BPD term. Therapist says she has it and needs help. They all go into denial mode, she accuses me of flirting with the therapist (I wasn't aware I was that good ).

She finally goes to live with them, and takes my boy who was 2. I plead with her not to go legal and that instead of wasting it on lawyers we can use it for our son, she refuses, starts hitting me with solicitor letters. I decide I won't be pushed around so I divorce her.

She goes for half of everything, I say meh. She lives by herself with my boy in a deplorable neighborhood. I miss my boy and come to an empty home just me and the cat, cry a little, have dinner, go to bed.

Visitations are fun, I show up one time ring the bell and she's not there, I get a message saying "Oh didn't I tell you? I'm sorry I had a friend's wedding to go to"

Then it gets... .  weirder. In my bed I'm woken by the doorbell. It's our not so friendly police asking if they could come in. I'm rubbing my eyes wondering what the... .  so I say sure... .big mistake. That gives them the right to turn my place upside down, confiscate my PC and hardware.

Turns out my wonderful ex has told them I'm basically holding pedophile images on my PC... .   sweet! so the morning I'm supposed to be in the office I'm in a cell for 4 hours before being discharged and told I'm under a 6 week investigation.

Within hours I get a call from my solicitors to say she's been on the phone to them to say I cannot see my son while this is ongoing (her calling within hours of my arrest tells you how much she planned this). My solicitors say she has no legal remit to do this I say it's fine, let her... .

Surprise, surprise I'm cleared of any wrong doing, the detective in charge apologizes and they return my hardware basically mashed up and broken.

6 months later I get a rose through my letterbox on Valentine's Day. Why it's my sweetheart ex      ... .'aint love grand ?

I choose to ignore this, keep communication to a minimum ... .and then a couple of months later I get a call from her family (we never spoke since the divorce). They say come pick your son up. I ask why, they don't give a reason.

I go pick him up and later that day social services gives me a call to tell me that she's had a psychotic meltdown and is held in a ward.

3 weeks later with me having the time of my life with my boy, she comes and takes him back. I'm hurt beyond words as I loved every minute I had with him and didn't want it to end.

Then next year or so she proceeds to do things she has never done: take medication, be self aware, apologize, and be humble.

All the while I'm desperate to be with my boy.

We float the idea of getting back. She starts gaining weight because of the meds, I don't mind, her head's screwed on right and that is all that matters. So I say sure, we re-marry, go back and I can't believe my life is coming round again, all the hurt, all the wrong things were rectifying themselves, my boy is back.

We stay like this for 2 years... .and then one day she tells me she's missed her time of the month... .   I take a gulp. She does the test and yep, we're expecting.

Knowing what the 1st pregnancy did to her I plead with her to think things through, she assures me she'll be fine. I'm mortified if the anti-psychotic meds might harm the child inside her, doctors say it's ok, she decides to go through with it (I start mentally packing her bags for her).

2nd boy is born, and right on time, same as the 1st one at about 13 months in (when they begin to form their own personalities and no more breast feeding or depending on her) she starts talking total nonsense again. Wants to get a retail job, wants me to quit my office work and to raise the children on welfare.

I figure knowing what we have been through there is no way on earth she'll do the same thing again... .     can you guess what happens next? yep, she walked out and goes to her parents.

This time though, she left the kids with me.

That's great, but I have a job who's going to look after them? she says to give them to social services... .    responsible mommy right there

I divorce her again.

I'm living with my kids, my folks are looking after the boys while I'm at work then I come home and pick up.

She comes and sees them a few hours during the weekend. What happens next who knows?

I'm sorry, I had no question to ask nor point to make... .  I just wanted to put my story 'out there' to see if it makes any more sense in print form than in real life 

[Enabler]

You’re a legend amongst chaos. Good for you buddy   

[ForeverDad]

Yours is one of the less common experiences here where the mother walks away.  As sad as it is, count your blessings she's now at the edge of your lives — and don't let go of the kids!  Getting help from your family or daycare facilities is far better than struggling to live a life where the tail is wagging the dog.

My ex too behaved strangely after our child was born.  I actually investigated Post Partum Depression (PPD) then when she stopped nursing she almost returned to normal — for a couple months.  Then she was triggered again.

[BasementDweller]

Hi, Julian -

This must be a horrible and heartbreaking experience for you. I'm sorry you are going through this.

One thing that stood out to me is that you mentioned your wife was quiet, stoic and non-emotional prior to givnig birth to your first child then went "haywire" after the birth of each child, even after a period of stability in between (With meds, of course.) This sounds very much like post-partum psychosis. And if left untreated, or re-instigated by another birth, it can be a very serious and dangerous disorder. She may or may not have BPD, (or bi-polar, or similar) but her stoic and reserved persona that she had before the birth of your first son doesn't quite mesh with BPD, though there can be "quiet BPD's"  - but they are still generally eratic in their moods and a bit high-strung. You were married to her for over six years before you saw this type of behavior, and it started after she had a baby. 6+ years is a pretty long time for a pwBPD to keep that under wraps, and remain stoic and reserved.

The timing and the behaviors you describe sound like some sort of psychosis. Typically the onset of this type of psychosis is shortly after the birth, but there has been a lot of research indicating that post-partum depression can linger for a very long time after giving birth and if not treated, later become psychosis... .what triggers that flip is mysterious, but perhaps stopping breastfeeding, or the child becoming more demanding... .it could be anything? Has she been diagnosed with anything else other than the one therapist who said she had BPD? The doctors that put her on the psych meds... .did they mention post-partum psychosis, or explore that avenue?

Have a look here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postpartum_psychosis

Is it possible this could be what is ailing her? Maybe there are other things mixed in, but if this hasn't been suggested yet, it might be worth looking into, for her safety and your family's. She may have had an underlying depressive disorder (which would explain her seeming emotionless those first several years) but it went really off the rails into psychotic territory after having the children. Is that possible, do you think? Getting to the bottom of this will help in treatment options as well, since if this is mainly caused by transient psychosis and not primarily BPD, treatment would be quite different. Can she be worked up by a good specialist with experience treating this type of thing to see if there is something that's being missed?

Best of luck to you. 

[Julian]

Thank you so much for all your kind words of support Enabler, ForeverDad and BasementDweller.

BasementDweller - I hadn't come across post-partum psychosis and will definitely do some reading, thank you.

If I actually had one remark to make in all of this, is how juvenile and irresponsible her parents have acted ever since they got back into her life.

They seem to be far more interested in circling the wagons around their suddenly precious daughter and in complete denial of what is happening and the impact this has on their own grandchildren.

They keep putting out the line of "We don't know what the problem is between you two" as if a mother getting up and abandoning her 13 month old and 5 year old boys is just something that happens everyday. I tried to tell them that their daughter's most serious incident (the psychotic breakdown she suffered and was put into a ward) occurred on THEIR watch when she was fully divorced and living on her own and I was totally out of the picture, but again, keeping up appearances is far more important to them than getting to the root cause of this mess.

Reason for me saying all this BasementDweller is you asked some important questions which I have no answer for since I  was kept in the dark by both, her parents and the medical team. All confidential and private. I didn't even know she on a psych ward until someone from social services called me late at night while I was putting our son to sleep. Her parents had said nothing. Never mind that our kids spend time with her and what potential risk that may involve but no I don't need to know anything apparently. I can list all the meds she was on but that's it, your guess is as good as mine.

Definitely though, the birth of our boys sent her on a downward spiral. The 1st 9 or so months you wouldn't find a better mother (that's when they are completely dependent on her for everything), the moment they learn to shake their heads at certain things is when the weird stuff started coming out "but, but he doesn't like me anymore... ." or when our boy is in a feeding chair start smiling and gurgling happy as I pass by she would remark to him "I was with you from the beginning why are you just smiling at him for?" (in a jokey manner in truth, but there is an underlying tone to it of seriousness all the same).

[BasementDweller]

Hi, Julian -

That sounds terrible, and even worse so, because her family is in denial/secrecy as well, it seems. Is she on any medications now, or getting any therapy? Besides the odd paranoid statements about thinking the kids don't love her, is she usually ok with them? Do you have any support in all this, like a friend or counselor you can talk to? Bearing all the brunt of this alone can't be a fun ride.

[Panda39]

They seem to be far more interested in circling the wagons around their suddenly precious daughter and in complete denial of what is happening and the impact this has on their own grandchildren.

Can you see the triangulation here?  You are the "Persecutor" or the bad guy, your wife is the "Victim", and they, her parents are her "Rescuers".  That would be her parents and even your wife's perspective, of course your perspective has everyone in different roles around the triangle.

More on the Karpman Drama Triangle... .

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=108440.0

Can you see some ways to take yourself out of the triangle?  Are there some boundaries you can set regarding her parents inserting themselves into your relationship with your wife? Can you take yourself off the triangle?

I figure knowing what we have been through there is no way on earth she'll do the same thing again... .     can you guess what happens next? yep, she walked out and goes to her parents.

This time though, she left the kids with me.

That's great, but I have a job who's going to look after them? she says to give them to social services... .    responsible mommy right there

I divorce her again.

I'm living with my kids, my folks are looking after the boys while I'm at work then I come home and pick up.

She comes and sees them a few hours during the weekend.

This is tough on so many levels for you and your boys    I know this isn't the way you planned to raise your sons.  But things to be grateful for... .you and your sons are together, your parents are supportive, your boys are with the more emotionally healthy parent, you are able to parent as you wish without interference from your ex (many on the co-parenting board dream of this!), you have created stability for your boys... .

Believe me I know from personal experience how hard it is to be a single parent with no support from your ex, but you have an opportunity here to be a great dad, to be involved in your kids lives and have good relationships with your kids... .they are so worth the time and energy.

Panda39

[Enabler]

Hey Julian,

I have also experienced a change in my wife around the 1yr - 18m period, fortunately my second daughter was born 20m after my first and I think the very thought of being pregnant settled her. Check out the link below and read the Parenting section, it made a lot of sense to me.

https://bpdfamily.com/content/why-we-struggle-in-relationships

I believe the crux of the issue here is that a baby is validating, if you feed it, change it and tick all the right boxes, it "should" do what you ask it to do and not answer you back. You have almost complete control and I found that my wife was at peace in herself. She had something to focus on and that focused behaved in a predictable validating way. As the children grew up and discovered choice, they could invalidate her, they could cause her stress. She is/was a good mother but struggles with the chaos children bring. She struggles with them invalidating her and her natural reaction to run away is tough when you're responsible for them.

I would go so far to say that she deflects and projects the anger she has inside her from the children's invalidation onto me... .she can't bare the reality that she actually hates our children sometimes, that is intolerable and immoral to her... .so those bad feelings have to caused by someone else... .me!

My dysfunctional in-laws and her sister have rallied round her to "support her" in her quest for a divorce. They too cannot see they are the origin of her dysfunction as much as they are oblivious to they own dysfunctional behaviour.

I am sure it's of little consolation to you but may I second Panda39's comments about you being the functioning parent and mentioned something my T said to me "Enabler, you are the one who is holding the family together, you are the one earning a living, paying the bills, cleaning the house and looking after the kids on the weekends, you should be proud of yourself".

[Julian]

Again thank you all for your continued thoughts and responses, totally appreciated 

BasementDweller - I honestly don't know if she is still on medication or is seeing a therapist. I know she got a retail job shortly after moving out. I can well imagine she is on meds as she was on some at the time of her leaving, and she did have a team of early prevention specialists in touch with her before she left so I have to assume they are very much active with her now.

Officially though, your guess is as good as mine since we have 0 communication.

When it comes to the kids she's ummmmm   ... .cordial? very formal, none of the mother hugs children and showers them with kisses you might associate but this isn't just now; this has always been the case. That's why they gravitated to me; I'm no magician, I just gave them the time to air their views and entertain them as a best friend while she just sat phone scrolling all the time in her own little world.

I would say she does care for them, as in I don't believe she would harm them, but is it your typical mom-children bond? nope, nowhere near.

Panda39 - Oh the triangulation you mentioned occurred before the 1st divorce. I had read about it and felt it totally at the time. Here I was trying to keep my family together and these people were more interested in scoring points. That's when I read 'Walking on eggshells' and saw this board and things began to click into place. I said forget this I'm out, filed for divorce and have been pretty much not communicating with her parents ever since.

These days they have nothing to do with me, even when she went destructive the 2nd time round they never dared to come near our home, she just went to them and that's that.

I hear the odd rumor now her mom goes around relatives saying I was physical with her so she had to leave, a lie her mom is so quick to spread that one of those relatives responded to her by saying "Well if he was really physical towards your daughter how could she leave her sons with such a monster? "

Enabler - Your words about validation ring true on many levels and I totally felt that with both our sons. She has chaos in her mind so she makes a point of wanting to control things, and when they are infants that's easy enough everything from feeding to sleeping is timed to perfection.

However, the moment their personality starts forming she wasn't able to process it.


By the way, thank you all greatly for your concern, life is exceptionally hard and I'm always tight for time (social life non-existant) but I want to assure you I am typing all of this with a wry smile. This isn't my first rodeo with her and as you read I have been through so much worse. I got used to things, the first few months were sheer chaos as my son was just 13 months and I had no idea how to change his diapers or cut his nails or what vaccines he was on or was due but now he and I are far more settled and we know what needs to go where etc, and the eldest is my rock, he is simply way, way more mature than he has any right to be, so we're good.

Yes, you're absolutely right Panda39 I never planned to raise them this way, not in a million years would I have thought I'd end up like this (especially after the 1st episode I would have thought everyone would learn something to avoid this fate). There are times (at night) I sit there while the boys are asleep and think "is this it? is this the best it'll be?" but the rest of the time I just feel totally blessed and my sense of duty to them is way too strong for me to quit or feel defeated.