Cunning and manipulative, or was she just conflicted?

[benzibox]

I've very recently broken up with my girlfriend of 8 months, following which she almost attempted to commit suicide, and I thought she had for a minute or so. It was a quickly intense relationship which soon became tainted by arguments and her over reliance on my help. She suffered from extreme anxiety and rapid changes in mood. I always knew that something wasn't right but a shared trauma at the beginning of the relationship gave me a sense of responsibility to her. Affection was never enough for her but I felt a sense of guilt when she would withdraw from me due to a perceived lack of it, because I was aware of my own intimacy issues.

I didn't realise she was borderline until now but the personality fits her perfectly (although more a 'quiet' borderline) and how it effects relationships is eerily predictive of ours. Information on this site has really helped me understand what went on in that relationship, and that my consistent failure to help her remain stable would likely be inevitable. I issue a heartfelt thanks for this comfort during a time where I am still being emotionally bombarded by my ex.

It is deeply confusing to me because I believe at her heart she is a kind person, and that she truly loves me, but after reading the underlying reasons for her behaviour I feel quite used as she has depended upon me entirely for emotional and financial support. I don't blame her, she is a victim as much as anyone, but I can't help but feel like despite her good intentions this condition made her simply view me as a leech would a vein. I guess im wondering how cynically I should view her actions during the relationship and especially her current expressions of remorse. It would be easier right now to view her as cunning and manipulative, but is that most likely the answer or was she just conflicted.

if anyone would help with some insight that would be wonderful, but ive already gained so much from the resources. Thank you once again for helping me make sense of all this.

Gratefully,
Ben

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Mutt]

Hi benzibox,



I’d like to welcome you to bpdfamily. I’m glad that you found the articles helpful in figuring out the dynamics of your r/e, I bet that you were really confused and depressed at how things don’t seem to improve with conventional r/s skills.

I’m also happy that you decided to take that step and register with the site, there are many people like you that can offer you guidance and support.

Information on this site has really helped me understand what went on in that relationship, and that my consistent failure to help her remain stable would likely be inevitable.

Emotional stability is self management it shouldn’t be managed by others a owBOD have dependency issues and are dependent on others for things that should really be done on your own. That’s the nature of the disorder she’s not the sum of her disorder it’s a part of her and if she doesn’t take care of that part it’s not going to improve her interpersonal r/s skills.

Are you still in touch with her?

Who broke up with who?

[FindingMe2011]

I guess im wondering how cynical I should view her actions during the relationship and especially her current expressions of remorse.

Interesting... .I would hope on day, you could view her actions, from a place of indifference... .On an IQ level, you have very logical reasoning... .Having your EQ, closer to your IQ, would serve you well

It would be easier right now to view her as cunning and manipulative, but is that most likely the answer or was she just conflicted.

Taking the path of least resistance, stands true for all... .most on here view survival, as cunning and manipulative,at some point... .those that move closer to peace... .have another view

if anyone would help with some insight that would be wonderful, but ive already gained so much from the resources. Thank you once again for helping me make sense of all this.

The most helpful insight, is gained, when we make sense of ourselves... .I wish u well PEACE

[pearlsw]

Hi benzibox,

Thanks for sharing about your relationship - it helps others to talk things through. May I ask how/what precipitated you breaking up with her and how did you deliver the break up news to her? I'm asking not because of what she did afterwards, that's not on you at all, but I am wondering about how one goes about ending these kinds of relationships. It seems really hard to find the "right" time to do so. In the past I have been able to manage breakups on a good schedule and had good outcomes, but whenever I contemplate how to do one for this relationship I am at a real loss for how to imagine one. The stakes can be so high!

wishing you well, pearl.

[benzibox]

Hi benzibox,



I’d like to welcome you to bpdfamily. I’m glad that you found the articles helpful in figuring out the dynamics of your r/e, I bet that you were really confused and depressed at how things don’t seem to improve with conventional r/s skills.

I’m also happy that you decided to take that step and register with the site, there are many people like you that can offer you guidance and support.

Emotional stability is self management it shouldn’t be managed by others a owBOD have dependency issues and are dependent on others for things that should really be done on your own. That’s the nature of the disorder she’s not the sum of her disorder it’s a part of her and if she doesn’t take care of that part it’s not going to improve her interpersonal r/s skills.

Are you still in touch with her?

Who broke up with who?

Thanks for the welcome, and yeah that's very true, its just difficult in this situation because it remains undiagnosed and Im not in a position to suggest she seek treatment for it. I keep reading that its not my responsibility and that im simply acting out narcissistic tendencies, but just on a human level I want her to get better and im not sure how to aid in her proper diagnosis.

we have agreed to a 2 week separation, during which she has contacted me fairly often, but some arrangements for belongings have to be made.

I broke up with her, and unfortunately it has become quite protracted due to her strong response and a reluctance to hurt her on my part

[benzibox]

Hi benzibox,

Thanks for sharing about your relationship - it helps others to talk things through. May I ask how/what precipitated you breaking up with her and how did you deliver the break up news to her? I'm asking not because of what she did afterwards, that's not on you at all, but I am wondering about how one goes about ending these kinds of relationships. It seems really hard to find the "right" time to do so. In the past I have been able to manage breakups on a good schedule and had good outcomes, but whenever I contemplate how to do one for this relationship I am at a real loss for how to imagine one. The stakes can be so high!

wishing you well, pearl.

The constant push/pull dynamic ended up breaking me. I hate arguments and they were frequent. We'd been fighting then patched up then quickly fought again, I agreed to carry on but at that point I knew I was only there out of sympathy for. I realised late one night and just told her a slightly more palatable version of the truth, that I had no more belief that the relationship could work. Pleading and begging continued for hours until she perceived there was no more hope, then she walked out. I got in touch with her and she was at the cliffs. Tried to talk her down for ages then she just stopped responding and all I could hear was the wind. The phone went dead, and for a minute or so I thought she was. The stakes became incredibly high, and partly I think because I was not fully aware of what I was dealing with and lacked the delicate touch necessary. I've made mistakes in the relationship and in the break up, but they were punished too harshly. I don't think there is ever a right time as im sure you re aware, and im in no position to be giving advice. We're currently on a two week break of contact, im hoping the distance will help lessen the blow. My instincts tell me to be more definitive for her sake, but the emotion of her pleas wore me down.

[Aiko]

Ben I could've written your posts as my experience was identical, including the couple week splits and not wanting to hurt her.  What I learned after many of these was... .
1. They were never splits because she never gave it a break
2. I would miss her and in the beginning I didn't know about BPD, and I would get back with her
3. The frequency of her episodes increased as did me breaking it off
4. It was absolutely exhausting beyond words and it got worse and worse
5. Until the last time when I said I can't do it anymore and hurt was massive and the healing journey had to begin.

If I can offer any advice, it will likely not improve it will likely get worse and suck more of your total being.  While you're on this 'break' think hard about every going back. It is an endless cycle.

[pearlsw]

Hi benzibox,

Oh dear! I am so sorry to hear this - that must have been so scary to experience!

So, may I ask, is the two week NC just to give time to take the next steps in a breakup? Is she still trying to get you back?

take care, pearl.

[benzibox]

Aiko- thanks for the insight that likely confirms my suspicions. I had already made up my mind in normal circumstances, but the emotion of the last few days had me confused.

Pearl- it was for a few reasons, initially I struggled with grief. Although she didn't die for a time I grieved as if she was, the moment kept hitting me. I simply couldn't think. To be honest it was also just giving in to her pleas, I couldn't deal with them, I just needed to do anything for a bit of time. I can tell she still wants me back, I think in her mind this process is a way of fixing things between us. Im dreading having to tell her its over again.

[benzibox]

Findingme- thank you, but you leave me ambivalent regarding my quotients. Is the emotionally developed response to this indifference? Should I not feel wronged if she used me emotionally and financially? These are genuine questions. I suppose you might be saying that we all use one another to service our needs, her needs were just much greater and turbulent? But then can anyone be blamed for anything?

[FindingMe2011]

Is the emotionally developed response to this indifference?

most responses based off emotions,only, typically dont end well... .and when conflicts can be looked thru the lenses of indifference... .there is no conflict... .no right no wrong, just is

Should I not feel wronged if she used me emotionally and financially? These are genuine questions. I suppose you might be saying that we all use one another to service our needs, her needs were just much greater and turbulent?

You can feel whatever you like, and only YOU, truly has this power, giving it away to others, is confusing, isnt it... .At some point, you were fine with this r/s (honeymoon, mirroring, idealization ) or being used, as you put it... .You also had a use for BPD during this time... .Trauma bonds are toxic, at the very least... .You have almost zero chance of helping her, with hers... .who does this leave?

But then can anyone be blamed for anything?

Sure, but it never solves the problem, and many dont like the solution

[benzibox]

findingme- I agree that blame is pointless, I just feel like my perception of her intentions may have been wrong all along, a sense that I have been tricked. I was never really OK with the relationship, the trauma effected her hard and was plunging her into occasional psychosis, I genuinely feared for her mind at some points, I cared for her so I stayed because she said she needed me. The clinical response to that seems to be I have a saviour complex and that providing her with support fuels my ego, but then what is the response of a healthy individual? With the things I saw I had every reason to believe that she was on the brink of insanity, is it not compassionate to temporarily sacrifice the needs of yourself to help someone else? I guess it's just a facade really, a relationship built on sympathy didn't help. I think that's what I feel most remorse for. I didn't have the courage to leave her sooner because I feared what it would do to her. How I handled it may have been unhealthy in many ways, but I still believe that pulling my support away during some earlier points may have had even worse results. Is that self important?

[benzibox]

I've had very little luck in relationships and I don't know why. Im 31, I loved one girl when I was 18ish, but I can't even remember why, she was just very attractive. I was in a relationship all through uni despite knowing it wasn't right. Then very few relationships with women I generally perceived to be flawed, up to and including my ex. I guess im answering myself here. I've dated quite a lot, why does this keep repeating? Am I just incapable of forging a healthy relationship until I deal with some aspect of myself?

[benzibox]

im just rambling sorry, but its helpful to think

[benzibox]

I've come to realise that I may be a covert narcissist, im so confused, everything seems to be just strangely fitting in place. I cant tell whether im just wanting a label to explain it all but the description seems so familiar

[benzibox]

reading about its effects on relationships, and also that of borderline, completely changes how I see personal relationships. Its not simply mutual attraction, similar interests and goals etc. A lot of personalities seem to have an effectively preordained path to their relationships