Can I fix my codependency?

[Yuu]

Meili, so the first step is affirmations Okay then I will think about the affirmations throughly and reply to you later.

I read the Codependency profile and it fits me perfectly. I was quite surprised at how accurate it was.  

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Meili]

What do you think that your biggest roadblock is?

[heartandwhole]

This is a very interesting and helpful discussion.

Yuu, the first step to recovery, in my view, is awareness of the issue. You have seen this in yourself, so that is a very important step that you’ve already completed.  . Many people live years and years, struggling in relationships,  without realizing that there is something that needs changing in their own behavior. So, you are already ahead of the game.

In addition to what Meili is encouraging you to explore, I’d like to ask you a question, that will hopefully help to reframe this issue as an opportunity to learn new skills, rather than a problem to solve.

What skill(s) do you think you need to learn to have the kind of relationship you want?  Take your time and imagine yourself in that successful relationship. How do you behave? How do you interact with your partner? And so on... .

For example, for me, I’d say one thing I need to learn is to trust that I am enough and lovable, just for being me (and not because of what I do for my partner).

What about you?

heartandwhole

[Yuu]

Meili,
My biggest roadblock in what?
I still haven't figured any of the affirmations but I can give it a shot.

I must take care of me because nobody likes a hopeless person
I need to pay more attention to what people say but not too much
I am Enough, I am not a bad person
Help yourself because asking for help may put pressure on people
I am at peace with everything, You can't force someone to stay with you

heartandwhole,

I need to be more perspective.I need to be independent. I need to learn how make her feel secure and comfortable. I need to know how to make her relay her emotions to me. I need more honesty from her. I need know when I am being lied to and how to deal with it. I need her To fully trust me.

[dumpsterdog]

Yuu... .you and i are in similar frames of mind... .but , when i read your rationale for all the things YOU have to do... .it reminds me of my thinking... .what is SHE willing to do... .and if SHE isnt willing to do some work... .you and i will both just waste our lives trying to fix someone who doesnt want to be fixed... .thats my 2 cents right now.

[heartandwhole]

I need to be more perspective.I need to be independent. I need to learn how make her feel secure and comfortable. I need to know how to make her relay her emotions to me. I need more honesty from her. I need know when I am being lied to and how to deal with it. I need her To fully trust me.

Hi Yuu,

I hear you. And I think most of us here have had a very similar list of things we need at one point or another.

The thing is that you can't "make" anyone do, think, or feel what you want them to. And even if you found a way to do that, it wouldn't bring you love or happiness.

These are things you can work on, because you can learn skills that will help bring them about:

• I need to be more perspective.
• I need to be independent.
• I need know when I am being lied to and how to deal with it.

Looking at your list above, do you see that half of it focuses on what she needs to do, and not you? That is where we really get stuck, because in life, very often people just don't cooperate with what we want. They do what they want. And they have their own list of needs.

I think step two in the fixing codependence plan might be turn the focus to who and what you can control: you and your behavior.

Also, an interesting exercise: in all the places you use "she" or "her," replace all the pronouns with "I" or "me." So, for example, "I need to know how to make her relay her emotions to me" becomes "I need to know how to relay my emotions to her." Or even "I need to know how to relay my emotions to me."

This is a tough project, Yuu. I admire your willingness to take the plunge. Reading and participating in this topic is helping me, too.  

Let me know what you think.

heartandwhole

[Yuu]

Heartandwhole,

I am sorry but I disagree with you on that one. Because my actions will reflect how she feels so yeah I think I am supposed to make her feel secure and comfortable because she can't make herself feel that way.

But I hear you. But can you explain further what do you mean?
I think step two in the fixing codependence plan might be turn the focus to who and what you can control: you and your behavior

[Harley Quinn]

Meili,
My biggest roadblock in what?
I still haven't figured any of the affirmations but I can give it a shot.

I must take care of me because nobody likes a hopeless person
I need to pay more attention to what people say but not too much
I am Enough, I am not a bad person
Help yourself because asking for help may put pressure on people
I am at peace with everything, You can't force someone to stay with you

heartandwhole,

I need to be more perspective.I need to be independent. I need to learn how make her feel secure and comfortable. I need to know how to make her relay her emotions to me. I need more honesty from her. I need know when I am being lied to and how to deal with it. I need her To fully trust me.

Hi Yuu,

I've been reading your thread here since you posted it, as it's an excellent topic and one that is close to many of our hearts.  I'm sure many others are also reading and benefiting from this, so thank you for exploring this with us.  

I took a look at your affirmations and it seems like you have the idea.  What I would suggest is that we maybe re frame a couple of them to only be about yourself.  As a codependent myself I fall into the same trap.  I make everything about someone else or in service of someone else.  It is hard to focus solely on ourselves.  But in order to get to grips with our own traits, that is what we must do.  For a moment, park any thoughts about how your actions affect or influence others or their opinion of you.  (I highlighted the statements in your list where you have included these types of thoughts)

I'll give you two examples from your list above, worded slightly differently, and maybe you can repeat these and see how they make you feel?

I am enough exactly as I am.

I have what is required within myself to take care of my own needs.

Can you see the difference in how these affirmations seem more focused towards yourself as a whole person who is not dependent on other's opinions or satisfying others' needs to feel worthwhile?  

I sat with my counsellor once and said to her that "the validity of my existence comes from helping other people".  In other words, I may as well not exist unless I am doing something in service of others.  Now I feel sad that those words so naturally passed my lips.  It's a process Yuu, but we can get there - to a place where we are valid as individuals and feel a sense of self worth without it being centred on what we can do for others.  

It is interesting to me that you have included in one of your affirmations the words "I am not a bad person".  Who says or thinks that you are a bad person?  Are these your thoughts or those of someone else?  Again, this statement might be concerned with what others think.  I'd encourage you to focus on what YOU think about yourself.

Can you tell me some of the self defeating thoughts that you have, which drive you to behave in the ways you have identified as codependent?

Love and light x

[heartandwhole]

Heartandwhole,

I am sorry but I disagree with you on that one. Because my actions will reflect how she feels so yeah I think I am supposed to make her feel secure and comfortable because she can't make herself feel that way.

Hi Yuu,

I hear you. And do you see that I can't "make" you agree with me if you don't?   Even if I were to make a good point, you will think and believe what you think and believe.

You can be the "perfect" partner, do everything in your power to help your partner feel secure and comfortable, and she will feel what she feels. Of course you want to support her, care for her, help her in any way you can. That is a caring thing to do. We are all here because that's what we do.

But to make real progress, your partner needs to learn to manage her feelings of discomfort and insecurity. You can't do that for her. And even if you did, what would happen if you for some reason couldn't help her anymore? Making her dependent on you is not a good basis for a thriving relationship. And she may resent you for it in the long run.

But I hear you. But can you explain further what do you mean?
I think step two in the fixing codependence plan might be turn the focus to who and what you can control: you and your behavior

I mean that no matter how loving and caring and supportive we are toward our loved ones, they may or may not be able to feel it or feel secure in it. That's human nature. Every person has their own unique ways of perceiving the world.

It's clear how much you want to support your partner, Yuu, and I think that shows a very caring nature. A pwBPD (and anyone, really) can really thrive with someone who is solid, caring, consistently supportive.

Just make sure that you are also just as supportive of yourself and your needs. Try to see yourself and your partner as distinct people, with individual needs and wants. Then you can communicate with each other and learn how to best fulfill the needs that you have, according to your values and preferences.

To me, focusing on yourself means learning who you are separate from your partner or loved ones. What are your needs? What do you want for yourself and your life? Because they can get so easily lost when we are entwined in a co-dependent type of relationship.

What do you think?

heartandwhole

[Yuu]

Harley quinn,

I understand what you are saying. But I want to fix my codependency to help me in the relationship not for myself.

I think that a bit. And my sometimes I felt my SO thought that.

I don't really get what self defeating thoughts mean but I didn't really look that much into how I acted like that or why. I just read the Codependency and it was as if someone looked through me.

Heartandwhole,

I guess I knew you were right all along. But it is just so sad being so helpless and as You know BPD are very weak so I don't know if she can overcome her insecurities... and that means the relationship is lost... .

Yeah you are right they were lost and I didn't even think about them but yeah even now I don't even want to think about me and my life... I am just gonna let it flow. There is nothing I can do anyway

[heartandwhole]

But it is just so sad being so helpless

I hear you. I've been there, too—feeling helpless—and it is sad.  

and as You know BPD are very weak so I don't know if she can overcome her insecurities... and that means the relationship is lost... .

Well some people have endured enormous difficulties in life, and they may appear weak in some ways, but then again, how much strength does it take to get through what some have been through, you know?

You don't know if she can overcome her insecurities, but she may be stronger than you think. I know that even when things look like they are totally lost, they can turn around for the better. I've seen it right here on these boards. But it takes effort, time, and patience.

And you know what? As you work on changing your behavior around codependency, you become a model of what is possible for her. Through this work you are doing for yourself, she can see that change is possible. So, you are doing this for you, but it can be very helpful for your partner and everyone else around you, too.

I would focus on very small steps you can take, moment by moment, Yuu, so as not to feel overwhelmed or discouraged.

One of your goals is to become more independent. What is one thing you can do (even a small step) to start that process. What would that look like in your life and your relationships?

Those are just my thoughts. There is a ton of wisdom on these boards. What do others think?

heartandwhole

[Yuu]

Heartandwhole,

I don't know what I really have to do to become more independent but I think something like taking care of my own stuff and responsibilities.

[Harley Quinn]

That sounds like a good step Yuu.  What specifically can you start with?

I'm wondering what you thought of the two affirmations I suggested earlier in the thread. 

I am enough exactly as I am.

I have what is required within myself to take care of my own needs.

How did you feel when you read them?

Love and light x

[Notwendy]

Hi Yuu- It is possible to work on fixing co-dependency but it can help to have some support. I don't know what resources are in your country/language or what books are available to you. You do not have to reveal your location, but what resources are available to you as far as counseling, support groups in your area?

It may be hard to get US books in another country, but are there co-dependency books in your language that you can get to?

Co-dependency has a lot of aspects to it. At the moment, you are going through a break up. That hurts- everyone- not just people who are codependent. You may also feel some depression feelings. This is normal. What resources do you have to help you deal with that- counseling, support groups, clergy? ( whatever religion you practice?). Sometimes it helps to deal with something that is taking a lot of your attention- like the break up, and then work on other character traits you may wish to change. The saying "time heals" may not feel real to you- but it does and so take heart that this will get better in time. You can heal your feelings from this.

A goal of dealing with co-dependency is to be OK on your own. You can do that. That doesn't mean not ever having a relationship but when you do, you can be in one where you feel more secure. At the moment, it may not feel so good being single, but it is a chance to work on this. It may take doing something you are not used to doing- but reaching out to one person- one friend- to go have coffee, or see a movie, or anything to form new bonds.

[Yuu]

Harley quinn,

I really have to take care of my studies I have neglected them for so long focusing on the relationship. And this is the most important year of my life.

I really like the second one. It gives me a feeling of independence. I don't know about the first one though.

Hey Notwendy,

The only thing I can get is a therapist. Some other members told me to go to one. And I am thinking about it. No books or support groups sadly. But I don't feel like meeting anyone and my Bestfriend is related to her so I don't really want to meet people.

Thank you for support

[Notwendy]

Yuu,

I can understand the not wanting to meet people. However, seeing a therapist is a very different situation than meeting a friend. They are professionally trained to help you- and even to help you with your feelings of not wanting to meet people.

Wanting to isolate ourselves is a common feeling but it is better for us to see a therapist during difficult times than to isolate ourselves. To answer the question on your thread- a therapist can be very helpful in working on co-dependency traits but everyone, even people with co-dependency, can feel sadness during stressful times- and taking care of that is an important step.

To give you an example- I also wanted to do some work on co-dependency but at the time, my father had just passed away. I needed to work on that first as I was feeling very sad. A therapist helped me with that and then, when I was feeling better, helped me with co-dependency traits. I also didn't want to meet people when I was feeling sad. It makes sense, but seeing a therapist was good for me. Sometimes we make those decisions- you know- to eat vegetables when you would rather eat sweets- but you know the vegetables are good for you.

Think about it Yuu. Could seeing a therapist be good for you, even if you don't feel like meeting people?

[Harley Quinn]

I really have to take care of my studies I have neglected them for so long focusing on the relationship. And this is the most important year of my life.

I really like the second one. It gives me a feeling of independence. I don't know about the first one though.

This is good to hear.  You are making a conscious choice to focus on your studies, which are very important to you.  Perhaps you can make a commitment to yourself that you will not be deterred from that, no matter what? 

I'm so glad that you find I have what is required within myself to take care of my own needs gives you a feeling of independence.  You could write this out and stick it somewhere that you will see it every day.  Such as on your bathroom mirror, or where you do your study.  Repeat it often. 

How does the other one make you feel?  Uncomfortable?  Is it that you struggle to believe it?  I'm curious to know if you could word it better so that it feels more acceptable to you.  What would feel better to say?

I'm in agreement with Notwendy, that therapy is very helpful.  When we go through tough situations, the support we get can make a great difference in how we cope.  I'd encourage you to give it some thought.  It would be a gift to yourself to be able to speak openly and without judgement, in a private and confidential setting.  I have found a huge weight lifts from my shoulders when I see my counsellor, even if I don't feel like going to begin with.

Love and light x 

[Gemsforeyes]

Dearest Yuu-
I am so sorry for the pain and sadness you are feeling.  And I'm sorry to be late into this discussion, which i really need to read again, because I too, am very codependent.  And I am only seeing how deeply this is hurting me now; and I am not young.  But I do believe that I can make some changes for the better in my life.  And so can you.  You are so much stronger than you know.  Your friends here have given beautiful ideas to help you.  Please open your heart and receive what they are trying to give you.

I lost my closest and dearest friend this past week.  She died unexpectedly.  She was young.  My BPD boyfriend apparently decided that 2 days was enough time for me to be sad, 2 days for my heart sister.  I have tried so hard to always  wear my "tool belt" with my BPD BF.  But you see, my tool belt fell off due to my sadness and my BPD BF went into full rage.  I didn't have the strength to carry my "tool belt".  I couldn't "save" us this week.  So it all collapsed and shattered.

So here's what I want to offer, Yuu... .there will be tears.  It's okay to cry them.  I have often wondered if we are given a limited number of tears to cry during our lives.  We aren't.  So I will let my tears clean my soul.  I will offer myself 5 minutes in the morning, and 5 minutes in the evening to cry my tears.  I will grieve for my dear friend.  And maybe in time, I will grieve for my BPD BF.  And I will grieve for myself.  I am allowed to just be sad.  And so are you.  And in time, the tears will stop coming.

I knew how to breathe BEFORE I met my BPD BF.  And I knew how to breathe before I met my beautiful friend.  So now, I will open my "window" a little bit wider, and let more air in... .just so I can breathe more deeply.  He is NOT my oxygen.  Just like Your BPD GF is not your oxygen.  We must apply logic to our emotions.

My BPD BF chose me (over and over again) because there was something in ME that met a deep need in him.  Because I forgave all of the bad things he did.  Always.  And in reality, in the light of day, he did not really bring light or happiness or joy or true love into my world.  And it's time for me to be honest with myself.  I have to stop convincing myself that he is good for me.  He isn't good for me.  No matter what I do, no matter how many tools I learn, I will never be able to make him stop lying.  I will not be able to teach him to be an adult.  I will never be able to trust him with my heart.  I have to trust myself. 

If I look at my world as my home, it has many rooms.  My BPD BF entered my "home" and it seemed to grow smaller.  I see this when I am very honest with myself.  He took up "rooms" in my world, in my "home".  He did not want me to leave those rooms.  And he did not want anyone else to enter those rooms while we were there.  We were alone.  Now, for the hours in the day when I must do things, I can freely leave those rooms and close the doors behind me.  And when "I'm" ready, I will go back in there and think of him, or look at our photos.  On my terms.  And one day, he will no longer take up space in my world.

I may be wrong, Yuu, but I believe I landed in this place due to early traumas that were never healed.  I HAD to please others so that I could feel "good enough".  To make others feel worthy and loved because I never did.  That is a hole in my heart, which I will seal.  I know I have friends who fully trust, love and rely on me, so I know I can rely on myself.   Nothing is in my BPD BF's hands.

I just don't want to feel like this anymore.  And the power to make that positive decision is mine.  So I will make it.  And so will you. 

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes

[Yuu]

Hey guys, thank You for Your support.
Thank you for sharing Gemsforeyes,

The thing is that I am trying to reverse the breakup on another thread. I am not sure if I want to try and get over it. If your read my other thread you will understand.

Yes, I want to commit to my studies.
I don't know  about seeing a therapist though, I mean what can he help me with.

Harley Quinn, it is just that I don't feel it at all, or I am kind of sure I am not enough.

Gemsforeyes,
I am so sorry for your loss. I thank you for sharing your experience. I hope you can cope and move on with your life.

[Gemsforeyes]

Dear Yuu-

Please allow me to apologize for my earlier post.  I got completely lost in my own world and did not say anything that I actually wanted to say to you.  I am very sorry, I normally do not post replies like that.

Please allow me to try again... .I'll just give a few examples because this could take forever.

I believe we can make positive changes to our codependent behaviors that can help us whether we stay in our relationships with our BPD partners or not.  These behaviors, at least in me, are present in most of my relationships.  I just didn't recognize this until recently.  

There is no "quick fix" for these behaviors, but I believe if we can get a handle on some of these, it sure will make life more enjoyable.  For me this means applying logic to my emotions.  I have really started to realize the consequences of MY reactions to his needs.  And in turn, how the consequences had begun to trigger emotions in me!   My goal, before it's too late, is to relax again... .the world will not stop spinning if I don't complete everything that's on my daily list.  And each day, I try to do one little thing that I enjoy, even if it's only listening to one song I love.  

Unfortunately,  affirmations don't generally work for me.  There's just too much "noise" in my head.

First, I believe we need to recognize that we're human beings and we're allowed to make mistakes.  It's okay to not be perfect all the time.

I knew how to breathe and take in oxygen BEFORE I met my BPD BF.  When he rages at me or leaves me or I ask him to leave me, I may feel that I cannot breathe... .like there is heaviness in my chest.  But I now know this is stress and anxiety.  He does not supply my oxygen.  To calm myself, I move into fresh air or open a window wider and take deep breaths.  And I tell myself... ."just breathe... .". I used to tell this to the at-risk kids I coached in rowing.

I no longer need to drop EVERYTHING and stop an art project or hang up a call at the exact moment my BPD BF calls screaming thinking he has an "emergency" and rush out to rescue him from his latest "crisis".  When I react like this, it makes me miss my work deadlines and his emergencies are NOT emergencies.  My immediate reaction tells him to keep doing this to me.  He will continue to believe that NOTHING I need to do has any importance.  I must allow myself to quietly ask him if he is safe and for an explanation of what is happening.  And I am allowed to tell him that I am in the middle of work, I cannot leave now, and I will be happy to help him when my work is done.  If he has a medical emergency then yes, I will rush out.

I work from my home.  I need money to pay my bills because I support myself (and pay for too many of his needs at the moment).  He wants to come in here and turn on the television and talk to me when I am trying to work.  For far too long I lost my voice because he would begin screaming if I told him I needed to work and I needed the house to be quiet.   If I allow him to be here in the middle of my workday, I end up having to work in the middle of the night after he goes to sleep.  He has other places to go, including his own home.  After Years of this, I am finally saying "please come back at 8:00 tonight when we can spend time together ".  If he gets angry, that is HIS problem.  I am responsible for my schedule and my work.  He is responsible for his reactions to my need for quiet.  

We have to take responsibility for only what is ours, NOT theirs.  He and I are two separate people.  Here's my kicker... .I may find that his way of "loving" may not be enough for me.

I am finally placing some value on things I need to accomplish.  I'm not sure where we stand at the moment, but that's not important right now.  IF we are together, then he needs to rise up a bit, be my partner, my lover and my friend.  I will be the same to him.  But I don't want to be his servant or under his control.  I don't want to be told what to do or how to feel.  I have become more comfortable overall in explaining that my feelings are mine, his are his, and it's not fair to tell one another HOW to feel.  I am also trying to teach him the meaning of empathy.

I will no longer cancel my dinner plans with close friends because he decides at the very last minute he doesn't want to go.  But I still have to provide an excuse (sinus headache) about why he's not there.  And generally speaking, I call him on his lies... .so those have become minimal.

Yuu, what we're doing here is acknowledging that we have issues we want to address and actively work on.  And until our partners do the same, there is little we can do to help them.  We know we cannot "fix" them.  And that feeling of helplessness is deeply painful.  But I for one am extremely hopeful that I can change and heal myself.

I want to thank you for opening this topic.

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes

[Harley Quinn]

Yes, I want to commit to my studies.
I don't know  about seeing a therapist though, I mean what can he help me with.

Harley Quinn, it is just that I don't feel it at all, or I am kind of sure I am not enough.

Hi Yuu,

How are you doing with committing to your studies lately?  Have you been able to stick with this and prioritise this important part of your life for yourself?

It's hard feeling like you're not good enough.  Do you know why it is that you feel that way? 

Love and light x