I’ve been butting heads with my wife

[molarman]

Have been butting heads with my wife.  Mutual therapist has said she has BPD so I am looking for information and guidance.  This is my first post.  Sometimes I wonder if I don't also fit some of this so maybe it is both of us

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[heartandwhole]

Hi molarman,

Welcome to the community! I’m glad you reached out. You’ll find members here who really understand the challenges of relationships with someone with BPD.

What usually triggers the conflict between you? What behaviors are the most challenging at the moment?

Keep writing. It helps to share. We’re here for you.

heartandwhole

[molarman]

Just seems like everything.  Can't even have a normal conversation.  She just seems to explode at everything I say.  She asked what was bothering me.  I tried to tell her and she blew up.   I have to keep everything in for fear of the reaction.  I just can't do it all by myself.  She has similar reactions to out youngest son.  It is really hurting him.  He thinks his mom hates him.

[molarman]

I can't blame her for everything though.  As I read more I recognize some of these traits in myself.  Maybe it is both of us

[GaGrl]

I can't blame her for everything though.  As I read more I recognize some of these traits in myself.  Maybe it is both of us

Do you see these traits in yourself in response to her behaviors, or are you initiating some of the behaviors (such as unexpectedly blowing up at your wife)?

[molarman]

Last night I sat next to her and tried to talk about a concern.  She stood up, walked halfway across the room and started screaming at me.  I responded in kind which I know was wrong.  She said she "knew" I was going to do that as she could tell I was thinking about something all day.  I tried to talk to her calmly but I think she had already decided it was going to be a conflict before we even started talking.  She screams at me and then walks away or tells me I am wrong or sticks her fingers in her ears and pretends I am not here.  Then she walks away like I am not allowed to have an opinion.  She does the same thing to my 15 year old son.  He keeps asking me why she hates him. 

She screamed at him to the point that he was laying on the floor crying his eyes out.  It took me an hour to calm him down.  She came up and started analyzing him and telling him he was overreacting.  The poor kid was losing his mind

[heartandwhole]

molarman,

That is so difficult and my heart goes out to the children. Very tough to have so much conflict and stress in the home. You are certainly not alone. I think many of us can relate.

Usually, someone has to step up and change his/her behavior to stop the cycle. It's not easy to break patterns of behavior, and to listen when someone is expressing hostility. We have a short video about it here:

Ending Conflict

If you have time to view it and read the article, I'd love to get your take. I find that if I'm really hurting or very stressed, my communication skills can go out the window. But it does get better.

heartandwhole

[molarman]

Watched it... .WOW... .so much is true.
I need to work on my reactions.  I just hate being attacked.  Before I know what is happening I am elevated and responding.  I certainly get it doesn't help.  I just don't see anything ever changing.  She just wants to yell and then expects me to just walk away.  She treats me like a child.  Sit down I want to talk to you  She says, or yells, her peace and I am just supposed to take it, not respond.  So difficult.  Makes me feel like I am the only one trying.  I just need a little something to hold on to

[once removed]

hi molarman, and

this is tough. to put it mildly, it doesnt sound like your wife is very cooperative when it comes to trying to discuss any kind of conflict.

are you or your son seeing a therapist or getting any sort of help?

it sounds like both of you could use a lot of support and guidance. in that regard, i am glad you found us.

[molarman]

We both are.  He has his own therapist and it seems to help.  We both need it.
Just feel like I have a roommate not a spouse.

[once removed]

how is it going today molarman?

have a look at the tools here: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=56206.msg913191#msg913191

what do you think? do you see any that might be a good fit for you to start practicing?

[johndude49]

Hi Molarman,


I have been married to my undiagnosed BPD wife (I know there's an acronym for this but I have forgotten it, I don't get on this sight much but when I do it's always helpful) for 27 years and can totally relate to the things you are experiencing. I have read some of the responses to your posts and I have to say that the resources on this website are aweseome.  I've read a lot of material about how to live in relationship with and married to someone with BPD.  Beyond that I have read the book Stop Walking on Eggshells probabaly 10 times.  I go to it whenever my wife and I get into another bad cycle and it helps calm me down, remind me of what I'm up against and what I need to do about it.

You can't stop every conflict or control every argument but if you apply the principles they talk about here your life will be much more manageable and your marriage may even enter into some fruitful stages of friendship and intimacy.  Without a doubt it will be a long hard struggle but in many cases (especially when you're married and have kids) it's well worth it to stick it out for all of those involved.  Of course in other cases it doesn't work out and you have to figure that out for yourself.

My heart goes out to you though. Yes, I have had a lot of pain over the years but I think for me it was especially hard to watch the effect on my children.  Many times I had to step in and simply confront my wife in front of them that she could not treat them that way.  This is risky because it will likely trigger more anger on her side.  Let the principles of the resources here and in that book guide you because even in "stepping in" like that you'll learn it's best to do it as calmly as you can so as to not trigger more conflict. 

It will take time and practice and you'll blow it many times but keep at it and you may find your relationship much more meaningful and tolerable.

The sad thing for me is that she refuses to see a therapist but to blame everyone else in her life for her pain and sadness.  This is also hard to watch because i love her and would love to see her get treatment.  By all means if your wife is open to treatment, do all you can to get her there but you must do this very gently and not in a way that sounds like you're trying to "fix" her.  But if she's open try to find a therapist that is skilled at using the technique called Dialetical Behavioral Therapy.  Be aware that some other methods or even drugs will not help but may even exacerbate her symptoms.

I wish you the best and feel free to reach out to me again if you want or feel the need to.  I know for me it always helped having someone I could talk to who "understood" what I was going through (because most don't have a clue or just say there's 5 steps to make your marriage better that worked for them but it won't work for you).  Lastly, as someone already mentioned, do whatever you need to do to take care of yourself.  You can't fight this alone.  A therapist is great but having other friends to lean on and activities that restore your soul, mind, body, etc. are essential to getting through this. 

I wish I had time to share more but I have to go.  Take Care.

[Jessica84]

maybe it is both of us

I noticed you said this twice. Do you think you have BPD?

The reason I ask is once I learned about the disorder, I thought the same thing. I saw myself as having all those traits and convinced myself I was the one with the mental problems! Had I blamed him all this time when I was the crazy one? But after years of being blamed/accused/yelled at, I questioned my own judgment and sanity. I didn't know what was happening.

Then I recalled that before meeting him, I wasn't anything like that. I think I started to mirror him. I slowly took on his traits as I lost myself in the chaos.  Could this be the case with you? How do you interact with other people? Do you feel the same intense emotions/reactivity as you do with your wife?

It is important that you not diagnose yourself unnecessarily, or incorrectly. It looks to me that you are the emotional adult here, as you are the one trying to understand. You are the one walking on eggshells. You are the one who overcomes your own emotions so you can comfort your son. This is not typical of people with BPD.

Go easy on yourself. You likely contributed to the conflict (we all have), but that doesn't mean you are disordered yourself. It means you were doing the best you could without knowing all the facts. Now a new door has happened - you can start to make sense of things, get perspective. You can learn how to communicate in ways that help minimize conflicts. Most importantly, you can regain your "self" and repair some of the damage these relationships can cause. I hope that helps. 

[molarman]

I noticed you said this twice. Do you think you have BPD?

The reason I ask is once I learned about the disorder, I thought the same thing. I saw myself as having all those traits and convinced myself I was the one with the mental problems! Had I blamed him all this time when I was the crazy one? But after years of being blamed/accused/yelled at, I questioned my own judgment and sanity. I didn't know what was happening.

Then I recalled that before meeting him, I wasn't anything like that. I think I started to mirror him. I slowly took on his traits as I lost myself in the chaos.  Could this be the case with you? How do you interact with other people? Do you feel the same intense emotions/reactivity as you do with your wife?

It is important that you not diagnose yourself unnecessarily, or incorrectly. It looks to me that you are the emotional adult here, as you are the one trying to understand. You are the one walking on eggshells. You are the one who overcomes your own emotions so you can comfort your son. This is not typical of people with BPD.

Go easy on yourself. You likely contributed to the conflict (we all have), but that doesn't mean you are disordered yourself. It means you were doing the best you could without knowing all the facts. Now a new door has happened - you can start to make sense of things, get perspective. You can learn how to communicate in ways that help minimize conflicts. Most importantly, you can regain your "self" and repair some of the damage these relationships can cause. I hope that helps. 

[molarman]

Thanks for the input
I am certainly not going to say that I am free from BPD traits.  But as you said I don't know how many I have had and how many I have learned.  I am so used to getting yelled at that I rarely say anything.  The confusing thing is that I get blamed for everything.  I keep getting told that it is all my fault.  I said the wrong thing last week and I got screamed at for 10 minutes.  I just never know what is going to set her off.  The reason I get so confused is that she just keeps saying it is me.  Last night at marriage counseling she told the therapist that she doesn't want to talk for fear of "getting me going".   But that is exactly how I feel.  I am so lost that I don't know what is real anymore.  Friends keep saying that I seem to have lost all my joy.  When people ask if I am happy I just say I don't know.  When they ask what would make me happy I just say I have no idea.  I don't think I even know how to be happy anymore.  She quit her therapist for the 4th time.  She just refuses to admit any contributions to the current situation and refuses to consider that she has helped get us where we are.  Is this reality?  Now what the heck do I do.  I don't want to leave and I can't leave my 15 year old.  Therapist keeps telling me to run.  I really want things to work out but I can't do it alone and she just blames me for everything

[molarman]

Thank you so much for the input.  It is always good to know you are "not the only one".  I just get so confused and I am so used to getting blamed for everything.  I have been recommended the book and I actually have it.  To be honest I am worried.  If I bring it into the house I know I will get blamed for something.  Like I am trying to diagnose her and blame her.  Does that sound as pathetic as I think, that I am afraid to read a book?  Anyway,   she was with a personal therapist but she quit... .again.  She was the 5th therapist.  We work with a marriage person but as usual, I just get blamed.  It is like a mirror.  All that I see in her, she reflects onto me and tells him that I do.  This is where I get confused.  What is me?  What is her?   What is just us?  When is enough enough.  I amrambling... .apologies

[once removed]

Therapist keeps telling me to run. 

im not much for judging the advice of a qualified and experienced therapist. i do know though, that this can be shaming, it can cause someone to dig in their heels, and it is not a tool for improving your life or your circumstances.

you are really worn down, and it gets increasingly difficult to take healthy steps, take care of yourself, or as you describe, know which way is up or down. have you considered seeing another therapist?

[molarman]

I see a therapist as does my son.  She had her own but she quit for the 5th time.
We see a marraige person but I just see her portraying everything to me.  We had "homework" this week but as usual she didn't do it.  Sure seems like I am the only one trying.  Everything is me, not even us.  So frustrated

[once removed]

I see a therapist as does my son. 

i understand. what im wondering, is if it is helping. is there more to the therapy than "run, exit the relationship". 

[isilme]

It's very normal to be frustrated. 

I recommend starting very small - read over the tools links and see if any one of them can work for you - the first one I usually recommend is to try to simply not take part in conversations that go no where and leave the room/house (take your child if you can) if you can't get out of the conversation.  This is a boundary about not accepting being yelled at.  It is not initially intended to make HER change (it may, though), but to prevent you from being in her path when she goes off.  Ever see Karate Kid part II?  It's like Mr. Miagi says, the best way to deal with a punch is not be there when it comes.  This is going to be hard - you want to correct her, make her see your point of view, she can't.  Not now, not while dysregulating.  It just wastes your time and energy once a rage has started.

BPD is about unhealthy emotional responses and a lack of ability to manage even "simple" emotions.  Everything is a cut with lemon juice being dumped into it, and feelings = facts.  It's a terrible place to be. 

It has helped me greatly to look at my uBPDh as emotionally disabled.  It helps take a little bit of the ting out of a lot of what he says these days, but it took a long time to get to this point.  I had to readjust my own perceptions, and see that just like I'd not take as much offense from a child yelling "I hate you" or a drunk person yelling but not making sense, I can't take all that much from a person who can't handle their own anger and who feels the only way to get it out is to yell at others. 

See if any of the tools might work for you - try them, slowly, and see if you can decrease YOUR reactions to the drama, forcing her to adjust HERS. 

[molarman]

I keep trying to remember how I was before.  Friends say I am different.  I have even had one or two say they just can't deal anymore.  They have told me to leave but I am just not to that point yet.  Then they say they have tried to help but can't watch me do this anymore.  I am just lost.
We try therapy.  She never does her "homework"  Last night it was "my dog ate it"   This is typical.  Just seems like she has "checked out"  I had a medical test yesterday.  I asked her to just reread the instructions for preop just to be sure I didn't miss anything.  She started screaming at me.  Seems all I get is anger and resentment.  At least she has started being better with the son15.  Therapist says it won't last.  I don't know what to believe.  Certainly can't leave the son there.  I do try to take care of myself but is hard alone

[molarman]

I have so much trouble not reacting.  I just don't seem to be that fast.  She yells and I react.  then I sit there saying "why are you yelling at me"   The other issue is that we just can't talk about anything so nothing ever changes and it is driving me bananas.  I just can't tell if she cares at all or not.  How do people deal with that?   She told the therapist I am at least below the kids "because I didn't come out of her womb"   I get that but it also means she encourages the kids to stay dependent rather then to fly.  Her oldest, my step, is 30 years old.  He has a high school education, lives with us, and I pay all his bills.  I get screamed at when I even suggest he moves out.  She is not helping them by building this dependence.   How do I help them?   She just says I resent them.  I am trying to help them grow!

[Speck]

molarman,

Hey, friend. You're definitely having the toughest time. I am sorry for that.

Reading through your thread, it seems that you have some good insight into your own behavior which may be triggering your wife. At this point in time, maybe the best thing that you can do right now is to just focus on yourself - step back from the fray a bit - to give yourself the gift of clarity and peace of mind.

Have you worked on setting healthy boundaries with your wife? We do this to protect our values. Do you know what your values are? If nothing readily comes to mind, that's okay. Sometimes we "fixers" struggle with this. Even so, do you think that you could work on coming up with a list of your values that you need to hold near and dear? I think the key to increased happiness for you is in participating in this exercise. What do you think?

Step by step, we heal.


-Speck

[NGU]

Hey Molarman.

I wrote a post for you, but it ended up long.

Want to make sure you're good with a hefty amount of words.

Thanks,

-ngu

[molarman]

Speck.   Thanks for the insight.  As I said I am totally lost.  I don't even know who I am anymore.  My values seem blurry.   Family, honesty, courage, friends.

NGU.    Where can I find this post