I hoped after all the drama, dating normal women would be a breath of fresh air

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

I had a relationship with a BPD woman that lasted four years and ended a little over three years ago. I spent a long time in mourning. I spent a lot of time on this site, which was invaluable to my healing process. I started dating again after about a year, and had my first serious relationship since the breakup another year after that.

I have some idea as to what she's up to these days. Like many people who suffer from BPD, she's completely reinvented herself and no longer has anything in common with the girl I fell in love with. So I don't want her back, nor do I want to see her or speak with her ever again. But I still miss the way she used to make me feel, as well as the dynamic of our relationship. I miss the old days. It's a very complicated thing, missing something that ended up being fake - or at the very least, a huge exaggeration. After I found out about mirroring and being a 'favorite person' and splitting, it hurt a lot. It still hurts, because now when I remember the times we shared together, it's incredibly bittersweet. I remember how happy I felt. And then I remember how false it all was.

Since then I've had several relationships, ranging from two-dates-and-done to my most recent which lasted eight months. I enjoy being in these relationships, but I can't help missing that passion and excitement from my relationship with my BPD ex. The women I've been meeting don't seem to get all caught up with me, like my ex did. I know that's technically a bad thing, but it felt good. And I know that it's supposed to be healthy for your partner to have a separate life from yours, but it feels bad. It doesn't feel like they care enough about me. They don't seem curious about me like my ex did. They don't remember things I've told them. They don't talk about their feelings with me. They take a completely passive approach to communication - I must initiate almost everything. Conversations, sex, plans for dates. I know I'm 'wrong' and these women probably really like me, but deep down, I just feel like they're all kind of disinterested. And I grow disinterested too. There goes the relationship.

I try not to do this, but sometimes when I'm feeling like the girl I'm dating hasn't shown me much attention or affection lately, I just straight up ask them if they're happy with the relationship and what they like about me. They always say yes, and that they like me because I'm smart and funny and sexy and so forth. When my ex said those things to me I felt so flattered and lucky and valued. Now those words just bounce off me. I don't really know why. Maybe I've grown distrustful. Or maybe I no longer believe I'm any of those things, after my ex painted me black and basically told me (and anyone who would listen) that she secretly spent the entire relationship thinking that I was dumb and awkward and ugly. The exact opposite of what she had been saying the entire time.

Even though my ex is gone from my life, I still feel haunted by her ghost. I had been hoping that after all that drama and unrealistic idealization, dating 'normal' women would be this amazing breath of fresh air. But it hasn't turned out that way. Instead I find myself bored with normal relationships, but also doing all I can to avoid another BPD relationship. I feel like the entire concept of a relationship might not be for me anymore. It's a very lonely thought.

Thanks for clicking through. I know we try to keep it positive here, but I keep reading posts from people who went through horrible BPD breakups and then went on to meet the love of their life a year later. I'm happy for them, but I'd like to know that I'm not alone, and that there are people like me who are still kind of off-balance after their BPD ex left them. Wondering if the very concept of a relationship has been ruined for them.

[Fox Mulder]

I had a relationship with a BPD woman that lasted four years and ended a little over three years ago. I spent a long time in mourning. I spent a lot of time on this site, which was invaluable to my healing process. I started dating again after about a year, and had my first serious relationship since the breakup another year after that.

I have some idea as to what she's up to these days. Like many people who suffer from BPD, she's completely reinvented herself and no longer has anything in common with the girl I fell in love with. So I don't want her back, nor do I want to see her or speak with her ever again. But I still miss the way she used to make me feel, as well as the dynamic of our relationship. I miss the old days. It's a very complicated thing, missing something that ended up being fake - or at the very least, a huge exaggeration. After I found out about mirroring and being a 'favorite person' and splitting, it hurt a lot. It still hurts, because now when I remember the times we shared together, it's incredibly bittersweet. I remember how happy I felt. And then I remember how false it all was.

Since then I've had several relationships, ranging from two-dates-and-done to my most recent which lasted eight months. I enjoy being in these relationships, but I can't help missing that passion and excitement from my relationship with my BPD ex. The women I've been meeting don't seem to get all caught up with me, like my ex did. I know that's technically a bad thing, but it felt good. And I know that it's supposed to be healthy for your partner to have a separate life from yours, but it feels bad. It doesn't feel like they care enough about me. They don't seem curious about me like my ex did. They don't remember things I've told them. They don't talk about their feelings with me. They take a completely passive approach to communication - I must initiate almost everything. Conversations, sex, plans for dates. I know I'm 'wrong' and these women probably really like me, but deep down, I just feel like they're all kind of disinterested. And I grow disinterested too. There goes the relationship.

I try not to do this, but sometimes when I'm feeling like the girl I'm dating hasn't shown me much attention or affection lately, I just straight up ask them if they're happy with the relationship and what they like about me. They always say yes, and that they like me because I'm smart and funny and sexy and so forth. When my ex said those things to me I felt so flattered and lucky and valued. Now those words just bounce off me. I don't really know why. Maybe I've grown distrustful. Or maybe I no longer believe I'm any of those things, after my ex painted me black and basically told me (and anyone who would listen) that she secretly spent the entire relationship thinking that I was dumb and awkward and ugly. The exact opposite of what she had been saying the entire time.

Even though my ex is gone from my life, I still feel haunted by her ghost. I had been hoping that after all that drama and unrealistic idealization, dating 'normal' women would be this amazing breath of fresh air. But it hasn't turned out that way. Instead I find myself bored with normal relationships, but also doing all I can to avoid another BPD relationship. I feel like the entire concept of a relationship might not be for me anymore. It's a very lonely thought.

Thanks for clicking through. I know we try to keep it positive here, but I keep reading posts from people who went through horrible BPD breakups and then went on to meet the love of their life a year later. I'm happy for them, but I'd like to know that I'm not alone, and that there are people like me who are still kind of off-balance after their BPD ex left them. Wondering if the very concept of a relationship has been ruined for them.

[BeagleGirl]

It's a very complicated thing, missing something that ended up being fake - or at the very least, a huge exaggeration.

[They say that] they like me because I'm smart and funny and sexy and so forth. When my ex said those things to me I felt so flattered and lucky and valued. Now those words just bounce off me. I don't really know why. Maybe I've grown distrustful. Or maybe I no longer believe I'm any of those things, after my ex painted me black and basically told me (and anyone who would listen) that she secretly spent the entire relationship thinking that I was dumb and awkward and ugly. The exact opposite of what she had been saying the entire time.

Quick answer to your subject line question - Yes, but... . 
I know that I've been negatively changed by my BPD relationship, but I'm also realizing that I entered into that relationship already damaged.  And, as an eternal optimist, I don't think being permanently "damaged"/changed means I'll never have the kind of relationship I want.  I just need to find another person who, like me, can see beauty in the healed scars and repaired cracks.

So now for my thoughts on your post... .I'm wondering if you see a link between the two portions of your post that I quoted above.  I do, but I may be reading meaning into them based on where I am in my own learning process. 

It sounds to me like you are looking back on the relationship and saying "She wasn't who I thought she was.  The relationship wasn't what I thought it was... .I must not be who I thought I was".  I think that last conclusion can feel natural and logical, but at best it's a logical leap and at worst it's a fallacy. 

My therapist has challenged me to not consider dating until I firmly know my worth without anyone needing me to tell me what it is.  I've been pondering that for a while now, which is probably why the sections I quoted resonated with me.  When I read them, it seems to me that your pwBPD spent reflected back to you an image of yourself that made you feel amazing.  Now that the magical mirror has been taken away/shattered, you desperately miss that feeling of being that amazing person.  Worse, you are now left wondering if there was any truth in that person or if it was only her "illness" that made you seem so amazing to her (and thus to yourself).  So now, you are looking for a new "mirror" that will make you feel the way you felt with your pwBPD and simultaneously doubting that the person you thought you were with her doesn't even exist.

On the off chance that you are a Harry Potter fan - I'm going to say this quandary reminds me of the mirror of Erised.  Looking to any relationship, BPD or non, to define our value is like that mirror:

"The happiest man on earth would be able to use the Mirror of Erised like a normal mirror, that is, he would look into it and see himself exactly as he is.  It shows us nothing more or less than the deepest, most desperate desire of our hearts. However, this mirror will give us neither knowledge or truth. Men have wasted away before it, entranced by what they have seen, or been driven mad, not knowing if what it shows is real or even possible."

When I read into what you wrote the same struggle I have with defining my worth based on what others tell me it is, I think that my therapist would say that you will only be able to enter into a healthy (and fulfilling) relationship when you aren't trying to use the other person like the Mirror of Erised.  You need to become that "happiest man on earth" who knows who he is and is able to see that reflected in his relationships without distortion, or recognize the distortion when it's there. 

So what do you think?  Do you think you are looking for a woman who can tell you who you are because you don't know who you are after your relationship with pwBPD?  Do you think you knew who you were before pwBPD?  Do you think that relationship fundamentally changed who you are?

The truth is out there.

{Sorry, couldn't help myself.  The X-files theme has been running in my head since I read your username}

BG

[JNChell]

Hi Fox Mulder. I’ve only been out of my relationship close to 4 months now. I do relate to how you’re feeling, but I don’t think I can fully grasp this early on if it is a permanent thing. The idea of dating scares the crap out of me right now. I also relate to BeagleGirl as I’m learning and accepting that I was damaged upon entering the relationship with my ex. I was in an awful relationship with a girl for 4 years before my current ex. I had taken a year off from dating before I had met my ex. I did some work on myself, but I’m now realizing that I hadn’t properly healed from the previous relationship, and more importantly, I hadn’t grieved and healed from my childhood. The only positives that I can honestly take away from the relationship are our Son whom I love dearly, and that I now know the work that I need to do on myself. I bounce back and forth between missing my ex, and pretty much having hateful and ill feelings toward her. I’ve been dreaming about her a lot lately, and it sucks. I’ve started to take melatonin to help with sleep, but intense and crazy dreams are a side effect. I hope you’re able to start feeling better about things. It seems like this has been bothering you for quite some time and you have my sympathy. These feelings are very, very hard to get through. Take care.

[toomanydogs]

Hi Fox,
  I agree here with Beagle Girl and actually with you, as well.
  I was married 10 years, still not yet divorced although H filed for divorce the end of August.
  I was damaged when I got into the rs with H; however, I have had so so so many years of therapy, I knew the code words and didn't feel damaged. I fooled myself.
  When I met my H I'd been celibate for 12 years. There were a lot of reasons I chose that, but primarily I didn't trust myself to get into a relationship after having been married before; in addition, I had two young children and didn't want to start a parade of men traipsing through my kids' lives. So... .
  What my H did (at least I thought so) was interject fun into a relationship. We met online and spent hours having phone sex before we ever met face-to-face. When I finally met him--and I was absolutely besieged with angst by the time we met:What if he doesn't like me? What if I'm too fat, too old, too whatever?
  And what my H did was wrap me in his arms and say, "See, this isn't so weird."
  We used to joke that we'd both led with all our baggage. Someone else on these boards called it "trauma bonding."
  So now here I am still not divorced and about to meet a man for lunch today, and I have all those feelings. There will never be a man like my H, but then I am no longer that woman.
  I, too, dream of my H. Just last night I dreamt that he was sitting on the porch; he'd come to move his stuff out of the house, and I asked, "Are you sure you don't want to give the marriage another year, try counseling?" And he kind of looked away, curled his lip, and said, "Naw. I'm sure. No counseling."
  You know, until today, I couldn't even bear to think of my H in any positive light. Ehh. Maybe I'm healing?
  The other thing: Both H and I are writers. I fell in love with him based on the beautiful, romantic emails he wrote me, in particular one about my being a woman of the past or the future. Something just gorgeous that I don't recall right now.
  About three years ago, I was sorting through papers of my H, trying to organize things, and I came across a short play he'd written and paid to get edited, which is how I'd met him--editing, and I found the exact line he'd sent me in the email. It was never even his; it was the editor's. Who in the hell did I fall in love with?
  Other thing about my H. He's been out of the house since August but he left behind a broken, trashed computer that occasionally downloads his writing, and he's been "dating" a lot--a lot a lot a lot--of women, and I find Google searches: what to write to a woman who's coming out of a bad relationship? What to say to a woman after a great date? Romantic things to write to a woman you want to sleep with.
  As I write that, a chill kind of goes over me. Truth is, my H is a complicated man, a very ill, complicated man. I always sensed a certain artifice when I first got with him. For example, he'd strewn rose petals across the apartment floor when we first got together.
  And I need to thank you, Fox, for your post. I apologize as I may have co-opted it, but this is the first time I've been able to grapple with the why of falling in love with him. He worked very hard to get me to fall in love with him, and he succeeded.
  None of that great stuff, however, negates his cruelty. He was cruel to my grown kids, my elderly dog, his father, me, people who worked for us. He was/is like a five-year-old--can be very charming, very loving, and then say mean, vile things. Even his sense of humor was that of a five-year-old. He once found a dead lizard and stuck it in the refrigerator on top of the yogurt. He used to take the binding off books, roll it between his fingers and, pretending it was a booger, try to wipe it on me.
  I don't think I'll find someone ever again like my H. He was exciting, and he was fun when he wasn't dysregulated, and probably 80 to 90 percent of the time, at least at the end, he was incredibly dysregulated.
  As far as being permanently "damaged," I'm not sure. Changed, certainly. I'm in my 60s and I'm now looking more for a companion, someone to go places with, someone to talk with, and I am looking for as little drama as possible and that will never be my H.
TMD

[Jeffree]

Now those words just bounce off me. I don't really know why.

It sounds to me as though 7 years later you've matured and so has your dating pool and you and they do dating differently than you did 7 years ago with your ex BPD.

Me? I was over the moon with my first GF. BPD or not, it was my first experience with a committed relationship. I was 23 years old. She was a few years older than me. She was so beautiful and sexy. That she wanted to be with me like that blew my mind. Just holding hands would make my head spin. I felt like I was on top of the world and finally was experiencing all that which the great novelists wrote about.

Fast forward two wives and 25+ years later, and it's like, "Eh, whatever." I don't have the inclination to jump through hoops to impress anyone anymore and I find myself less and less interested in the chase.

I don't think it's fleas from my exBPDs, but just how my needs have evolved as I have aged.

J

[valet]

Permanently damaged or negatively changed? I don't believe so.

I can't say that I handled everything well, but I think I made myself into a better person in the aftermath of my failed relationship. This whole thing of life is a long road, and we can do what we want with it, more or less.

I miss the old days. It's a very complicated thing, missing something that ended up being fake - or at the very least, a huge exaggeration. After I found out about mirroring and being a 'favorite person' and splitting, it hurt a lot. It still hurts, because now when I remember the times we shared together, it's incredibly bittersweet. I remember how happy I felt. And then I remember how false it all was.

In some ways, I miss the old days too. The first 2/3rds of my relationship was pretty good. I felt loved, like I had met someone special that I truly enjoyed being around.Now I understand the pain of enduring this kind of loss—it was very similar to a death.

Try to remember that the splitting was a gradual process, even if you didn't get a chance to see it that way because your partner hid a lot of their feelings. They tried. They couldn't sustain. They're still fighting that battle. We don't have to have them in our lives (we have that choice), but the suffering that they inflicted upon us was also inflicted on themselves.

I mostly just remember the happy parts now. I realize that she was a person of many facets, and that in reality we just weren't a good fit together. I had issues just like she did.

You want to talk more about feeling haunted by her ghost?

Maybe discussing that here could help you.

[jinglebells1989]

Reading this I felt like I was typing it. I haven't heard from mine in over a year and there are still some days where I'm absolutely devastated by what she did. The building me up and then violently tearing me down. I do feel that I have been changed permanently by her. I wrote a post about it today actually. I really try my best to shake this "what's the point?" attitude I have most days in my dealings with others, but it's really hard. I honestly don't feel that I'll ever have another connection with someone like I did with her and to think that it was all fake and that she basically tricked me is hard. I wish there was a flip I could switch off and just forget her but she pops into my mind daily. Sometimes for a few seconds and sometimes for hours. I don't know what to do anymore.

[Skip]

I want to throw a simple idea into the mix here, Fox... .

Did you ever think that you are a guy who wants this type of relationship, but doesn't know how to catalyze it. Your ex did and you loved it.

My point is that you can create that relationship. It's not going to happen with every person, and if you can't get it after a reasonable time, move on, try again.

I took the intensity of my relationship and went out and tried to create it in a healthy version. I had three short relationships that just weren't going to get there. But I hit it on the fourth.

Does this thought have general merit? Anyone?

[toomanydogs]

I took the intensity of my relationship and went out and tried to create it in a healthy version. I had three short relationships that just weren't going to get there. But I hit it on the fourth.

Does this thought have general merit?

This is encouraging. I like the idea of being the catalyst for my own relationship. Makes me feel more in control of my future.
TMD

[Jeffree]

I took the intensity of my relationship and went out and tried to create it in a healthy version.

So, this unicorn of which you speak... .

Did you have to change your approach, outlook, methodology, etc. to meet such a person, or did you just do things as you always did only you were more vehement in what you were looking for in a relationship and moved on from those who did fit the profile a lot quicker?

I do believe we can have such a relationship, only some insight would be helpful to those of us still wandering the desert in search of an oasis.

J

[Bo123]

"Passion and excitement from the BPD girl".  I wonder if you like that over a "normal" girl.  Have you thought about that?  Yeah it  can be intoxicating but you also say you don't want a BPD back?
I understand the thrill but I also and you do also understand the pain that comes with a BPD.  My input is to expect less and be happier, maybe a sacrifice but maybe a longer happier relationship.  Just my thoughts, wish you the best.

[valet]

"Passion and excitement from the BPD girl".  I wonder if you like that over a "normal" girl.  Have you thought about that?  Yeah it  can be intoxicating but you also say you don't want a BPD back?
I understand the thrill but I also and you do also understand the pain that comes with a BPD.  My input is to expect less and be happier, maybe a sacrifice but maybe a longer happier relationship.  Just my thoughts, wish you the best.

Hey Bo, let's not forget that there are lots of 'normal' girls who are also passionate and exciting.

My point is that these are not mutually exclusive categories. A good relationship does not have to be boring, it just has to be passionate and exciting in healthy ways.

Being here and/or in therapy is about discovering what those healthy ways are for us. We're all capable of it if we take an honest look at the big picture, learn from it, and make changes to our current habits of behavior.

What do you think?

[gotbushels]

Hi Fox Mulder  
I'd like to provide some support with the others.

I'm happy for them, but I'd like to know that I'm not alone, and that there are people like me who are still kind of off-balance after their BPD ex left them.

Well, I didn't do the BPD-then-love-of-my-life-a-year-later. Dating wasn't easy. Me too, I met someone where the experience was like this:

these women probably really like me, but deep down, I just feel like they're all kind of disinterested. And I grow disinterested too. There goes the relationship.

But I didn't feel "off-balance", and I didn't experience this:

Wondering if the very concept of a relationship has been ruined for them.

I'd like to share this bit. One thing that pwBPDs could teach us is increasing our emotional awareness. Improving our listening skills to if our emotions are telling us things. Here--for me--that off-balance feeling and "concept-ruination" feelings could be a motif that recurs enough to tell me that I'm self-conscious about something that it's trying to get my attention. It's okay to take yourself out of dating for a few weeks to figure this out, if you want.



I think Skip's suggestion here is good to build upon.

Did you ever think that you are a guy who wants this type of relationship, but doesn't know how to catalyze it.

I think it helps to know what you want, then figure out how you want to get that, then actually experiencing it. Yes--there's a lot in between--but if you go backwards it's still going to be more stressful and waste a lot of time.

Good luck!  

[Seenowayout]

I totally get what Skip is saying.  At the very least, my exBPDgf showed me that intense affection and happiness was actually a thing, and it came after years of feeling completely invisible in a lifeless marriage.  Imagine having that intense BPD affection and happiness without the intense rage and demonizing?  It is possible.

I heard on the radio the other day that pigeons mate for life.  And the male continues his courting rituals with his mate all life long, walking along side, continuously puffing up behind her,  and strutting along and making her feel good.  Catalyzing.

I've had relationships where the partner simply wasn't capable of the highs.  But after my exBPD r/s I found a mate who appreciates the highs I catalyze for her, and she manages her lows because she trusts me, and she catalyzes my highs back when I'm occasionally low, because she's passionate and exciting, and on and on.

It is possible.

[BeagleGirl]

I think that it's a really good thing that you are recognizing what you want.  I know it can be discouraging to think that you may be waiting for some mythical creature that will never materialize, but I wouldn't be quick to drop your standards.  Instead, keep doing what you are doing.  Explore the feelings of dissatisfaction so you understand where they are rooted.  Work towards differentiating where that dissatisfaction stems from outside vs inside yourself. 

As a bit of encouragement to keep looking... .

I would like to think that, when I'm ready to date, I would be the kind of woman you are looking for, and I know some women that I think you would find incredibly stimulating to mind, body, and spirit while still being stable and responsible and nurturing.  Unfortunately none of them are available either.  Sorry.   

But the idea is that there are women out there who could rock your world while keeping a solid foundation. 

Now if only I had some assurance that my "mythical creature" exists.  My therapist tells me that there are men out there who will be deserving of all I have to offer.  I'll just keep trusting that she has access to data that I have not yet seen.   

BG

[Bo123]

Fox Mulder & ALL--  I still maintain as my own copyrighted theory that a relatively normal person who ends up dating/marrying a BPD goes through a completely different process to recovery.  We can't compare ourselves to a "Normal relationship", however you want to define that but I think most know.  I had a long r/s like you, she was very highly functioning everywhere, work, friends, had low BPD which I didn't catch until after the r/s ended.  Never had a chance to try things that have shown to work. the BPD invades us in some way that is difficult to explain and nothing seems the same anymore with anyone else.  Studies show we start to show BPD tendencies when we date one, however so slight, it changes us. Been 3+ years for me and she still is a good , loveable, big hearted person who has a lot of marriage material in her, but she did the NC 1.5 years AFTER the break-up.  I feel your pain, its normal, I hope things go well for you and you get back to your normal self, but, yeah your feeling are normal, I think we all have them or the dating issue.  Best wishes my friend.

[Jeffree]

One of the interesting things about my scenario is that I knew my STBx 30 years before we married and we were on talking terms for about 5 years before I lost touch with her because she moved out of the neighborhood, and without even knowing her hardly at all she always sent my heart aflutter. She was the first girl I ever asked out when I was 13, and even though she rejected my effort she always had that moth to a flame impact on me, only I didn't realize there was an actual flame until it was too late. When we reunited after all those years it was like a nuclear explosion.

Normal? I'm not expecting too much.

J

[Moselle]

My therapist has challenged me to not consider dating until I firmly know my worth without anyone needing me to tell me what it is. 

There is some wisdom in that. Also because once we feel comfortable with our own worth, we can recognize, validate and value that in another intimate partner.

Did you ever think that you are a guy who wants this type of relationship, but doesn't know how to catalyze it. Your ex did and you loved it.

This is very insightful. My Borderline did all the catalyzing too, and I've wondered if I can do the same with someone else. Of course we can!

Hey Bo, let's not forget that there are lots of 'normal' girls who are also passionate and exciting.

Well said.  Passion and excitement without the drama. What does that look/feel like?

[zachira]

Borderline women are notoriously easy sexually and in the beginning will do anything to be worshiped by their partner. When the love comes first, the best sex may or may not come later. Certainly, no long term relationship is endlessly exciting. One long term married couple I know has kept the sex exciting by having separate bedrooms and requiring that the partner wanting sex to seduce the other. I found that if you sleep in the same bed every night, than there is lots of lazy sex, and it becomes routine after awhile.

[iluminati]

Interesting post.  It's been close to 8 years since I originally signed up for the site, and 4.5 years since we went myself and xw pwBPD went our separate ways.  I've dated plenty since then, and went through the normal process.  I won't say that everything has been perfect.  But it's been nice to not have Every Single Moment be The Most Important Moment EVER.  Even when things don't work out, we've been able to wind things down in a civil and humane way. 

Personally, I'm glad not to deal with that much excitement.  There are much healthier ways to get that adrenaline rush, and they're much more controlled too.  It's nice not to know that the next month counts on how I react in any given moment, such as the dishes, or the grocery shopping, or whether to go out for dinner or whatever else.  I'm fine with that.

[gotbushels]

But it's been nice to not have Every Single Moment be The Most Important Moment EVER.
... .
It's nice not to know that the next month counts on how I react in any given moment, such as the dishes, or the grocery shopping, or whether to go out for dinner or whatever else.  I'm fine with that.

Yes!