Is my mom's financial & living situations my responsibility?

[GreenRoad]

I posted recently about my mom's undiagnosed BPD and how she is currently upset with me because I did not invite her on a family vacation I'm planning with my inlaws this summer. I got a lot of great feedback, perspective, and advice from the members here, and I greatly appreciate it. My mom was supposed to come visit me in two weeks (we live about 7 hours away from each other). Anyway, I called my mom Sunday to explain I’m not up for a visit right now, and I’m actually proud of how I handled myself.

She of course said she’d changed her mind and hadn’t planned on coming anyway, and she went into her typical railing at me about how I never include her in anything, and I don’t make an effort to do anything with her, and how I make so much more of an effort with my in laws than I do with her. It was the typical guilt trip with her bringing up every possible “slight” she could think of from the past decade.

I let her say her piece without interruption. Typically in these situations, I’d simply say “ok” pretty passively and end the conversation, but this time I actually responded to her by constructively telling her how I feel about things. I acknowledged her feelings, and I also reminded her how I have gone out of my way to include her in things, and that it is also ok for me to do things separately with my in laws or friends. I managed to tell her I will not allow her to use guilt to manipulate me any longer, something I’d never been able to say to her before.

I was very careful to not accuse her of anything, and I just focused on “I” statements instead of saying anything like, “You do this, or you do that.” I think she was a bit caught off guard by my assertiveness and she said some pretty hurtful things, but I let it roll and didn’t take any of the bait she was dangling in front of me like I have in the past.

Her BPD tendencies were so clear to me during this conversation Sunday, and I’m glad I’ve taken the time recently to read about this disorder and be a part of this group. I was able to separate myself a bit from her sickness today and her words didn’t seem so personal to me.

I’m not sure what’s next for my mom and I, or when we’ll speak again, but I’m gaining confidence and peace within myself, and I know I can’t control her words, actions, or feelings, only my own. I had an appointment with my therapist this morning, and while I am proud of the progress I've made, I'm grappling with the sense of responsibility I still feel about my mom's well being. She is currently living with my 85 year old grandma, not to help grandma, but because she screwed up her financial situation so badly. Grandma is healthy, but since she's 85 I feel like my mom needs to have a plan about what happens after grandma isn't around. The house they are living in will go back to the bank when grandma passes as there is a reverse mortgage, and my mom has brought up the desire to put a tiny house or fifth wheel on the property my husband and I live on, which I've brought up on this forum before. I absolutely cannot have my mother living on my property, or even in the same area really, so I'm not sure how to handle this subject. Each time I bring up having a plan for the future she changes the subject, and at the time she brought up living on my property I wasn't mentally able to say "no" outright and kind of beat round the bush myself.

I'm interested in hearing how others have handled situations like this? My mom and dad are divorced, and I'm an only child, so I'm worried that my mom will turn to me to take care of her when grandma isn't around anymore, and I do feel guilty as she has no where else to go. My therapist suggested I set up a "mom savings account" of sorts and put some money away each month so when my mom does need help I'll at least have something to help her with and may not be so resentful. But just the thought of this makes me resentful. I feel my mom is a grown woman and should be able to take care of herself, but she sees it as the "family duty" to step up and help her. I'm just lost when it comes to this aspect of the situation.   

[Woolspinner2000]

Hi StephDawn, 

Well, first of all I think kudos must be handed out to you!  Great job on not only taking in and absorbing helpful information, but in putting those things in to practice! How freeing and empowering it must have been for you. I'm clapping for you! Keep working at the grasping of truth and the help your T offers and what you learn each day because the journey isn't over, and I want you to keep going on. You are changing the dynamics, and that is going to shake things up.

Do you know if there will be any $ left over from the house when your grandma passes away? If so, I wonder if a little piece of property or a small trailer (as she has suggested) could be purchased someplace other than on your property? That definitely sounds like it would not be the healthiest dynamic to have her living right next to you. Boundaries!

 
Wools

[Insom]

Wow, thanks for the update, StephDawn!  It sounds like you've made real progress in communicating with your mom.  Allow me to join Woolspinner2000 in congratulating you. 

I feel my mom is a grown woman and should be able to take care of herself, but she sees it as the "family duty" to step up and help her. I'm just lost when it comes to this aspect of the situation. 

How do you view "family duty?"  Do you know what role you'd like to play with your mom as you both age?

[Turkish]

What is her income source at this point?

[madeline7]

I asked myself the same question about 2 years ago when my Mom's circumstances changed. I even went to a attorney who specializes in elder law to ask him what my responsibilities were. (for me it was not a financial concern, more of a caretaker and living situation concern). He told me I was not legally responsible to take care of her. During an incident when she was actively raging at me, she asked me why she was not welcome in my home to live with me, and I responded that it was because of THIS BEHAVIOR (she was screaming at me at the time) that I could not have her in my home. Then I walked out and went NC for a few months. No one in the family had ever told her the truth, too busy walking on egg shells. She did not appreciate hearing the truth, but it was very cathartic for me to say it when she was in the middle of a rage, because if I had said those words to her after she had calmed down, she would have denied that the rage had ever happened. It has been on and off NC since then. It is exhausting, but at least she knows that I will not have her live with me, and my siblings know that her volatility makes it an unmanageable situation for me.

[GreenRoad]

Thank you all for your insight and replies!

Hi StephDawn, 

Well, first of all I think kudos must be handed out to you!  Great job on not only taking in and absorbing helpful information, but in putting those things in to practice! How freeing and empowering it must have been for you. I'm clapping for you! Keep working at the grasping of truth and the help your T offers and what you learn each day because the journey isn't over, and I want you to keep going on. You are changing the dynamics, and that is going to shake things up.

Do you know if there will be any $ left over from the house when your grandma passes away? If so, I wonder if a little piece of property or a small trailer (as she has suggested) could be purchased someplace other than on your property? That definitely sounds like it would not be the healthiest dynamic to have her living right next to you. Boundaries!

 
Wools

Wools, thank you for your kind words. Yes, I feel like I've kind of "turned the corner" for myself in this relationship and it feels very good. My therapist has given me some great things to think about and reflect on, and she said yesterday I am the "chain breaker" in the family, so it is shaking things up. I just need to work hard to not get sucked back into the guilt trips in the family, which will continue to be challenging.

Since the housing market has gone crazy in Denver, I assume there may be some money left over that would be split between my mom and her two siblings, but I'm not at all sure of what that would be. I was pretty knowledgeable about my grandma's financial situation after my grandpa passed, but her and my mom are pretty secretive about it now, and grandma is constantly "helping" her kids by giving them money, so I really have no idea. Really, that would be an ideal situation if my mom could purchase a little piece of property and a modular or tiny house to put on it. I think some independence would definitely benefit her psychologically.

Wow, thanks for the update, StephDawn!  It sounds like you've made real progress in communicating with your mom.  Allow me to join Woolspinner2000 in congratulating you. 

How do you view "family duty?"  Do you know what role you'd like to play with your mom as you both age?

Insom, that is a great question, and it is something I have been thinking about a lot. Obligation and guilt have been used as a manipulation tool in my family ever since I can remember, so I'm really trying to evaluate my values to figure out what "family duty" means for me. I think this is really the biggest question I'm grappling with right now. 

What is her income source at this point?

Turkish, my mom works full time and has a decent paying job. I did ask her a couple months back if she'd been able to save enough to move out on her own as my uncle had also moved into grandma's temporarily and there was some tension there as they do not get along. I told her maybe it'd be healthier to be out on her own, and she said she had too many bills and it wasn't possible. Any time I try to bring this up, she just changes the subject, so I'm unsure of what her financial situation really looks like. (Although grandma is on a fixed limited income, they still manage to take an annual trip to California together.)

I asked myself the same question about 2 years ago when my Mom's circumstances changed. I even went to a attorney who specializes in elder law to ask him what my responsibilities were. (for me it was not a financial concern, more of a caretaker and living situation concern). He told me I was not legally responsible to take care of her. During an incident when she was actively raging at me, she asked me why she was not welcome in my home to live with me, and I responded that it was because of THIS BEHAVIOR (she was screaming at me at the time) that I could not have her in my home. Then I walked out and went NC for a few months. No one in the family had ever told her the truth, too busy walking on egg shells. She did not appreciate hearing the truth, but it was very cathartic for me to say it when she was in the middle of a rage, because if I had said those words to her after she had calmed down, she would have denied that the rage had ever happened. It has been on and off NC since then. It is exhausting, but at least she knows that I will not have her live with me, and my siblings know that her volatility makes it an unmanageable situation for me.

Madeline7, thank you for sharing your experience. I think it's great you were able to stand up to your mom in the middle of a rage to tell her how you feel and why you'd made the decision that she couldn't be in your home. Although the responsibility isn't ours legally, it's really hard to be a child of a BPD parent and separate yourself from the caretaker roll you're expected to take on.


I'm coming to realize my grandma raised some very codependent children, and that has really contributed to much of the dysfunction within the family. My aunt and uncle have relied on my grandma for financial help and a place to live off and on during their adult lives, and my mom has also jumped on that bandwagon in the last few years. The three of them don't get along with one another at all, and they all seem to be very bitter towards one another regarding the help grandma has provided.

[Insom]

Obligation and guilt have been used as a manipulation tool in my family ever since I can remember, so I'm really trying to evaluate my values to figure out what "family duty" means for me. I think this is really the biggest question I'm grappling with right now.

 

Great insight, StephDawn.  Many of us here (me included!) grapple with the same thing.  Keep in touch, let us know how it goes.

In the meantime, anyone else want to weigh in?

How do you tell the difference between true obligations/commitments that matter to you and FOG (fear,obligation,guilt).

[Turkish]

In 1989, my mother had saved up $14k in cash to put a down payment on 5 acres and a home.  Three years previously, she had lost 25 acres (with a beautiful riverfront!) for want of a $15k note, not quite $36k in current dollars. That's probably a $400k property these days even without a house.   It was puppy mill money, a cash stash hidden in the camper we lived in. 

The APS social worker implied that my mom may have over $10k in the bank now.  Money management is the issue.

Good question, Insom. I think I'm at the end of grappling with it.  I read a blog where commenters were touting Asian culture that you took care of your parents no matter what,  and they slammed western culture.  There is a point there,  but given a mentally ill parent who may be a danger,  the point is moot, in my opinion. 

This might help.  It's one of my favorite discussions here:

4.02 | Family systems--understanding the narcissistic family