Her bizarre version of me

[lighthouse9]

Hi good people,

Bizarre check in with separated uBPDw last night. She moved out about a week and a half ago and we've been doing check ins every few days to keep low contact. I haven't been pushing her to make a decision on whether or not she wants to take this time as a therapeutic separation or if she's going to file divorce, but my patience with the uncertainty is wearing thin. She leaves in two weeks for a 6 week training course for work and I'd like to have some indication of where she's at before then, even if "I'm not sure" is where she's at.

During our check in last night (over the phone), I relayed this, and it was a nightmare. She starts DBT tonight and these sessions couldn't come fast enough, though I'm not sure what she's arranged to do while she's away for 6 weeks, though she did say she will be working with someone.

I've been trying to figure out what to say or ask the group here, because I've already taken a vacation day to let myself recover from the bizarre nature of the conversation last night. I guess I can think of a few things:

1. For those of you who had partners that did get into DBT, what was it like at first? Anything I should expect/be wary of?

2. How do you all deal with learning about the bizarre version your partner has of you, especially when painted black? Some of the things she said last night were just so off the wall and yet explained so much, about how she's been able to justify some of her behavior, especially the affair.

3. Finally, when they do things that are counterproductive and you know that it's going to lead to harm, how do you remind yourself to not intervene or say "I told you so!"? For example, she's very isolated right now and is in an almost empty apartment and has now decided not to get internet since she's leaving soon. At first, she told me these things out of pride. Then, as the conversation went on, she got really upset that she "has no one right now" and is so alone and no one is looking out for her, and to top it off she doesn't even have internet! It took everything in me not to say "you did this to yourself," because she did. She moved out and abandoned our home without any conversation together about it, which is forcing me to move, and she decided she didn't want furniture or internet.

My therapist, who is from the same DBT place, is working with me on taking less of her responsibilities and setting boundaries with her so she does some of the things that I've been doing for her. I find this hard, even though I know I have to do it, and I'm sick of doing so much by myself. But, I realized that one of the reasons I'm taking on some of the responsibility is because I'm afraid of her dysregulating even further. Do you all do this? Do you do things you shouldn't do because you're afraid of the fall out? Where's the balance?

More to come - she's supposed to send me a text tonight to say whether or not we are meeting up again this weekend. The next two weeks will likely be wild before she leaves, and I'm just doing everything I can to keep my center and rest when I can.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Tattered Heart]

My H has never been to T so I'm not sure what to expect. I've heard some people say they see almost immediate results; I've heard others say that things get a little worse before they get better.

As for letting them experience their own consequences, it's hard to watch. So hard! You have the answer right there, but they just don't see it. It's like they are blind to it. The main thing I do is try to ask questions that will lead my H to the right answer.

Ex:
H: I'm cool because I don't have internet.

H: Life sucks and I'm lonely because I don't the internet

Me: I hate that you are feeling bummed about not having the internet. I know what it's like to feel lonely. Sometimes I make decision then I regret making those decisions. You decided not to get the internet. Are you wanting to change your mind about not having the internet? (Or something like that).

[isilme]

I'm afraid I can't help with the DBT, I doubt I'd ever get him into therapy, and the few times I've heard his dysregulated views of an avatar of me that lives in his head I've been rather horrified.  Mostly, these are relayed when he chooses to tell me nightmares in which I sleep with people in front of him, drive him off cliffs laughing as I destroy his car, and enjoy hurting him as much as possible.  He made some progress in accepting that this is coming from his mind and he does not get to be mad at me all day/week because he had a bad dream about things I'd never do.  

But, I realized that one of the reasons I'm taking on some of the responsibility is because I'm afraid of her dysregulating even further. Do you all do this? Do you do things you shouldn't do because you're afraid of the fall out? Where's the balance?

Yes and no.  I do the things I fear will negatively affect me if not done - some of that includes preventing fall out, a lot of it is simply me compartmentalizing things so I can deal and living as if at times I am the only functioning adult in our house.  Other things, I try to do triage and let fail as they can, to minimize exactly how much I enable him.

I need food, so I go to the store.  I buy what BOTH of us want, but with or without him, I'd have to go to the store.

I make sure bills are paid - I'd do this with or without him, and leaving any of this to him pretty much means we'd be getting cut off notices or he'd just get cranky every time he had to send something in.  

I do housework, yard work, most of the pet care and chores because again, I'd do this with or without him, and he DOES have some valid health issues making such things more of a physical drain on him than me, and I actually like feeling proud I did it.  Right now, I am sick, getting over a serious of colds and infections, and our yard is terrible.  So I am looking for a lawn service to help out to avoid having a relapse.  I hate spending the money on it, but I it less than how my yard looks right now.

Getting to work - we work in the same complex of buildings, but with different bosses.  We also usually work the same hours.  It just makes logical sense for me to work to get us BOTH to work on time.  It makes MY day better.  If his is improved by it, yay.  If that means I take time to get his breakfast stuff together and ready so I can leave on time, I am willing to do it.  

Other things, like if he completes personal projects, if he does things early or late, I am afraid if it won't directly affect me, I let them fail if he lets them fail.  If he ASKS for help- I help.  If it is something that will hurt another person, I may step in to take care of it.  

I think I will always do a disproportionate amount of things.  I see this in other relationships of other couples, where I don't think BPD intrudes, so I don't feel that bad that often about it.  I see H as disabled in a way, and that is partly physical, now, but has mostly been an emotional disability that makes him make bad decisions, be impulsive, and be irrational at times.  Since I have the ability, usually, to better marshall my emotions, it falls on me to be the level head.  It's tiring, and not ideal, but it is what it is, and I love him and overall, in the 22 years we've been together, I've seen him work to improve, and I've had to grow a lot too.  He's gone from a guy who was afraid of having a jb because he might fail to someone usually well regarded as a good worker.  He used to blow off all holidays and birthday in case he failed in gift giving - that's changed.  

I think the balance is you determining what you can do and what you can leave for her to do, and fear of fallout is a normal thing to motivate you, but it should be low on the list if you are working to undo some enabling behavoir.

[pearlsw]

Hi lighthouse9,

When you say the next two weeks will be wild... .Um, what are you expecting? Break up threats? A break up? Other extreme stuff?

wishing you peace, pearl.

[DearHusband]

Bizarre check in with separated uBPDw last night.

What exactly did she say?

Then, as the conversation went on, she got really upset that she "has no one right now" and is so alone and no one is looking out for her, and to top it off she doesn't even have internet!

This comes across as thinking of herself as a victim. When you are a victim you can justify a lot of behavior.

Good luck,
DH

 

[lighthouse9]

Thanks everyone!

The next two weeks will be wild because she leaves for 6 weeks after that and is not happy that she has to go to this training right now, given everything going on.

I expect emotional outbursts and more plays on my consciousness of whether or not she is ok. She's already out of the house and I assume we are broken up? This is what I'm trying to get to the bottom of right now, without putting too much pressure on her. Are we just taking time and space? Is this just the lag before a divorce? Are we taking time and space and working on ourselves in hopes of reconnecting? Again, her saying "I don't know" is a totally ok answer for now, but being in the dark here is really tough.

She's coming over Saturday to discuss. She sent me a very sad text message after her first session last night that she'd like to come over and talk and pick up the rest of her stuff she didn't get last week. This is a development from my suggestion, which was that we meet in a neutral spot and take a walk together to talk. Her wanting to come over to the house tells me that the convo is big and that one or both of us will likely be in tears, hence not wanting to have this conversation in public.

I was able to get her on the phone for a few minutes just to try and get a sense of her emotional state post counseling. When I asked if she was ok over text she said "kinda," which is big from someone who typically says they are fine. On the phone, she sounded like the session really drained her and she asked that I respect her not talking about her sessions, which I've agreed to and am good with. She sounded like someone who just found out that had cancer or something, but maybe I'm projecting how I would feel after something like that.

DH - the bizarre stuff was more around how she saw me, like I was just trying to control and influence her and that I have no desire to leave the house or do things for fun. Then there was the comments about how she's not a pity case and how she's "actually fine" when no one is around, it's just when people are around that she hears everyone's desires and can't hear her own. I'm glad she's recognizing this, but being ok only when you're alone is not "actually fine" and it's felt lately like she's inadvertently using this as a way to keep me from speaking my truth in our conversations. The no internet thing was bizarre, especially when she lost her mind about it. Also, being mad at me because everyone is looking out for me and I know so much stuff about how to separate and get logistical details in order and no one is supporting her and she's so alone. This is true, but again, she did it to herself - and you're absolutely right about the victim mentality. And, the people "looking out for me" are our neighbors, who are doing what neighbors do in a situation like this - check in, invite me over, and offer a space to discuss logistical things I don't know. The other stuff I know how to do I've had to either seek out professional advice or spend countless hours on the internet figuring it out, because that's what you do when someone puts you in a position like this - find a way out, no matter how little agency you have. Or at least that's what I do. To be chastised for having to survive this was infuriating, but I kept my cool and realized it for what it is: her projection and being a victim.

Islime and TH- I like your suggestions, I'm going to have to try them - if there's still a relationship there.

I was reading the BPD subreddit last night and it was devastating but helpful. I could hear her voice in so many of the people posting on there and it made me really step back and think about how over this relationship likely is, and how long it has likely been over. I'll learn more Saturday I guess, just gotta push through today.

[Chippy]

1. For those of you who had partners that did get into DBT, what was it like at first? Anything I should expect/be wary of?

My SO wBPD just started DBT 2 weeks ago, so too soon to say.  However in the past I had a (different) SO wBPD who was in DBT when I met her, but she "vacationed out" (missed to many sessions) and rapidly went downhill after not going any more... .now I can't say if she was already struggling and thats why she dropped out, or if no longer being around that environment caused her to decline... .but overall in my experience DBT has been a very helpful thing.

2. How do you all deal with learning about the bizarre version your partner has of you, especially when painted black? Some of the things she said last night were just so off the wall and yet explained so much, about how she's been able to justify some of her behavior, especially the affair.

This is a tough one, that I think many people who have a loved on with BPD struggle with.  I'm still trying to find ways to cope with it. I understand the feeling though... .having them say things that are so far off from the reality you've experienced, and just being at a loss where it is even coming from.  My natural response is to try to logically talk things out, and try to "sync up" our realities... .but this is generally not productive, and can actually be very counter-productive.  My pwBPD (and I'm assuming yours as well) is completely in their "emotional mind" at those times, and no amount of logic thought and reasoning helps, in fact, it make her feel invalidated and even more defensive if I try to share my "version" of reality.

What has been helping me some is just learning about BPD and the associated behaviors. It doesn't fix my struggle, but it does help me to have at least a little better idea what's going on, and possibly the "why" behind some of her words/behaviors.  I would highly recommend the book "Stop walking on Eggshells" if you haven't read it. There have been countless times when reading it when I was shocked at finding things about her that totally baffled me, described and explained almost exactly in the book. Things like splitting, projection, and "facts following feelings... .Again, it doesn't change anything, but helps me cope some

3. Finally, when they do things that are counterproductive and you know that it's going to lead to harm, how do you remind yourself to not intervene or say "I told you so!"? For example, she's very isolated right now and is in an almost empty apartment and has now decided not to get internet since she's leaving soon. At first, she told me these things out of pride. Then, as the conversation went on, she got really upset that she "has no one right now" and is so alone and no one is looking out for her, and to top it off she doesn't even have internet! It took everything in me not to say "you did this to yourself," because she did. She moved out and abandoned our home without any conversation together about it, which is forcing me to move, and she decided she didn't want furniture or internet.

Honestly, I don't have any advice on this one, sorry.  I am lost on this one.  It is so hard to watch someone you care about do things that are clearly (to you) unwise, unhealthy, self-destructive, or even dangerous... .and not be able to do anything.  Even basic suggestions can be taken as "trying to fix them"

My therapist, who is from the same DBT place, is working with me on taking less of her responsibilities and setting boundaries with her so she does some of the things that I've been doing for her. I find this hard, even though I know I have to do it, and I'm sick of doing so much by myself. But, I realized that one of the reasons I'm taking on some of the responsibility is because I'm afraid of her dysregulating even further. Do you all do this? Do you do things you shouldn't do because you're afraid of the fall out? Where's the balance?

Yes, I (and I assume many of us) do that... .do things we know we shouldn't, even to the point of damaging ourselves. With the best intentions... .we don't want someone we care about to be hurt, and we are afraid of what they will do if we don't.  It's important to examine if something is healthy support or not.  I think many of us have co-dependency issues... .and pwBPD are often master manipulators that can take advantage of that (even if they aren't doing it consciously).  That's why boundaries are so important and one of the first things everybody suggests.  But I get you, it is so very hard and a constant struggle.