Was all that behavior just her mirroring what she thought I want her to be?

[Maxpax2011]

Greetings, I have added several topics of discussion on this website, and one of the things I wanted to get some insight on was the mirroring aspect. How do we know the real person behind the BPD if they are mirroring us, future and past partners? Who is the real person behind that mask? As I research and continue my one on one therapy I may have come to the conclusion that who my ex became since our break up, maybe who she truly is, as far as personality, and her behavioral aspects. I know she has mirrored the new partner in some ways, but it seems that she is more her true self now, than she was with me. To explain, as we were dating she presented herself as this very classy, proper, polite, and sweet woman, graceful almost.

I had a session today with my counselor where I described my ideal woman, and it dawned on me that is how she was in the beginning of the relationship. Our conversations at dinner, I always took her to nice places, our trips together, all the quality time we spent together was very enjoyable. She was never obnoxious in public, never crude, not even on social media. She did have her moments of anger, and the touchy symptoms of BPD, but she was not low class in any way, not in public anyways, she never drank heavily or acted out in public. I was always a gentleman to her, always polite, treated her like a lady at all times. Kept our intimate relationship very private, even pics we posted on social media were not over the top, just ordinary, no flaunting etc. Of course her extreme BPD behavior is what drove me to finally leave.

Since I left her behavior has done a complete 180, she drinks heavily now, mainly goes to bars, her and her new partner just seem to mainly drink and that is about it. She is very open about her new relationship on social media, almost crude and immature in nature. Very hostile towards people, it seems like her behavior has no filter anymore, she openly complains about her job, her friends and her family.  One time after our break up she actually called me drunk when she first started dating the new partner, looking for some comfort. You can clearly see the drinking is taking a toll on her looks, especially around the eyes, she wears excessive amounts of make up to try and hide it. She posts non stop selfies, you rarely see her post pics of her daughter anymore. When we were dating she loved Valentines day, I always sent flowers to her job and took her to a nice dinner after, one time I took her on a weekend getaway. This Valentines day her and the new partner did nothing, she just went the gym to work out. She has been obsessed with losing weight since we broke up, her eating habits are nothing like they were when we dated, almost like she doesn't eat.

So it makes me wonder, was all that behavior when we were dating, the fun trips, and the nice dinners, the very content and graceful ladylike behavior, was all that just her mirroring what she thought I would want her to be? And who she is now is her true self? Just an alcoholic, self absorbed, woman with narcissistic tendencies who doesn't care what anyone says or thinks? How do we know who they truly are if they are always mirroring and have such extreme changes in behavior and personality? Am I right that she was such mirroring my ideal woman? And this is her true self in the present? Anyone have any similar experiences or thoughts maybe?

[once removed]

a few points for perspective:

each of us is on our best behavior, particularly in the early stages of a relationship. we all, in various ways, and to lesser and greater degrees, show the best side of us, that is likeliest to connect with whoever we fancy. certainly, it is reasonable to conclude she did that while you dated.

each of us know people that rub off on us, whos mannerisms, habits, hobbies, we may pick up. i had a friend once who, when i was around him, i would laugh at anything and everything, stuff that might normally not make me laugh. so if you knew a more reserved side of me, it might surprise you. when someone tells a joke, and i hear an infectious laugh, im way more likely to laugh. certainly, it is reasonable to conclude that she picked a lot up from you, in your relationship, and would be "different" in her next.

with BPD traits you tend to get even more of both. take someone who is insecure, has a fear of abandonment and rejection, and a loose identity, and you will see it on a more pronounced level.

mirroring is not exactly the same thing as copying, and it is not a negative thing. it facilitates bonding, and the mirroring we received from our parents as children helped form our identity... .for example, if im listening to you, and im looking you in the eye, and im nodding as you speak, im mirroring you. if i laugh at your joke, if you and i are watching a movie and we catch an inside joke and we exchange a quick glance, that is mirroring.

was she being who she thought you would want her to be? likely. it may be that she saw you as a strong leader, and also feared losing you. is she now "different" in another relationship? likely. we all are, to lesser and greater degrees. im more reserved with some people, im more engaged and energetic with others. in public, or when i meet someone new, i never curse. get me around my closest friends, and i let the ______s fly. both are the real me. likely, both are the real her. in her particular case, it also sounds like something is driving her in a destructive direction.

[Maxpax2011]

a few points for perspective:

each of us is on our best behavior, particularly in the early stages of a relationship. we all, in various ways, and to lesser and greater degrees, show the best side of us, that is likeliest to connect with whoever we fancy. certainly, it is reasonable to conclude she did that while you dated.

each of us know people that rub off on us, whos mannerisms, habits, hobbies, we may pick up. i had a friend once who, when i was around him, i would laugh at anything and everything, stuff that might normally not make me laugh. so if you knew a more reserved side of me, it might surprise you. when someone tells a joke, and i hear an infectious laugh, im way more likely to laugh. certainly, it is reasonable to conclude that she picked a lot up from you, in your relationship, and would be "different" in her next.

with BPD traits you tend to get even more of both. take someone who is insecure, has a fear of abandonment and rejection, and a loose identity, and you will see it on a more pronounced level.

mirroring is not exactly the same thing as copying, and it is not a negative thing. it facilitates bonding, and the mirroring we received from our parents as children helped form our identity... .for example, if im listening to you, and im looking you in the eye, and im nodding as you speak, im mirroring you. if i laugh at your joke, if you and i are watching a movie and we catch an inside joke and we exchange a quick glance, that is mirroring.

was she being who she thought you would want her to be? likely. it may be that she saw you as a strong leader, and also feared losing you. is she now "different" in another relationship? likely. we all are, to lesser and greater degrees. im more reserved with some people, im more engaged and energetic with others. in public, or when i meet someone new, i never curse. get me around my closest friends, and i let the ______s fly. both are the real me. likely, both are the real her. in her particular case, it also sounds like something is driving her in a destructive direction.

Thank you for your response, I do agree with some of your points, I would like to think that who she was in our relationship was in some ways the real her, and I know that she did love me in her own way, I do feel we had a strong connection. I also know that when I left she became very vindictive and vengeful, so your right the fear of loss was apparent in her actions towards me. And there is something driving her to become more destructive, could be the new partner, or could be something else. I know that there is nothing I can do myself.

[hope2727]

Hello,

I wanted to reach out and tell you how sorry I am that you are struggling with all these conflicting thoughts. The truth is that we will likely never know who the "real" them is because they don't know who the real them is.

I can only offer you this as consolation. My exwBPD once told me "I was only pretending to be who I thought you wanted me to be. You have to grieve that person as if he was dead because he never really existed."

It was probably one of the most honest things he ever said to me. I still struggle with accepting this. But in those quiet moments when I am truly honest with myself I accept that he knows not who he is and may never. He becomes who he thinks he has to be to garner acceptance and attention. He did the best he could with the abilities he had. It was insufficient to sustain a reasonably healthy relationship with me. So I celebrate the man I loved and forgive the man he really is and let him go to whoever he may or may not become.

I know this is thin and insufficient consolation. I think in the end the best we can do is hope for their peace and our own. In my case it can't be together. I hope this helps you feel less alone. Keep reading and posting. It does get better. And we become better people for it.

[Maxpax2011]

Hello,

I wanted to reach out and tell you how sorry I am that you are struggling with all these conflicting thoughts. The truth is that we will likely never know who the "real" them is because they don't know who the real them is.

I can only offer you this as consolation. My exwBPD once told me "I was only pretending to be who I thought you wanted me to be. You have to grieve that person as if he was dead because he never really existed."

It was probably one of the most honest things he ever said to me. I still struggle with accepting this. But in those quiet moments when I am truly honest with myself I accept that he knows not who he is and may never. He becomes who he thinks he has to be to garner acceptance and attention. He did the best he could with the abilities he had. It was insufficient to sustain a reasonably healthy relationship with me. So I celebrate the man I loved and forgive the man he really is and let him go to whoever he may or may not become.

I know this is thin and insufficient consolation. I think in the end the best we can do is hope for their peace and our own. In my case it can't be together. I hope this helps you feel less alone. Keep reading and posting. It does get better. And we become better people for it.

I agree, I now know that who she was when we were together was not the real her. It hurts, but at least now I know. She just needs someone to stay with her, doesn't matter how they treat her, or how involved they are with her daughter, as long as they stick around in some capacity, she doesn't care. They just need someone to take care of them. Very sad, because how can you ever be truly happy living your life like that?

[Chynna]

From what I understand, pwBPD are have super keen perception and observatory abilities. We used to talk whenever I was at his worksite and he happened to be working. I was not difficult to figure out interest wise as we had some really wonderful conversations. Looking back, it was easy for him to mirror me because I was pretty open about the things I liked to do in my spare time. We even bought each other mountain bikes. Do you think we ever used them together? Both are still here in my basement and if it hadn't been for another friend and I riding them, his would still be untouched. So from my experience (and this is only 1 example) I would say pwBPD do try to "fit in". This post makes me so sad.:0(

[Maxpax2011]

From what I understand, pwBPD are have super keen perception and observatory abilities. We used to talk whenever I was at his worksite and he happened to be working. I was not difficult to figure out interest wise as we had some really wonderful conversations. Looking back, it was easy for him to mirror me because I was pretty open about the things I liked to do in my spare time. We even bought each other mountain bikes. Do you think we ever used them together? Both are still here in my basement and if it hadn't been for another friend and I riding them, his would still be untouched. So from my experience (and this is only 1 example) I would say pwBPD do try to "fit in". This post makes me so sad.:0(

I know me too. We went on so many trips. Hiked the white mountains of new Hampshire together. Went to so many nice places. We always did something romantic on valentines day. We loved our super bowl parties, quality time with our kids, we were a nice blended family. Always nice dinner conversation. Now all she does with the new partner is go out drinking to the local dive bars. They didnt even do anything for valentines day, she went to the gym. He blew off the super bowl party she planned, never spends time with her kid. Just drinks and lounges around her house. No matter how good they had it with us it was never enough. Maybe we were just too good for them. Maybe they couldn't handle being loved the way we loved them. Maybe they cant handle a truly loving and stable relationship, Very sad.

[The Cat in d Hat]

i can agree with the mirroring, as over the weeks she would definitely change her behavior and outlook on life accordingly as i revealed more and more about myself to her.

I told her i found intelligence a great feature, she talked more and more about how she's smart and doing research and a phd. I mentioned how i hate piercings, she stopped wearing it. I told her i like certain foods, she started sending me pics of her eating them. I told her i was big on health, she became big on health. I told her i love expensive cars, she started talking about how she suddenly might want one too (ended up contradicting herself at some point on a convo). I told safe sex is important, she constantly mentioned how she's always careful (contradicts her previous statement of how she hates the feeling of condoms)

I think thats enough. She became who she thought id be into.

my story

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?PHPSESSID=211523845842f0029aec5faeafee7508&topic=321313.10#top

[Maxpax2011]

i can agree with the mirroring, as over the weeks she would definitely change her behavior and outlook on life accordingly as i revealed more and more about myself to her.

I told her i found intelligence a great feature, she talked more and more about how she's smart and doing research and a phd. I mentioned how i hate piercings, she stopped wearing it. I told her i like certain foods, she started sending me pics of her eating them. I told her i was big on health, she became big on health. I told her i love expensive cars, she started talking about how she suddenly might want one too (ended up contradicting herself at some point on a convo). I told safe sex is important, she constantly mentioned how she's always careful (contradicts her previous statement of how she hates the feeling of condoms)

I think thats enough. She became who she thought id be into.

my story

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?PHPSESSID=211523845842f0029aec5faeafee7508&topic=321313.10#top

Your right about that, I always used protection when I dated her, and she seemed to be the same way. However I found out after getting to know her that she had unprotected sex with several different partners, even ones she left me for, happened twice during our recycling periods, her daughters Father got her pregnant two months into their relationship so I guess that could have been part of the mirroring too.

[Bo123]

I agree with much of what "Once removed" said.  The difficult part is that we will never really know.  Getting an straight answer out of a BPD is like herding cats.  Be glad your gone from that situation, better things are ahead, I do understand the the wondering though.

[Aiko]

It's really creepy reading some of these threads when you start to think -- wait---are they talking about my ex?  They are all the same in so many ways. Creepy.

[Maxpax2011]

I agree with much of what "Once removed" said.  The difficult part is that we will never really know.  Getting an straight answer out of a BPD is like herding cats.  Be glad your gone from that situation, better things are ahead, I do understand the the wondering though.

It is like a the mystery of the universe, one will never know for sure, but your right, we are free.

[smart_storm26]

Okay this is my personal opinion.

I believe that BPD people do not have a 'true' self,  a point of reference. This is what they lack.

They just live through some personas. Like the 'Sober, sophisticated and classy woman' persona, or the  'happy go lucky... .do not worry' persona or say the 'the drunk spoilt babe' persona. They will cycle through these personas as per their need on whichever persona will make them happy during that time. If you try to wrap your head around this its pointless. Its pointless to investigate on what's her true self. She is disordered because she doesn't have a true self. She just puts up fake faces because she hasn't found her real face. She will start recovering from BPD the day when she will start exploring her true self and make choices based on her true self and not what she feels at that moment

[enlighten me]

As others have said mirroring is a normal thing when dating for nons as well as pwBPD. We all want to give a good impression. I think with pwBPD though its more to do with their unstable sense of self that makes it so pervasive. I believe pwBPD have a self but probably don't like that person so when they meet someone they reinvent themselves to match/ mirror that new person. The further this new identity is from their core self will determine how long this new persona can last. The more effort they have to put in to keeping up this persona the more stress it causes them.

Its only when you read between the lines that you can see their true self. When theyre not impressing you or berating you. I look at it like a wardrobe. We all have different outfits and as our influences change so do these outfits. A suit for work, sports kit, jeans etc. We are not our work suit or our swimming trunks but a mixture of all of these. Deep down though we have our comfy sweats and t-shirt that we always settle down in and that's our core. For a pwBPD they have a multitude of outfits if they try something miles from their comfy core they don't wear it for long and it gets put in the back of the wardrobe.

[MeandThee29]

I agree we all mirror to some extent. It's part of adjusting to people.

Looking back, I was very needy when we met and early in our relationship. I know now that he found that extremely attractive. There were warning signs though. When my relatives visited, he was always jealous of my focus on them. That baffled me. I see them maybe once a year, and he's mad if I respond to something they bring up that doesn't involve him?

Over time with kids and other interests, my focus moved more away from him, and he was very uncomfortable with that. I was finding fulfillment apart from him. We had fights over me going to the gym with oldest, taking the younger one to an evening school event, going to an evening sales party at a friend's house, etc. He wanted me to be the needy woman he married. He would ask me why I needed outside friends and activities when I had him.

After his suicide attempt over a year ago, his demands for attention became impossible at times. He resented anything that took me away from being available when he wanted me to. If I yawned around him, or took one of our young adults along on an errand instead of him, it was problem.

Even separated, he complains about how I don't meet his needs. Really? How does that work many states away? Recently he provided several dates when he wanted to come get some things, and I asked for a better time for me. I didn't tell him why because it involved a church event at my house (he doesn't like them because they didn't "meet his needs" and then a relative visiting that he doesn't like. His response was, "Once again, you aren't meeting my needs." So I told him why, and he finally ended up coming on another date that was inconvenient for me, but at least I didn't have people visiting.

The problem here is that he wants me to be something that I no longer am and something that I shouldn't be. It's strange to see that now, but I'm thankful for the insight.