Found out about her sex partner through our 3 year old

[JNChell]

Yesterday, driving back from town, my S3 started talking about “Zach”. I couldn’t help myself and inquired. I couldn’t help myself even further and contacted her and asked why our Son was already being exposed to other men. It got nasty. I took a big step backwards yesterday, and I hope that there is some support here. I’m feeling really bad.

I am adamant with her about our Son not being exposed to other men in improper ways. i.e. too early, if they’re not going to stick around and so on. From what I’ve witnessed, our Son is having a hard enough time as it is. He’s only 3 and just wants mommy and daddy back together. It’s heartbreaking and infuriating. All of this is a huge punch to the gut, but what about him? What about her D8? Is she really so blind that she can’t see how unhealthy it is to expose the kids to this? Can she really not comprehend that they’ll figure out who these men are and why they’re around? Does she not understand that the kids are learning from us in real time? I’ve been in a state of anger and sadness since finding this out. I’m so sick of her, and so pissed at myself for falling for her.

This could’ve been so much easier if we wouldn’t have had a child together. Please understand that our Son is the best thing in my life. I wouldn’t change one thing that has happened if it meant that he wouldn’t be here, but I currently carry a burden of love/hate that I can’t seem to kick out of the way due to his mother and myself.

I regressed in a big way yesterday. I did not sit with my feelings. I acted on my emotions and I text bombed her. Come to find out, he’s an ex. She’s recycling. This fact alone struck a huge chord with me. Through all of the negative things that I’m feeling, I have been validated in a very big way. SHE’S RECYCLING. As much as the fact of her laying with another hurts, the act in itself has given me assurance. I see the behavior from the outside looking in now.

Her responses were teenager-like. “Lmfao” and the like. She told me that our Son had been around him once, months ago. We split, months ago. Just over 4 to be exact. I dissected her yesterday with my words and have likely made a big mistake in doing so. Time will tell. Our Son wouldn’t stop talking about “Zach”. He’s big and strong. He’s so cool. He comes over and plays Mario. One time? What the heck ever. How can she not see how this can be damaging to the kids? I believe that her D8 is going to have issues with this for sure. My ex was running away and going back to her ex-husband just like she did with me. Always with other men in the mix. I don’t think that I’m embellishing when I say that D8 has a 1000 yard stare when I’ve seen her since the split. As far as I know, she’s still doing very well in school and is very active in extracurricular activities, which is a good thing, but I know what I saw. Maybe her expression was due to being in my presence. Her mom once made a comment that D8 likes being at her house now that I’m gone. That one hurt a lot. I tried so hard to be a positive male figure to her without being an authorative father-like person to her. She has a father. I just wanted to learn how to be what I could be for her. I tried, but now she’s no longer in my life and I miss her.

The Sun is rising and I’m watching our Son sleep. He’s innocent and fresh to the World, and I’m worried about him. I thought that the hard stuff died with my parents. My thoughts were ignorant. I believe in energy as opposed to a biblical heaven. That energy is still here, and it’s up to me to route it. Friends, I’m tired of feeling this way and I need help with it. I love things that are incapable of loving me back. That’s on me. It hurts to realize that. It hurts to realize my own dysfunction. It hurts to realize that my dysfunction has an effect on our Son in this roundabout way. I’m scared of failing him.

[Mutt]

Hi JNChell,

I’m sorry that you’re son is going through this. It’s definitely not as simple when you have kids in the mix, I’ve been where you are and the emotions can reach a very high peak with anger, anxiety, worry  there’s nothing more important to me than my kids.

I recall being in court clerks office filing for shared custody and explaining something similar to her that was going on with my exuBPDw exposed her fb to the kids less than a month before we separated. I was Angers and I was devastated at what the court clerk said when it comes to the r/s’s mom had he could be a cocaine user it doesn’t matter. Thinking about it today I’m sure that I wasn’t the first anger father in her office.

Kids are resilient and fortunately he’s not a teenager he’s likely not going to remember this but if he was teenager it would be a lot more difficult.

I also understand the  and lmao take screen shots of texts and save them if you need it for court a huddle wouldn’t like that response I used to angry at those responses because it felt like it was getting thrown in my face BPD is emotional arrested development of the young age of a child she has the same emotional maturity as your S3. I like how Skip said the world is full of emotionally immaturity it’s learning to live beside emotionally immature people[/b]

Don’t be hard on yourself about texting her a pwBPD know how to push your buttons and sometimes they’ll push them all at the same time. I think that she’s trying to just that with you now. I like this d Japanese proverb “Fall down 7 get up 8” just back up on the horse.

Your S3 is lucky to have you my advice to you is sorry about you and taking really good care of yourself so that you can  be a good example for him ( you have that in spades ) Later on when he’s older he’ll see the things that doesn’t make sense about mom but he’ll he had an emotionally stable parent that can offer him stability and routine for him. If you don’t have shared custody or full custody I’d suggest that you get a court order.

[zachira]

I am so sorry that you are suffering knowing that your child may get hurt. The most important thing is that your ex does not have a whole series of boyfriends that your child gets attached to, and then has his heart broken. Sometimes, an ex who is not a biological parent will stay in the life of the child because there is a loving bond with the child.

[JNChell]

zachira, thank you. I have to admit that your screen name is ironic.   What you conveyed is a huge worry. I know that she was seeing several different men while married. What I don’t know is how many of them were around her daughter. An honest answer from her isn’t possible, and she’s very good at keeping her shady business under wraps. I met my ex’s daughter after dating her for only three months. I took her lead on everything, but looking back, three months was way too soon.

I’m now convinced that my ex is not able to be alone to work on herself. She now has 2 kids by 2 different fathers. Will there be a third? Who the hell knows. I’m stressed beyond comfort. I’m in the fixer mode of pleading with her. I’m not at the moment, but it took place in the text bombing last night. Why in the hell cant we crack these people with love and logic? Why can’t they f*****g see us?

[zachira]

It is so frustrating to have to be involved with someone who does not care about anybody's feelings but their own, and is the parent of your child. You can make a big difference by spending as much quality time with your son as possible, and surrounding your son with people who treat him with respect and kindness. Children who survive dysfunctional families and become healthy adults almost always have people around them in childhood who did treat them with love and kindness. I come from a very dysfunctional family, and I can tell you that the aunts, uncles, friends, and neighbors that gave me the love and respect all children deserve made a big difference. Sometimes, it was just a few minutes of their time, in which they gave me their undivided attention.
Let us know how we can help! I respect you for caring about your son and wanting what is best for him.

[JNChell]

He has that zachira. I’m glad you brought that up. He has family and men here. He’s treated well and it reflects with his sweetness.

[Skip]

I regressed in a big way yesterday. I did not sit with my feelings. I acted on my emotions and I text bombed her. Come to find out, he’s an ex. She’s recycling. This fact alone struck a huge chord with me. Through all of the negative things that I’m feeling, I have been validated in a very big way. ... //... I dissected her yesterday with my words and have likely made a big mistake in doing so.

Our Son wouldn’t stop talking about “Zach”. He’s big and strong. He’s so cool. He comes over and plays Mario.  

He’s only 3 and just wants mommy and daddy back together. It’s heartbreaking and infuriating. All of this is a huge punch to the gut, but what about him? What about her D8? Is she really so blind that she can’t see how unhealthy it is to expose the kids to this? Can she really not comprehend that they’ll figure out who these men are and why they’re around?

I'm going to shake the tree a little bit, JNChell. Not as criticism. More like pushing you out of the way of a speeding train.

1. You have every reason to be resentful and hurt. True.
2. Going off the rails like you did threatens your relationship with your child.

I know that second sentence is a stinger, but better to sting a little this afternoon than for you to blindly start down the path of setting yourself up for a parental alienation move by your ex... .and realizinng when it is too late. I know you don't want that.

Radical acceptance. Letting go of the reality "you hope for" and accepting the reality that is.

The reality.

Your son wants mommy and daddy to get along. You know that. If one of you force him to chose, he will. Your son speaks freely and openly. He likes Zach. He will likely be told to not talk about zach, now. The court won't let you dictate whether 4 month is appropriate or inappropriate behavior. Remember, many of the people in family court move in gang members or drug dealers when the relationship breaks up. The bar is not very high. She won't let you dictate whether 4 months is appropriate or inappropriate. She has a fragile ego, she feels higher high and lower lows, and she reacts to the feelings.

I'm not saying you should like or forgive or condone her for introducing the kids to another man. I'm saying that she when you attack her, she will retaliate 2-3x.

Gotta stay cool man.

More information https://bpdfamily.com/pdfs/stacer.pdf

Research shows that constant and chronic conflict between the parents negatively impacts the children. If the parents believe they can get along with each other after the couple of years after the breakup, they may want to relax the rules somewhat. At the first sign of tension or conflict however, they should immediately go back to following the rules which are recommended When parents split-up, the children want to be able to still be with and freely love both of their parents. They want to feel loved by both of their parents too. Children will do anything to please their parents. A child’s primary attachment and sense of security has been to have both parents love. We are all like vulnerable animals, because our “survival instinct" keeps us alive. While in the womb and until we were about six years old, we all learned to read our parent’s looks and feelings of anger, nervousness and joy. As babies, we learned to read our parent’s vibes.  All children know subconsciously when their parents are upset and when they are feeling good.

[Harri]

What a great link!  I really like the way it talks about how the kids can read the emotions of the parents even at early ages and are very aware of tension, facial expression in addition to parental emotions.

Is there a similar article that is not specific to high conflict divorces?  I wish we could offer the same type of information to many of the non parents on this board who are fighting to help their kids.  So many non parents here on these boards think the children are not affected by the conflict if it is not directed towards them etc.  This sort of information is so valuable for them to have as they try to navigate such difficult relationships and decide what is best for the kids.

Sorry for the high-jack.  Couldn't resist.

[JNChell]

Thanks, Skip. It’s not a stinger, it’s the truth. All I did was give her control and let her know that I’m still emotionally vulnerable to her. I know that what I’m about to say is nonsense, but I just wish I possessed what is necessary to help her. It hurts to see the mother of our child go through her life like this. I’m fairly certain that I’m painted as black as I am because I know her better than anyone ever has. I’m here. Her family dynamic is largely that of a man hating culture. Men are always the problem for the women in her family. One of the first  ’s was on our first date. She told me that all of the women in her family choose bad men. That should’ve been a big indicator to me that I would eventually become one of these “bad men”. Even if she had to fabricate it. Every time her sister visited she would always bash her husband. It was the first thing out of her mouth every time.

I’m sorry. This turned into a rant. I’m just laying here wondering when and if I’ll ever be able to be indifferent to her. Wondering if I’ll ever be able to figure how to stop causing my own roadblocks to healing. I know I’m not the only one. We’re all here for this stuff, but it still gets awful lonely. It’s like they possess this big, dark secret and unriddling that secret is done at our demise. An unrelenting punishment is released on us for trying to intervene. For attempting to get them to see their true selves and heal. I’ve done many things wrong with her, but my intentions were always from a place of love and care. I’m not sure if I’ll ever be able to extend myself to someone in that way again.

[Skip]

Thanks, Skip. It’s not a stinger, it’s the truth. All I did was give her control and let her know that I’m still emotionally vulnerable to her. I know that what I’m about to say is nonsense, but I just wish I possessed what is necessary to help her.

This is about you and her. That needs to be priority two right now (yes that's hard).

How would you characterize what you did in terms of how it will play out for your son and you?

[JNChell]

Skip, good question. I believe I involved a great deal of risk between our Son and me. If she chose to, she could use it as an excuse to leverage me with him. I sensed a bit of shame in her from the way her defensiveness came across. I could be wrong, but I think she knows it was wrong to expose our Son to this guy. At least I hope so. I know they tend to “feel bad later” about things. That’s one thing about her, though. The dust never seems to settle in her life. When I met her she told me that her marriage was over and had been for a long time even though they were still legally bound. No baggage. This was a huge lie. He was not happy. Texting rants and angry phone calls. I just took it as him being the crazy, abusive ex that she had portrayed him to be. She never has things squared away before moving on to something else. There is always left over baggage on her trail of destruction.

If anything, Skip, I think she’ll begin to lose interest in him as he gets older and starts to form his independence. Her kids are largely show pieces for her for her public and social media image. I don’t know how D8 will fare. Her dad is a helicopter parent that is controlled by his mother, and my ex has pretty bad traits. As far as our Son is concerned, I’m doing everything I can to make sure he has a strong sense of self. I allow him to have reasonable “no’s” and make reasonable decisions for himself at his age. His mom plays dress up with him and forces her affinity for sci-fy, video games and fantasy on him. I’m not knocking the genres, I enjoy them myself minus the gaming, but I believe that she has found some kind of false reality in it all. She’s very wrapped up in it.

Anyway, back on point. You’re absolutely right. I used poor judgment and acted on impulse. I fully accept this. I didn’t let the anxiety pass and think it through. There could’ve been a negative outcome for our Son and myself. Who’s to say that when I go to pick him from daycare on Friday, that he won’t be there. If she starts down that path then we’ll let FC intervene. If I’m forced to take it to that level because she chooses to weaponize our child, the gloves come off.

[Skip]

Come here before you act. Write it on the fridge.My Name in Chell
I am Raw
Log into bpdfamily Before ActingThe members of this board are rock solid on this stuff.

[livednlearned]

JNChell,

That you recognize you regressed, or were triggered -- that's big. Taking responsibility means you can learn.

Taking responsibility is different than blaming yourself. The former is about mining the experience for clues as to what you can do different next time. The latter is just a different way to be mad at someone, in this case, you.  

There are going to be a lot of men in your son's life, based on the pattern you describe.

Next time your son says a dude is cool and big, what are you going to do or say?

You are the only one who is going to be there consistently. Your son will learn this, through action and over time.

If your situation is anything like others here, then your biggest threat is not new people, it's parental alienation. If you are lining up your ducks for legal action, it's a good idea to also put effort into understanding how to counteract alienation techniques.

The legal battle is one battle. The other is for the hearts and minds of our kids. You can win the legal and lose the other.

When your son is with mom and this new guy, it's possible he feels safer than when it's just mom and him. Sounds like the new guy is making an effort to connect.

When your son is with you, he will be trying to feel safe, too. The stuff you learn about parental alienation and how to raise an emotionally resilient (especially when one parent has BPD), will help you there.

We can walk with you.

None of this is intuitive. It has to be learned. And it takes patience and practice.

LnL

[JNChell]

I’ll probably say something along the lines of “that’s nice”, and then try to redirect. The thought of of our Son living with these patterns of her’s turns my stomach. I’m afraid that if I make the move to pursue FC that her enablers and flying monkeys will go to work on our Son, and I’ll slowly be made out to be a villain in his mind. I’m certain that this has already happened with her D8 and that hurts bad enough. If they brainwash our Son, I don’t know how I’d handle that. It would be devastating. D8’s dad didn’t get treatment like that. I know that there was some smearing and occasional FC threats, but he never called her like I made the mistake of doing. He called her a wh**e several times, but never made her feel threatened with an armchair diagnosis. It was such a mistake to do that. Perhaps if I had try to learn the tools to improve the relationship, we’d still have our family together and the kids wouldn’t be getting exposed to this self-centered and toxic behavior. On the other hand, I’m actually able parent our Son now. He doesn’t get yelled at when he’s with me. She has a tendency to get loud with the kids. I can’t imagine how loud it gets now that I’m no longer there to squash it.

[Skip]

her enablers and flying monkeys will go to work on our Son, and I’ll slowly be made out to be a villain in his mind. I’m certain that this has already happened with her D8 and that hurts bad enough. If they brainwash our... .

Please dash this thought about flying monkeys - its not going to help you. There is a sweet little boy out there and people will come out of the woodwork to protect him from any threats - sisters, mothers, aunts, daycare, pastor, neighbors, her dates, her boss... .everyone.

They can be very well meaning and caring people. If you trip the wrong wire, they will line up to protect him from you. It's human nature.

Don't make them the enemy in your mind. They are your son's world. You need to embrace these people as best you can. Win them over as best you can.

I’ll probably say something along the lines of “that’s nice”, and then try to redirect.

Is that how you would react if he had a new best friend? He was sharing and open. Embrace that.  Likely after this conflict, your wife will be saying "don't tell daddy". You don't want to be give the vibe, "don't tell daddy.

Print this out. Set it aside so you can read it when you have time.

Ju-­jitsu Parenting: Fighting Back from the Down Position
C.A. Childress, Psy.D. (2013)

As LNL says, there are two battlefields and you have to win both. You have to win the hearts and minds of your kids and hopefully their trusted circle (teachers, daycare, physicians, pastor and hopefully family).

[zachira]

JNChell, I know this may be a little off topic. I am responding to your comment about your ex coming from a man hating culture. I am a woman, and I avoid women who expect their man to worship them, who denigrate men, who refuse to recognize that there are differences between the sexes, and who cannot see many of the positive characteristics that men contribute to the world. Please surround your son with women that see men in a positive light. For young boys and men it is important: to be proud of being a man, to be with women that love men for their masculine strengths, and to know how to support a woman to be her best self.

[livednlearned]

Perhaps if I had try to learn the tools to improve the relationship

The tools and skills you could've learned during the relationship will matter just as much in the coparenting stage. That's when I landed here, and learning the skills has changed my life, and my son's.

Have you taken a look at High Conflict Couple by Alan Fruzetti? It's excellent. It really helps you skill up for those times when your emotions start running hot.

The High Conflict Couple Author: Alan E. Fruzzetti, PhD Publisher: New Harbinger Publications; 1 edition (December 3, 2006) Paperback: 190 pages ISBN-10: 157224450X ISBN-13: 978-1572244504

The skills you learn will endear your son to you even more.

These might be things you didn't learn as a kid. They work, and they take lots of practice.

I remember seeing your post over on the Parent/Sibling board about battling with alcohol. How are things going with that? I admire you for taking steps to look under that hood. It takes a lot of courage. It's never easy when we let go of things that helped us cope, especially when we experience emotional crisis.

[JNChell]

zachira, thank you for this insight. I really appreciate it and agree with what you said. It was hard being a man in my last 2 relationships. It was very hurtful to see our Son’s mother take to FB and post man hating memes about me when she would be upset with me. I felt powerless to her smearing. The passive-aggressive behavior made me feel crazy. When I would complain to her about putting our business out in public like that, she would lie and say it wasn’t about me and that nobody reads her page anyway. Untrue. She had some of my real life friends as FB friends. They’ve told me that they could tell something was up by her behavior on FB. Out of her 450 person friends list, I’ve met like 2 or 3 actual friends, if you can call them that. She talks poorly about everyone behind their back. She would get hostile when I would point this out, too. She uses FB as a weapon. She’s even publicly attacked her own sister on there. It appears that I’ve gone into another rant.  

I will do my very best to make sure that my Son is surrounded by healthy women. He definitely isn’t with his mother’s female family dynamic and it’s very bothersome. She had an uncle that was a really good guy that made huge sacrifices. Her aunt had cheated on him and got pregnant. He forgave her and raised the child as his own. My ex’s mom ended up getting pregnant by the same guy that her aunt had the affair with.   That should’ve been a big indicator of what kind of dysfunction I was getting involved with. Anyway, when her uncle passed away from a stroke, she made a comment stating that he was the only decent male figure in her life. I tried to sympathize, but that comment really hurt me.

I should probably cut this short since this really isn’t the right board for this, but thank you so much for your understanding and kind words. It means a lot.

[JNChell]

Thanks L&L! I’ll add it to the list. I’ve been ordering books faster than I can read them! 

[JNChell]

L&L, I’ve been slipping back into self medication lately. Today is a new day, and after what transpired over the weekend, I’m done with it. A lot of members say to abstain during detachment and they’re right. It doesn’t help anything. I had started back in the gym and was eating very well and enjoying the way I was feeling and the energy I had. I slipped up. So it’s back to the drawing board. Thanks for asking.