Still In the Weeds

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

Hi everyone.  I am heartened that this space exists.  

My wife has struggled with uncontrollable rage and prescription substance abuse for our 17 year relationship.  When her behaviors reached a tipping point - abandonment, emotional abuse of the children, addiction, etc - her family and I staged an intervention in an attempt to get her to address her spiraling conditions.  She initially agreed to go to a treatment facility, but instead ran away to a boyfriend's home in another state before checking in.

In the time since the intervention, I was introduced to Stop Walking on Eggshells - which changed my life - and she was diagnosed with bipolar, borderline, narcissistic, anosognosia, and stimulant abuse issues.

I filed for divorce 6 months ago in order to formally separate her from my children and myself.  Since then, she has been in and out of therapy, in and out of mediation, in and out of (limited) self-awareness, and in general has been delaying the divorce, escalating her threats (suicide, violence), gaslighting the children, wasting immense amounts of money on legal fees and filling our lives with constant stress.

I want her to face her conditions.  I want her to get treatment and be able to co-parent my two boys.  I have essentially been a single father for the past 2 years, so I do not need her help, but she is their mother and they deserve a better version of her in their lives.  I had to put my career on hold to deal with her behaviors.  No one can get her to accept her conditions.  She will buy kits to beat drug tests, lie about bringing the children around her boyfriends to avoid court scrutiny, and work overtime to hide her behaviors and run away from consequences.  

The legal system has been incredibly slow to help protect my kids.  If they don't see blood, they are afraid to enforce consequences.  The abuse is emotional, sinister, gaslighting, eroding their confidence in reality and playing on their feelings.  The court has mandated her back into therapy, random drug testing, and a full custody evaluation.  Will she be able lie, cheat, and steal to avoid being exposed once more?  Or will she not be able to fool the psychiatrists and psychological tests?  

I suppressed her abuse of me for 17 years and now that I have a deeper understanding of the predictability of the chaos, I cannot bear to imagine my children growing up continuing to live in fear.  I imagine many of you have gone through similar situations.  Before reading SWOE, I thought I might be the only one.  I am desperate to imagine I am not throwing good hope after bad.

Thanks for listening.  I'm not sure how anyone would get through exposure to this without expert help from peers and professionals!

[Chip and Charge]

Hi everyone.  I am heartened that this space exists.  

My wife has struggled with uncontrollable rage and prescription substance abuse for our 17 year relationship.  When her behaviors reached a tipping point - abandonment, emotional abuse of the children, addiction, etc - her family and I staged an intervention in an attempt to get her to address her spiraling conditions.  She initially agreed to go to a treatment facility, but instead ran away to a boyfriend's home in another state before checking in.

In the time since the intervention, I was introduced to Stop Walking on Eggshells - which changed my life - and she was diagnosed with bipolar, borderline, narcissistic, anosognosia, and stimulant abuse issues.

I filed for divorce 6 months ago in order to formally separate her from my children and myself.  Since then, she has been in and out of therapy, in and out of mediation, in and out of (limited) self-awareness, and in general has been delaying the divorce, escalating her threats (suicide, violence), gaslighting the children, wasting immense amounts of money on legal fees and filling our lives with constant stress.

I want her to face her conditions.  I want her to get treatment and be able to co-parent my two boys.  I have essentially been a single father for the past 2 years, so I do not need her help, but she is their mother and they deserve a better version of her in their lives.  I had to put my career on hold to deal with her behaviors.  No one can get her to accept her conditions.  She will buy kits to beat drug tests, lie about bringing the children around her boyfriends to avoid court scrutiny, and work overtime to hide her behaviors and run away from consequences.  

The legal system has been incredibly slow to help protect my kids.  If they don't see blood, they are afraid to enforce consequences.  The abuse is emotional, sinister, gaslighting, eroding their confidence in reality and playing on their feelings.  The court has mandated her back into therapy, random drug testing, and a full custody evaluation.  Will she be able lie, cheat, and steal to avoid being exposed once more?  Or will she not be able to fool the psychiatrists and psychological tests?  

I suppressed her abuse of me for 17 years and now that I have a deeper understanding of the predictability of the chaos, I cannot bear to imagine my children growing up continuing to live in fear.  I imagine many of you have gone through similar situations.  Before reading SWOE, I thought I might be the only one.  I am desperate to imagine I am not throwing good hope after bad.

Thanks for listening.  I'm not sure how anyone would get through exposure to this without expert help from peers and professionals!

[zachira]

I am sorry that you have to deal with all this pain with your ex, especially since it hurts to see your children involved. Keep on being the best father you can be to your children, like you are doing now. Children from dysfunctional families often do well in life because they had enough support from healthy people that the negatives do not affect them as much. Your ex may eventually have little or no contact with her children, and you may want to support that. Having parents that are unpredictable (unsafe), and in and out of children's lives, is very destabilizing for children. I realize you have to go along with what the Courts decide. Let us know how we can help!

[Chip and Charge]

Thank you for the encouragement!  Honestly after scrolling through the board, I am simultaneously inspired by the community support - and speechless at the breadth and depth of anguish BPD can levy on our families.  I hope I can give back some support from my experiences, but I am focused and ready to learn from this group, and do anything I can to protect my kids from further emotional damage.

[livednlearned]

Hi Chip and Charge,

Welcome and hello. I'm sorry for what brings you here and glad you found the site.

What's the current custody arrangement? How old are the kids?

Another good book to add to your library is Splitting: Protecting Yourself Divorcing from a BPD/NPD Spouse by Bill Eddy, a former social worker who became a family law attorney. He has another book that I found was lifechanging when it came to my son: Don't Alienate the Kids: Raising Emotionally Resilient Kids.

Like your ex, mine is also bipolar/BPD with narcissistic traits, plus substance abuse (alcohol, prescription drugs). I'm so sorry that you have to experience that combination of mental illness  

Tho the court system does move slowly, the fact that court is mandating so many things on her behalf is a good sign, at least in terms of protecting the kids. Court will not likely be able to get her to become healthy without her commitment, sadly.

How are your kids doing? Are they in therapy?

Do you have a counselor?

These are not just divorces, they are the hardest ones.

We're here to walk with you on this path. You're not alone.

[Chip and Charge]

Thank you for the kind words.  I still can't believe there's a whole community of people like me here. 

My boys are 13 and 7.  The court ordered us to maintain the schedule that was mediated and agreed to when my BPD made her short-lived progress in therapy, following her busted intervention.  We had agreed the kids should maintain "status quo" - which meant I have them for 80% of the time.  I was feeling a generous and stunned at some of her self-aware statements initially in mediation so I even made allowances in the schedule to allow for an overnight here and there.  Rookie mistake... .

She has now threatened litigation against her psychiatrist during that time, who had diagnosed her with BP, ADHD, and stimulant abuse under his clinical care for 5 months.  He completely caved to her threat and would not provide his notes to the court nor comment on her - even under subpoena.  She had told him she wanted to stop taking her Lamictal right before our hearing, and so he allowed that and wrote R/O on her patient-facing medical records.  That's all my BPD needed to perpetuate her distortion - she's not sick and I'm the crazy one.

But not the only crazy one - she's threatening litigation against her former therapist now as well.  He won't falter, however.  He is the boys' therapist as well, and was our family mediator.  He is steeped in BPD experience and continues to amaze me by telling me she's not the worst he's seen.  But my BPD is working overtime now to discredit him, tie him up in the legal system, even though she was voluntarily under his clinical care for 4 months.

I just purchased Splitting and am starting it tonight!  I hope it's not too late.

I will definitely pick up the Don't Alienate book as well, thank you.

My kids are struggling.  My eldest is learning new coping mechanisms and understands that his mom is not well and needs to get better.  But he has been threatened not to tell anyone what she says to him, not to trust his therapist, not to trust me, and my BPD even threatened suicide to him if he didn't comply with what she wanted him to do.  13 years old, to hear that; he is compromised, to say the least.  My youngest is deeply confused from all the gaslighting/mixed messaging, and is acting out displaying black & white thinking, highly negative thoughts, and defiance.  They are both in therapy but with something newly traumatic happening every 2-3 days, treating them is like a moving target.

I want to have faith that the custody evaluator won't be fleeced, that the psychological testing will actually detect her psychosis (and she can't cheat it somehow), and that the courts will protect the children from emotional abuse.  I have 30 people on my collateral list, even all her negative advocates - go ahead and talk to everybody to uncover the truth.  But I am way past "fool me twice" territory and I am already very cynical about the outside world's ability to support me and my kids against her.  I'm trying to remain hopeful.  I have limitless energy to protect my boys from her disorder and delusion but I wish sometimes it didn't have to seem just short of impossible.

[ForeverDad]

I want her to face her conditions.  I want her to get treatment and be able to co-parent my two boys... .she is their mother and they deserve a better version of her in their lives... .

Sadly, these wishes and hopes aren't practical.  If she hasn't substantively improved in the years with you and since, you have no basis for expecting change.  Deal with what is, anything else can be self-sabotaging.  If the surprising happens and she does get solidly on the path toward recovery, then you can ponder being lenient with the parenting order.  Until then, stick to what works for you and the kids.

[livednlearned]

My kids are struggling.  My eldest is learning new coping mechanisms and understands that his mom is not well and needs to get better.  But he has been threatened not to tell anyone what she says to him, not to trust his therapist, not to trust me, and my BPD even threatened suicide to him if he didn't comply with what she wanted him to do.  13 years old, to hear that; he is compromised, to say the least.  My youngest is deeply confused from all the gaslighting/mixed messaging, and is acting out displaying black & white thinking, highly negative thoughts, and defiance.  They are both in therapy but with something newly traumatic happening every 2-3 days, treating them is like a moving target.

I feel for you. There is nothing like the pain of watching your kids get ripped apart by a parent suffering from a PD. The Don't Alienate the Kids book will help you model flexible thinking. A lot of this stuff is not intuitive and must be learned. Other super important concepts to learn now, and quickly: validating their feelings. I found the Lundstrom's I Don't Have to Make Things All Better and their section on validating questions to be profound. Our kids have a parent who distorts not just the truth, but their emotional reality. Validating how they feel is like watering parched soil -- BPD parents have an above average need for validation and an above average deficit in providing it. Your kids will be starved for it, so provide lots, and then even more.

Another good book is Divorce Poison by Richard Warshak. It will amaze you how some of the scenarios are identical to what you experience with your kids and the BPD parent. There will be a battle for the hearts and minds of your kids, and Warshak's book is full of real tips that work, including actual phrases you can use. My ex really scrambled my son's brain when it came to secrets, privacy, lies, and Warshak gives you good pointers on how to help your kids figure out how to tell the difference. You'll need that because otherwise their mom will destroy their ability to protect themselves.

I want to have faith that the custody evaluator won't be fleeced, that the psychological testing will actually detect her psychosis (and she can't cheat it somehow),

Do you know what kind of forensic evaluation will be administered? Many people here have recommended the MMPI-2, which must be administered by a forensic psyhiatrist who is trained in it. There is another one specifically for personality disorders. The PPI? I haven't seen that one mentioned as much but it's been used by some members here.

If you haven't picked someone yet, find three that are highly respected (they should be forensic, if possible) and let her choose which one.

A lot of times, the court will not know what BPD means in terms of the kids. So you'll need an expert witness to testify on how untreated BPD can impair a child's healthy development.

If you don't get a diagnosis, it's not the end of the world. Eddy even suggests that the non-BPD parent focus on patterns of behavior and not on diagnoses.

I have limitless energy to protect my boys from her disorder and delusion but I wish sometimes it didn't have to seem just short of impossible.

I'm so sorry you have to experience this. I had a good judge, a good lawyer, and lots of good third-party professionals involved in my case. Even with that, it took many years to get full custody. It's a slow, expensive process and you just have to chip away at things.

This place was a life changing source of support for me. I'm glad you found the site and hope it makes a difference in your life, and helps you raise emotionally resilient kids.

[Chip and Charge]

Wonderful, practical advice.  THANK YOU.  I will keep reading and put the guidance to use.  The fact that people take the time again and again to help guide newcomers here is a testament to the quality of humanity gathered in these virtual rooms.  We've all been through or are going through something traumatic that bonds us together, and I too have an overwhelming urge to help others once I feel my experience and constitution is strong enough to do so.

[Chip and Charge]

Do you know what kind of forensic evaluation will be administered? Many people here have recommended the MMPI-2, which must be administered by a forensic psyhiatrist who is trained in it. There is another one specifically for personality disorders. The PPI? I haven't seen that one mentioned as much but it's been used by some members here.

I already did the testing on my part, I believe it was the MMPI-2 - something like 575 questions.  Then there was another one that was 175 questions or so.  I still don't understand how it can't be gamed.  For those of us who are thinking clearly and answer honestly, there really is very little ambiguity in the line of questioning.  So why couldn't a highly motivated and very intelligent BPD (many of them are) just answer what they want other people to think they think?  It's a fascinating topic and I do hope it can weed out the expert manipulators.

[ForeverDad]

An experienced custody evaluator with a solid reputation can be a perceptive life saver, whereas a gullible or biased evaluator with little experience and training can be disastrous.

[livednlearned]

So why couldn't a highly motivated and very intelligent BPD (many of them are) just answer what they want other people to think they think?  

What could happen is that her results say respondent appears to be "presenting falsely," or something like that. Meaning, given the statistical odds of how your ex responds, she did not present within the percentage of people who respond truthfully. Like all psyche instruments, it's a bit controversial. But when it's administered by an experienced practitioner, he or she will be able to compare the results to the enormous body of empirical research done already with this instrument, and say whether or not the person's answers appear to be within the range of truthful. A lot of those questions are repeating on the same dimension, phrased in slightly different ways, too. It's hard for someone to know how ALL of the questions are being scored, although you can sometimes see patterns. So if she answers the same way for the same 20 questions scoring on the same dimension, that probably means she is skewing her answers and if she does that enough, the test will pick that up in the stats.

That, and the expert will have other information to go on, I'm assuming. So if the response is "presenting falsely," the shrink might conclude, along with other info, that more testing is needed, or the same one needs to be administered again, or who knows. Maybe during the testing, the shrink notices signs of psychosis (showing psychosis happened to my ex, in court. It can happen, especially under high stress).

Plus, lucky for you, the court seems to have her number because the assessments are mandatory. And someone is on their game because they went right to the MMPI-2. Not all courts do that. My ex had a mandatory psyche eval and it was squishy as could be. Two 2-hr sessions with a shrink who just wrote a report. The strongest language in the report was that ex could not comprehend the emotional lives of significant women in his life and appeared to be misogynistic, and that a personality disorder could not be ruled out.

All of these things add up to data points that then get shared in court like a story that a good litigator will tell on your behalf. Even if she does not come away with a dx, over time her behavior under the shiny light of court will start to falter. She'll obstruct and stonewall and flip her middle finger to court to spite any authority she senses coming from you, and by proxy, the court.

You, on the other hand, will start to rise above the conflict, will follow the orders to a T, and over and over again will do what's right for the kids -- this is second-nature to you. Not her. Hopefully you'll start to see a tendency for court to see the nuttery and rule in your favor. That makes it easier to see the judge as an ally, someone with whom you are presenting solutions (with consequences for non-compliance), which is something your ex cannot do. She has spent her whole life complaining and venting, and will have a hard time proposing solutions.

One thing that happened in my case -- the judge scolded me a lot in court. But then he would rule in my favor. It was so confusing! My ex stonewalled on giving the car title to me, but then when we ended up in court about it, I got the lecture on how the DMV works. I learned later (when my ex tried to appeal) that the reason for this is that signs of favoritism can be used to overturn a ruling. My appellate lawyer said that the judge was probably making sure that in the transcript, there was no appearance of favoritism. My ex was a former trial attorney who represented himself, and I think the judge suspected our case would end up in appeals.

Just wanted to share that in case you get your knuckles rapped in court. Pay more attention to whether you got a favorable ruling. You might not get everything you want, but you want to be sure that you got the bigger slice of pie.

And ask for more than you want so that the judge can let your ex feel like she got something.

Hopefully one day you'll be on this board sharing the same advice, with your own twist

[Chip and Charge]

An experienced custody evaluator with a solid reputation can be a perceptive life saver, whereas a gullible or biased evaluator with little experience and training can be disastrous.

That's what I figured - my evaluator seems experienced and was recommended directly by my attorney, but the process is so slow and I'm sure she will try to remain as opaque and neutral as long as possible.  I want to get through everything yesterday and provide the court information to affect harsher behavioral stipulations on my BPD that will lift some of the burden on my kids.  I lived 17 years ceding control to irrationality, and finally making the hard decisions feels like I should be regaining some of that control.  Being mired in the gears of the legal system can certainly put a damper on that feeling though.

[Chip and Charge]

Hopefully one day you'll be on this board sharing the same advice, with your own twist

Great insight and experience, thank you.   I pray the testing is sound.  I pray the evaluator is competent.  This community is one of only places I feel I can safely and fully voice my concerns about the staggering high-level manipulation skills of my BPD.  Replacing hair/urine samples to "beat" drug tests, threatening doctors and lawyers to get them to compromise their licenses to protect her, knowing exactly what emotional buttons to press for each individual in attempts to distort them into her alternate reality... .it sounds fantastical.  But it's just life with a BPD on the run, desperate to avoid exposure and to avoid facing their deepest fear that they are actually in need of treatment.

Anosognosia is my learned term of the week, and I am desperate for that bubble to burst, for the veil to be lifted, for the alternate reality to blip out of existence.  Plan B is learning to cope and manage if it doesn't.  But Plan A would be so much healthier for everyone involved, including her.