Dating site for NONs

[Depression = 72% of members]

So I'm ready to get back in the dating game now.  The heart and depth of character of many of the NONs I've found on this board has made me wonder if there is a dedicated dating site for people who identify as NONs?  Is this a good idea, or not?

[Dargumin]

So I'm ready to get back in the dating game now.  The heart and depth of character of many of the NONs I've found on this board has made me wonder if there is a dedicated dating site for people who identify as NONs?  Is this a good idea, or not?

[ArleighBurke]

Isn't EVERY dating site aimed at "nons"? I mean, there are no BPD ONLY dating sites I know of... .

How would you "prove" you're a non?

[Dargumin]

Isn't EVERY dating site aimed at "nons"? I mean, there are no BPD ONLY dating sites I know of... .

How would you "prove" you're a non?

Sorry, I wasn't very clear.  I mean NON's that have experienced PD relationships.  I feel that those of us that have experienced a PD relationship have undertaken far more introspection and personal growth than people that haven't, and meeting someone else that has done serious introspection and growth appeals to me.

[ArleighBurke]

I have had lots of dates over the last year (I’m 40) - probably around 60 first dates. 95% of women I meet have come out of a long term (10+yr) relationship. There are definitely 2 kinds of women – those who have learnt from it, have gone through the introspect stage, grown, used it to develop themselves and have a clear focus on what they now want in life and how they view and respect themselves – and those who haven’t. It is easy to tell the difference.

[Dargumin]

I have had lots of dates over the last year (I’m 40) - probably around 60 first dates. 95% of women I meet have come out of a long term (10+yr) relationship. There are definitely 2 kinds of women – those who have learnt from it, have gone through the introspect stage, grown, used it to develop themselves and have a clear focus on what they now want in life and how they view and respect themselves – and those who haven’t. It is easy to tell the difference.

Wow, 60 dates in one year.  That sounds exhausting!  I've never done online dating before,  I've just gone with people I've met through the course of my life, but that has proven a poor way to meet suitable people it seems.   My BPD ex had no relationship lasting longer than 2 years.  I'm 35 and interested to date women aged 25-30, I was thinking to blackball any women that hand't been in at least a 3 year relationship as it feels like a red flag.  Do you think that would be fair for that age range?   

[Sunfl0wer]

Sorry, I wasn't very clear.  I mean NON's that have experienced PD relationships.  I feel that those of us that have experienced a PD relationship have undertaken far more introspection and personal growth than people that haven't, and meeting someone else that has done serious introspection and growth appeals to me.

I would certainly prefer that the next man that I meet that we are not bonding over our past relationship with our exs.

I feel that is part of the reason I ended up with my partner with NPD/BPD traits... .because HE was exiting a relationship (was recently divorced) with a woman uBPD.  I felt badly for him and was thinking it was an ok thing to support him through this.  He seemed like such a good man for all that he had put up with.

However, simply being a “victim” does not a good man make.

He was used to behaving out a certain dysfunctional dynamic.  I assumed he learned all that from her. (Me naively participating in drama triangle.) So I held HER responsible for their poor dynamic and felt he simply had to learn to cope with his PTSD from it all.

What was missing was accountability.  He is accountable for staying and actively participating in that dynamic.

We were together 6 yrs.  We sought couples counseling before the end of that first year.  The dysfunctional relational dynamics were creeping in.  He began cooing with his ex’s ongoing abuse at him by transferring it onto me.  When he could not get angry at her, he got angry at me.  Our own couples therapist expressed that he was having difficulty distinguishing her from me.  So he was treating me like someone abusive towards him!

For my next relationship... .I hope to find someone who realizes that they were not a victim of their last relationship.  Who realizes they were an equal voluntary participant and I really hope what they are leaving is way higher functioning than what I left behind because I do feel I have grown a whole lot and I do believe we meet people at our maturity level, or pretty darn close.

Simply... .
I really hope to find someone who wouldn’t put up with that kind of crap and is functioning on a much higher level, has better boundaries, not so easily co dependent, not drawn to a trauma bond, etc.  

I mean... maybe it is a person who experienced a relationship with a pwBPD, but I would not seek that out specifically. 

Falling into/repeating similar dysfunctional relational patterns could be an issue with seeking out someone to build foindation with over shared trauma experiences.  (Bonding over trauma is not a good starting place imo)

[Insom]

Hi, Dargumin!

The heart and depth of character of many of the NONs I've found on this board has made me wonder if there is a dedicated dating site for people who identify as NONs?

Ha!  I love this and agree that bpdfamily is one special place.  I'm hearing that you're getting clear about what you want in a romantic partner and that heart and depth are attractive to you and you're looking for someone capable of introspection and growth.

I'm 35 and interested to date women aged 25-30, I was thinking to blackball any women that hand't been in at least a 3 year relationship as it feels like a red flag.  Do you think that would be fair for that age range?   

Some of the qualities you've mentioned - like capacity for growth - are revealed as a person matures.  Can you think of any other indicators that might signal you're on the right track with someone?  Prior-relationship-length may be one (though it's been such a long time since I've dated that I'm not a good judge).

Anyone else want to weigh in?  How can you tell in the early stages of getting to know someone if that person has emotional depth and is willing to grow?

[heartandwhole]

Hi Dargumin,

I can understand your logic here. There are many caring, empathic, and supportive people here who have been through some really tough relationships. With recovery, comes—hopefully— insight and growth. And better “Romantic Competence.”

I agree with Sunfl0wer, however, that specifically looking for people who have gone through such relationships might not only backfire (person hasn’t done the work needed to recover/grow), but it could keep you in a limited circle, when what may be better is to go for well differentiated people who exhibit a secure attachment style.

It’s great to find people who understand what we’ve been through. On the other hand, it could also be great to grow and learn from people who would have walked away in the first place.  

Not saying it’s easy. Just food for thought.

heartandwhole

[Jeffree]

Dargumin,

Sounds as though ArleighB might make a great wingman.   Let him take all the bullets, and he'll tell you which of his castoffs seem decent enough.

Years ago, like 10 years ago if you can believe it, I went on some dates with and met a couple of "nons" here. I'll put it this way: Self reporting is not an accurate measure of one's NONness.

It sounds to me as though you're looking for a BPD-free dating zone of some sort to avoid the experience you just had. While that's probably not realistic, it might help you to see the signs and live the strategies you learn here to navigate the dating world and keep any interactions with potential pwBPD to a minimum.

Also, feel free to bounce your questions here. You know, "I met this great person online. She's 25 years old, in rehab, has no friends, can't hold a job for more than a few months at a time, is in bad debt, just had her license revoked, but her her ex is stalking her. She wants to get married and have kids. I think she might be BPD. What do you think?" 

J

[Dargumin]

Dargumin,

Sounds as though ArleighB might make a great wingman.   Let him take all the bullets, and he'll tell you which of his castoffs seem decent enough.

Years ago, like 10 years ago if you can believe it, I went on some dates with and met a couple of "nons" here. I'll put it this way: Self reporting is not an accurate measure of one's NONness.

It sounds to me as though you're looking for a BPD-free dating zone of some sort to avoid the experience you just had. While that's probably not realistic, it might help you to see the signs and live the strategies you learn here to navigate the dating world and keep any interactions with potential pwBPD to a minimum.

Also, feel free to bounce your questions here. You know, "I met this great person online. She's 25 years old, in rehab, has no friends, can't hold a job for more than a few months at a time, is in bad debt, just had her license revoked, but her her ex is stalking her. She wants to get married and have kids. I think she might be BPD. What do you think?"  

J

Can't stop laughing! Great post, nice to get a bit of humour in here.  I was only in my relationship 2 months, I got out the moment she crossed my boundaries, but missed her like mad afterwards.  I do have an addictive personality, so I fear the cold turkey effect was amplified losing a pwBPD immediately after idealisation finished. She split me black and showed no remorse for the loss of our long friendship.   I've had so much cognitive dissonance it's unreal,  I missed her like crazy and wanted her back for much of last year.   But yes I guess the fact that I knew to and was able to get out in the first place means I'm quite different to some NONs on here, but I still hate the fact that I wanted her back for so long... .I guess I was holding out hope that she wasn't BPD and just needed time to see sense, my personal situation wasn't ideal, there was merit in her wanting to end the relationship, but there was no merit in how she behaved towards me.  

[ArleighBurke]

Wow, 60 dates in one year.  That sounds exhausting!

Yeah - I wasn't in a good place. I put way too much time into trying to find "her". I probably chatted online to 2-3x that many - was going on 2-3 dates each week - but I was dissappointed by most women. I had second dates with less than 10 of them. (I've stopped my dating frenzy now and am choosing to focus on me).

On my dates, I try to get them comfortable in conversation, then get into the deep discussions early on. Asking about their last relationship, or future desires, or life plan - quickly reveals their depth. (I have made 3 girls cry on the first date through deep conversation!)

Sometimes I think that one date isn't enough to really see their depth, and maybe I've missed a few opportunities - but on the other hand I like the philosophy of "if it's not f*ck yeah (I want this woman) then it's a no".

And at 40, I have very little chance of meeting someone "in real life". I meet very few women, and I can't possibly assume that those I do meet are single, and they probably won't assume the same of me. I do go to singles meets where I can, otherwise - it's online.

[steelwork]

Wow, 60 dates in one year.  That sounds exhausting!  I've never done online dating before,  I've just gone with people I've met through the course of my life, but that has proven a poor way to meet suitable people it seems.   My BPD ex had no relationship lasting longer than 2 years.  I'm 35 and interested to date women aged 25-30, I was thinking to blackball any women that hand't been in at least a 3 year relationship as it feels like a red flag.  Do you think that would be fair for that age range?   

I think you need to be less actuarial if you want to find someone nice & compatible. Especially if you are looking for someone as young as 25. After all, many 25-year-olds have not had three-year relationships. Most, even. I know I hadn't (not that I'm anyone's idea of perfect).

And while we're at it: why are you setting that age range? Why would you not want to date someone your own age? I ask as a 52-year-old woman who probably has no hope of attracting the notice of a man not Medicare-eligible, and whose uBPDex took up with someone 16 years his junior, so maybe it's a sensitive subject.

[steelwork]

Or let me put it another way.

A lot of the problems we have with BPD-trait partners are a matter of emotional immaturity. Many of the SOs I've heard described hereabouts sound to me like people who are young and immature. Some of those people might even age out of a lot of the BPD traits that have been so troublesome. By setting your age range at 5-10 years younger than yourself, it seems to me that you are stacking the deck against yourself.

I would add to that the fact that many of the horrible relationships I've heard described here were long-term. I don't see any evidence that the fact that you've clung to a relationship for 3+ years is a guarantee of emotional health.

[Dargumin]

I think you need to be less actuarial if you want to find someone nice & compatible. Especially if you are looking for someone as young as 25. After all, many 25-year-olds have not had three-year relationships. Most, even. I know I hadn't (not that I'm anyone's idea of perfect).

And while we're at it: why are you setting that age range? Why would you not want to date someone your own age? I ask as a 52-year-old woman who probably has no hope of attracting the notice of a man not Medicare-eligible, and whose uBPDex took up with someone 16 years his junior, so maybe it's a sensitive subject.

To be fair it's more likely they'll be age 28-30, but i just don't want to be that narrow.  I'd like children in 4 or 5 years, likelyhood of Down Syndrom increases with the woman's age through her 30's so If I got with a girl that is 35 now, she's be 39/40 by the time children were on the cards.  I want to minimise such risks. Also I look really young for my age, like 26/27.  I don't really wish to be with a woman that looks older than me. 

[gotbushels]

Hi Dargumin  

From the title - I thought this was a business plan.  

So I'm ready to get back in the dating game now.  ... .
dedicated dating site ... .

It seems like you're ready to date. Enjoy! I think the thing going through your mind right now is you want to put the probabilities in your favour that you won't come across people with PDs. Ideally, you'd like to date someone who isn't in this sort of predicament.

I don't know if there's a dedicated no-PD site for dating, or even,

NON's that have experienced PD relationships.  

I just want to hold out that this is a worthy goal,

meeting someone else that has done serious introspection and growth appeals to me.

We're here to help each other and something you can consider is do it how the "oldbies" have done it. Basically, see that you have these criteria as criteria. The same way some senior members here say redflag awareness is a set of criteria.

What event can you go to where it increases the odds of your criteria?I think you could look at speed dating or vetted-and-organised dates. They have this in my town, from classic speed dating at $30 each--to tailored matches that are supposed to go into a few $00 dollars. There are subscription services when you increase the $ amount.

I'm sure that if you're paying someone so much money, you can specify that you want someone with no PD medical history or something like that. It makes sense that when both parties put money on the table, and there's a person investigating and intermediating, you'll less likely to run into someone who lies about themselves on the big issues.

I brought some friends, and tried to bring others--most were reticent about it for their own reasons. So I'd recommend you at least punt for basic speed dating.

Sounds as though ArleighB might make a great wingman.  ... .

Yes! I highly, highly recommend you bring a friend (either sex is fine), this helped me a lot.  



At worst, you'll be tired--dating can be tiring. A good thing is--even if you don't find someone you want to date--you'll stretch your legs again. To me, that's what I read into

... .probably around 60 first dates.

I think you need to be less actuarial if you want to find someone nice & compatible.

It might not seem like much, but what ArleighBurke shared here, I think it's relevant and valuable.

It is easy to tell the difference.

If you find some way to get volume of dates, you'll be able to experiment and test your views. That can only do good things for you if you come away from the pwBPD 'experience' with a healthy outlook.



steelwork has a strong point here.

A lot of the problems we have with BPD-trait partners are a matter of emotional immaturity.

It's thought that emotional maturity is big driver of compatibility on this community.

By setting your age range at 5-10 years younger than yourself, it seems to me that you are stacking the deck against yourself.

If you're not sure about this, you might consider testing the idea yourself.

... .she's be 39/40 by the time children were on the cards.  I want to minimise such risks.

You are so, so not alone on this one Dargumin. A friend of mind did the legwork on this and according to her, there's good evidence to support your concern. It's about what you and your prospect both want here, I think.

To be fair it's more likely they'll be age 28-30, but i just don't want to be that narrow.

Yes! Manage your expectations.  

Have fun!  


<edit: format>

[Dignity&Strength]

Hi, I just wanted to weigh in with a quick thought, something that is true of myself. Even though I AM a non, there is family of origin issues that allowed  red flags pass muster with me. I have given the  benefit of the doubt, hoped for the best, and was desensitized to some things that most people are sensitive to. If I ever have another chance to date, I would want to do a lot of self study, schema and family of origin work, to see what I did to not pay attention to small things. It’s him, not me, in my situation now, but, my instincts were spot on about him and I didn’t listen to myself. I hope to find a good therapist to do healing someday, especially before thinking about a new relationship... But I do have to say i have  wondered the same thing as you’re question... .wow, so many of us empathy together here! But my next thought is, I wonder if everyone does healing work after getting through this.
Best wishes, and what a neat thought!
Dig

[Stripey77]

For what it's worth, I'd like to add my voice in support of Steelwork's points. As a 40 year old woman, I have not been in a r/s of 3 years' standing, at least, not something I would refer to as a solid relationship. Life is not linear sometimes, and it most certainly is not a fairy tale. I cannot tell you how often I get asked, by men of all ages and across cultures, why I don't have a wedding ring, why I am not taken, what's a hot woman like me doing on her own... .etc, etc. The short answer to that is one many of you will identify with, which is that my last actual boyfriend (who I believe has BPD) broke my heart so badly I have felt unable to love again, so far to date. I have had one brief romance since then but it didn't get off the ground.  It's not because I am a red flag... .and I would implore you to let down your barriers somewhat if you are seriously looking to find love. I am the same age as you (the OP) and I have had the complete gamut of relationships in my time... .affairs or romances that have lasted on and off for years, brief flings, bed buddies and serious boyfriends. I have lived with 2 men, one of whom I truly thought I would settle down with and marry, and who is still in my life as a friend. But I have not, through all of this, had the prescribed three year relationship that you have put down as a marker for a red flag in its absence.

There is such a thing as being unlucky, phenomenally unlucky. Please don't write off a wonderful woman if you meet her because she hasn't so far met her prince... .it's a minefield out there and really hard going. If you think it's tough on being a single man of 40, which incidentally is hardly old, then trying being a woman of 40 and single. Maybe I am lucky, I am getting plenty of offers, really I am, many from men in their 20s (yes!), 30s and 40s and older, but so far, not quite what I am hoping for.  I again agree with Steelwork, why are you discarding women of over 35 yet looking at women as young as 25? I don't meant to be unkind, but I can assure you that when I was a younger woman of 25, I certainly wasn't looking for men in their 40s. Even if I  had done, it would have been as a fling not as something of substance. I think you would do far better to up your age limit, so to speak, and find a woman who would probably have far more in common with you, in terms of emotional maturity, wants, needs, and lifestyle. Come on, give one of us 'mature' women a go  - yes, even one who hasn't had a three year relationship.


I think the key is to being less prescriptive and more open... .you never know who might come your way.

[Jeffree]

Another issue with the three-year benchmark is that some of these illnesses are cyclical and can turn on a dime after 3, 4, 5, 10, 15 or more years.

Sometimes the oddest thing can trigger a drastic shift in the relationship, other times it's as simple as infidelity.

PLUS, I was married to both my ex BPDs for 7 years, so there's two datings candidates I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy. 


J

[Jeffree]

I still can’t get Arleigh’s counting stats out of my head. 60 dates? I can’t get one date. How in the world does one get 60?

J

[ArleighBurke]

Where do I get 60 dates from? I would estimate:
- 30% from Tinder
- 35% from Plenty of Fish
- 15% from RSVP
- 5% from Bumble
- 15% from Singles Functions, setups by friends or me cold approaching

[Jeffree]

I think there should be a dating site just for pwBPDs so as to make it safer for the rest of us to put ourselves out there.

J

[The Cat in d Hat]

I think there should be a dating site just for pwBPDs so as to make it safer for the rest of us to put ourselves out there.

J

In theory I agree, it’s just not something that could be implemented. Back from March, over the course of 3 months I came across 2, out of 25, which was 2 more than I’ve ever encountered in my life.

Since then I’ve given up on online dating and now think it’s best to just meet someone in person. Of course plenty have met theirs in person so there’s a chance there as well... .

I think paying attention to flags really helps. By now we should all be thoroughly versed, I’d like to call it we’re all actively immunized?

[gotbushels]

I think there should be a dating site just for pwBPDs so as to make it safer for the rest of us to put ourselves out

In theory I agree, it’s just not something that could be implemented.

Yes, if you're thinking of removing specific fish from the pool (so it's "safer" then in theory I think you're already getting what you want. There's an idea that pwBPDs select mates with correlations toward trait sets--the same idea as how BPs "like" people with NPD/ASPD etc. If that holds, then by moving yourself away from that trait set (and any corresponding NPD/ASPD etc. tendencies)--it's like using your traits to remove those fish from the pool, despite the pwBPDs still physically being there.