How did you deal with projection?

[BasementDweller]

Mine was once coming home in the evening after getting up at 0400, commuting for an hour to work, putting in a ten hour day at the office, going to a night course for three hours directly from the office, and arriving home exhausted at 2000 PM to find my dBPDbf drinking rum out of a bottle, and red wine out of a huge water glass at the same time. As soon as I entered the door, he drunkenly began laying into me about my "alcoholism".  

I could only laugh, pat him on the arm and say "Ah, projection. It's a hell of a drug!" After a few moments of rage, he expressed how bored he had been because I was gone for so long, so he had to keep himself entertained by drinking - and then tried to get me to drink with him.  

This was a time ago, and things have improved a lot since those "good ol days".

How did you deal with it?

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[Skip]

This was a time ago, and things have improved a lot since

This is something to feel good about.

I could only laugh, pat him on the arm and say "Ah, projection. It's a hell of a drug!" After a few moments of rage... .

The "rage" might suggest that sarcasm isn't a good tool.

What is helpful to me is to realize that both projection and sarcasm are things that everyone does and that they are generally toxic to relationships in mass quantity.

I'm looking forward to what members have to say this subject. A lot of us are frustrated with it.

What is projection and why do people project? The tendency to disown the qualities we don’t like about ourselves and see them in others is projection. There is a human tendency (we all do this) to focus on certain behaviors in others (the very traits we have denied in ourselves) so that we can point at them outside ourselves. In this way we declare our (illusory) separation from, and victim-hood to, behavior patterns we don't like.

Projection is a most derailing and destructive phenomenon in intimate relationships. Its power lies in our inability to see it. Because it is a subconscious defense mechanism, we are most often blind to our own projections.

What is sarcasm and why do we use it? Sarcasm (not irony) is a polite version of criticism. There is a human tendency (we all do this) to do this, too. It is a form of criticism that is usually accompanied by particular negative attitudes, such as disapproval, contempt, scorn, and ridicule.  Some argued that an effect of ironic criticism is to dilute condemnation, relative to the more direct form of just verbalizing the criticism". Studies have demonstrated that sometimes ironic criticism is used for the complete opposite reason, namely to enhance condemnation (Toplak, 2000). It is often taken this way, by the recipient.

These two things together, are bad on bad.

It is vitally important in relationships to keep communications as healthy as possible. Once they deteriorate, the ability to recover becomes less and less and the relationship ultimately crashes. This is a excellent article on how it plays out (see link).

Stage Four Rather than face the pain and overwhelm they expect to experience, partners who have reached this third 'defensive' stage, may progress to the forth and final stage of breakdown, characterized by a breakdown of basic trust between the partners, and increasing disengagement in the name of self-protection. Like a steam-valve in a pressure cooker, the partners start avoiding one another so as to minimize their conflicts. Gottman calls this final stage, "Stonewalling", perhaps after the image of a partner hiding behind a stone wall designed to protect him or her from further assault. Unfortunately, there is no way to love your partner when you are hiding behind a wall to protect yourself from him or her.
https://bpdfamily.com/content/your-relationship-breaking-down

In the case you described, it was drunken utterances and I would have treated it like all drunken utterance and be pleasant and move on, or ask to discuss it the next day when we are sober and rested. This type of projection is more a annoying than harmful.

I think the more difficult projection is something that has been ongoing for months in a relationship. These breakdown the ability for the partners to communicate and resolve matters.

Anyone... .how have you dealt with longstanding projections - keeping lines of communication open - in your relationship?

[Radcliff]

Wait, Skip, so you mean that I could be projecting?  I'm embarrassed to admit, that thought had never occurred to me!  I can imagine a relationship coach going through the Movie of My Life and pointing out where I went astray!

The obvious projections are easy to spot, like when I walk in the door from work in a great mood, with a smile on my face, and my wife accuses me of being unhappy.  In those instances, I just flip it around, and can validate, try to ease some stress somewhere, etc.

I had not really considered the concept of longstanding projection.  I just had been thinking on an incident-by-incident basis.  With hindsight, I can see that this "you're unhappy" projection was longstanding.  I am not sure how I could have addressed it.  If I had asked her head-on how we might help her unhappiness, I'm certain the answer would have come back that I was the key to everything and needed to fix myself.  But in failing to recognize the longstanding projection, and not thinking of ways to address it in a less direct and more constructive manner over time, I think I missed a significant opportunity.

Does anyone have any projection success stories?  Difficult situations you'd like some input on?

WW

[livednlearned]

That's a long, hard day BD!

As soon as I entered the door, he drunkenly began laying into me about my "alcoholism".  

I've experienced this too.

Do you think he feels judged by you? If you drink much less, or don't drink at all, this might be activating a lot of insecurity on his part.

What happens or happened when he tries to get you to drink with him?

[Enabler]

Hey there Basementdweller,

So, like all things in BPD and in fact life these things don't necessarily come with flashing lights and a sign saying "this is projection", also and this is where I have struggled in the past, I didn't know nor suspect that she had bad feelings or in fact was having an affair for example thus just took it as a crazy comment with no foundation.

I typically receive (or used to receive when she was speaking to me) projection in the form of:

- you find me unattractive
- you are a bad parent, you get angry with the kids all the time
- you're out all the time
- how can I love you when you don't even love yourself
- your mother hates me
- your friends hate me

Using your example, and I have experienced this one before when I've been the one carrying her back to our student digs at the start of our relationship "You're soo drunk!"... .hmmmm aren't I the one carrying you because you can't walk? These incidences are amusing for sure and you can chuckle about them. Is it that drunkeness opens the passageway into someones mind and loosens the tongue? Maybe. I find my wife to be far more angry when she's drunk which is probably an indication of what's really going on inside her head. Those masks have a tendency to slip A LOT once the wheels are greased with a few drinks.

In this example, maybe he feels shame about the fact that he knows he has a drinking problem. I don't know how regularly this happens to you i.e. the conversation about you being an alki, I wonder if you could use these opportunities to find out what is going on in the guarded interior of his head? Talk to him about why you like to have a few drinks, what it does for you and maybe start a deep and meaningful about why he drinks and what it does for him. I personally like those wedding, summer bbq drinks... .you drink all day and all night and yet you never seem to fall over or be drunk. I don't like being drunk, it rubbish and i don't need to numb any feelings, never have, never will. I do like being tipsy and adventurous "p!ssed", it makes me naughty and uninhibited.

It's tough to spot and requires you to know yourself SUPER well... .but allow him to project onto you and instead of absorbing it as a personal critique of you, watch the projection and observe what he is showing you on the screen that is you. I won't deny this is incredibly difficult as it will feel very personal, but if you can catch it early you can watch the soap opera.

Have you got any more examples?

[Enabler]

The longest standing projection my wife has is "You have an anger problem"

[Skip]

One tool I have used is, during times of bliss, to lightly ask the question, "why do you think I am a ______ ) lets say "procrastinator".

And then listen.

And then follow up with a few "supreme court" type questions in a day or two.

Day 2: So your example that I missed taking out the trash on trash day, is what you think of when you say procrastinator? I did do that. I'm a bad trash person. I had reasons. None are really good. I'll work on it.

Day 4: When you paid the mortgage late, is that a type of procrastination, or just an honest mistake? Can we help each other on this?

Slowly whittle it down. Chip away over time.

[Tattered Heart]

I tend to do what Skip suggest. I ask questions to drill down into what my H is talking about. Often my H's projections take me by surprise.

Sadly our pwBPD often try to tell us things but they don't know how to say (or sometimes even identify) "I'm sad. I'm angry. I'm hurt." It's much easier to say "You're the angry one. You're always getting hurt by something. You're sad all the time." because that means they would have to look at their own state and that can lead to shame.

The last time I remember my H projecting onto me was he told me that my driving was out of control after some other drivers were driving badly on the interstate. I believe my H felt out of control, unsafe, and if he was driving he would have gotten road rage. He began to accuse me of driving crazy and knowing that I had just handled the situation with lots of skill, I asked him

Me: "What part of my driving was crazy just now?"
Him: I don't know. Not there. Sometimes you don't wear your seatbelt.
Me: Did I not wear my seatbelt recently?
Him: I used to have to remind you all the time
Me: When was the last time you had to remind me?
Him: You used to do it a lot when we first got married.
Me: Yeah, I remember that. You taught me how important that was. That was along time ago.
Him: Begins to talk about other crazy driver and the situation we were just in with the bad drivers.

Basement Dweller (or any others who shared similar stories), looking at your situation, what are some questions you could have asked to get to the bottom of what your pwBPD is REALLY trying to say in their projection?

[BasementDweller]

Skip - you're right. I know this. Sarcasm is NOT a good tool. I just got really annoyed and that slipped out.

Things have improved a lot with us, and we're both learning to better express ourselves without these mechanisms in place. (Sarcasm, projection, defensiveness, etc.)

I'm going to answer the other posts and get more into this in a bit more deeply. Today we are hosting a taco party for a bunch of teenagers. I have to prepare myself for the chaos. 

[Radcliff]

Tattered Heart, where have you been all my life?  I'm not hitting on you, I promise  but I really wish I could have been reading posts like that when I first got married (of course, that was in the days of 2400 baud modems!).  Uh, wait, we may have members that don't know what a modem is... .   )

The way you described that situation, I can see how you navigated through it without you or your H getting more upset!  "What part of my driving is making you upset?" is such an artful question!  It validates his feelings, acknowledges his concern, and every so subtly challenges his reality so you don't feel invalidated, while attempting to rationally draw out some detail.  I think on my best days once or twice I may have managed something similar, though very often I'd just say, "Sorry, I don't want you to be concerned, I'll be careful" which was invalidating to me.

WW

[sladezy]

I think I spent alot of time trying to make good in myself what was being projected onto me which was very tiring and ultimately never ended as there was always something new. Reading this thread is giving me good examples of how to handle it in the future though. Thanks everyone!