Hello, & setting boundaries for a Quiet Bordeline

[Depression = 72% of members]

Hi,

I'm in a same sex pseudo-relationship with a quiet borderline.  We met online 5 months ago, found out we lived a few streets apart and instantly hit it off.

I was always under the impression that there was some childhood abuse due to his extreme anxiety and fear of intimacy.  I'm quite emphatic and so I could always feel him holding himself back, afraid of letting go.  I put this down to him having not long come out of a 4 year relationship with an abusive alcoholic  (he seems to have a history of dysfunctional relationships and friendships - possibly to mask his own dysfunction).  We grew close:  we'd be round each other's houses in the evening for tea, we'd watch Netflix late into the morning, we'd even cook for each other.  He says he's not ready for a relationship and whilst I agree, in many ways we seem to be in one.  I'm normally a person who likes their own space but I genuinely like his company and we see each other most nights.  I think we've texted every day since we first physically met 4 months ago.  I do wish for physical intimacy but have been patient and understanding.  His BPD only seems to manifest every 6 weeks or so when we have the most amazing of days.  Far from being one-sided, it's like he briefly comes out of his shell.  I can see it in his body language and the way he subconsciously starts referring to us rather than him or I.  On two occasions, I've actually noticed him going in for a kiss and then stopping himself.

And then I get the rejection.  I'll text him and say some compliment about how I enjoyed spending time with him.  And then I'll get something back about how I will one day find someone and how he's not built for relationships or is afraid he will hurt me.  He goes cold for a few days and then the cycle repeats.   I don't notice too much in the way of adulation just a willingness to draw closer.   There's never any shouting, or any arguments, just a withdrawal.  It's hard not to think that I've wounded him somehow.

I learned he has cluster headaches, EDS but he kept the BPD the most hidden.  He doesn't seem to be getting proper treatment for any of them (he has some cluster headache medicine but he's not been referred to a specialist, and everything else is treated as anxiety and depression).  I don't know if this crap medical care, or if he's resistant to the idea of treatment.  I've educated myself over the months and shared what I've learnt with him.  When he says that I am the first person who has taken the time to try and understand him, I don't think that's idealisation.  He has zero friends after ghosting his few fellow weed users when he gave up and decided to try and better himself (shortly before he met me).  His mother (who seems nice but who by his own admission was so disfunctional when he was growing up that moving into a hostel at 16 was the best move for him) is struggling with her third marriage and not the best role model.  His father is absent and used to humiliate him.

During his January devaluation cycle we decided that it would be best if we just stayed friends.  But I quickly realised that I loved the man for all his faults and the idea of loving another actually pained me.  When I did start looking for someone after the January rejection he kept going on about how everyone in the area probably had STDs and I was best staying away from them.  He also said he'd help vet my dates because he knows that some guys in the area lie about their sexual health status.  I deleted the apps in front of him a few weeks later just to see if he'd protest  (I'd given up using them weeks before).  He never said a word.  Surely if he wanted me to find someone, wouldn't he at least pass comment?  This is the only vaguely manipulative thing I have seen him do.  However, it made me question whether I was just reading into things, that those moments I take as love were false moments of selfishness meant to draw me in.  I started keeping a journal because watching that conflict going on behind his eyes, made me feel conflicted as well.  But to give you some recent examples.  One day I was feeling down and he cancelled plans to be with his mum and suggested that we do a couple of my favourite things (I'll come back to this).  His cat is pregnant and joking around he blurts out how we were both going to be fathers.  He came round one evening a cleared my front patio (including the drains which stank).  Another night he cleaned my kitchen  (and boy can he clean... .my taps were gleaming) and rearranged my cupboards so I had more work space. 

I've taken ridiculously tentative steps forward.  I've always believed in being honest to myself and to him.  So I sent him a valentine's card agonising over the language so it was appropriate.  I got a thanks text.  I bought him flowers when he had a stressful day (and he later admitted to me that I'd never know just how much that meant to him).  But I've always felt that if I went in for so much as a hand-hold he'd shatter.

I've been so afraid of misreading his inner conflict that I told him that the only way a kiss or a relationship was ever going to happen is if he instigated it.  I'd hoped that would have given him some confidence and control and ensure he didn't feel he was getting lost.

He opened up to me on Saturday telling me things about his childhood.  I told him about some past trauma of my own to empathise and said I'd be down for a day or two as I'd opened some old wounds but I'd be OK.  That's when he contacted me the next day and suggest we take his dog for a walk or he'd come round and play some World of Warcraft with me.  Such a kind and thoughtful gesture that just didn't seem the selfish stereotype that BPDers get.

I thanked him by test that night:  "On a day where old feelings of worthlessness and unloveableness have been screaming in my ear you've been a knight"
In response I get:  "Ah we all have off days   Just coz we're not meant to be doesn't mean there isn't someone out there... .  boyfriends come and go friends last a lifetime".  He also said he's not found himself yet which is first time he's made any reference to identity issues.  He told me (as he's said before) that he wants me to get out there and meet people which I find strange as I have loads of friends and whilst I've withdrawn a little in recent weeks, I still see them regularly.  I wonder if there's some weird transference / projection going on.  It becomes his reality.

It was the worst possible time for a devaluation.   Why not do it when I got the flowers, or when I sent the card?  Why when I was on a rare low?  He masks the rejection as "I just want to be friends" and when I asked why he said he's "persevered hoping I would get over it".  It confuses me so much and has me questioning whether I've imagined all those positive come ons (I've checked my journal and know I'm not being stupid).   I know this is him pushing away because he's afraid to get hurt, I know why these devaluations happen, but I hate them so much.  Part of me wants to just say I'm going on a date to see his reaction... .however, I don't think that would be beneficial to anyone  (I think if I did it would just confirm to him his fears of abandonment).

What hurts is the idea that I could replace my love for him with someone else.  As I said to him on Tuesday night:  "You complain about your dog crapping in the hall when it doesn't get attention.  But if I said I'd take the dog from you so you could get another one, you'd tell me to get lost."  I think he was truly horrified that he'd hurt me so much.  Are you sure you want to be around me? he asked.  I reassured him yes.

I realise that I'm slipping into the trap of codependency and told him that I love him, that now is not the time but I do one day want a proper relationship with him  (which pretty much looks exactly like we have now - his only experiences of relationships are dysfunctional ones).  However, I can't be walking on eggshells trying to read his every emotion for fear of saying the wrong thing at the wrong time.  I have to treat him like an adult.

We were supposed to be doing dinner the next day but he text me late to say that he feeling a bit murky and wanted a night in.  He's never said that in the 5 months we've spoken and seen each other nearly every day  (only exception is if one of us is away).  I asked if I had upset him to which he honestly replied "I don't think it's exactly you just feeling ___".

I gave him space.  I told myself that I'd respond to him but I'd not instigate conversation unless I really need to check on his physical wellbeing (we play a lot of the same mobile games and they usually tell me if he's been online).  The only exception was some BPD videos and resources to help him educate himself that I promised to him.  I've taught him spoon theory and this has really helped him communicate his emotions over the past few months, but I stop short of being his therapist.

He messaged me last night.  We talked nothingness about games.  He also told me he was booking a doctor's appointment to try and get them to push forward treatment for his various conditions (including BPD).  He's been stressing that his mother wants to go with him and will just cause a scene  (I suspect she feels like me that he's not getting proper treatment but always refuse to let him play us off against each other by saying she means well).  I'd put together a letter for him to give to his GP (empowering him) so that if his anxiety takes hold he can hand over the letter (which basically says I'm feeling anxious, this is what I need to tell you) and he said he was definitely planning to use it.  He messaged me again this morning to say it's done.  I congratulated him and suggested that if he was worried about his mum, I would be prepared to drive him and wait in the car.  We could then go to his favourite all you could eat chinese restaurant to decompress after what must be a stressful event.  I thought it would be a productive way to re-enforce that getting help was the right way to go.

I've had the silent treatment again and whilst I know I just need to mentally disengage after I put the offer of help there (it's his choice to either take it or leave it), I'm currently fixated on it and what that silent treatment actually means.  I'll probably get some random text about something later this afternoon / evening and the question will get forgotten / ignored.

I know I need to set boundaries (as much for myself - this week has been absolutely brutal on me emotionally) and establish positive models for behaviour but it's hard when it's internal with quiet BPD.  I'm angry, upset and feel as if the emotion I've invested into him has been discarded.  Does the fact that he's told me he's going to the doctor show an indication that he knows his behaviour isn't right and needs to change?  But does the silent treatment mean he's still in devaluation?  As you can probably tell, I'm in the process of trying to step away from a caretaker role but I'm one of those people who find acceptance and stability through understanding (even if that understanding is that it's due to BPD irrational behaviour).  I still love him and hope that given how his BPD is fairly minor compared to a lot of people that with the right therapy and time he can be more himself around me more of the time.

tldr; Any ideas of helpful boundaries to set up for someone with mild quiet BPD?

[Figures]

Hi,

I'm in a same sex pseudo-relationship with a quiet borderline.  We met online 5 months ago, found out we lived a few streets apart and instantly hit it off.

I was always under the impression that there was some childhood abuse due to his extreme anxiety and fear of intimacy.  I'm quite emphatic and so I could always feel him holding himself back, afraid of letting go.  I put this down to him having not long come out of a 4 year relationship with an abusive alcoholic  (he seems to have a history of dysfunctional relationships and friendships - possibly to mask his own dysfunction).  We grew close:  we'd be round each other's houses in the evening for tea, we'd watch Netflix late into the morning, we'd even cook for each other.  He says he's not ready for a relationship and whilst I agree, in many ways we seem to be in one.  I'm normally a person who likes their own space but I genuinely like his company and we see each other most nights.  I think we've texted every day since we first physically met 4 months ago.  I do wish for physical intimacy but have been patient and understanding.  His BPD only seems to manifest every 6 weeks or so when we have the most amazing of days.  Far from being one-sided, it's like he briefly comes out of his shell.  I can see it in his body language and the way he subconsciously starts referring to us rather than him or I.  On two occasions, I've actually noticed him going in for a kiss and then stopping himself.

And then I get the rejection.  I'll text him and say some compliment about how I enjoyed spending time with him.  And then I'll get something back about how I will one day find someone and how he's not built for relationships or is afraid he will hurt me.  He goes cold for a few days and then the cycle repeats.   I don't notice too much in the way of adulation just a willingness to draw closer.   There's never any shouting, or any arguments, just a withdrawal.  It's hard not to think that I've wounded him somehow.

I learned he has cluster headaches, EDS but he kept the BPD the most hidden.  He doesn't seem to be getting proper treatment for any of them (he has some cluster headache medicine but he's not been referred to a specialist, and everything else is treated as anxiety and depression).  I don't know if this crap medical care, or if he's resistant to the idea of treatment.  I've educated myself over the months and shared what I've learnt with him.  When he says that I am the first person who has taken the time to try and understand him, I don't think that's idealisation.  He has zero friends after ghosting his few fellow weed users when he gave up and decided to try and better himself (shortly before he met me).  His mother (who seems nice but who by his own admission was so disfunctional when he was growing up that moving into a hostel at 16 was the best move for him) is struggling with her third marriage and not the best role model.  His father is absent and used to humiliate him.

During his January devaluation cycle we decided that it would be best if we just stayed friends.  But I quickly realised that I loved the man for all his faults and the idea of loving another actually pained me.  When I did start looking for someone after the January rejection he kept going on about how everyone in the area probably had STDs and I was best staying away from them.  He also said he'd help vet my dates because he knows that some guys in the area lie about their sexual health status.  I deleted the apps in front of him a few weeks later just to see if he'd protest  (I'd given up using them weeks before).  He never said a word.  Surely if he wanted me to find someone, wouldn't he at least pass comment?  This is the only vaguely manipulative thing I have seen him do.  However, it made me question whether I was just reading into things, that those moments I take as love were false moments of selfishness meant to draw me in.  I started keeping a journal because watching that conflict going on behind his eyes, made me feel conflicted as well.  But to give you some recent examples.  One day I was feeling down and he cancelled plans to be with his mum and suggested that we do a couple of my favourite things (I'll come back to this).  His cat is pregnant and joking around he blurts out how we were both going to be fathers.  He came round one evening a cleared my front patio (including the drains which stank).  Another night he cleaned my kitchen  (and boy can he clean... .my taps were gleaming) and rearranged my cupboards so I had more work space. 

I've taken ridiculously tentative steps forward.  I've always believed in being honest to myself and to him.  So I sent him a valentine's card agonising over the language so it was appropriate.  I got a thanks text.  I bought him flowers when he had a stressful day (and he later admitted to me that I'd never know just how much that meant to him).  But I've always felt that if I went in for so much as a hand-hold he'd shatter.

I've been so afraid of misreading his inner conflict that I told him that the only way a kiss or a relationship was ever going to happen is if he instigated it.  I'd hoped that would have given him some confidence and control and ensure he didn't feel he was getting lost.

He opened up to me on Saturday telling me things about his childhood.  I told him about some past trauma of my own to empathise and said I'd be down for a day or two as I'd opened some old wounds but I'd be OK.  That's when he contacted me the next day and suggest we take his dog for a walk or he'd come round and play some World of Warcraft with me.  Such a kind and thoughtful gesture that just didn't seem the selfish stereotype that BPDers get.

I thanked him by test that night:  "On a day where old feelings of worthlessness and unloveableness have been screaming in my ear you've been a knight"
In response I get:  "Ah we all have off days   Just coz we're not meant to be doesn't mean there isn't someone out there... .  boyfriends come and go friends last a lifetime".  He also said he's not found himself yet which is first time he's made any reference to identity issues.  He told me (as he's said before) that he wants me to get out there and meet people which I find strange as I have loads of friends and whilst I've withdrawn a little in recent weeks, I still see them regularly.  I wonder if there's some weird transference / projection going on.  It becomes his reality.

It was the worst possible time for a devaluation.   Why not do it when I got the flowers, or when I sent the card?  Why when I was on a rare low?  He masks the rejection as "I just want to be friends" and when I asked why he said he's "persevered hoping I would get over it".  It confuses me so much and has me questioning whether I've imagined all those positive come ons (I've checked my journal and know I'm not being stupid).   I know this is him pushing away because he's afraid to get hurt, I know why these devaluations happen, but I hate them so much.  Part of me wants to just say I'm going on a date to see his reaction... .however, I don't think that would be beneficial to anyone  (I think if I did it would just confirm to him his fears of abandonment).

What hurts is the idea that I could replace my love for him with someone else.  As I said to him on Tuesday night:  "You complain about your dog crapping in the hall when it doesn't get attention.  But if I said I'd take the dog from you so you could get another one, you'd tell me to get lost."  I think he was truly horrified that he'd hurt me so much.  Are you sure you want to be around me? he asked.  I reassured him yes.

I realise that I'm slipping into the trap of codependency and told him that I love him, that now is not the time but I do one day want a proper relationship with him  (which pretty much looks exactly like we have now - his only experiences of relationships are dysfunctional ones).  However, I can't be walking on eggshells trying to read his every emotion for fear of saying the wrong thing at the wrong time.  I have to treat him like an adult.

We were supposed to be doing dinner the next day but he text me late to say that he feeling a bit murky and wanted a night in.  He's never said that in the 5 months we've spoken and seen each other nearly every day  (only exception is if one of us is away).  I asked if I had upset him to which he honestly replied "I don't think it's exactly you just feeling ___".

I gave him space.  I told myself that I'd respond to him but I'd not instigate conversation unless I really need to check on his physical wellbeing (we play a lot of the same mobile games and they usually tell me if he's been online).  The only exception was some BPD videos and resources to help him educate himself that I promised to him.  I've taught him spoon theory and this has really helped him communicate his emotions over the past few months, but I stop short of being his therapist.

He messaged me last night.  We talked nothingness about games.  He also told me he was booking a doctor's appointment to try and get them to push forward treatment for his various conditions (including BPD).  He's been stressing that his mother wants to go with him and will just cause a scene  (I suspect she feels like me that he's not getting proper treatment but always refuse to let him play us off against each other by saying she means well).  I'd put together a letter for him to give to his GP (empowering him) so that if his anxiety takes hold he can hand over the letter (which basically says I'm feeling anxious, this is what I need to tell you) and he said he was definitely planning to use it.  He messaged me again this morning to say it's done.  I congratulated him and suggested that if he was worried about his mum, I would be prepared to drive him and wait in the car.  We could then go to his favourite all you could eat chinese restaurant to decompress after what must be a stressful event.  I thought it would be a productive way to re-enforce that getting help was the right way to go.

I've had the silent treatment again and whilst I know I just need to mentally disengage after I put the offer of help there (it's his choice to either take it or leave it), I'm currently fixated on it and what that silent treatment actually means.  I'll probably get some random text about something later this afternoon / evening and the question will get forgotten / ignored.

I know I need to set boundaries (as much for myself - this week has been absolutely brutal on me emotionally) and establish positive models for behaviour but it's hard when it's internal with quiet BPD.  I'm angry, upset and feel as if the emotion I've invested into him has been discarded.  Does the fact that he's told me he's going to the doctor show an indication that he knows his behaviour isn't right and needs to change?  But does the silent treatment mean he's still in devaluation?  As you can probably tell, I'm in the process of trying to step away from a caretaker role but I'm one of those people who find acceptance and stability through understanding (even if that understanding is that it's due to BPD irrational behaviour).  I still love him and hope that given how his BPD is fairly minor compared to a lot of people that with the right therapy and time he can be more himself around me more of the time.

tldr; Any ideas of helpful boundaries to set up for someone with mild quiet BPD?

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[juju2]

Welcome!

So sorry you are going thru this.  I can only share my experience, strength and hope.

My experience, 10 yrs and counting, we are separated as of last march, dating-not dating-seeing couples counselor-  this r/s has been a roller coaster!  We went from traveling together all last summer, 7 trips, to in October 21, he says he is dating other women... .

I don't know what to make of it honestly.

Friends say work on myself, date myself, get in shape, (lost 50 lbs, from not eating) get myself a life.  When we separated, I saw he was my whole life!  I saw myself totally co dependent.  So i am getting healthy, spirit, mind, body.  Am taking two classes at the community college... .

I found the being in r/s w BPD requires me to be healthy around all areas.  To make it work.

So right now, in counseling, we are starting fresh, if there is a fresh, and meeting once a week for coffee, not going to each others place at all.
This is what Therapist suggested... .  we have been going to counseling, now every 3 wks, used to be every 2 wks, and going for coffee, the weeks we don't have counseling.  We trade off setting up the coffees, we trade off paying the T.

people here are kind, wise, and safe.

Hang in there!


The most thing I have found is the only person I can control is me and my attitude.  I also have to be o.k. w uncertainty.

j

[Mutt]

Hi Figures,



I'd like to join juju2 and welcome you to bpdfamily. I'm glad that you decided to join us. I completely understand how it's difficult to get validation from a pwBPD. I suggest to read as much as you can about the disorder, you'll quickly see the benefits and become proficient over time.

I agree with you it would be nice to have that anger validated, you can validate that here with us, the best way that I can describe why a pwBPD are impaired with empathy is with depression, when you're depressed you disconnect from people, you have black and white thinking, it's like every bad thing that you have done is thrown at you mentally, it's a struggle to function some days. When you have a difficult time functioning you're facing internal battles it's hard to think about yourself and to empathise for someone else at the same time. I'm not excusing mental illness it helps to put yourself in the shoes of someone that is mentally ill. He does have the responsibility to take care of his mental health.

The most thing I have found is the only person I can control is me and my attitude.  I also have to be o.k. w uncertainty.

I agree with juju2.

[Figures]

I suggest to read as much as you can about the disorder, you'll quickly see the benefits and become proficient over time.

Yeah, I've been reading a lot recently and trying to share what I've found with him.  I guess I would prefer it if he could say that he was feeling engulfed rather than push me away, much like he can now tell me he has no spoons when he's not up to discussing things.  I can only hope

the best way that I can describe why a pwBPD are impaired with empathy is with depression, when you're depressed you disconnect from people, you have black and white thinking, it's like every bad thing that you have done is thrown at you mentally, it's a struggle to function some days.

This makes some sense to me.  I followed juju2's advice last night and took myself to the cinema.  Rather than wait around for a text, going and seeing a movie forced me to turn my phone off.  I was as anxious as hell during it which spoilt some of my enjoyment but I secretly (and rather pettily) hoped he'd see I was waiting on a reply from him, cave in and see his message undelivered.  I hate to cause him anxiety but after the last week I needed that for me.

I come out of the cinema to find an imessage and a text (which means he saw the imessage fail to deliver and tried to resend).  It was splitting white, talking about something I'd given him to read.

Am 50% through chapter 18... .the morning after... .simply love it it has got my attention massively... .would stop to chat but eyes back down

No mention about my earlier text and offer to help.  I didn't bring it up again.

I'd planned to wait until today to text him if I had no response and whilst there was a temptation to leave my phone off until today, I remind myself that I'm about setting boundaries not punishing him.  So we messaged each other as I walked home.  I asked if he was feeling more like himself.  He said he was.  I told him about a stressful work situation I need to make a decision on to which he said

That's totally up to you.  I can't sway you it's your call

Which I found odd (and maybe an insight into his thinking right now) as I'd not asked his opinion.

I even told him that I've been giving him some space as he's been splitting me black and I've been stressed (90% of it due to him, although I didn't say that).  Not sure if he knows what that means but he will if he watched the videos I sent him.  He's been emailed some advice on his cluster headaches and forwarded it to me via email.  I reassured that the process of getting things sorted was stressful but reminded him of the progress he's made in recent months.  Again he painted me white saying it was down to me.  I made sure to turn that around and stress that it was him, I just supported him.  My worry now is that he'll ignore addressing the BPD by focusing 100% on the cluster headaches ahead of his big doctor's visit.  I said I would look at the email when I got in.  I'll admit that there was that petty part of me that wanted him to know that if he wasn't around then I was going to do things without him.

He replied asking if I'd been anywhere nice and made a joke referencing the brothels in the book I'm reading.  The implication, of course, is that he's wondering if I've gone off and hooked up with someone  (his ex cheated on him).  Again, another thing I take to mean that he wants to be more than friends.  I replied that I'd been to the cinema but never said whether I went on my own or not (he's obviously thinking that.  If he asks I'll tell him).  We then had a nice chat.  He's been looking after a cat that was mistreated due to a distant family member's mental illness and he's really concerned about it going back as it got out whilst he was looking after it and may now be pregnant.

Remembering I need to set boundaries and not punish  (I don't want to hurt him, I'm just hurting myself)  I instigated the messages this morning asking if the cat was going home today.  He replied saying yes and he was stressed and upset.  I offered to come round and make tea, but that was ignored and he just ranted how the cat should not be going back.  I validated his feelings and asked him what I could do to help him?

She's just gone  ah be alright just annoys me

I've told him to do something to take his mind off things.  He's going to continue reading.  I'd hoped that after splitting me white again he'd want to meet but he seems to be actively avoiding me.  I'll admit that hurts because it's that duality again - wanting to keep me close whilst still pushing me away.  Part of me thinks to make plans for tonight so that even if he does invite me round I'm busy.  But I worry that's me trying to manipulate a situation rather than enforce positive behaviours.

Apologies for another long post but I've found it very helpful to find somewhere people can empathise what I'm going through without insisting that I just run.

tldr; He's now splitting me white but still keeping me away.

[CautiousHope]

I would like to try to offer a bit of insight into your confusion about what felt like devaluation or being pushed out when you were feeling low or reached for his support. I can only speak from my own experience with my pwBPD, but often when it feels he is pushing me away or withdrawing or even seeking alternate relationships if I am feeling low - it is because he thinks he is burdening me with his presence. It's strange to consider it from that angle, but it is consistently true in my case. When I am stressed or feeling overwhelmed or down (ESPECIALLY if it is in response to anything that affects or is related to our relationship), he will become cool and distant. But, when we are able to talk about it, it is because he doesn't want to overwhelm me further simply by being there. From the BPD perspective, they are a burden and unlovable and they often assume that they cause our unhappiness even when it has nothing to do with them. And, if we're being realistic, a lot of the time it is true. When I am feeling stressed out, I don't have the energy to deal with his BPD and deep down he knows that, so rather than risk making things worse, he backs off to protect himself and the relationship. This can rile up their abandonment anxiety or lead to feeling rejected (even though it's only perceived on their end) which can actually end up causing them to feel defensive and they overcompensate by becoming cold and distant - or sometimes even further and they can act agitated or even hostile.