It's been a roller coaster, but more ups than downs and he agreed to get help

[lostandconfused6]

I know it has been a while since i have posted on here, I have started a new job that has come with a lot more responsibility and a longer commute i am even working from home once i get off at night plus my son is starting his black belt program at his karate school and we still have homework and all that good stuff. On top of trying to keep my house together and daily life things coming up i am beyond pooped... .then there is my BPDbf he is in a whole catagory of his own i would love to say things have been rainbows and sunshine with us the whole time but it has been a roller coaster. I am very happy to report that we have had more ups than downs and the other day he agreed to go get help. His BPD has finally effected his school and classes and i guess that was the straw that broke the camels back. I am doubtful that he will stick to it but hoping for the best, that seems to be all i can do these days

I am so physically and mentally exhausted from work and my son and just life i don't even have the energy to fight with him or even bring up topics that have the smallest chance of causing conflict. I did tell him that this therapy is going to be intense they will dig deep and he needs to be completely honest about everything... .it's a safe space and if he really wants help the therapist has to know all the little details and the things good and bad that he has done or that have happened.

A few things i have read said that a therapist will recommend for you to remove yourself from anyone or any place that isn't willing to help you or try to understand you and support you 100%. Is that true? I am looking for opinions or personal experiences regarding this. I haven't told him that part yet because i know his reaction will be "my parents and my house and this miserable town i live in right?" in all honesty yes, that is exactly it... .by no means is it all of it but they are huge parts of it... .today perfect example we had a disagreement he was projecting and playing "tit for tat" as i like to call it i told him something hurt my feelings he brought up something totally irrelevant that i did from 7 months ago... .he calmed down i explained to him that it isn't ok for him to just flip things on me when i point something out all i'm asking for is for him to acknowledge what i'm saying and not play "eye for an eye" or what ever you want to call it... .he said you're right i have no justification for what i did and i'm sorry and we continued talking then his mom beeps in over and over and we get off the phone and i wait 30 minutes and text him and ask why he iddn't call me back he said "i just got into an argument with my mom and i can't even think right now something else she did that i'm holding against you right... .just let me be please" i didn't respond 2 hours later i get "my entire day is ruined again i'm just gonna do what i do everyday... .just like everybody wants... .sit in my room alone and please do what i expect and make this situation about you"  that was about 15 min ago and i have yet to reply... .there is so much i want to say but i dont even know what to do at this point... .things have been decent with us the last couple of weeks and i feel like its all gone now

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Mutt]

A few things i have read said that a therapist will recommend for you to remove yourself from anyone or any place that isn't willing to help you or try to understand you and support you 100%. Is that true?

I can’t speak from experience lostandconfused6, 100% seems so black and white what if you can’t turn to anyone else because you’ve burned every bridge and your friend, family member or SO is supporting you most of the time but not all of time isn’t that better than no support? I agree if you’re not getting support that’s not an optimal setting. Maybe someone else can speak for this?

[Radcliff]

i am beyond pooped... .

Try this.

I am very happy to report that we have had more ups than downs and the other day he agreed to go get help.

That is fantastic news!

I did tell him that this therapy is going to be intense they will dig deep and he needs to be completely honest about everything... .it's a safe space and if he really wants help the therapist has to know all the little details and the things good and bad that he has done or that have happened.

A few things i have read said that a therapist will recommend for you to remove yourself from anyone or any place that isn't willing to help you or try to understand you and support you 100%. Is that true? I am looking for opinions or personal experiences regarding this.

It sounds like you are taking responsibility for the success of his therapy, getting involved with preparing him and setting his expectations.  Do you see any risks here?

i get "my entire day is ruined again i'm just gonna do what i do everyday... .just like everybody wants... .sit in my room alone and please do what i expect and make this situation about you"  that was about 15 min ago and i have yet to reply... .there is so much i want to say but i dont even know what to do at this point... .things have been decent with us the last couple of weeks and i feel like its all gone now

First, I am so sorry that you're experiencing something that so many of us have experienced -- enjoying the good times and then feeling that it's gone away when there is an episode.  It is so discouraging.

Are you feeling an urge to jump in and make him feel better here?  Is that typically successful?  How do these episodes typically resolve, in other words how does he eventually get back to a calmer place?

WW

[Starchild250]

Hello,
     I am new to this forum, but if it makes you feel any better I am hiding in my room right now too. My husband of 8 years just started counseling a few months ago. Sadly, I was very brainwashed and it took a long time to figure out what was wrong with him. I read that people with BPD need years of therapy, but the recovery rate is relatively decent. He's agreed to see a therapist several times over the years. 3 or 4 times he actually went, but he just charmed the pants off them until they wouldn't give him anymore meds and then he quit.
     This time is different. He said our son gave him a look that reminded him of himself at that age. Before he went I advised him to be honest also. He was honest about the things he knew he'd done (not counting the things he can't remember correctly because of dissociation). Therapists are supposed to be supportive. It's called "unconditional positive regard". Mine is very perceptive (I read BPDs usually are about people). If he sensed his therapist wasn't supportive I know he would quit.
     I think it's working this time. He's not trying to up his meds and he's coming home with all sorts of calming techniques that he's using. It's an up and down where he'll improve quit a bit and then go back, but I read that's normal.
     At the same time I sought therapy as well. The abuse takes a toll. Even if it's just emotional abuse (which it definitely sounds like your experiencing). A person needs help to undue the damage before they become messed up too and tools to avoid enabling. I started doing a few things differently and his behavior improved immediately just from that. Take care of yourself!

[lostandconfused6]

I can’t speak from experience lostandconfused6, 100% seems so black and white what if you can’t turn to anyone else because you’ve burned every bridge and your friend, family member or SO is supporting you most of the time but not all of time isn’t that better than no support? I agree if you’re not getting support that’s not an optimal setting. Maybe someone else can speak for this?

I think my struggle with this is what if it isn't the right kind of support? example: his parents don't want to deal with his attitude so they continue lying to him and sugar coating things and telling him what he wants to hear and sweeping problems under the rug or telling him the stuff he does is ok and he doesn't need to worry and who ever is telling him differently is wrong (since it's what he wants to hear he is way more prone to listen to it even if 100 other people told him differently). To me this isn't ok and he actually had a breakdown a couple weeks ago and told me that he is so grateful that i'm willing to subject myself to his potential anger and outbursts by telling him the truth because that shows him how much i care about him . He has admitted to me that he feels like we and him alone make so much progress then he goes home and he regresses within a day or 2 because of what goes on with him and his parents.

It's just tough and i somehow always feel like i get the short end of the stick with things when i can with 100% conviction say that i am the only person that he has daily contact with that cares about him getting help not just for us but most importantly himself which in turn i feel will reflect into our relationship and his day to day life.

[lostandconfused6]

Try this.

That is fantastic news!

It sounds like you are taking responsibility for the success of his therapy, getting involved with preparing him and setting his expectations.  Do you see any risks here?

First, I am so sorry that you're experiencing something that so many of us have experienced -- enjoying the good times and then feeling that it's gone away when there is an episode.  It is so discouraging.

Are you feeling an urge to jump in and make him feel better here?  Is that typically successful?  How do these episodes typically resolve, in other words how does he eventually get back to a calmer place?

WW

Yes i do feel that there are risks involved with me setting to many expectations i have encouraged him to read a few books and articles i found so he can see for himself and it kind of frees me from the potential risks if something bad comes from this. That's why i am cautious. On the other hand when he is "surprised" or "blind sided" with things i have seen them spiral out of control and send him into crazy deep depressions. Should i not talk about it with him?

Thank you, and yes it is very discouraging i try to be optimistic and hope for the best then when it is taken from me it's like it hurts worse every time. I almost relate it to a little girl having a toy taken from her. I know that sounds very childish but to that little girl that is the most important thing in the world to her and it was just taken away with no warning. That's exactly how i feel.

I absolutely want to jump in and start apologizing and asking him to please not be mad at me but i am trying my hardest not to apologize for things that i didn't do wrong. He has asked me in the past to just let him cool down and then things will be ok and he won't be mean to me, for a long time i refused and thought texting and calling and asking questions was the right thing to do, but out of respect for him i have tried to do what he has asked. The couple times situations have came up and i have done this it has worked. I told him i love you and i'm on my way home from work he said he was laying down and he's upset and iddn't want to be mean that's why he wasn't talking 20 min later he said he was going to get a haircut then he called me a little while later and apologized and explained what happened with his mom i showed empathy towards it.

Then this happens... .he gets home his dad comes up to his car (he lives with his parents) and tells him don't park there you need to move so he gets back in his car and then i hear womans voice in the background and he's telling her very quietly "shhhh stop it shhhh" then he says (my name) I need to go i need to get this stuff out of my car and get inside i said what women were you just telling to shhhhh and he said my mom then said say hi mom she said hey courtney then he said he was telling her to shhhh because she was talking crap about his dad and he didn't want him to hear it then start a fight (which does happen often)... .the reason this is unsettling to me is because we have had some issues with a girl in the past and one of them was her talking to his mom and "popping up" at his house and he says it doesn't happen anymore but part of me doesn't believe it... .i am not allowed at his house because of the way his parents are he doesn't want me around them... .part of me wants to believe this, because i have witnessed how they are many times, the other scared little girl part of me thinks it has something to do with that girl. My anxiety is super high today ... .i feel his mom would cover things for him if he explained it to her in a certain way. i feel the solution to give me peace of mind is for me to be allowed over there at least a couple times a month (since that's all i would be able to go anyway) i'm sorry that was alot i just don't have anyone else to talk to about this that could potentially help me make sense of it.

[lostandconfused6]

Hello,
     I am new to this forum, but if it makes you feel any better I am hiding in my room right now too. My husband of 8 years just started counseling a few months ago. Sadly, I was very brainwashed and it took a long time to figure out what was wrong with him. I read that people with BPD need years of therapy, but the recovery rate is relatively decent. He's agreed to see a therapist several times over the years. 3 or 4 times he actually went, but he just charmed the pants off them until they wouldn't give him anymore meds and then he quit.
     This time is different. He said our son gave him a look that reminded him of himself at that age. Before he went I advised him to be honest also. He was honest about the things he knew he'd done (not counting the things he can't remember correctly because of dissociation). Therapists are supposed to be supportive. It's called "unconditional positive regard". Mine is very perceptive (I read BPDs usually are about people). If he sensed his therapist wasn't supportive I know he would quit.
     I think it's working this time. He's not trying to up his meds and he's coming home with all sorts of calming techniques that he's using. It's an up and down where he'll improve quit a bit and then go back, but I read that's normal.
     At the same time I sought therapy as well. The abuse takes a toll. Even if it's just emotional abuse (which it definitely sounds like your experiencing). A person needs help to undue the damage before they become messed up too and tools to avoid enabling. I started doing a few things differently and his behavior improved immediately just from that. Take care of yourself!

I feel not remembering things correctly is something that my BPDbf will struggle with. On the other hand he is horrible at reading people which is why i feel the crap situations he gets himself into go on for so long.

I am happy to hear it seems to be working this time!

I am in therapy and have been for a long time and 80 % of the time my therapist agrees with me on things that i view as "normal and needed" such as me being allowed at his house and simple things like that... .of course my BPDbf swears if we asked strangers about some things we don't see eye to eye on that they would agree with him, and i'm sure some would but i know the majority wouldn't... .i try so hard to do things differently because he tells me if i do things will get better and i'll be surprised... .they get better in some areas but not the ones that he knows are most important to me and it gets hard to keep doing things differently and still not getting what he said i would... .he even acknowledges my changed behavior and actions and thanks me but doesn't follow through with what he said he would do.

[Radcliff]

lostandconfused6,

It sounds like you've had some good success by just leaving him alone.  That's great!  That was my experience as well.  When my wife was very upset, it often didn't help for me to get involved.  If I thought I could make a difference, I'd try some validation, and if she seemed to be open to more and it seemed to be helping, I'd give more.  But if she was very angry at me, I knew I just had to give her space.  Sometimes 20 minutes, sometimes two days.  Once I realized that, there was less wear and tear on me.  This is kind of a weird analogy, but like a cat up in a tree.  Once I realized that the cat always came down from the tree in its own time, I stopped calling it, stopped stressing about it, and just let it come down naturally.

I don't have a magic solution to your "other girl" concerns.  I find that when I start to get really anxious about something that might be going on based on one piece of information, I try to not let my brain spin away with things.  I file the bit of info away, and tell myself to wait a certain period (an hour, a day, a week, it depends) without acting or worrying more.  I've had some great experiences where I did that, and a second bit of information came in later that made me realize I didn't have anything to worry about.  Back to the girl, file away that experience, and just keep living life.  See if any more concerning things happen, or not.

WW

[lostandconfused6]

Wentworth

Thank you for sharing that analogy it makes a lot of sense... .sometimes when my emotions are running high it's hard for me to think clearly and not keep pushing the issue because i want a resolution so badly but i have been trying my hardest to be more mindful and tell myself that it will pass and it will be ok if i leave him alone for a couple of hours

and you are definitely right about filing the info away many times he has done something that seemed a little off and i didn't say anything then a few minutes or even a couple days later things have surfaced that prove he was telling the truth... .there are still some things i don't trust like with his phone sometimes he is secretive when he looks at it sometimes he isn't and i promised i wouldn't look through it ever again so i am trying to hold to that... .

last night i had pointed something out that he lied about that day and he caught himself in the lie and all heck broke loose he started screaming at me telling me he's going to leave me and if i brought it up again he was going to make sure i could never speak again then told me if i didn't shut up that he was going to go home call that girl and f*uck her and videotape it and send it to me... .i just sat there crying and didnt say anything... .we were in a hotel in a room next to my parents i just wanted it to stop... .then all of a sudden he tells me he tried to kill himself 3 times 3 months ago, 7 months ago, and a year ago... .he is known to say things like this when he knows he has hurt me and don't something that isn't ok and really crappy i guess to take the attention away from him and make me feel bad for him... .but i dont know how to handle this?

[Radcliff]

i just sat there crying and didnt say anything... .we were in a hotel in a room next to my parents i just wanted it to stop... .then all of a sudden he tells me he tried to kill himself 3 times 3 months ago, 7 months ago, and a year ago... .he is known to say things like this when he knows he has hurt me and don't something that isn't ok and really crappy i guess to take the attention away from him and make me feel bad for him... .but i dont know how to handle this?

Let me start by asking how you handled it in that instance?  Are there any other examples you can give?

WW

[lostandconfused6]

I just asked him what led to him making him feel that was the answer or only way to deal? He said i'm not telling you i hate you and there is a lot i don't tell you and never will... .i calmly said when you are ready to talk i'll be here to listen. After a hour or so and a couple other minor dysregulations  things were ok... .of course to him it was all rainbows and puppies again but i was still hurt by what had happened and worried about what he told me

In other instances like this he had gone completely over the edge and was threatening to shoot me and all kinds of stuff then all of a sudden 3 hours later he was in the ER with a ruptured esophagus but refused to let me go there he texted me told me he was going in for a CT scan and 2 min later my friend saw him walking around a store... .

He has told me he is physically ill and can't get out of bed and he's spitting up blood and going to urgent care and then 10 min later he's fine and on the way to my house... .

It is something that makes no sense to me at all 

[Radcliff]

I just asked him what led to him making him feel that was the answer or only way to deal? He said i'm not telling you i hate you and there is a lot i don't tell you and never will... .i calmly said when you are ready to talk i'll be here to listen. After a hour or so and a couple other minor dysregulations  things were ok... .of course to him it was all rainbows and puppies again but i was still hurt by what had happened and worried about what he told me

I think you dealt with it well!  For someone who'd just had the attention suddenly pulled away from her concerns, you have the presence of mind to be calm, not take any bait, and tell him you were there for him.  Then you rode out a little more turbulence.  I'm sorry after it all ended, though, you were feeling worse.  While it's hard to make those feelings of worry go away, were you able to realize that there was a good chance he was just making things up to get just exactly that emotional reaction from you?

In other instances like this he had gone completely over the edge and was threatening to shoot me and all kinds of stuff then all of a sudden 3 hours later he was in the ER with a ruptured esophagus but refused to let me go there he texted me told me he was going in for a CT scan and 2 min later my friend saw him walking around a store... .

He has told me he is physically ill and can't get out of bed and he's spitting up blood and going to urgent care and then 10 min later he's fine and on the way to my house... .

It is something that makes no sense to me at all 

I'm sorry you have to deal with these trust-busting experiences.  Over time, have you been able to refine your "baloney detector" to sense when something might be up, so you don't get pulled through an emotional wringer as badly?  Are you able to say what most commonly triggers these mistruth episodes?

WW

[lostandconfused6]

With him i've always been able to put my feelings aside and focus on him (even when i think i shouldn't) no matter how upset i am and maybe that's my mistake? I definitely realized it... .he has told me before when he is seeing red and responding to me in a rage he will say anything to me to get his way, and if he hurts me and makes me sad he feels that it will stop what is going on. He said "i put words together that i know will hurt you but i don't mean them it's just fickle, i know i sound ridiculous but i get to the point that i can't think clearly so i resort to that". It's disheartening to me because i feel like we come to an agreement about certain things and he follows it for weeks, yes i know no one is perfect and it won't always be followed, and i'll bring up something he forgot to do or something he lied about in a very calm way and about 20% of the time he is understanding the other 80% he flies off the handle and turns it into something its not then blames me and "the way i act" he doesn't see it's a reaction to his actions he negates every single thing he did to cause this and just starts from where i started crying or started asking questions and says if i acted better he wouldn't be like this... .in stead of saying i'm sorry ill try not to do it again or i don't agree with what you are saying but i understand your point of view then moving on from it... .instead he all this horrible stuff comes flying out of his mouth and makes the situation so much worse and causes even more issues... .


Oh yes absolutely, when he isn't in my face and he is pulling the mistruth stuff i laugh it off (to myself of course) which is easier to do when he isn't in my face calling me names and threatening to leave me, because it never fails it is always when he feels bad about something he did to me or when something is going on with me... .a small background of me i have MS and it has been progressing and i have been extremely tired from that and work and just life and i told him last night i'm starting to worry he said "i'm tired to babe"... .i mean really? then he says he sits down and tries to figure things out with us and it's like he can't hold a thought in his head... .short of writing a list i have told him the few small things i would like to see happen... .i have spelled it ou for him and 2 days later he says idk what to do to make you happy... .i have written letters, talked in person, on the phone, and through texts... .i guess maybe a numbered list is the only other thing to do... .and of course the petty little girl in me also feels that other girl has some effect on this i try to put it out of my head but he doesn't realize how much more he puts it back in my head when he says the things he did sat night about going home and sleeping with her and videotaping it... .

[Radcliff]

lostandconfused6, I am so sorry that you have to cope with such discouraging behavior.  I'm also sorry to hear about the MS and its progression.

What does your support system look like outside of this relationship?  Do you have close friends?  Family nearby who are supportive?  Other communities (activities, church, volunteering, work friends) that give you comfort?

WW

[lostandconfused6]

i have a couple friends that do and my parents try but they don't fully understand BPD so a lot of the response i get from my friends is to just walk away... .i'll be honest though it hurts that people i'm not very close to are more worried about my MS and not stressing me out than the 1 person that is supposed to care more than anything... .and i appreciate everyone in my life and what they do for me... .and idk how to explain it but it's like no matter what he can ruin any kind of hope i have or good feeling with his crappy responses

This morning he was having a rough time because of school and he's going to be late for his test (which of course isn't his fault for leaving 30 min late it's the stop light that took to long) and he isn't prepared because he stayed up all night monday night preparing to go to a tutor that i found for him for a certain subject and he assumed that the tutor would be able to help him with another subject that wasn't discussed between them, he went to his house yesterday and the guy couldn't help him with it... .so he skipped his afternoon class at school goes home and goes to sleep then wakes up and stays up all night again he tells me this morning that tutor is the reason he will fail... . and i put all my stuff going on to the side and i talked to him and tried to help him and we hung up the phone on good terms i texted him a few min. later and told him i understand his frustration and i'm here and i love you very much... .no response for 30 minutes i asked are you ok? he said Wow do i have to respond to everything? i prob shouldn't have but i said when i tell you i love you and i'm being supportive it is beyond rude for you not to say anything... .of course no response... .he is doing nothing right now but still can't respond

[Radcliff]

i texted him a few min. later and told him i understand his frustration and i'm here and i love you very much... .no response for 30 minutes i asked are you ok? he said Wow do i have to respond to everything? i prob shouldn't have but i said when i tell you i love you and i'm being supportive it is beyond rude for you not to say anything... .of course no response... .he is doing nothing right now but still can't respond

First off, great job validating!  I'm sure it was disappointing not to have a more satisfying reaction to your validation.

In a relationship, the one being pursued, the one going slower, has the power.  If you follow up with a second message, that may feel like chasing to him, and he may pull away.

So he came back to you with "Wow do I have to respond to everything" which must have been pretty upsetting to you after you were so caring and validated so nicely.  You reacted emotionally, and it didn't go well.  Can you think of any ways you could have thought about the situation and acted to avoid fanning the flames, but also manage your emotions a bit so you weren't miserable?

WW

[lostandconfused6]

First off, great job validating!  I'm sure it was disappointing not to have a more satisfying reaction to your validation.

In a relationship, the one being pursued, the one going slower, has the power.  If you follow up with a second message, that may feel like chasing to him, and he may pull away.

So he came back to you with "Wow do I have to respond to everything" which must have been pretty upsetting to you after you were so caring and validated so nicely.  You reacted emotionally, and it didn't go well.  Can you think of any ways you could have thought about the situation and acted to avoid fanning the flames, but also manage your emotions a bit so you weren't miserable?

WW

Honestly the only thing i can think of is having not said anything

[Radcliff]

Honestly the only thing i can think of is having not said anything

That could be good.

OK, so there were two things you said:
"Are you OK?" and
"beyond rude"

You already said that "beyond rude" wasn't helpful.  True.  It's hard when our emotions are exposed, and we're not always perfect, so when something like that happens, let yourself be human, and just make a note for next time.

"Are you OK?" is totally understandable.  You may have been legitimately worried about him, and almost certainly were looking for him to reciprocate your kindness, or at least acknowledge it.  I've found myself in that exact situation before.  Our pwBPD have such volatile emotions, it's totally natural for us to be a little on edge about how they're doing!  If she doesn't respond when I text, I wonder, "Is she mad?  What will I be coming home to?"  I found that adding energy to it, and reaching out to her again, never worked.  If instead, I said to myself, "Take a deep breath, then wait an hour."  Or wait four hours.  A lot of the time, it would turn out that she was just busy with something and couldn't respond.  When I get anxious, waiting for a while before doing something has been a very successful strategy for me.  I don't have to tell myself not to do anything at all, I just have to say "wait a bit" which is easier to accept than saying "do nothing."

Does that sound helpful at all?

WW

[lostandconfused6]

That is extremely helpful, When i ask "are you ok?" i do it because that is how he told me to text him when he doesn't respond for 30 min or a hour... .typically i get a favorable result from doing this... .this day i did not... .

I am under so much stress and i know it is spilling over to my tools and skills that i have learned and i tend to slip up when things are going well and get a little to "relaxed" but it never fails i am blind sided by something i couldn't have ever fathomed could have been taken out of context or result in such a blow up or rage he did it again at 3 this morning... .

i am just exhausted

[Radcliff]

That is extremely helpful, When i ask "are you ok?" i do it because that is how he told me to text him when he doesn't respond for 30 min or a hour... .typically i get a favorable result from doing this... .this day i did not... .

If you typically get good results, don't be blown off course by one incident.  If he said 30-60 minutes, maybe move it more towards 60.  Being able to relax yourself and wait will influence your attitude (more relaxed and patient) and he'll probably sense it.

I am under so much stress and i know it is spilling over to my tools and skills that i have learned and i tend to slip up when things are going well and get a little to "relaxed" but it never fails i am blind sided by something i couldn't have ever fathomed could have been taken out of context or result in such a blow up or rage he did it again at 3 this morning... .

Getting relaxed and then committing a "BPD error" is classic.  If I had a dollar for every time I did that... .  Errors will happen.  He is not going to be understanding of them, so you will have to work doubly hard to be compassionate with yourself.  You cannot be perfect.  And we will also not likely stop being blindsided every so often.  I'm sorry you experienced a blow up at 3 this morning!  Can you tell us what happened?

i am just exhausted

This may sound silly, but we get exhausted by expending energy.  Are there places where you're expending energy for no benefit?  Can you imagine any changes that are entirely within your control, not relying on his behaviors, that could save your energy and help you feel less exhausted?

WW

[lostandconfused6]

Sorry for the late reply end of the month in my line of work is crazy to say the least... .oh and i have strep throat yay me 

I have set something up with my friend that if i feel the need to text him to soon to text her or to text what i want to say to him to her and give myself time to process and think... .which i think goes with what you said about my attitude being influenced and i also need to know that even when i am doing things this way there is a chance it will not always work and just have my tools prepared if it doesn't

at 3 am he texted me 6 hours after i had texted and said good night and i said are you ok? and he flew off the handle saying if you want to make a big deal about this then i can do it alone because i won't be seeing him saturday and i'm a selfish b*tch and i better learn to keep my stupid mouth shut... .i dont care about anyone but myself and he loves me but has to teach me a lesson... .well fast forward to friday he tells me he's sorry and that he loves me and he is going to see me satuday and he hasn't left me YET because obviously what he sees with me is worth more than what he can see without me... .so i let it go and things are great friday and sat then he gets to my house sat evening and he just has this terrible energy coming from him and he keeps making digs and rude comments i try not to feed into it... .then he tells me while we are watching a movie if i want him to be sweet he has conditions i said are you kidding me? you treat me like i am this terrible person that has done wrong and needs to make up for it... .he said well that's how you treat me i said yes because you have done wrong... .well we go to bed things are fine we wake up at 7 the next morning i asked if i could please sleep a little longer and he jumps up starts getting dressed tells me he's leaving because i am inconsiderate and he isn't going to lay there and stare at the ceiling then tells me he is sick of me and my know it all attitude and i'm obnoxious and he hates me and my son and he can't live his life with someone as terrible as me... .i asked what happened and he said nothing this is how i have felt for a long time you disgust me and i am not happy but you dont care because you are selfish and he just kept going on and on about how he can't be with me because "i'm always right" and no matter how much good i have done for him it will never over shadow how right i am and he refuses to be with someone like that... .then called me a cry baby and told me this is my fault and if i don't let him leave he will cheat on me again and if i knew half the ___ he had done i would be the one leaving him  but he will never tell me what it is and if i want him to make changes then i have to make changes ... .the only thing i could say is how can you do this? i don't understand... .because he has told me so many times how great i am and how he needs to do better and put in more work

i was so blindsided then i finally put together some words and said (which prob wasn't the right thing to say) "i had no idea some of the things i did bothered you much i deserve the chance to show you that i am able to adapt and change certain things you just told me friday as much as i annoy you and make you mad that you love me no matter what, then all of a sudden 2 days later with no fight no dis agreement nothing you blind side me... .if you tell me things are ok that i do i don't know to fix them or stop doing them please give me the chance to do that don't throw me away" he said don't make me regret this or you'll regret it even more... .he surprised me at work yesterday and is supposed to come back today but we will see... .i am very shaken up about this weekend... .tomorrow we are going to see a hypnotherapist i am praying this helps his anxiety and stress

i am a huge believer in energies, karma, all the astrological and zodiac stuff well mercury retrograde started on the 22nd which was exactly the time that he had first blown up at me out of no where... .3 signs are effected the most and of course he is the 1 that is most effected by it... .i sent him an article sunday night about it (he's big on proof and studies) and he said he agrees with it and he had no idea before i pointed it out... .i just don't know where to go from here

as far as being exhausted it's from him... .my MS plays into it but his mood swings and all the attention he needs is exhausting

[Radcliff]

Whew, lostandconfused6, I am so sorry for that weekend.  It sounds so awful and hurtful to have had to be on the receiving end of all of that.  There is no way that you could have "played it perfectly" and made all that stuff not happen.  It is totally not fair, but is the nature of the illness.

Do you use "do not disturb" mode on your phone?  Would it be reasonable to set your phone so you don't see any texts in the wee hours of the morning?  Nobody is at their best at 3am. 

One tool that can help make things less bad is to learn to avoid justifying, arguing, defending, or explaining (JADE).  Sorry if you've already heard this; I quickly scanned this thread and didn't see it.  We may be right in the things we say, but it doesn't help an inflamed situation.  I've used a delay strategy with myself as well.  I'll make a note of what I felt was unfair, and wait until it's a calm time.  Often just by waiting, I realize it doesn't matter that much to me any more.  If it really still matters, I'll pick a time when things are calm to address the issue.  Instead of JADE, we can practice how to validate and avoid being invalidating.

Again, I want to be crystal clear that introducing these tools is not lumping responsibility for what happened this weekend on you.  We folk who are working at "Bettering" sometimes think if we can get expert enough, we can completely solve all problems.  We are at risk of taking all the responsibility on ourselves.  We can't do this.  But we can definitely avoid making things worse, and sometimes make them better.

Tell us what you think about the material in those links.  Does it sound applicable?  Is this new stuff for you or have I just told you something you already knew?

WW

[lostandconfused6]

That is a great idea! I am going to start doing that around midnight and set it to go off at 7:30... .

Not JADEing is one of the things i forget often because i get so worked up and frustrated sometimes or i'm too relaxed and speak a little to freely i guess... .Delaying the things i say could really help i think

I have heard that stuff before but i feel that it is always good to be reminded of those tools because they do help a lot... .i preach process all day to my employees and when they listen it works... .i need to do the same in regards to this... .i know nothing is fool proof but i feel it will help

Today he had texted me then i didnt hear from him for hours of course i worried but i waited and said are you ok? i'm just checking on you and nothing... .then i checked my email and he had sent me 1 saying his phone has broken which he has been having problems with it... of course my anxiety is slightly heightened but i am trying not to think this is a plan for him to not talk to me or get out of seeing me... .i simply thanked him for emailing and said if there is anything i can do please let me know he said i love you and i will keep you updated i'm in the process of getting it fixed... .so we will see

[Radcliff]

lostandconfused6, it sounds like you know what to do! 
Applying this stuff in real life is messy.  It seems so easy when we read about it online and then when it really happens, we're upset, or it's 3am, or two things happen at once and we don't have a plan for that, etc.!  One of the most important things is to realize that it's as much about us as it is about them.  Folks that get stuck on that have trouble making progress.  But you've got that nailed.

Keep us posted!

WW

[Radcliff]

lostandconfused6,

How has it been going?

WW

[lostandconfused6]

It's been good for the most part... .he is working on not fighting or blowing up over assumptions that he makes and also evaluating situations before he gets worked up and angry and asking if it's worth it or if it will solve anything... .i've seen a tiny bit of this and i am hopeful he is really going to stick to it but unfortunately i have my doubts i just try my hardest not to voice them and to be extra over the top appreciative when he does do something nice even if it doesn't work out in the best way... .

It's just a guessing game most days idk if i'm going to get sweet, caring, and understanding or mean, assuming, negative, lying, and raging... .i'm hoping in the coming months he can really make some big steps... .it's just tough for me not to pin so much of the lack of progress on his living environment... .i can say honestly that every single day his family has done something to put him in a bad mood or upset him, some days are much worse than others but they are all bad and of course 75% of the time in some way it is taken out on me... .he says he won't move out until he's in the right situation so he doesn't have to run back... .my thing is that he is never going to be in the right situation or make any kind of real progress as long as he is in that house... .i get where he is coming from but i told him yesterday he needs to figure out a way to make it work and get out of that house because all he is doing is hurting himself staying there... .i just can't sugar coat certain things anymore... .it's been to long and to many excuses

Do you have suggestions for a better way to approach that?

[Radcliff]

The question of him moving out of his family's home is a tough one -- it could be a boundaries issue; it's his life, and you can't control it.  On the other hand, in healthy relationships, we're able to give someone honest feedback.  Proceed with caution.

What do you think the various obstacles are to him moving out?  Some may seem real to you, others may be in his perceptions and seem real enough to him.

WW

[lostandconfused6]

He said because everytime he has done it in the past he has had to run home with his tail between his legs... .my response is no you didn't have to you chose to you are a young smart able bodied male and you are able to do whatever it takes to make it on your own... .you took the easy way out

I also look at it like this it's situational he moved in with a bunch of different worthless jobless girls with no drive goals or future that used him... .i'm not 1 of those and he knows it that's why it makes me so mad when he brings up all the other times he moved out because of the situation and the people that were involved... he just says he wants to have everything he needs to be in the right situation he needs to get out and stay out of his parents house... .but as long as he is there i feel it won't happen

I told him he needs to tell himself that he can't go back and needs to do whatever he can to make it work... .and when we live together i can help... .i am financially in a place that i can do that... .we would be a team and it isn't all on his shoulders... .it's totally different than anything he has ever moved into before... .that's what frustrates me so much

his mom needs to cut the cord and leave him alone

[Radcliff]

OK, I understand better, thank you.

So you are talking about him specifically moving in with you?

Am I misremembering or did you say earlier that it's helpful that he lives separately from you so you can have some space?  It definitely helps to understand that his FOO living situation isn't great.  I'm just trying to put all the puzzle pieces on the table at once.

WW

[lostandconfused6]

OK, I understand better, thank you.

So you are talking about him specifically moving in with you?

Am I misremembering or did you say earlier that it's helpful that he lives separately from you so you can have some space?  It definitely helps to understand that his FOO living situation isn't great.  I'm just trying to put all the puzzle pieces on the table at once.

WW

i replied in the other thread  after yesterday and last night i feel that he needs to not be alone but he needs to be in a stable enviroment and i do feel that would be with me but i would be ok with him just getting away from the toxic situation he lives in now