NC since police came over

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

Hi,

A couple of days ago I had to call the police to have my uBPDex to leave my house.

We were in a relationship for 8 years until 2 years ago he left and has been trying to get back together ever since. We have a 4 year old child together and his daughter from his first marriage also lives with us. When he left his daughter stayed with me.

He hasn't tried to establish any contact with me since the police came over and made him leave the house. We don't have any kind of agreement or custody arrangement in place so should I send him an email saying how the kids are doing and when/how he wants to see them?

I really don't want to have any contact with him and don't even know how we would begin to make an arrangement after the way he was forced to leave, I sure don't want to face his rage.

[MiaP]

Hi,

A couple of days ago I had to call the police to have my uBPDex to leave my house.

We were in a relationship for 8 years until 2 years ago he left and has been trying to get back together ever since. We have a 4 year old child together and his daughter from his first marriage also lives with us. When he left his daughter stayed with me.

He hasn't tried to establish any contact with me since the police came over and made him leave the house. We don't have any kind of agreement or custody arrangement in place so should I send him an email saying how the kids are doing and when/how he wants to see them?

I really don't want to have any contact with him and don't even know how we would begin to make an arrangement after the way he was forced to leave, I sure don't want to face his rage.

[Mutt]

Im sorry that you and your family went through this. What do you think about sorting out the arrangements before you message him?

[ForeverDad]

I looked back at some posts last weekend and saw that he raged while you were at his house.  In his mind his house is his home turf.  And then the police got involved a few days ago when he wouldn't leave your house.  Things have gotten worse and he was more aggressive, your home is your turf.  He was pushing boundaries of proper behaviors both times but for sure being at your home qualifies you to have your firm boundaries.

However, now the police have been involved.  Have they ever been called before?  If not, then this is new.  Sometimes we write, If it has been threatened or even just contemplated, it is likely to happen given enough time.

So now the conflict is at a new level.  You may need to maintain your strong boundaries going forward if you are to return to the lower conflict of the past year, if it's even possible.  (I know when I called the police on my spouse that Ended the marriage immediately, her increasingly common rants and rages, in her mind, thereafter turned into War.)  However, it may not be that bad for you since you've lived apart for a year or more.  Likely with some careful management you can get back to the prior, um, ceasefire status.

It appears you may need to make a new boundary... .if one is not set then the risk is higher that scenes such as these in the past will will become the new normal.  "Neither of us enters the other's home without clear invitation and if any conflict arises the visitor leaves and is not blocked from leaving."

Apparently he is still seeing the children a few times each week for brief visits?  Do you trust him with the children while you're not present?  If so then maybe he should see them at his home.  The point is that (1) your home must always be a safe place for you and the children and (2) the children (and you if you enter) must be safe when at his home too.  Likely their visits will be shorter and less frequent at his home but that's okay.

Would a new boundary like that avoid or reduce future conflict?

Remember that your history as primary parent with majority time will mean a lot if this ever goes to court.  So don't be intimidated or guilted into Gifting Away the authority and status you have now.  He can demand and throw himself on the sidewalk and kick and scream like a 3 year old child but the reality is you are the parent with history of primary parenting.  Yes, you are not the legal parent of his daughter but it's possible she is getting old enough to declare where she wants to live if family court gets involved.

Previously you wrote that he had meds but wasn't in therapy.  BPD is largely a disorder of cognition, how a person thinks.  Meds may reduce the extremes, but the real answer is therapy that is diligently applied in the person's life.  Without therapy and without him applying it in his life, he's unlikely to improve and may even get worse over time.  That's where good boundaries come in.  People with BPD feel enabled to behave like a bull in a china shop, firm boundaries minimize the breakage and chaos.

[MiaP]

What do you think about sorting out the arrangements before you message him?

I'm trying to arrange a meeting with a lawyer asap, hopefully before having any kind of communication with exBPD.

However, now the police have been involved.  Have they ever been called before?  If not, then this is new.  Sometimes we write, If it has been threatened or even just contemplated, it is likely to happen given enough time.

It was the first time I called the police, I had contemplated that option in my mind because as you say things have gotten worse lately and he has become more aggressive. Another episode last week was when he showed up at my place of work, and I told him (again... .) that our relationship was over - he said he was going to kill himself... .

A few days later at my house, he started raging, accusing his older daugther of a bunch of things and grabbed 3 bottles of wine and went to the living room "to drink and wait for me because I HAD TO listen to him". He has had problem with alcohol and violence in the past and that was what did it for me, this time it wasn't only me in the house, I had 2 kids there. I called the police.
 

So now the conflict is at a new level.  You may need to maintain your strong boundaries going forward if you are to return to the lower conflict of the past year, if it's even possible.  (I know when I called the police on my spouse that Ended the marriage immediately, her increasingly common rants and rages, in her mind, thereafter turned into War.)  However, it may not be that bad for you since you've lived apart for a year or more.  Likely with some careful management you can get back to the prior, um, ceasefire status.

Hopefully this has ended our relationship for good, unfortunately I doubt that we can return to the "ceasefire status". That status was only mantained because I kept accepting a lot of unacceptable behaviour, being afraid and compliant.

For the past 2 years, ever since he first left, I have been trying to live in that "ceasefire status". During that period I first found out about BPD, I tried to improve communication, to get him back to a sort of baseline (the way I think he was in for a few years before the birth of our child). Our relationship was never the same, I tried as hard as I could to mantain a certain peace at home, mostly for the kids I have to admit. 

Can you please describe what "war" meant in your case? Court actions? I have been threatned with that.

It appears you may need to make a new boundary... .if one is not set then the risk is higher that scenes such as these in the past will will become the new normal.  "Neither of us enters the other's home without clear invitation and if any conflict arises the visitor leaves and is not blocked from leaving."

He does need strong boundaries and clear rules, I always tried to say "you can come and see the children any time, you can spend as much time as you want with them, there's no problem if you want to see them more often" - it did not work well.

Apparently he is still seeing the children a few times each week for brief visits?  Do you trust him with the children while you're not present?  If so then maybe he should see them at his home.  The point is that (1) your home must always be a safe place for you and the children and (2) the children (and you if you enter) must be safe when at his home too.  Likely their visits will be shorter and less frequent at his home but that's okay.

Lately he would come to my house and sleep over a few nights a week (I guess it was like we were together but living in separate houses - trying to make the relationship work... .).

I trust that he will not harm them physically, not sure if he will be able to cope with taking care of the younger one for more than a few hours. When he is alone with both, D15 and D4, he just lets D15 take care of the youngest as if he is not the adult in charge.
At least for now D15 doesn't want to see him.

Likely their visits will be shorter and less frequent at his home but that's okay.

I think this would work, just have to figure out a way to start communicating with him.

Remember that your history as primary parent with majority time will mean a lot if this ever goes to court.  So don't be intimidated or guilted into Gifting Away the authority and status you have now.  He can demand and throw himself on the sidewalk and kick and scream like a 3 year old child but the reality is you are the parent with history of primary parenting.  Yes, you are not the legal parent of his daughter but it's possible she is getting old enough to declare where she wants to live if family court gets involved.

He has done exactly that! Threatning with court, even thought he can't even get D4 to bed without losing his temper or take care of her for long periods of time, so I don't really know what he has in mind. Keeps projecting that *I* don't let him be with his daughters, *I* drive them away from him, etc.
D15 will be 16 very soon and at this point she is able to declare what she wants to do. In her case I'm worried about the effect of all this psycologically but legaly I don't think there will be any problems.

Previously you wrote that he had meds but wasn't in therapy. 

He started therapy a few months ago but last time we spoke he said that he had cancelled his appointment. In the light of recent events I strongly doubt he'll go back.

Thank you very much for your helpfull reply and for taking the time to read through my previous posts.

[ForeverDad]

It was the first time I called the police, I had contemplated that option in my mind because as you say things have gotten worse lately and he has become more aggressive. Another episode last week was when he showed up at my place of work, and I told him (again... .) that our relationship was over - he said he was going to kill himself... .

Actually, when I wrote "if it has been contemplated... ." I was referring to him contemplating creating incidents and raising the conflict.  You can contemplate all you want because we know you are doing it for all the right "reasonably normal person" reasons!

A few days later at my house, he started raging, accusing his older daugther of a bunch of things and grabbed 3 bottles of wine and went to the living room "to drink and wait for me because I HAD TO listen to him". He has had problem with alcohol and violence in the past and that was what did it for me, this time it wasn't only me in the house, I had 2 kids there. I called the police.

One good boundary, if you haven't already set it, is that he does not drink alcohol at your home.  Or does not arrive intoxicated.  That may seem overly severe but the reality is that once he starts drinking, he doesn't know when to stop himself.  Maybe you can find some level of drinking that is okay, but will he then listen to you when you tell him to stop?
 

Can you please describe what "war" meant in your case? Court actions? I have been threatened with that.

I meant that once I involved the police and we separated, I was permanently blacklisted in her eyes.  I was no longer rescuer Knight in Shining Armor as I was in the early years, I became Mr Evil Personified.  Getting the police involved did ramp up her painting me as Mr Bad Guy but it was headed there anyway, I figured I'd better make a stand before she was fully positioned to dump me and make me look convincingly bad.  She immediately filed allegations I was a child abuser and kept that up, each claim or maneuver getting more and more graphic, for about 5 years.  They pretty much ended when I somehow managed to be declared Legal Guardian (full custody).

For years she never claimed I was abusive to her.  I concluded her being arrested for Threat of DV (four months later ruled Not Guilty since they were not viewed as "imminent" threats) convinced her not to claim that about me.  However, when I was seeking custody and end shared parenting, the decision for Change of Circumstances included a small paragraph that noted she claimed I choked her years before.  I wasn't even asked about it, I think it was included just to be thorough and that her credibility was greatly weakened.

He does need strong boundaries and clear rules, I always tried to say "you can come and see the children any time, you can spend as much time as you want with them, there's no problem if you want to see them more often" - it did not work well.

Because that's not really a boundary.  A boundary sets limits for proper behavior.  Since a person with BPD doesn't want to be limited by boundaries and typically actively fights to smash them, then the boundaries need to be for us.  Example:  You say, ":)on't drink in my home or come intoxicated."  Big whoopee, he can ignore it.  However, you should phrase it better, "If you drink in my home or come intoxicated then you must immediately leave."  Do you see the difference?  You can't stop him from drinking but you can control what then happens, that is, he leaves or the police help him leave.

He started therapy a few months ago but last time we spoke he said that he had cancelled his appointment. In the light of recent events I strongly doubt he'll go back.

It is highly unlikely he can attain recovery on his own.  It is the rare exceptional person who can do that.  BPD pioneer Marsha Linehan revealed she suffered from BPD in her younger years and managed to pioneer recovery therapies such as CBT & DBT.  But I doubt very much that your Ex is another Marsha Linehan devoted to recovery.  So if he's not heavily invested in therapy, assume that you will need good boundaries for the foreseeable future.

[MiaP]

One good boundary, if you haven't already set it, is that he does not drink alcohol at your home.  Or does not arrive intoxicated.  That may seem overly severe but the reality is that once he starts drinking, he doesn't know when to stop himself.  Maybe you can find some level of drinking that is okay, but will he then listen to you when you tell him to stop?

He had problems with alcohol in the past but hasn't touched a drop of alcohol in years, he commited to that, started medication (not therapy at that point) and he was relativly stable for a few years, until our child was born.

Lately, he started threatning he was going to start drinking as he knows that terrifies me to death, because I've seen what it's like when he drinks. So, that's not overly severe.

At this point I am completly blacklisted in his eyes. Still haven't heard from him since the police incident, I'm trying to have a meeting with a lawyer because of the kids situation and to find out if there's any way I can comunicate with him maybe trought the lawyers. I don't want to do anything that will make the level of conflict rise, but I think that contacting him directly will not be good as now I am a monster... .

[ForeverDad]

He had problems with alcohol in the past but hasn't touched a drop of alcohol in years, he committed to that, started medication (not therapy at that point) and he was relatively stable for a few years, until our child was born.

Until your child was born... .the relationship was not locked in, you might have left him with little to hold you back.  But once the baby was born the relationship changed, (1) no longer two but three and (2) now he had Leverage over you for years to come.

Makes me wonder what happened to SD's mother, is she still in SD's life?  Did she leave or was she driven away?

[MiaP]

At that time we were three, him and his daugther and I entered their lives after SD mom had left him (and her daughter). I met him more than a year after his divorce.

I see many similarities in our current situation with what he described to me about his first divorce.

SD doesn't have much contact with her mom because for some reason I never fully understood the mother did not develop a connection to her daugther, it's as if she didn't bond with her.

[ForeverDad]

If I were a betting man I'd bet he somehow had something to do with it.  Of course you've never heard her side of the story, but you won't hear the full truth from him.

[Radcliff]

MiaP,

I want to say how lucky I think SD15 is to have you as a stable role model and influence in her life.  It is wonderful that you are there for her!

When you meet with the lawyer, make sure to work with him on all the possible scenarios of what your ex might do, and what you could do.  You may want to go to court first to get a formal custody order, depending on how things work where you live.  Or it may be better to just wait and see.  Let us know what you learn.

It is great that you are recognizing the need for boundaries and working to implement them.  pwBPD do not like new boundaries.  They can have very strong reactions.  Have you had a chance to read this site's page on setting boundaries?

WW

[MiaP]

Of course you've never heard her side of the story, but you won't hear the full truth from him.

I sure won't... .

Thank you Wentworth. However, feel that I should have done more, or at least sooner. I've let this situation drag for too long and unfortunately it has only gotten worse.

Last update being that he is now on begging and pleading mode, yesterday tried to call me and text me, even saying he had gotten into an accident, I sent one text message saying everthing was all right with the girls and that I did not want to talk to him. I ignored all other calls and texts.

I returned home a few hours later to find him sitting on the doorstep waiting for me... .

[Radcliff]

Thank you Wentworth. However, feel that I should have done more, or at least sooner. I've let this situation drag for too long and unfortunately it has only gotten worse.

Many or even most of us on this board wish we'd done things sooner.  I sure wish I had.  These are difficult situations, we do the best we can, and it takes a while to figure out how deep the problem is, then more time to get help.

Last update being that he is now on begging and pleading mode, yesterday tried to call me and text me, even saying he had gotten into an accident, I sent one text message saying everthing was all right with the girls and that I did not want to talk to him. I ignored all other calls and texts.

Good boundaries! 

I returned home a few hours later to find him sitting on the doorstep waiting for me... .

So you are going to make us ask?   Then what happened?

WW

[MiaP]

I let him in (bad boundaries... .). He talked for a while, I listened mostly, he kept on begging and pleading,even apologising.

I told him him (again) that our relationship is over and that I don't want him to ever como to my house again like that, sitting there and waiting for me on the doorstep.

It appears you may need to make a new boundary... .if one is not set then the risk is higher that scenes such as these in the past will will become the new normal.  "Neither of us enters the other's home without clear invitation and if any conflict arises the visitor leaves and is not blocked from leaving."

I don't want this becoming the new normal, definitely not. Letting him in was a stupid thing to do, I'm trying to avoid contact as much as possible, I know I need to mantain a consistent message but it's been hard!

I've mentioned I read Margalis Fjelstad "Stop caretaking the borderline or narcissist", that book rang so many bells for me, I identified with many of the caretaker behaviours. This is what I'm struggling with right now, letting go of feeling responsible for him. He keeps trying to establish contact to let me know how much pain he is in, how his life makes no sense without me and his daughters (I offered to take them to spend some time with him and he refused! Said he wanted me to come too.)

[Radcliff]

MiaP,

The good news is that you are clear, to us at least, about what you want, and you're being thoughtful and understand when a boundaries slip has happened.  It is hard to define and defend boundaries in the real world, especially when we may have had difficulty with them since our upbringing, and when we're dealing with a relationship that has a history of poor boundaries.

Can you tell us about the boundaries you'd like to put in place with him?

WW

[MiaP]

I want him to realise and accept our relationship is over.

I would like to feel safe and not afraid of him showing up where I live / work.

As for boundaries, for now I think it's important that he doesn't come inside my house and I don't go inside his. Does that seem reasonable?

[Radcliff]

I want him to realise and accept our relationship is over.

Your clarity on this is good.

I would like to feel safe and not afraid of him showing up where I live / work.

You deserve to feel safe.  A key to successful boundary enforcement is to make sure that we are not giving them rewards for violating the boundary.  If you let him in the house, that's a reward.  Even negative attention (arguing in front of the house) is a reward.  Consequences must be boring, delivered with no drama.  You tell him calmly that you won't talk when he shows up at your house, then go inside.  If we give them no rewards nine times, then on the tenth time we slip up and give a reward, it becomes even more difficult to get the behavior to go away.  He may try new behaviors to get your attention, and you will have to figure out how not to reward them.

How about work, can you tell us how recently he showed up at your work?  What did he do?  What did you do?

As for boundaries, for now I think it's important that he doesn't come inside my house and I don't go inside his. Does that seem reasonable?

Yes!  This is totally reasonable!  Your home is your sanctuary.  People should only be there if you want them there.  It is very important for him to respect your boundary on this.

WW

[livednlearned]

I let him in (bad boundaries... .).

Can we reframe this  

You have a lifetime of doing things a certain way, and change will happen incrementally. I found that change was more likely to stick if I was kind to myself.

It sounds like your ex goes through tender cycles, which can make things doubly hard. It pulls on your heart strings and appeals to your humanity. Is that accurate to say?

In moments when this is happening, focus on how you are feeling, what you are doing in that moment, your breathing, your heart rate. Do you freeze up? Or do you feel afraid? Or sad?

Sometimes we skip over the things that help us break down why a boundary is harder to enforce, even down to the physical feelings that go on. I used to have a hard time asserting a boundary verbally because my throat would get so dry, my voice would shake, physically it felt hard to even talk. So I had to come up with non-verbal skills. With my ex, when he was verbally attacking, I would hold up my hand for stop. Then I got to the point where I could say stop.

For your situation, maybe there is something in how you feel that will help you build the exact right strategy for your boundary setting. Maybe it's easier to write him in advance, and state simply what you expect. "I want to hear what your have to say. I will not talk at the house. If you arrive at my house unannounced I will _________."

Maybe it's call the police, maybe you get back in your car and drive away. Maybe you get someone else to come with you to the door and help you stick to your boundary of not speaking to him there, or allowing him in the house.

The point is that you pinpoint where the softness in your boundary comes from, and then create a little bridge to help you through the softest part.

If your soft point is that you want him to feel heard, maybe the bridge is something like, "I will hear what you have to see when there is a trained professional present. If you want to set up an appointment with a skilled counselor, send me the information and we can try to schedule something."

Letting him in was a stupid thing to do

It was not stupid. It was the best you could do at that moment. You will get stronger and more skilled   It takes practice. And it's also important to be kind to yourself. You are teaching yourself something new, on the job, under a lot of pressure.

I identified with many of the caretaker behaviours. This is what I'm struggling with right now, letting go of feeling responsible for him.

I've come to believe it's much more complicated than that. I think helping/saving/rescuing/fixing people becomes so entwined in our sense of self that to let go feels like annihilation -- if we are not this person, then who are we? That can feel terrifying.

Changing that script is no easy feat. You are learning to feel worthy, which can feel painful when you aren't accustomed to feeling that way. Then, on top of that, you have someone who might be suicidal or violent or desperate trying to pull you back to the old ways of being. He's the father of your children and the legal system isn't exactly effective when it comes to mental health issues.

Try to become aware of how you feel physically, then build up from there. How do you feel emotionally? Maybe we can help you brainstorm small wins while setting boundaries that work for you, in those tough moments. It could be that next time you don't ask him any questions while he's pleading. It could be that you drive up and see him, and then drive away. Small steps that you can use to rewire your brain to experience what it feels like to bust through those moments and make boundaries happen for you, even in the small ways. They add up!

It's tough what you're doing. Remember to be kind to yourself  

[MiaP]

Hello,

first of all thank you to all who take a moment of their time to read and answer my posts. I can't begin to tell you how much it's been helpfull to me.

Even negative attention (arguing in front of the house) is a reward.  Consequences must be boring, delivered with no drama.  You tell him calmly that you won't talk when he shows up at your house, then go inside.  If we give them no rewards nine times, then on the tenth time we slip up and give a reward, it becomes even more difficult to get the behavior to go away.  He may try new behaviors to get your attention, and you will have to figure out how not to reward them.

Good reminder, "no drama", "boring" - have to keep that in mind at all times. It's hard when on the inside I'm at the end of my patience.

How about work, can you tell us how recently he showed up at your work?  What did he do?  What did you do?

It was before the police incident, he called me around the time I usually get off work saying he happened to be near by and wanted to talk to me. I agreed because I didn't want him to realise how much him doing that unsettled me. Not sure if that was the right thing to do. That time we talked and I told him our relationship was over (one of the many times... .) and he started threatning suicide.

It sounds like your ex goes through tender cycles, which can make things doubly hard. It pulls on your heart strings and appeals to your humanity. Is that accurate to say?

It's completely accurate. Maybe it's a big part of how I got caught up in this. I'm always waiting for his "tender" self to pop up. Sometimes it does and that works like a reward for me.

In moments when this is happening, focus on how you are feeling, what you are doing in that moment, your breathing, your heart rate. Do you freeze up? Or do you feel afraid? Or sad?

I mostly feel sad and afraid that his rage will get worse (it usually does) once I verbalize the boundary. Another difficulty for me is saying something that I know will hurt him and cause him pain.

I think helping/saving/rescuing/fixing people becomes so entwined in our sense of self that to let go feels like annihilation -- if we are not this person, then who are we? That can feel terrifying.

Exactly!

How do you feel emotionally?

I've been feeling very depressed, I've been on antidepressants for a while and with all this happening my doctor incresead my dosage. I've even been unable to work (which is bad on all levels, including financial... .).

In the last few days we had little contact, but everday without exception he sends me text messages (a lot of them), trying to find something that I'll reply to. I'll kill myself because I won't be able to bear seeing you with another man, the next day was that he wanted us to meet with a lawyer because he was going to move to another country. He has even said "don't worry, I know you want me to leave you alone, so I will", but he never does!

It's tough to live my life normally when I know there's someone who can show up any moment and create havoc.

[MiaP]

Can this kind of behaviour (insistent texting and all the contact attempts) be considered as extinction bursts?

[kells76]

Based on what I've heard from other members, yes, I think that insistent texting and multiple contacts during the (attempted) winding down of a relationship can be considered extinction burts.

[ForeverDad]

The new situation or new boundaries are uncomfortable.  Ex will feel impelled to do whatever possible to revert the relationship back to the way it was, within his or her prior comfort zone.  We all have comfort zones, however while you can ponder your own inclinations and seek improvements, the disordered other is unwilling or unable to be reasonable about it.  So you may be enticed, guilted or pressured by the other into retreating back to prior weak boundaries.

You both are adults.  You each have the right to modify and improve boundaries of behavior.  However, that decision is up to each person.  You can encourage and even support someone to improve boundaries but pressuring, guilting, blaming, etc is not right and unhealthy.  Taken to an extreme that is dysfunctional.

The night he sat on your doorstep and you let him in, you were surprised and caught off guard.  Don't blame yourself for being unprepared to address that possibility.  However, now you know and if that happens again I think you will be better prepared to hold to your new boundaries.

When caught off guard we often feel stuck in the moment and whatever we do we are likely to later feel like kicking ourselves when looking back at the incident.  One boundary is to always give yourself time to think, time to ponder what to do.  The Master Manipulators in our lives know how to put us on the spot and in the past we would cave.  Being better educated now, and with practice, we will avoid those pitfalls more easily in the future as we gain experience.

[Radcliff]

MiaP,

Unwanted texts coming in frequently, with someone continuing to probe with new ways to try to get a response out of us, can be tremendously stressful and invasive.  What do you do when these texts come in?  Do you ever respond to them?

WW

[MiaP]

So you may be enticed, guilted or pressured by the other into retreating back to prior weak boundaries.

That's exactly what's been happening, he pressures in every way he can think of, and of course, he knows me, he knows which buttons to press.

The Master Manipulators in our lives know how to put us on the spot and in the past we would cave.  Being better educated now, and with practice, we will avoid those pitfalls more easily in the future as we gain experience.

I hope so!

Unwanted texts coming in frequently, with someone continuing to probe with new ways to try to get a response out of us, can be tremendously stressful and invasive.  What do you do when these texts come in?  Do you ever respond to them?

I would normally respond but now I mostly ignore every text and just answer if there's something pratical (about the children for example) that I really feel needs to be answered. Besides, one text from me prompts him to send 10!
Lately, however, none of his texts concern anything really worth replying. It all sums up to blaming, projecting, threatning. It's as if he presses play, then suffle and repeat and the texts just keep coming... .

[Panda39]

Hi Mia,

You mentioned an Extinction Burst so I just thought I'd share some information on that... .

Extinction Burst

The phenomenon of behaviour temporarily getting worse, not better when the reinforcement stops.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=85479.0

Also my other thought was, can you come up with a plan on what you would do if he turns up on your doorstep again.  If you have a plan you aren't just reacting in surprise and I am concerned about your safety too. When you pull up to your house can you see him on the door step?  What if you didn't pull in but instead kept going and while driving away call the police and have them meet you at home? 

I am concerned he could appear there again because he got what he wanted the first time.

Panda39

[Radcliff]

I love Panda39's idea to have a plan.  You could have several levels of it thought out beforehand, with more modest actions followed by more serious ones if the modest ones don't work.  What would a good plan look like to you?

WW

[MiaP]

Hello,


Thank you for the information on extincton bursts.

At least for now, he hasn't shown up here and a couple of days ago stopped all contact! It's not the first time he has gone NC but will it last? At this point I have no idea what will happen. In the meantime I have to work out what to tell my D4 who keeps asking about daddy... .

If you have a plan you aren't just reacting in surprise and I am concerned about your safety too. When you pull up to your house can you see him on the door step?  What if you didn't pull in but instead kept going and while driving away call the police and have them meet you at home? 

I hadn't even thought of that but when I read your post I remembered that I usually see his vehicle parked outside when I come inside the building but that time he must have parked somewhere else so that I wouldn't realise he was here, already inside the building. That way I have no way of seeing him except right outside my door. So, regarding a plan, I have relatives living close so I suppose I would try to get to their house and call the police if the situation is really out of hand.

[Radcliff]

MiaP,

You asked if the NC will last... .it seems unlikely that you will never see him again.  It will last as long as it suits him.  Meanwhile, get some rest, and perhaps do some work to make your situation better.

Did you ever see the lawyer?  Is formalizing your custody something that you would like to do?  Now, with you doing 100% of the work, seems like a good time to do it.

How are you doing with the depression?  Are you doing enjoyable things for yourself?

WW

[ForeverDad]

Did you ever see the lawyer?  Is formalizing your custody something that you would like to do?  Now, with you doing 100% of the work, seems like a good time to do it.

If it is over then making it legal while you have the upper hand in parenting makes sense.  I recall when I met my custody evaluator that he said history of parenting was about 50% of his evaluation.  Well, that sounded bad for me since my son's mother had quit work when he was born but I had kept working.  Just about any professional would have called her the majority time parent.  Sadly for her, her poor Personality Disorder traits overwhelmed her and the CE recommended that if we couldn't share parenting then she shouldn't have custody.

In your case, you're the stable parent and in charge of parenting overall.  That is good for you.  However, it may not stay that way.  What if he demands more parenting time?  If you delayed and by the time this was handled in domestic court he had a lot of parenting then the outcome would be less clear.  In other words, if the stable parent can make a good case to remain in charge of parenting, then it would be foolish to let that opportunity slip away.  You can be true to yourself and your children while still not being "overly fair" by possibly Gifting Away too much to a disordered person.

One thing to remember, don't give the appearance of unreasonably blocking his parental contact.  You can set appropriate limits of course, right now you both presumably have "equal but undefined" parental rights.  Don't read into that phrase that each parent should have equal time.  Once you have an order which clearly defines a parenting schedule (with you taking the lead) then things ought to settle down.  (A parenting order does not require you to have a relationship with the other parent.)

It has often been noted that some disordered fathers fade away a bit over time.  In court he may demand parenting time but afterward he may lose interest in taking all his parenting time (and you can't force him to take it).

[livednlearned]

In the meantime I have to work out what to tell my D4 who keeps asking about daddy... .

A lesson learned for me was to focus more on what my son feels than what I say... .

If your D asks where is daddy, it's ok to say you don't know, and then ask her how she feels when daddy goes away like that.

She will feel less emotionally lonely if her feelings are validated by you, someone she loves and trusts. It's appropriate to feel sad that her dad is not there, and appropriate to seek out someone she trusts to share those feelings with.

Sometimes we rush in too quickly to reassure our kids, or distract them, from feeling valid feelings. I found I had to learn how to feel comfortable with sadness and anger, and to let those feelings work through me, as painful as they were, so that I could bear witness to what my son was feeling.

It helps build emotional resilience, in us, and in them 

[Radcliff]

Sometimes we rush in too quickly to reassure our kids, or distract them, from feeling valid feelings. I found I had to learn how to feel comfortable with sadness and anger, and to let those feelings work through me, as painful as they were, so that I could bear witness to what my son was feeling.

Sorry, MiaP, I got a little excited by livednlearned's advice.  You may already be doing this, but I have to jump in... .

livednlearned's advice here is huge.  I remember after being thoroughly convinced of this by a parenting book I took it into account in my parenting, and it really makes sense.  The book was explaining how natural it is for the parent to want to make the feelings go away to protect their child, but that teaches the child to be scared of feelings, which can have lifelong consequences.  Validating their feelings, and teaching them to acknowledge the feelings and process them is a very powerful gift to give them as a parent.  Just last night, I was reading another thread where a father was discussing how much success he'd had helping his daughter in this way.

WW