I'm scared to think it's over.

[JoeBPD81]

Things at home are very uncertain. We are oficially not together anymore, but living together and with two kids that call me dad, and ask me to marry their mom often. I love her, and she says she loves me, but that she can't give me anything but pain. She says she won't share with me anymore and that she is leaving therapy, and would focus on being polite to me and good for the kids, in finding a job and another place to live. Part of being polite, for her, is to leave me alone as much as she can, not talk to me, take the kids to places without me... .

She takes medication to sleep. Then when she is relaxed she can tell me she loves me so much, and next day she won't remember it. And it breaks my heart again and again.

She never tells me "oficially": "let's try to be together again". She would act like my girlfriend for some days, and when things go cold or silent again, she tells me "you know we've been not together for a long while now".

I don't know how can anyone help me now. Just say a prayer for us.

I tried to feel relieved that the drama might be over if they leave me, and I can't. I can't let go of the dream of being together as a family. I can't let go of her.

I know many of us get attached to the person that our SO was when we met them. And that that person doesn't come back. But I believe my gf is in a situation that puts her againts the ropes, and she can't help being disregulated in that position. And I believe years of depression and also physically starving her brain, have made her identify with her darkest thoughts. I've seen that with 2 days stress free, she is a completely different person. But she rarely has two days like that.

It sounds like she's given up on life. She eats the minimum to survive, she "accepts" she will never be happy, she won't have friends or relationships. She won't try to change anything anymore. And says she's at peace with that.

She doesn't believe that I want to be with her. She thinks I'm with her because I can't hurt a fly, and because I feel responsible for them. She says there is nothing to love, or to even like.

She's not angry anymore, she is just... .Defeated. Aphatetic, sad, closed... .

And I'm scared and in anguish. I don't know what else to say or to do. I've used all my tools, all my energy, all my arguments... .And she still prefers to die rather than living with me and the kids.

I won't do the same. I have many movies to watch, books/comics to read, games to play, people to know... .But I do find comfort in just the idea, in thinking maybe one day, if I can't take the emptiness anymore, I can just end things, and no one will miss me.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[heartandwhole]

JoeBPD81,

This sounds very painful. I'm so sorry.   I can imagine how exhausted you must feel after trying every possible way to convince your partner that you love her and are there for her.

I won't do the same. I have many movies to watch, books/comics to read, games to play, people to know... .But I do find comfort in just the idea, in thinking maybe one day, if I can't take the emptiness anymore, I can just end things, and no one will miss me.

I would miss you.   We would miss you. I understand your feelings, Joe. I've had thoughts like that myself.

Keep writing out your feelings. We are listening.

heartandwhole

[Tattered Heart]

I can just hear the hurt, sadness, and defeat in your voice. I know that you have tried for so long to keep trying to make things work. Things are really tough for you right now, and I cannot imagine watching a loved one starve themselves like your wife does. I hate that you are going through this. Know that I care for you. You have support and people who care about you here.

Do you both have family that can help support you both right now? I don't recall if you are in T. Even if you could find someone to  talk to face to face about everything going on. It sounds like things are hitting a critical point that outside intervention might be really help.

Hope deferred makes the heart sick. Praying that you will begin to find some hope again.

[isilme]

Ho Joe.  

I'm so sorry you are feeling so out of hope right now

I would like to ask if you can explain a little more about this statement:

I know many of us get attached to the person that our SO was when we met them. And that that person doesn't come back. But I believe my gf is in a situation that puts her againts the ropes, and she can't help being disregulated in that position. And I believe years of depression and also physically starving her brain, have made her identify with her darkest thoughts. I've seen that with 2 days stress free, she is a completely different person. But she rarely has two days like that

What ropes is she against?  What is this situation?  What stress is in her life that makes her fall into depression and eating disorder?  Is the eating disorder an "old" coping mechanism to which she turns, or fairly new?  

BPD is often accompanied by anxiety and depression.  Imagine if you could not distinguish between facts and feelings, and your feelings told you everything was hopeless and you saw no choice but to accept that?  That must be how things can seem to a wBPD.  She doesn't sound like she feels loveable, so your attempts to prove otherwise are just an invalidation of her feelings, and she can't believe it.  It fits her reality to simply think you are lying, making it up, and she sinks deeper into despair.  

Sadly, their dysfunction affects us, children, and others who care for them and see the hurt they cause themselves.  

How are you taking care of you?  The kids?  Has she ever been treated for the eating disorder or depression?  I know we focus on BPD, but since that will always be part of them, sometimes we need to focus on the other "symptoms" they exhibit.  Like depression.  :)oes she get any daylight? Exercise?  I bet neither of you is sleeping well, and as a lifelong insomniac, I can attest that exposure to daylight and/or exercise can help improve mood and sleep patterns.  Have you tried natural supplements for ETHER or BOTH of you to help elevate mood (St. John's Wort) or sleep (valerian/melatonin)?  When H was in a really bad place a few years back, that was what helped him keep from sinking into the swamp of sadness like the Neverending Story.  Alos, winter is just ending.  A lot of people have Seasonal Affective Disorder, where the long nights and cold days cause or contribute to horrible depression.  Can you open up curtains, bring in some flowers, brighten up the house at all?

As an extreme, can you admit her for self-harm for refusal to eat?  Or ply her with food and let her know you are looking into that if she can't make an effort to eat?  Is she using starvation as a manipulation to make you do something, or an expression of her sadness she really has trouble controlling?  Both, maybe?  

We are oficially not together anymore, but living together and with two kids that call me dad, and ask me to marry their mom often. I love her, and she says she loves me, but that she can't give me anything but pain.

This sounds to me like you are together, but both behind walls of pain that prevent you from meeting.  Like a prison visit.  She's incarcerated herself in a prison of emotion and you have been trying to reach her but can only touch the glass.  The kids love you.  She loves you but is having such a hard time right now she's unable to love herself enough to allow your love in.  We care about you.  :)on't take on her dysfunction, or absorb her feelings.  I think many of us are pretty empathetic, so pain in a loved one pains us, but we need boundaries around that, and it's okay to have those boundaries.  You, the kids, you are allowed to have good days, happy days, regardless of how she feels.  It's not meant to hurt her, and she's welcome to join YOU on a journey to feeling better.  Instead of her dragging you down, you "might" find she's allowing you to drag her up given enough time.  

Right now you are both in a feedback loop, feeding each other's sadness and depression, and feelings of being unloved.  You are a good, strong person who can stop the loop because it's best for both of you AND the kids to do so.  

Can you do something to shake things up for YOU, that might involve a nice day for the kids?  Even just a trip to the movies might be good for all of you.  Take advantage of some nicer weather (hoping it's nicer where you are).  :)on't be afraid to live just because she's not feeling like it herself at this time.  

    I hope you can keep us apprised of how you are doing - we don't WANT to have to miss you

[Radcliff]

Joe, add one more to the list of folks who would miss you.  I am sorry you are facing such dark times.  Hang in there.  I have confidence in you.

WW

[once removed]

Just say a prayer for us.

doing this now, Joe. hang in there. know that we are here for you.

[Cromwell]

It sounds like she's given up on life. She eats the minimum to survive, she "accepts" she will never be happy, she won't have friends or relationships. She won't try to change anything anymore. And says she's at peace with that.

She doesn't believe that I want to be with her. She thinks I'm with her because I can't hurt a fly, and because I feel responsible for them. She says there is nothing to love, or to even like.

She's not angry anymore, she is just... .Defeated. Aphatetic, sad, closed... .

And I'm scared and in anguish. I don't know what else to say or to do. I've used all my tools, all my energy, all my arguments... .And she still prefers to die rather than living with me and the kids.

Hi Joe

She does sound depressed and the behaviour of self isolating is a theme of depression im aware of from my experiences with my ex aswell as the anorexia.

taking the attention away just momentarily for your worries and concerns about her, please try to maybe think about some of your own thoughts on the situation such as the one that stood out most to me

"And she still prefers to die rather than living with me and the kids."

i really could understand how thinking that way might make me feel compelled to behave in a certain way for the benefit of that person at the expense of considering my own needs and wellbeing.

perhaps it could be taken very cynically, and forgive me in advance for that if it sounds this way as I do not know her, but I cant help but feel that there could be an element of this "would rather die" part is quite significant, if only for the fact that is has became entrenched in your mind. Perhaps she is extremely frustrated by her circumstances and low mood.

maybe if the situation improves or changes or perhaps after a brief period of space and time on her own for both of you to evaluate things.

 without having this very close configuration of having to deal with the frustrations she is going through plus having only you as the source of blame or direct the negativity out of her system towards, which is clearly having a negative effect on your mood and wellbeing.

Would it be possible to try a short time apart?

 maybe she will even try to re-establish some other extra form of support in that time apart. just my best attempt at trying to figure something out I have experienced very similair and I know how frustrating and demoralising it can be.

[JoeBPD81]

Thanks everyone for the support.

Heartandhole for answering so fast. Tattered Heart for your prayers and your understanding. Pearl for the hugs, Isilme for the long and thoughtful post. Wentworth for countless great tips and posts.

Tattered Heart:

I can count on my family to try to cheer me up ,and do things with me. I can't count on them to understand half of this. She can't trust her family at all. She doesn't share much, because they use what she shares to hurt her, ridicule her, or blackmail her. I was/am her only support. Her last connection to humanity.

Isilme:

I've asked myself often if I'm sticking around waiting for the loving worshiping passionate woman I once met to come back. Or if I love this woman as she is. I think there is a middle ground. She won't be again the person that idealized me and couldn't keep her hands off me.

Her eating disorder started at least when she was 11 years old. She's moved back and forth from anorexia to bulimia, treatment, recess... .She threw away the scale when she became a mother. And when I met her, she had a healthy weight. Her reporting of her ex-husband, the divorce, the custody battle, and also falling in love with me (and wanting to feel pretty again) triggered her anorexia, and she has been losing ever since. She was curvy and beautiful, now you can see all the bones in her back, all the tendons in her neck... .She doesn't look just skinny, she looks ill. She used to have a lot of male undesired attention for big breasts, and she feels safer now. But I want to cry when I see her bones.

The stress is mainly about being jobless for 4 years, she has done a lot of interviews, training, short contracts... .And nothing sticks. She reported her ex, and she wanted to be the one to support the kids, but she depends on me, another man, and it drives her crazy. She's also living in a big city, and she has social anxiety, the smells, the crowds give her panic. She feels the environment as hostile. She is in debt (some towards me). Her ex owes her thousands on child support, and we thought that would have come a year and a half ago, and we are still waiting. That money would give us some breathing air. Even depending on me we are short on money.

When we moved together, her mother offered to pay for one of the kids' school. And that was the piece that made the math work. But she never did. They (Grandmother or aunt) often say "Oh buy this to the kid, I'll pay you later" things we can't afford, and then later they don't pay, and she gets more in debt.

So financial, social, and work stress. Then the kids. The kids are... .special. I hear her every morning waking them up in the sweetest voice, she has their breakfast ready, she helps them with everything, tells them about the good news for the day... .And 15 minutes later they have brought her to tears or to screams. I've written about them often. They need constant watch, and help with every step of any task. They are defiant, and they would hurt each other or her mom just out of boredom. Some days ago we had a minute of peace, I was at my laptop, she was reading something on the phone, and S6 was drawing happy (S11 was in the shower, or reading in his room). Then S6 lifted his head, and looked very nasty, and with a lot of hate, he said to mom "I really wish I didn't live with you". Many times, out of the blue he would say such things "you are not my mother" "you are crap" "I don't want to live with you". Usually on the way from school home if he has had an argument with a friend that day, or he doesn't like the snack she carries, or if S11 is getting more attention than him. S11 gets more creative and colorful, and more hurtful too. He escalates so much that hits her. It really seems to bother them when mom is smiling or in peace, and they need to do something to upset her.

The time I saw her without stress, it was without the kids. They went away for 10 days with family. Just last summer. And it was heaven. We even had sex, even more than once some days! I prayed she realized that without the stress, we are a great couple. And that she is capable of enjoying life.

Bear in mind that the kids are her whole life. She really wants to be dead and just end everything, but she does everything for them. Being depressed, she gets up everyday, she helps with homework everyday, takes them to and from school. Worries about fun plans for them every day, cooks and bakes for them the food they like. She does all the shopping while they are at school. Encourages and cheers for them, praises every positive thing, tells them she loves them all the time... .So when everyday they seem to despise her, to use her like a slave, and even call her names and hit her... .Her world falls apart.

She's told me "I use every ounce of patient with them, and I have no left for you, I pay it with you and it's not fair". We mirror a bit here: She does everything for them and get s**t back, and I do everything for her and she's worse than ever.

Mine is the 1st home she's had without abuse, except the abuse from the kids. Her story would make a best seller, but people would believe it's fiction/terror. Sometimes I think she has lost control of her emotions once there was no enemy to fight. After 35 years living in a war zone, soldiers can't adapt to life in peace.

The kids are taken care of. Except the occasional sight of their mom crying, their life is great. They worry about video games, cards, classmates, school... .Normal kids stuff. They have more attention and reinforcement in one week than what I had in a year from my parents. They demand things and they don't realize how poor we really are.

I feel like those movies or cartoons where people are on top of a ship, and the floor keeps changing its slope (don't know how to express that in English). People try to hang on to something and to advance to one place and then everything changes and they fall the other way... .So my plans to take care of myself are cancelled often. I try to keep it in mind. Some days ago I went alone to have lunch and I was looking forward to doing that, but I ended up doing it in tears because of the conversation I had with my GF just before.

Back to the eating disorder, she started therapy because the doctor gave her an ultimatum, that or being admitted into a hospital. She never had the intention to recover from anorexia or gain weight. She fully knows she is sick. But she was open to treat the depression. In the 2nd session, they brought BPD up. Today she said she's done with therapy, but the T gave her another appointment.

She gets daylight and exercise, she walks more than 20.000 steps a day. Most of it carrying one or two backpacks, the shopping... .Some days it helps her feel better. She sleeps very poorly, since she was a baby, acording to her mom. She can't silence her thoughts. When she's ok, she reads books and books and she enjoys nights. But she's not often OK, and sleep deprivation is added to her problems. She takes medication to sleep. She almost never sleeps during the day.

I bought a natural B-12 supplement, and she doesn't take it. Any other supplement, she doesn't trust it wont have calories or make her eat in her sleep (she's done that often). Then she knows it's ridiculous, and calls herself shameful things, but she doesn't take them. She's reached a compromise where she eats at night, alone, and she keeps her weight, not losing more. In daytime she can have a coffee, or two on weekends (if I'm lucky, with me).

When we 1st met, she would eat normally with me, and I was happy because I love food. And then secretly she would purge all of it. One day she came clean, and she ate very few after that. Then she ate only candy. Everything was scary, and eventually she did this big effort to keep as healthy as she can manage. She eats very few, but healthy food. And she doesn't lose more. Unless something scares her. I feel that if I pressure her, she would lose this progress.

She refuses help to carry weight, and that kind of thing. She doesn't have me as a nurse. She generally hates to be helped in any way. She starves because she thinks she is fat. Well, she feels she is. She knows she is severely underweight.

Legally, I'm her roommate. I can't take her to the hospital against her will. And her family is untrustworthy. I wrote to them once about the seriousness of this, that it could kill her. And there was some compassion shown for a month or so, but none of my requests were granted. Her sister started to lose a lot of weight and to talk about it to her, which I specifically asked her not to do anymore. And that triggered her to drop to a scary low. Even she got scared about dying, and ate a lot one night.

Are we together? When there is no confirmation, and no physical contact, it is weird to say the least. Tonight she was talking to me about future plans that included me. And I was hurt and confused, but I thought I shouldn't say "But wasn't I your ex-boyfriend?"

They say you can only be as happy as your unhappiest child. That happens to me a bit about her. I think I'm happier than her. But I can't just ignore how much pain she seems to be going though. I try to have good things. The kids have often great plans (They are keen on sabotaging them, but we finally go and they have a blast, even if our patience wears thin or completely depleted). They would do even more, if we didn't have to enforce consequences to their actions. She enjoys kids plans, she never asks for adult entertainment.

I work and study, so I'm very tired most days. And I don't spend a lot of time with them. 2-3.30 hours including dinner. So the rest of the day, I get to distract myself and enjoy some things. I'm really well behind in studies. I have to do some for work (to get a promotion) and some for college. So What I manage is to forgive myself for not being studying, and watching a movie or taking a walk instead.

Time apart could benefit both, yes. but I don't see how we could. There are a couple of uncertain chances. Maybe I should invest on that even if for her is definitive. I've seen her take many definitive decisions that were turned around a week later. Let her go and try again after some time apart. But if she has to be able to live apart, she needs a job. And I'm sure a job by itself would help our situation a lot. A new routine, self value up, less feeling dependent, more confident on her being a full person... .If she leaves, I need to find a smaller place, or rent a room to keep our flat. Because even if I pay all the house expenses, she pays for all the food. If I had to pay this house, I can't also eat. If I get rid of the car, we wouldn't be able to do some family plans. Those things keep me awake.

If she had a job and some self worth back, I believe she can be a very sweet person most days. She doesn't blame me for her mood and depression. She feels she's dragging me to her private hell, and she can't stand it. She wants to set me free. But also she wants to be free, because her feelings for me are painful to her. And are complicated mixed with hating to be dependent, hating to have a witness to her mental illness (or several ones). Even today I love her. But when she's regulated, I'm crazy about her. Some days back we kissed and it was electric, I promised to not escalate things, but I wanted to kiss her for hours. The next hug she felt scared and said it was a mistake to be more affectionate with me, that it brings flashbacks and shame that she can't bear. So that she would not give me more hugs.

That's very hard, because for me a hug means love without any judgement or complication. It means "I accept you". And things get so complicated and misinterpreted so often, that I just want to show her that I love and accept her. And I want that for myself. But I can't touch her. It kills me to think she doesn't feel safe with me. She knows I won't rape her. But what she thinks and what she feels it's not the same.

Some days ago I made a joke at work, and an attractive female client grabbed my forearm and pressed and said "that's hilarious!". I thought: "That's the most sexual action I've had in months". It almost brought me to tears. That scared me, can I really lead a life without shows of affection?

Well, I need to rest. That's all for today. Thank you all for your words.  Cromwell and once removed who wrote while I was typing.

Thanks.

[lighthouse9]

Hey Joe - I don't have anything to add that hasn't been said, but wanted to throw my weight in on the support wagon. Saying a prayer for you and her and sending you lots of hugs.

[CryWolf]

Hey JoeBPD81,

I'm sorry for everything going in your life at this moment. I wish there was some magic pill that would fix/help all of our situations in this forum but luckily we have one another, and we're all lucky to have been graced by your insightful advice on our own personal threads. I hope you find peace and solitude.

Virtual hugs to you my friend.

[sladezy]

Hi Joe,

Really sorry that things are going this way for you. Try to remain focused on yourself and taking care of your needs in this time. At lighthouse doesn't save ships it just stands there shining! I liked this quote and thought you might too. If there was more I could say or do believe me I would. Go back to basics, remind yourself what you've taught me... .best of luck

[pearlsw]

Hi Joe,

It broke my heart to see your post. Sorry I could not type out a reply sooner, just wanted to send some hugs and let you know I'm here even if I can't always "speak" with you.  

I know what it is like to get to such a low point in a relationship... .to feel like there aren't reasons to go on... .you try, but at times thoughts about "not going on" come into our brains. The pain gets to be too much.

But we're here with you. You are not alone in this. I know it is hard to see past this all now. Recently two doctors told me if my "h" wanted to kill himself that was on him. They delivered that news to me in tones I found a bit cold... .and I don't know how much of that was cultural differences or just... .their version of things. One doctor apologized later for his remarks in this regard. I wanted some help to get him to not kill himself. They just sort of said, "If he does it, he does it. His choice. You can't help him." Something to that effect.

I guess they have a point, but it is not something that sits well with me. I won't make the same statement to you about your partner because I don't think that is the right thing to say. I think it is better to show you compassion and understanding for how painful it is to be in your situation. How I can relate to how much you want things to be better, but are out of things to say or do on your own.

The best thing you can do now is to keep yourself stable. Do things that make you happy, even if they are small and temporary.

thinking of you, pearl.

[JoeBPD81]

Thanks guys, CryWolf, sladezy, Pearlsw, lighthouse9,

Today we've talked a lot. She doesn't remember what we talked yesterday night. She was talking about a year, tow years from now, and saying I'm the father of the kids, and where I would go with them.

Today we really texted a lot. She says she's giving me a superficial polite RS which is what is good for both of us. And encourages me to go out and meet people and forget about her. Thinking like that, she says she's let go of the rage that thinking about the past has brought to her.

She says those things in the past, and that she has stayed with me in spite of those things has broken the relationship.

The sad thing for me is that those things are not true. Before knowing about BPD we would argue again an again about those things. I tried to convince her again and again that she was suffering about something that wasn't true. She says that forgiving me those things, and trying to forget them, made her hate herself.

She has apologized for many things, and she's told me she loves me and that she cares about me deeply... .But always came back to say that we are a thing of the past. That we are not a good match. And that we can be just polite to each other.

... .when I realized that I was even worse (than your ex), even if it wasn't on purpose, I truly hated that a lot. And I am sorry for not knowing where or how to channel my rage, I really don't know... .But I can't understand you, my dear Joe
However, it doesn't mean that I can't care about you a lot. Or that I can't be polite. Now that I am dome trying
... .
Of course I love you
If I didn't, I would just go ahead and let you ruin your life
But I do, and you deserve happiness and to be treated like you treat others.
... .
Now I don't need anyone to validate me, or to listen to me, or to understand me, or to comfort me in any way. I'm at peace with this, I think.
But for a long time, I wasn't. And I am sorry for making you pay. I should have moved on and stopped contact, and not allow things to get so toxic and painful
But, it's all in the past.

Those were some of the things said. I keep saying that I want what's best for her, but that I love her (them) and I want to be with them.

I don't know if I should try something more radical. I'm just trying to not despair.

[JoeBPD81]

When I say I'm scared is not just a way of talking. It's my mental state, it's like that feeling that something bad is about to happen and you can't help it. I can't relax, and I end the days very tired.

She's talking about visiting her ex, with the kids, and that she would stay in the guest house inside his property. So the kids are not so scared. That's a disturbing idea on so many levels. I believe she doesn't want him back as a man, I trust that's not her intention. But that guy is dangerous. He never moved a finger to come visits the kids where they live. And he has hurt them again an again everytime they give him an inch of trust.

She asked S11 if he would be more willing to see his dad if she is close, and S11 didn't answer.

Her father left (to go to prison) when she was 10-12. And that was a huge thing, even though her father wasn't a good person (to put it mildly). She desperately wants the kids to stop being afraid of their dad, and to have some closure.

Where I am in all of this? When she told me under the night meds, she told me I'm their dad, the dad they want and love, and she spoke about plans with me. But really, she's telling me she will remove me as their dad as soon as she can.

I trust her intention, I just think they are not realist. And I don't trust that guy at all. He's an old dude (20 years older than her), and he might want to get her back using the kids (who have struggled economicaly for the last 4 years, because he didn't pay the full child support). Or he might be plotting to kill her for all we know. Or to con her in some way.

Truth is we are better after one of his betrayals. She is reminded of what kind of human being he is, and she forgets about the guilt for a while. Her guilt is : "One day the kids will ask me if I did everything in my power so they could have a relationship with their dad". Also, their dad has his house on the beach, with swimingpool, garden, nice weather 80% of the year... .And he has tons of money to pamper them. She wants them to have a piece of that, and she feels she has robbed them from it. When in reality she has saved them from abuse, and from watching him returning home completely drunk.

Difficult as they are, this guy would beat them every other day. In that region, it is very rare that court grants custody to one of the parents only, they usualy give 50% custody even in cases where there have been abuse. So they saw him completely unfit to be a parent.

I'll apreciate any thoughts.

[Tattered Heart]

In the past when she has built up this romanticized picture of her ex in her mind how long does it take her to realize how bad he is?

[CryWolf]

Hey Joe! I don't have a lot of experience with these things but I hope anything I say may be of some value to you or help you in anyway.

When I say I'm scared is not just a way of talking. It's my mental state, it's like that feeling that something bad is about to happen and you can't help it. I can't relax, and I end the days very tired.

It must be emotionally exhausting for you to be going through this. You have this gut feeling that something terrible is going to happen, then you become consumed by it and start bracing for it. What i can tell you, is that what we fear the most is what we end up causing unconsciously. I know this time is very delicate for you, and Im wondering if you have a support group outside of this forum you can rely on until this feeling passes?

In my opinion, I feel as if your pwBPD is taking the kids to their father so she feels less guilt over the situation of their divorce maybe? I believe maybe she thinks it will help the children to respect her more and not disrespect/treat her so poorly. Maybe she holds herself accountable for everything and she thinks the children hate her for it? These are just my speculations. What do you think?

She's talking about visiting her ex, with the kids, and that she would stay in the guest house inside his property. So the kids are not so scared. That's a disturbing idea on so many levels. I believe she doesn't want him back as a man, I trust that's not her intention. But that guy is dangerous. He never moved a finger to come visits the kids where they live. And he has hurt them again an again everytime they give him an inch of trust.

Is it possible if you go as well? Is it possible for you guys to get an Airbnb next to the exH home and arrange to have the children meet in public setting?


Sidenote: I know how you feel about your partner seeing their ex. Your mind races, and you have these intrusive thoughts. You know your partner wont leave you for them, but then there is always that ounce of doubt that starts to brood. Then it slowly gets bigger and bigger until it consumes you. In these times, the best thing you can do for yourself and for your wife and kids is to be strong.

One time, I dropped my ex off at a restuarant with her friends from High School. Then her ex pulled up right behind me and he was attending as well. My ex didnt know of this but was not surprised since they have mutual friends. Let me tell you something, My mind was going crazy. I was making scenarios in my head, about how "hes going to want to talk to her and then hes going to tell her he loves her" and all these things and she would leave me for him. I kept checking my phone like crazy. I had no idea how i was functioning at all. When I picked her up after the dinner, she told me she was sorry her was there, and that she ended up going to the bathroom and talking to her friend. My anxiety and worries went away.

Another time was when she met up with her ex to get some belongings back. The only you can do as a person in these times is give trust and be strong. Its hard for all of us to be secure and strong when with someone with BPD because we never know where we stand with them.

Another thing Joe, my exgf would tell me a lot of things your wife tells you. In regards of, "shes sorry shes hurting me", "shes not the same girl i fell for",  I believe this is out of guilt for themselves. They feel like they are hurting us and betrayed us and dont want to string us along anymore. Maybe they feel like "why would anyone want to be with me, its a matter of time they leave". But what they dont realize is that we love them so dearly and they mean the entire world to us.

Sorry ended up rambling a bit. Hope you feel better Joe.

Also are you playing any sports, or can you join a local gym? Maybe you and the family can join together?

[JoeBPD81]

In the past when she has built up this romanticized picture of her ex in her mind how long does it take her to realize how bad he is?

The short version would be :as soon as he opens his mouth.

He's supposed to pick up the kids every other weekend. And have them half of all the holidays.

What he has done is once a year he's said, I want the kids for a week, or even a month last time. The kids freak out, and beg us not to allow it. But we can't say no. We try to make it sound OK. We've been close everytime.

After an hour or two, he calls telling my Gf to pick them up. Because he suddenly has "things to do". He does that for a couple of days, then says he won't have them the next one-two days. Then he sees them one more time and kicked them out, saying to them that he doesn't want to see them ever again.

After this happened the 1st time, S11 character changed radically, and all the behavioral problems with him started.

So, when he calls the 1st day and asks her to pick them up already, she remembers who this guy is. It can happen sooner, when he calls drunk and starts insulting her.

[juju2]

so sorry Joe.

I have to do self care when under stress.  If there is some way to get away for an afternoon, a weekend, an hour, just to do something you enjoy.

Being steeped in my life that doesn't look like it's getting better, only worse, is horrible for me.

When it was really bad, I had to go to counseling for myself.  I couldn't see what would make my life better.  I was that low and weary, confused.

Sometimes just if i call I friend who won't judge me or try to give me advice, it helps... .
Getting a massage, acupuncture, doing something just for me has been life saving.  I don't look at it like i can't afford it.  My mental health and physical well being are key to me not just making it, but key for me to be in a place so I can see the path.

a lot of people care about you.

Bless you Joe.

j

[isilme]

Joe - I just want to say I wish I could take your despair, and hers, and throw it away from both of you

It sounds like she expends all her energy into being "super mom" and somehow the kids have learned to treat her badly.  It sounds a lot like others have just thrown money at the kids (or convinced her to do so and not paid her back), instead of just being a good, supportive grandmother/other family.

4 years is a terribly long time to be job hunting.  Has she looked farther afield than her previous training, or been willing at this point to low ball it to something basic with room for growth?  I know when I got laid off due to budget cuts it was a serious blow.  I also got frantic about cooking, cleaning (all socks were paired off, all drawers clean, I felt guilty for sleeping in when H was working, I took on as many freelances and crafty projects to help pay my part of the bills, and I gained weight as I am stress eater until full depression kicks in and I can't eat - not from fear of weight gain, but I just can't eat). 

Would she be willing to try volunteering somewhere?  I mention for a few reasons - she needs a break from this rut.  If she is pouring self-worth into these kids, and not getting back positive feedback, she needs to be shaken up a bit, have a change, and volunteering would give her an outlet to feel worthwhile.  I don't know your area, but we have a no-kill shelter that always needs help - she'd meet people, "maybe" make a friend or two, and might even learn about new job opportunities in the process.  And maybe, she might get some praise, some positive feedback, and feel better about herself, and less like she makes no difference to anyone.  Churches need help, daycares need help, some hospitals might even still allow volunteers to come help, or public and private schools.  If there are scouting organizations nearby or a boys and girls club, art center,s elderly centers - there are lots of places that might welcome her and give some good emotional supply.

Heck, if she can't do it, maybe you should to give you interactions with grateful people - or make the kids do it... .they may learn a thing or two about appreciating what you've got!

Regarding the children's father... .I so wish there was a way for you to litigate against him, report him, something that would remove him.  She seems to be slightly projecting her feelings on having her father in prison onto her own kids, assuming they want to spend time with this guy, and it seems all negative from the kids $$ expectations to how they treat their mother. 

I hope things make an upswing for you.  As nutty as it sounds, maybe seeing the ex again will shake her out of her funk and put you back into perspective again. 

 

[JoeBPD81]

I wanted to say to you, that I didn't want you for a ride. I didn't want a boyfriend for a while, I didn't want an affair, or a rebound after my marriage broke. I wouldn't have exposed the kids to you so much, if I hadn't thought that I wanted you for life, and that you were the right father for the children. And that hasn't changed.
What changed was my perception of myself. It wasn't great to begin with, sure. But moving here, everything that happened afterwards, and my own mental breakdown, my inability to move on and forget and forgive things, has done something to my inner core that I can't explain. And going to therapy and pouring my heart out and not being understood, has done more harm than good, also. And I have done what I can to be better. And somehow, I just don't get better. I can be civil to you when I forget about our romantic involvement. But when I remember, it hurts so much that I don't even know what to do.
So, it's not the cliché "it's not you, it's me". It really truly is me, the problem. Or my problems, since you don't like me to call myself a problem.
I have learned certain things about myself, and others, and some good things, being so focused on my mental health. But I have also learned that I am a very cold detached person when it comes to others, and I didn't think that I was that way. And it has taken me a while to be at peace with that. However other things are still a huge problem for me and my functioning, and I don't think that any person should pay for those... ." personality flaws ", as Dr Phil calls them. I hate it, that everyone has to tiptoe and walk on eggshells around me. That's not what I had in mind when I wanted you for life. And I hope that you can understand what I am saying.

She has summarized that for me.

I want to thank you all and answer your posts one by one when I can.

I'm very disoriented.

[heartandwhole]

Is that a text message from your partner, Joe? What was the context of conversation?

I'm sorry. This is a very difficult situation to be. I worry that your girlfriend's despair and your very understandable concerns and lack of hope are pulling you both down.

Are you still taking time out to study at the library when you can? What options do you have for stepping outside of the situation and getting support?

I know we are banging on about self-care, but I hope you know it comes from caring and hoping for something to change for the better in your life and relationship. 

heartandwhole

[JoeBPD81]

CryWolf,

Thanks so much for your kind post. You took a lot of time from your own life and struggles and you cared about my pain, That means a lot. I hope it helped you to process. I've seen your second post went very long very quick and you are getting quality support. I can see you are a good valuable person, and I hope you can see it too, and you can keep being the main character in your own story.

Jealousy is just one of the things that bother me about her contact with the ex, and it's not the most important. I don't suffer thinking they could make out or have sex or fall in love again. I envy that she trusted him, that she married him, that she had kids with him, and that she forgave him again and again. And she doesn't trust me, she can't tell me if she will be with me next month, and she doesn't forgive me things that happened only in her head.

Unfortunately I don't have support as in now outside this site. I poured my heart to a friend who I know wouldn't judge her, and he answered like 4-5 months later, telling me about his life, and he said "about your troubles, I don't know what to say, so I'll say nothing".

By law, we have to allow the father to see the kids. We went together to an expensive lawyer to ask if we could take his visits away. And we were advised not to change anything. It's not that she wants them to go. We are fans of Dr. Phil, and he always says parents have to do their best to keep the other parent in the life of the kid. As any victim, she feels guilty for having reported him. And guilty thinking he punishes the kids because he hates her. The truth is that he was never interested in the kids, not even when they were married.

I've gone with them to all the previous visits, when I was her BF, now I'm supposed to be her ex-bf. I can't go uninvited. About the public setting it would be nice, but he has a right for a lot of days, a full month + in summer, and we can't tell him where to go. We want him in a good mood when he sees the kids, so we make things as easy as posible.

Me, and the family, we are broke. As in money wise. I exercise at home, and I go to a park where there are exercise thingies. At work, everytime I go to the restroom, I do 20 push-ups . It does me good. The kids move a lot at school, they do basket and soccer after, with schoolmates.

juju2

I don't know if it's the auto-correct on the phone, but I don't understand many of your sentences on your post. Bear in mind that English is not my 1st language and some expressions go over my head. Sorry.

I took the phone for a therapist, and I was going to call when things changed, I never know when to call, or start. My job provides me with 15 sessions a year, but when she is living, I think "let's save them for after she's gone". I definitely need T.

This last crisis was triggered, in part, because I was told she was uncomfortable around me, so I gave her space. And then she told me "you run from me. I scare the shhh out of you". That's a pattern. Whether I go to study, or even to the dentist, lunch by myself, or to my room to watch TV... .She later tells me I'm avoiding her in some way or another. And that their company is so awful that I don't want any part of that. But when I can be with her she tells me always that she's so uncomfortable, or she can't speak at all.  Often, if I'm not watched, she thinks I'm cheating. If I were to go have a massage (which was my vocation, btw) she would certainly think I'm screwing the therapist (male or female, she also fears I'd leave her for a man).

Before knowing about DPB I thought I would build trust, she would see I'm faithful, she would see there is nothing and no one in my life but her and the kids, and she would trust me more. But it's the other way around. She trusts me less and less. It's more like I have to do what's good for me and let her deal with it, with love, but without apologies.  But work-study-kids... .Not much time left to plan anything.

Isilme

Thanks a lot for the good wishes.

In my country, unemployment is at a critical point. We have about a 20% rate. And several groups have it harder (single moms trying to re-join the work force, for example). Grandma works at the school the kids attend. But she refuses to pick up the kids herself. That would give my GF some freedom to work at different schedules. She also doesn't want a job that won't let her see the kids 6 days a week, and I understand that. She's applied to everything. We are in a big city, so for every position available there are 500 candidates. Many are younger, more qualified, more experienced, without kids, without social anxiety... .When she's gone through training, she's got all the objectives and more. She is a brilliant resourceful person. But people terrify her. And judgement.

She's even considered prostitution! or web-cam things... .Some people pay to watch anorexics throw up. The world we live in! Luckily she turned that down. But she's asked for jobs scrubbing toilets, making pizzas or burgers (even as she can't stand the smell of food) everything. She's had some ideas and started some courses and left them.  She was an interpreter in a small town, everybody knew her. But here in the city she need to be officially qualified to do so, and she has no contacts. Nor do I.

I agree about the volunteering, and I think the T also told her. But she hates people, she's very scare of them (us). She did volunteer there in the small town, and helped her neighbors. It was a small controlled space for her. In the city, just taking the kids to school is a huge deal for her.  So what sounds great to us about volunteering, it is a nightmare to her. 98% chance she has Asperger's. The T started to look into a right to have a disability check for her, but she's leaving the T too.

There is a point about the father. If S11 could have some closure, and believe his dad doesn't hate him, he would heal a great deal. The problem is that every time he's been exposed, the father has told him to never bother to come anymore, he has called him a-hole, and "f*·ked up in the head". So instead of healing, the damage is reinforced.

It doesn't sound nutty. Seeing the ex did just that last summer. The 3 of them suddenly realized the value of good old Joe. But I'm not happy that they have to go through a painful experience just to value me. And it is traumatizing in the long run.

heartandwhole

yes, that was a text from my ex?gf. The context was that I was at the dentist for 2 hours, and she wrote me that when I went out. It summarizes what she's been telling me the last week, and frankly our whole RS. Although she doesn't say the "wanting me for life" part often.

I wanted to know what you guys make of it.

--------
Tonight when I was going to bed she asked me if she could have a hug. I think it's just a pity hug. She doesn't enjoy hurting me. But still. And these last 3 days she's told me she's in love with me many times, if only to add "but we are done" or something on that line. We've been talking a lot putting things on the table, and not arguing. She's analyzing in a cold manner, as someone who has made up her mind about leaving me.

I can make sense of everything if I just think she doesn't love me. But if she does, nothing makes total sense.

Validation is great to a point, but at some point, the person with the mental illness has to start listening to the people helping her. If I am miserable and some expert tells me what to do, I try, I don't tell him "you are wrong, you don't understand". Hey, if I'm miserable I must be wrong in something, there is something I have to change, that I have to understand. If I am blind I don't discuss with a person who sees about the colors he's telling me he's watching.

I see it as some kind of pride, but it must be a defense mechanism. They can't let go off their vision of the world, even when that vision tells them the world is a horrible place and you would be better dead. This is a cruel illness.