Second breakup by me,still attached

[Shawnlam]

Good Saturday everyone.Ive been in a relationship with someone with BPD for 6 months.I only discovered what she had the last month after much research.I broke up  with her again last Tuesday.My story is as follows and I need help coping and opinions on if she may contact me again? I’ve known her for 5 years (old job work colleagues).We started to date after I got out of a relationship of 8 years(I think she picked up my weakness).Im 41 VP in a company,home owner and was very confident and high self esteem (before her).She is 29 mother of two (different fathers) and drop dead gorgeous.With that said here is my roller coaster ride:

Started texting and mini dating in September,she wanted sex quickly I waited two months.I like to get to know someone before sex is involved.The first three months I’ve never felt so loved,never laughed so hard,I was living a dreamlike state.I though here is my soul mate ,and I wanted to live with her.She was also getting out of hell from a past relationship where she was selling her home and did ,ended up moving into her moms because she needed her to bring the kids to school every morning.
Along comes the week before Xmas where she says no forget living together for now cuz I need my mom to bring the kids in and stuff we can do this in June.?After telling me she loves me and wants to live with me so much so quick?First red flags ... .

Xmas hits I bring her to my side of the family but she doesn’t bring me to meet her sister who was having an Xmas party.But she does swear I’ll meet her dads side on New Years (promises me).Note:her mom was divorced three times,3kids with different fathers,one husband killed himself.  Along comes New Years And tada she changes her mind again and says it’s too soon? Let’s take it slow.

After that mess of emotion she starts telling me weird stuff like she used to escort,she occasionally uses pot,and all the bad things about her old friends and boyfriends.She also sporadically love bombs me,tells me she wants me and a family with me and if I’d want to marry her.

Fast forward to end of January where she starts spending more time with her friend R--- going on weekends together out of town all told to me last minute.I tell her off saying it’s not respectful and then blames me for being insecure.I only asked she give me a heads up not tell me the day before so I can plan my life.I also asked her if it made sense that every 2nd weekend she doesn’t have her kids that she books it with her friend and not me?But during the 3 first months she couldn’t get enough of me?

End of January she acts super weird and suspicious one Thursday and I just end it saying enough of your weird stuff I’m out.She anger bombs me and we don’t speak for 2 weeks although I sent her an email saying she may need help and I’ll support her and love her (I do love her).

She texts me one Monday after saying hey we need to talk:I’m like ok?That next Sunday she comes to see me and I find out she’s pregnant but she booked an abortion(her third).I support her bring her to my place and hours before the operation she tells me it won’t take much to convince her to keep it.? But she has a rare disease that .01% of woman have where they get extremely ill and could die so I tell her I can’t risk you.We get back together and continue after the abortion.Love bombs start,attention and intimacy last 2 weeks then the bizarre stuff starts again.She now knows I want a child so she keeps saying how much our baby will be beautiful and how everyone will envy us.

Fast forward one week past that she books another weekend out with her friend  so I tell her that’s the last time I get disrespected she told me the day of ?  Come on! I give her one week to tell me if she can change.The Friday this conversation was supposed to happen she has a nervous breakdown cries for hours and ruins another weekend we were supposed to be together.Then that Sunday she comes to breakfast at my house and tells me she is used to men she needs to fix,makes her feel validated and loved but I don’t need fixing.Im hard to read but she still loves me and wants a normal life with me.

The week after she tells me she is going on vacation with her girlfriend down south for 6 days (this was a trip me and her kids were supposed to go on but she screwed up her sons passport papers)so we couldn’t go .But she still goes with her gf never asking me if I wanted to go and even worse never caring about how her kids will feel about it?

That’s it for me ,can’t take the disrespect and lack of relationship anyways .I tell her kindly exactly that and she blames me again for insecurities and for pushing her out of my life because of a vacation? Completely missing the point about relationship respect and spending time with one another (or the importance). She has only one gf ,no others ... .I know her old friends who all left her because of her flip floppy attitude and victim talk.She does what she wants when she wants and when she feels alone she try’s coming back.She told me she’s done with me and to leave her alone after I said goodbye again. Everyone says she’s not done with me yet and to go no contact?

Facts on her:
Tons of sexual partners usually way below her  level... .bums or losers

Uses drugs (texted me once saying I need to fix somethings before I can have a normal life with you).I think she avoided living together cuz of this

Heavy drinker even videos herself drunk with kids in the room.

Told me she was an escort

Extremely sensitive to embarrassment even makes up scenarios

Very passionate lover and asks to be told we love her during sex

Doesn’t even know her kids shoe sizes (always bothered me)

Took three weeks to get her kids hair cut

Totally absent minded all the time stares off

Procrastinates

Argues like a 12 year old ,invents /Denys stuff

Always the victim poor me but does admit stupid decisions

Lives in a 31/2 no future/barely and assets

Weird half stories about her pasta like tests to see my reaction

Hides phone a lot :texts old ex’s that are 7 hours away

This list is endless I can keep going.

I had someone I know at her work give her a shirt back only to receive a text saying ,thanks for the shirt I’ll give you your jewelry you bought me back? So I asked why .She tells me it’s only appropriate? And that’s for insulting her and to leave her alone? I replied : I gave you your shirt back because I can’t wear it obviously! And I kept all her gifts to me and her reaction was uncalled for.Then I told her not to text me anymore too much drama and it was pointless and disrespectful to have sent me that text.She replied like a 12 year old child saying she’s done take care.Since then (1day ago) no contact from her and I think she’s off down south for a week .So am I safe is this over? And wow I feel bad like no self esteem and less confidence

[Mutt]

Hi Shawnlam,

 

Id like to welcome you to bpdfamily. I can see how stressful your ex would be with strange and dysfunctional behaviour it’s tough on you and the r/s. How did you learn about BPD? You mentioned that she pushes and when she feels lonely thensge pulls people in her life closer. I think that there’s a good chance that she’ll come back. What do you want from this r/s?

[Speck]

Welcome, Shawnlam!

 

Let me welcome you here to bpdfamily, and wish for you as much help and support as I have received.  It's clear you have a lot in common with many of us here. This is a community where we help each other, so I'm sure if you keep posting and reading you will find it helpful. It helps to know that you are far from alone.

So am I safe is this over?

When I read this, I hear the worry in your question. Are you worried that your ex will try to reconnect with you? What aspects of your ex's behavior do you find most difficult to deal with?

I believe you will be greatly comforted by the support here and the fact that we really understand what you are going through. We've all been there to varying degrees. Take care of yourself. We will look out for future posts from you.

Keep writing, keep processing, keep learning!


-Speck

[Shawnlam]

To answer the question: I deathly afraid she will contact me and the reason for this is because I don’t think I can resist her.I know it’s stupid thinking because I now know all those good times we had was just stage 1:love bombing and mirroring me so it was all fake.Yet here I am like a fool missing this? Hell im deathly afraid to send he an email opening the door for her to come back to me even though I got rid of her twice.I hate her for what’s she’s done to me , yet still love someone who frankly can’t and didn’t love me back ? What a fool I am

[Shawnlam]

Welcome, Shawnlam!

 

Let me welcome you here to bpdfamily, and wish for you as much help and support as I have received.  It's clear you have a lot in common with many of us here. This is a community where we help each other, so I'm sure if you keep posting and reading you will find it helpful. It helps to know that you are far from alone.

When I read this, I hear the worry in your question. Are you worried that your ex will try to reconnect with you? What aspects of your ex's behavior do you find most difficult to deal with?

I believe you will be greatly comforted by the support here and the fact that we really understand what you are going through. We've all been there to varying degrees. Take care of yourself. We will look out for future posts from you.

Keep writing, keep processing, keep learning!


The behaviors I had trouble dealing with was her lack of respect and just booking last minute weekends and outings with her only gf.Her cancelling of our plans at any time with no remorse or care in the world.Also the lies jesus she can lie .Plus her weird texts like ( I’ll never betray you,hurt or disappoint you intentionally).Yes she wrote intentionally.Who speaks this way? Nobody normal I know.The constant crying and her living in the past.She also says a lot of ( I’m yours for as long as you will have me,OR you will see you will leave me first.) Which I did because she sabotages the relationship always and does exactly what she knows I hate!

-Speck

[Speck]

Hello again, Shawnlam:

To answer the question: I'm deathly afraid she will contact me and the reason for this is because I don’t think I can resist her.

I understand. This feeling must be very conflicting for you. But, I'd like to share that you are not alone, as someone here is posting about this very thing everyday. You are among peers.

What are your wishes in all this? Do you think it's best for you to maintain a detached path, or would you consider learning new ways to communicate with your ex in the event that she does reach out to you in the future? If you don't yet know the answer to this, that's okay.

Keep writing, keep processing, keep learning... .


-Speck

[Shawnlam]

Hello again, Shawnlam:

I understand. This feeling must be very conflicting for you. But, I'd like to share that you are not alone, as someone here is posting about this very thing everyday. You are among peers.

What are your wishes in all this? Do you think it's best for you to maintain a detached path, or would you consider learning new ways to communicate with your ex in the event that she does reach out to you in the future? If you don't yet know the answer to this, that's okay.

Keep writing, keep processing, keep learning... .


My wishes is to bring to her attention what she has and help her if she will take me back.BUT I know I will further be pushed away from all my helpful friends and family because they all hate her.And I fear she will just play me until I’m nothing left and she will walk away from me as I lay there totally destroyed.I think I will send her and email explaining what she has and a solution for her , if she responds at all and she listens I will meet her again if she responds in anger or not at all the. I know it’s permanently over and I can move on and heal? I’m so very confused that my love VS her false love can still be in conflict


-Speck

[Speck]

Shawnlam:

Hello again!

I did not realize that you had responded because your posts are tacked onto the end of my posts (and it appears that I wrote them). No worries, though. The next time you want to reply, just hit "Reply" (at the bottom right of the whole thread) instead of "Quote" (at the top right of the individual post).

It sure sounds like you are having a tough time. From what you've last shared, it appears that you're feeling like you'd like to reconnect with your ex, but only if she's receptive to getting the right kind of help. Am I hearing you right?

There's a whole host of very helpful site articles here that can assist you going forward. Let us know what you decide. We're always here.


-Speck

[PianoDood]

ShawnIAm,
I literally had to take a break after reading just the first 2 paragraphs of your post.  Our personal situations are so remarkably similar just from that portion of your post that I had to step back and regroup.  I am going to review your post in detail and try to formulate some kind of response to relate to you my own situation.  And I pray it will help.  I just wanted to let you know that you are not alone.  Even the most confident, successful and stable person can become enmeshed with someone suffering from this disorder, BPD.  There are reasons for that, some of it inside of us. And hopefully, what I relate to you will help.  I'm not a psychiatrist or psychologist.  I only can relate from my personal experience and witness to you what how our stories parallel.  I am here on this board for the same reason you are... .seeking some kind of answer, some kind of explanation for something that seems so nonsensical.  I am just a passenger on the same ride.  But, your story so far parallels mine, just in the first 2 paragraphs.  Give me a bit to review your post and formulate my response.  You are NOT ALONE.  You are NOT crazy.  Your instincts are correct.  And there is a way out.

PD

[Shawnlam]

Thank you for that response I’m anxious in a way to hear your story but also sad you had to live a similar situation

[PianoDood]

ShawnIAm,
My apologies for the tardy response, but I am ensuring I take the time to respond before my day begins today.  As I said, I see a lot of parallels between your story and my own with my uBPD wife, who discarded in January.  I am 2 1/2 months out from that discard and 1 1/2 months since I went no contact with her and began detaching from what was a very unhealthy and damaging relationship with her.  I think the best way to approach a response is to break your post down by topic.  I may not get to all of it before I have to start my day because there is a LOT I can relate to in your story.  And as you read my responses, you will see that you aren't alone. 

Good Saturday everyone.Ive been in a relationship with someone with BPD for 6 months.I only discovered what she had the last month after much research.I broke up  with her again last Tuesday.My story is as follows and I need help coping and opinions on if she may contact me again? I’ve known her for 5 years (old job work colleagues).We started to date after I got out of a relationship of 8 years(I think she picked up my weakness).Im 41 VP in a company,home owner and was very confident and high self esteem (before her).She is 29 mother of two (different fathers) and drop dead gorgeous.

First, let me say that this board is home of many people who are coping with a relationship with a pwBPD at some stage.  Detachment from any relationship with a person we care about is hard, but detachment from a relationship with pwBPD is excruciating.  There are reasons for that.  I'm not a psychologist.  I'm just someone who has dealt with a very hurtful, damaging, toxic, unstable relationship with my wife, who is undiagnosed (very common that people with BPD do NOT get diagnosed because they don't seek treatment... .there are reasons for THAT too).  Me?  I've been a very driven, successful person all of my life.  Highly confident, athletic, well-rounded right-brain and left-brain balanced.  I spent 6 years in the USAF as an intelligence analyst in my early 20's with two of those years spent and NSA.  I built a career in IT, starting out as a systems programmer in my early 20's, working in just about every capacity in IT, analyst, systems architect and eventually worked as a Senior IT Project Manager for companies like GE, Ford and National Steel as a consultant with my own company.  I'm not telling you all of this to lay out my resume for a job. :-).  My point is that even the most successful of us can fall prey to a relationship with a pwBPD.  And, reading your post, it almost reads like a textbook explanation of how a pwBPD relates to a SO in a romantic relationship.  I know that's no comfort, but hopefully, as you read how my story relates to yours, it will give you comfort in knowing that you're NOT crazy, you were NOT the problem in the relationship (although, I will talk about things I had to heal in MYSELF that made me a perfect target for someone with BPD) and, most importantly, I hope I can relate to you the things I did for myself to detach from the relationship and begin to heal myself.  If you had told me that I would be more confident, would be rediscovering myself and would be this far along in the healing process 2 1/2 months ago when my uBPD wife discarded and moved back to her parent's house (seeing a parallel already?), I would have thought you were lying.  I was destroyed when my wife left.  My self-confidence was gone.  My self-esteem was in shambles.  She had trampled on every boundary I had and crushed my sense of self-respect and even my own beliefs and principles because she made me question the very way I viewed the world.  But, there is hope.  I will try to respond to as much of your post as I can before I have to go to work and then respond to the rest this evening.  But, wow, your story reads like a mini-transcript of my 12 year relationship with my uBPD wife. 

“Started texting and mini dating in September,she wanted sex quickly I waited two months.I like to get to know someone before sex is involved.The first three months I’ve never felt so loved,never laughed so hard,I was living a dreamlike state.I though here is my soul mate ,and I wanted to live with her.She was also getting out of hell from a past relationship where she was selling her home and did ,ended up moving into her moms because she needed her to bring the kids to school every morning.
Along comes the week before Xmas where she says no forget living together for now cuz I need my mom to bring the kids in and stuff we can do this in June.?After telling me she loves me and wants to live with me so much so quick?First red flags ... .
Xmas hits I bring her to my side of the family but she doesn’t bring me to meet her sister who was having an Xmas party.But she does swear I’ll meet her dads side on New Years (promises me).Note:her mom was divorced three times,3kids with different fathers,one husband killed himself.  Along comes New Years And tada she changes her mind again and says it’s too soon? Let’s take it slow.”

My wife and I met at a professional baseball game.  We had an immediate connection, which I understand now was more about her immediate attempts to manipulate my emotions to take down my boundaries and connect/attach to me quickly.  At the time, she was coming out of a very abusive 14 year relationship (not marriage…this is an important point) where she had 3 children with the man.  When I met her, she literally looked like she had been in a car wreck…bruises on her face, a black eye (and other injuries I couldn’t see).  This was what made me strike up a conversation with her.  I had spotted her and wondered what had happened to her.  I waited until she went up to the bar in the VIP section and I followed her up there.  I struck up a conversation with her.  We spent the rest of the night walking around the park talking, even went out together after the game and spent until 5am talking.  The connection was immediate.  Honestly?  The only reason we didn’t have sex soon was the fact that we lived 200 miles apart.  She near Detroit, me near South Bend, IN.  But, she did fly to Chicago to spend the weekend with me while I was there on business for 2 weeks.  And, yes, we had sex.  This was after only meeting her that once and talking on the telephone.  Told me she loved me (after only meeting me once) over the phone within a few weeks.  She seemed like everything I ever wanted in a woman.  Genuine, a kind, caring and loving person.  She also love bombed me with texts and little gifts.  She even told me during her trip to Chicago for the weekend that “she wished she would have met me when she was 18 and had been with only me her entire adult life”.  This was because her ex was a horrible abuser (and he was, truthfully) and she had gotten pregnant with him at the age of 18, having 3 more children with him.  Her first child died in the care of her ex’s parents suddenly, which was an extremely traumatic experience for her, losing her first child to such tragic circumstances at the age of 2 months.  Still, she stayed with the man and had 3 more children with him.  She immediately made me feel like her “knight in shining armor”, which, in her mind, I was.  And, because of all of the love-bombing and all of the stories of tragic circumstances and being a “victim” at the hands of life and her ex-boyfriend, she became my “damsel in distress” who needed rescuing because such a beautiful, wonderful creature surely deserves more out of life and I felt like I was just the guy to give it all to her.  I’m telling you this to explain that a pwBPD CRAVES LOVE AND CONNECTION, but at the same time, they have a very deep rooted fear of rejection and abandonment, which is extremely painful…gutterally painful for them.  My wife was no different.  She attached very quickly, wanted to be intimate very quickly, told me she loved me very early in the relationship after only meeting me once.  But, there is part of me that was broken that made me the perfect target for this.  I had just gone through a divorce a year before I met her.  I was feeling like I would never find “the one”.  But, more importantly, I had deep rooted tendencies to be a “rescuer” due to my family dynamics growing up.  I tended to attach to relationships that were co-dependent.  And THIS was the brokenness inside of me that made me the perfect target for her BPD behavior, especially during the “idealization” phase early in the relationship.  I remember feeling like I had never been understood so well by someone.  I felt more loved, more genuinely loved with her than I had ever felt before.  I felt like, at last, I had found my soulmate.  This is because pwBPD attach very quickly.  They want you to feel loved.  They want to throw you off balance and pull you in very close, very quickly because it bypasses the normal courting phase of a relationship where someone truly gets to know someone.  My wife feared rejection, therefore she love bombed and did all of those things to attach deeply and quickly so that there was no time for me to get to know her, her family or her life circumstances at any level of detail.  By the time I started to see BPD behaviors and traits in her personality, I was already in deep with her emotionally.  Sound familiar?  I will have to write more later.  I must get myself moving for the day.  But, there is so much more I want to relate about my story to your post.  Your story is frightfully similar.  Only the length of the relationship is different.  Your story is like a condensed version of mine.  Will write more tonight.  Just hang in there.  Focus on you.  Going no contact and detaching from all interaction with her is the only way you will start the process of healing yourself, your self-confidence, your self-esteem.  And IT WILL GET BETTER.  My choice to go no contact and completely detach was the turning point for me 1 ½ months ago, Shawn.  More later….

PD

[Shawnlam]

Thank you for the response so far what I’ve read from your experiences,seems very very similar to mine.Its scary how these people act in an almost text book way! Down right scary actually

[Daffodill]

Shawnlam, I can totally relate.  I've been with my uBPDpf off and on for over a year now and each time we break up and he comes back, I can't resist.  He's a great guy and we have history as we grew up in the same town and went to school together, which makes it even harder to break up on top of the fact that I do love him.  I tried counseling with two different counselors over the past 6 months, but they didn't help.  They just said leave him.  One did give me a book to read by Melodie Beattie called "Codependent No More" which did helps some.  But, I have found a group in the area that specializes in BPD.  I've started a 6 week support group/class for family/significant others of BPD and that is helping.  Once the class is over, I'm going to get private counseling with them as I feel they will know more how to help me since they must have experience with the type of person who tends to gravitate to BPDs (this is my 2nd bf with it). 

Like you, I am a very successful professional who has always been very strong and financially secure, so getting sucked into a relationship like this is very hard for me.  Obviously, I have some issues that I need to address that will help me either deal with him/his issues more easily or will help me to finally get out. Have you thought about counseling?  I've exhausted books and YouTube videos on the topic of BPDs and feel like I know a lot about them, but very little on how to deal with them or help myself.  I'm hoping counseling through a group that specializes in BPD will help.

[PianoDood]

Your post: "She was also getting out of hell from a past relationship where she was selling her home and did ,ended up moving into her moms because she needed her to bring the kids to school every morning."

As I said in my previous response, my uBPDw was in an abusive/toxic relationship for 14 years before I met her.  The very bruises and injuries he had inflicted on her 2 weeks prior to when I met her were still very obvious.  They were the very reasons I struck up a conversation with her because, as I said, she looked like she had survived a very serious car accident.  As we talked that first night, I learned that her ex-boyfriend had tried to kill her... .beating her with a weight dumbell and attempting to choke her with an electric chord.  He also had beat her with his fists very severely, then proceeded to leave her locked in their bedroom, refusing to let her 3 children see her.  It was only after he fell asleep 2 nights after the attack that she was able to get the children out of the house and go to the police station.  Needless to say, he spent 10 years in prison for the offense (he had a prior record).  So, this absolutely, without a doubt, triggered my "rescuer" in side of me.  There were so many red flags at the beginning.  But, before I talk about those red flags, I need to cover this.  Typically, people who are predominantly mentally and emotionally stable (we're all flawed and broken in some way) DO NOT ATTACH to someone who is unstable or unhealthy.  I'm saying that to point out that I had brokenness inside of me that, at the time, I may have been partially away of, but was CLUELESS in regard to how affected my choices in a mate or how I approached romantic relationships.  That wouldn't come until several years into the relati0noship with her.  So, I happily stepped right into the lion's den, unaware that my desire to rescue her was a flaw in me that would put me in a very toxic situation.  My wife also wound up moving back with her parents and her 3 children shortly after her ex-boyfriend went to prison.  

Your post: "Along comes the week before Xmas where she says no forget living together for now cuz I need my mom to bring the kids in and stuff we can do this in June.?After telling me she loves me and wants to live with me so much so quick?First red flags ... .
Xmas hits I bring her to my side of the family but she doesn’t bring me to meet her sister who was having an Xmas party.But she does swear I’ll meet her dads side on New Years (promises me).Note:her mom was divorced three times,3kids with different fathers,one husband killed himself.  Along comes New Years And tada she changes her mind again and says it’s too soon? Let’s take it slow."

The fact that my wife was getting out of an abusive relationship, had just suffered major mental, emotional and physical trauma and had no time to heal herself in any of those 3 forms SHOULD have been my first red flag, if I had been healthy myself, to not get into a relationship with her.  But, the love-bombing, the immediate connection, the overwhelming attention to the things that meant most to me in my life, like my love of writing, performing and playing music... .all of it was like an elixir to my soul.  And, although this parallel is purely circumstantial, I also got my first behavioral red flag at Christmas time that first year I met her.  We had met in September at the baseball game and she had flown to see me for the weekend in Chicago (the first time we had sex... .actually the first OPPORTUNITY we had to have sex).  Then, during Thanksgiving, the emails stopped.  The phone calls stopped (red flag... .she only gave me her cell phone number... .said she had no home phone).  This kind of situation is more prevalent now, but back in 2005, most people still had home phones as well as cell phones.  But, that Thanksgiving, 2 weeks after flying to see me in Chicago, she just literally disappeared.  She stopped calling.  I would leave her voicemail after voicemail on her cell phone.  No response.  I was devastated thinking she was ghosting me.  So, being fairly healthy at the time, I was appalled at what she was doing and completely stopped trying to communicate with her.  But, even then, so early in the relationship, the effect on me was tremendous.  I was literally shattered inside, even though I weathered it much better then.  Then, in late January, I received an email from her, a full 1 1/2 months after she disappeared... .disappeared through the holidays completely.  I don't remember any of the content of the email except this one line at the very beginning... ."Scott, I can't believe you would just give up and quit on what we have found with each other."  Instantly, my brow furrowed.  Huh?  I wasn't the one who disappeared.  I wasn't the one who stopped communicating.  The gaslighting and manipulation had begun.  She had me hooked, now she was trying to figure out how to deal with her own situation and still keep me hooked.  But, I still continued.  As I said, I'm no psychologist, but pwBPD seem to leap emotionally before they they look.  My own interpretation of my wife's behavior at the time is that she craved what I gave to her, but she found herself in a situation she didn't know how to deal with on any level... .emotionally especially.  And, it was the beginning of the "compartmentalization" of my exposure to her life.  I wanted her to come meet my family that holiday season.  She separated me from hers by disappearing on me completely, then contacting me again after the holidays were over, immediately trying to somehow make it MY FAULT that we had lost contact with each other.  I was so emotionally torn up by it all that I was having trouble coping.  This was before I had gotten any therapy.  This was before I had even RECOGNIZED that my rescuing tendency had roots in something from long, long before in my life.  So, at the moment, even though I was completely bewildered and hurt, it was a "RELIEF" to those awful, painful feelings of separation from this one I believed was my soulmate.  Thus began 12 years of the idealization/devaluation/discard/recycle pattern and cycle with our relationship.  That's the dynamic.  We get so enthralled with what we believe is our soulmate and then find their behavior, their compartmentalization and downright confusing discard/disappearance behavior so hurtful that it begins to throw us off balance.  I began to think that maybe I was being to harsh on her for her hurtful behavior of disappearing on me.  That's the insidious nature of being a "non" in a relationship with a pwBPD.  Unless we educate ourselves to understand WHY they do what they do, we can't possibly make sense of the behavior.  Because to us as "nons" it is absolutely nonsensical.  Their words don't match their actions, but somehow it's always the fault of circumstances or someone else... .or WORSE YET... .OUR FAULT.  That's the gaslighting, the projection, the manipulation.  And before I go any further, I have to say this.  And THIS STATEMENT ALMOST MAKES IT EVEN MORE DIFFICULT FOR "NONs" TO DEAL WITH.  I honestly don't think my wife has a clue she does what she does much of the time.  Yes, I believe she is aware, cognitively, that she's doing something wrong when she hurts me.  But, I don't think she even realizes the extent to which her disorder affects her thinking, her choices and the effect it has on other people.  And, if she DOES realize it, it's too painful to deal with the guilt and shame she feels over doing it, so she simply compartmentalizes iit, shoves it to the side and goes on her merry way.  But, regardless of whether she realizes fully, the effect on me and our relationship is the same.  It's damaging.  It's destructive.  Not just to me, but to her own life.  Here are some things I've actually asked my wife... .and maybe you can relate to some of them, maybe you can'ts... ."How can you sleep and night or look at yourself in the mirror knowing what you've done or what you're doing?"... .":)o you even understand how manipulative what you've done is?"... .":)o you understand that you are putting me in a catch-22 situation, that I'm damned if I do and damned if I don't?".  There are many more things I've asked her.  And honestly, I don't think she does understand.  I'm not a psychologist.  I've only read up on the disorder copiously since this last discard in an effort to educate myself and understand, so please take things I say with a grain of salt.  But, I honestly do not believe that pwBPD understand the full extent to which their disorder affects their closest relationships, their thinking, their choices and ultimately, the consequences that result from them.  And THIS... .THIS is something I've said to my wife before that  perhaps you and others can identify.  :)uring times when she has done things and made decisions that have literally DESTROYED me mentally, emotionally and financially, with seemingly no guilt or remorse or any ownership of her behavior, I have asked her... .":)o you have any clue how destructive your behavior is?  I don't think you do.  And the fact that you DON'T even REALIZE you're doing it... .the fact that you take NO OWNERSHIP FOR ANY OF IT... .THAT MAKES YOU DANGEROUS TO OTHERS CLOSEST TO YOU."  I know this is a very long response to such a short paragraph in your post, but the holiday parallel triggered a LOT of memories for me.

Your post: "After that mess of emotion she starts telling me weird stuff like she used to escort,she occasionally uses pot,and all the bad things about her old friends and boyfriends.She also sporadically love bombs me,tells me she wants me and a family with me and if I’d want to marry her."

Whether they intend to behave the way they do or not, pwBPD cause a lot of chaos (in your life and their own), cause a lot of emotional trauma to those closest to them and seem to have an addiction to drama.  That was my experience with my wife.  And the circumstances of her personal life beyond our relationship, even with her own family and children, suffered.  What you experienced with this short two sentences mirrors much of what I experienced with my wife.  What I have learned about the disorder, these two sentences basically describe the "push/pull" of the disorder.  They want and deeply CRAVE intimacy, but they FEAR being close enough to attain it fully and genuinely.  Telling you about bad things that she did was a subtle, subconscious (perhaps?) warning to you, which actually gives her an "out" or and "excuse" later.  Let me explain and perhaps you're see a parallel.  My wife has repeatedly told me that she "is a hard person to deal with".  A generic statement, nothing specific to explain in what ways.  Basically, it was a "get out of jail free card statement.  Because later in the relationship at discard or when she trampled my boundaries and did things to hurt me, she would say, "I warned you that I was hard to deal with."  Yet, in between, the love-bombing, the inconsistent periods where she would do things that would actually match her words of love.  Most of the time her actions didn't match her words... .and it throws us off, makes us off balance.  And, in my case, over time, it caused me to begin to focus more on her WORDS than on her ACTIONS.  Because her WORDS were what I HOPED was true.  But, in reality, her ACTIONS were what was true.  And it began to undermine my own sense of self, what I believed to be true about virtues, about boundaries, about the very core beliefs I had developed all of my life... .integrity, truth, honesty, commitment.  Everything.  That's the insidious nature of the disorder.

More in the next post in response to the rest... .

[PianoDood]

More in response to your post.  Sorry that my responses seem to be wordy.  I find it hard to express things unless I do it to minute detail.  LOL.  A fact that used to drive my uBPDw nutzo.

Your post: "Fast forward one week past that she books another weekend out with her friend  so I tell her that’s the last time I get disrespected she told me the day of ?  Come on! I give her one week to tell me if she can change.The Friday this conversation was supposed to happen she has a nervous breakdown cries for hours and ruins another weekend we were supposed to be together."

This happened quite frequently with my wife, especially in the early phases of our relationship when it wasn't as easy for me to find out "the truth".  She would quite literally disappear on me for weeks, sometimes months.  There are so many examples, I'm just going to explain one example.  She had disappeared on me for 5 months.  She had come to visit me and my daughter (11 at the time) for the weekend.  I was trying to include her in every aspect of my life.  Mind you, we are still living 200 miles apart almost 5 years into the relationship where she had promised over and over to move to me (because it was easier... .she had custody of her children, I had joint custody).  Yet, there was always an excuse why she couldn't move.  I made decisions without her... .well YEAH, I can't just sit here in limbo while you disappear on me for weeks or months.  I have children to think of.  I have a life to live.  I have to make decisions.  So, her excuses were, the house you're in isn't big enough... .you have a higher standard of what's acceptable, basically making it WRONG that I provided a good living and a nice place for my children (this was PROJECTION... .she COULDN'T... .she was living with her parents still after 5 years of bad decisions).  Always an excuse why out relationship couldn't move forward.  And, many times, her excuses were contradictory.  For example, she would say that she "needed a man who could support her" whenever she was in need and I was hesitant to just wire her $500.  But then, when it came time to move, she "had to be able to move there on her own first to make sure that I wouldn't leave her abandoned."  Huh?  You slam me because I'm not helping you, yet you won't move to be with me because you have to be able to do it on your own?  Sound familiar in context?  OK, back to my original point with this response.  My father died in 2010.  This occurred during one of her 5 month disappearances (what I not recognize as a "discard".  She had come to visit me and my daughter.  Had a wonderful time with me and my daughter over Memorial Day weekend.  My daughter became attached to her and used to call my wife (girlfriend at the time) of her own volition while she was at her mother's house, just to talk to my wife.  That's how attached she was to my wife then.  Well, 1 week after coming to visit,  my daughter wrote a birthday card for my wife, telling her that she was her "future step-mom".  2 days later, before my wife (girlfriend at the time) even received the card my daughter sent her, she manufactured an argument about something that didn't even make sense at all and disappeared again.  Only this time, she disappeared on my daughter too.  And it broke her heart.  5 months later, my father passed away.  Haven't had any romantic contact with my wife during that 5 months.  I had gone no contact and was severely struggling with it all.  And, in a moment of weakness, dealing with my father's death, I contacted her and she agreed to come to my father's funeral with me.  During that visit, it was as if we had never skipped a beat together.  She idealized, she manipulated and I bought it.  At one point, being unsure of our status together, I asked her how I should introduce her to people she didn't know at the funeral and wake.  She said, "as the person you're trying to build a life with."  Four days after my father's funeral, after she had gone back to her parent's house 200 miles away, my mother calls on call waiting while I'm talking to my wife (girlfriend).  So, I say, honey, that's my mom... .can I call you right back?  She hangs up on me without a word and disappears again completely.  When we got engaged 6 months later after another recycle, she went on a Caribbean Cruise with her "girlfriends" two weeks after we got engaged.  And as I watched her post photos on Facebook, I noticed something.  She wasn't wearing her 1.1 carat engagement ring I had bought her.  So, for 4 days, I got to sit and wonder what my fiance was doing on a cruise ship without her engagement ring.  Upon her return, her excuse initially was, "I wanted to safeguard it, so I put it in the safe in my room".  To which I replied, "The way to safeguard an engagement ring is to WEAR IT."  Then, she explained that she was on the cruise with her ex-boyfriend's sister and she didn't want to cause drama with her, her ex-boyfriend and children by letting her know we were engaged.  Huh?  So, avoiding drama with YOUR EX-BOYFRIEND AND CHILDREN is more important to you than OUR RELATIONSHIP?  Trust me, I understand what you encountered with your BPD SO, Shawn.  Completely.  It's hurtful, confusing  and puts us in a position where we either have to choose to cut this person we love and adore out of our lives or let our boundaries get trampled while they take no ownership for what they do.  It's HORRENDOUS!  And the push/pull is undeniable in your post.  The separation and "compartmentalization" of your relationship with her... .separating you from family and friends.  What I concluded about this behavior with my wife is this... .she compartmentalized our relationship and kept me and our relationship separate from parts of her life for a purpose... .so that, should she reach a point in her personal circumstances or in our relationship where she needed to discard and run back to her comfort zone, separating me and compartmentalizing our relationship in her life allowed her that "out" with minimal loose strings to tie up.  Does that make sense?  And that, in and of itself, is a hurtful thing to realize.  My wife was literally keeping me out of certain aspects of her life so that she could have less fallout should she need to discard again.  Does that sound familiar?


Your post: "Then that Sunday she comes to breakfast at my house and tells me she is used to men she needs to fix,makes her feel validated and loved but I don’t need fixing.Im hard to read but she still loves me and wants a normal life with me."

I can go 2 ways with this one, because I have experience both things I'm about to explain with my wife.  First, her statement that "she is used to men she need to fix, makes her feel validated and loved" strikes me as pure projection.  She realizes inside of her that she's the one who needs fixing, so she projected that on you.  The other way I see that is as gaslighting.  My wife did the same thing.  She would do such emotional and mental damage to me and her behavior would elicit NORMAL HUMAN REACTIONS to her behavior, then she would use those reactions against me to make me out to be the crazy one.  So, along with this being projection, I also interpret this as your SO trying to twist things around on you to keep you unbalanced and unsure of yourself because THAT GIVES HER CONTROL OF YOU EMOTIONALLY.  My uBPD wife used to do this to me A LOT.  Especially when she trampled on a boundary and there was an attempt on my part to actually try to resolve the issue and get her to take ownership.  But, the funny thing was, when I hit a spot in my life where I needed HER assistance and support, she discarded and ran.  And, these two sentences also serve as another example of the push/pull of BPD.  "You're a flawed human being, but I'm doing my best to still love you and have a normal life with you."  Puts herself in a position of power (and control).

The week after she tells me she is going on vacation with her girlfriend down south for 6 days (this was a trip me and her kidswere supposed to go on but she screwed up her sons passport papers)so we couldn’t go .But she still goes with her gf never asking me if I wanted to go and even worse never caring about how her kids will feel about it?

This type of thing happened frequently with my wife.  It happened more when we lived 200 miles apart, but still occurred on a smaller scale after we got married and were actually under the same roof.  Everything that she did like this was ALWAYS LAST MINUTE.  Maybe the announcement to me was last minute, but the planning obviously wasn't.  The weekend of her final discard in January, she texted me at the end of her work day to tell me that she and her sister were going downtown to have dinner together.  On the surface, that's fine.  But, I'm not invited.  And, like many times before, it's always a  "last  minute announcement".  First of all her sister lives 1 hour away.  She's not driving 2 hours round trip just to have a burger and fries with you and go home.  But, there was more to that situation, as I found out.  She stayed out until 2am that night, never called to tell me she would be late after "going to have dinner".  No indication from her what time she might come home, not even a general idea.  So, I stayed awake and worried about my wife.  I didn't try to communicate with her, because most rational people know that it's HER responsibility to communicate with me to guard my trust and not leave me sitting worrying about her until 2am.  What I've found in regard to my wife is this... .she will AVOID CONFLICT AT ALL COST.  Especially if it means that she might be doing something I won't agree with or that she might have to take responsibility for.  What I've learned in my study of the disorder in the past 2 1/2 months is that pwBPD struggle with conflict because self-evaluation and any situation that forces them to have their core wounding exposed... .anything that makes them feel guilt, shame or look inside themselves to take responsibility IS TOO PAINFUL FOR THEM TO DO.  So, to avoid conflict, when my wife wanted to do something that she knew I would not approve of, she would just lie, not communicate with me, go and do whatever she wanted to do without being honest with me and then attack me and deflect and do whatever she had to do in order to avoid even dealing with what she had done or the effect it had on me.  It is a defense and avoidance tactic for her.  But, the effect it had on me and on our relationship was immense.  My wife would lie about things that didn't even make sense to lie about simply because she wanted to avoid any kind of conflict or confrontation.  And it severely damaged our relationship and made it impossibly unstable.  And that's the thing.  Their disorder doesn't take into consideration consequences.  That's how my wife (and other BPD individuals, most likely) painted herself into corners she didn't know how to get herself out of.  She didn't think of the consequences.  She just chose and did.  And then didn't know how to deal with the consequences.  She even admitted that to me several times during the course of the relationship... .that she didn't know how to fix the damage she had done. 

Your post: "That’s it for me ,can’t take the disrespect and lack of relationship anyways .I tell her kindly exactly that and she blames me again for insecurities and for pushing her out of my life because of a vacation? Completely missing the point about relationship respect and spending time with one another (or the importance)."

Oh, so much comes to mind for me from just these few sentences.  Yes, eventually, if we are able to hold on to some semblance of self-respect through it all, we will eventually get fed up with the constant pain, disrespect and total disregard of our boundaries.  And that's how I explained it to my wife... .I told her the day she discarded, before she came home and announced she was, again, moving back to her parent's house, that, "I can't live with someone who doesn't respect me and clearly doesn't genuinely love me".  And, it's a normal BPD reaction to blame you... .for EVERYTHING.  They cannot take responsiblity because doing that causes them pain and threatens their "fake self".  To take responsibility is to admit they were wrong and that threatens them.  At least, that's what I have learned about my wife's behavior.  Taking responsibility for one's behavior requires introspection, self-evaluation and admission that you are wrong to another human being.  That's THREATENING and PAINFUL for someone with BPD who has a very fragile, unstable sense of self.  That' describes my wife perfectly.  She feels empty.  Numb.  Emotionally, she is a robot most of the time, unless she's getting a "fix" from something external or is feeding off the love, affection and validation of others.  It's why she appears to be hard-hearted, to have no remorse or guilt over things she does.  She compartmentalizes and puts on a shelf out of sight anything that is too painful or emotionally threatening.  And,j because of their disorder, they have a very hard time relating to "normal" kinds of thinking in regard to romantic relationships.  I often found myself wondering how my uBPD wife could possibly NOT understand that relationships require honesty, respect, intimacy and affection... .she SAID many time that's what she wanted and knew what was required... .yet, her actions never matched her words.   


Your post: "She has only one gf ,no others ... .I know her old friends who all left her because of her flip floppy attitude and victim talk.She does what she wants when she wants and when she feels alone she try’s coming back."

This is the nature of the "recycle".  They do what they want when they want to, but when the consequences cause them to feel alone and empty, they seek out that love and validation "fix" again.  That's my wife to the "T".  In regard to relationships... .my wife had/has many very superficial acquaintances she calls friends, but no truly "close friends", perse.  That's because my wife fears someone truly getting to know her.  It's the fear of rejection and abandonment.  The fear of someone actually seeing beyond her "false self" she portrays.  That's why our relationship was so push/pull.  She craved the love, attention and validation she got from me, but she could never truly give it because she wouldn't allow me to truly get close to her.  She used to tell me, "You are the only one who seems to ever have a problem with me."  To which, I would reply, "Yes, because I am the only person in your life who knows you this intimately and has to depend upon you for trust, honest and respect at such a deep level."  Non of her family members, besides maybe her children, have to depend upon her for anything.  Non of her friends have to depend upon her for anything because they are all basically superficial acquaintances.   And yes, that feeling of emptiness and deadness emotionally is exactly what motivates pwBPD to recycle or reach out for something knew.  And many times, based upon my experience with my wife, they have such a low self-image that going back to what used to provide that fix is much SAFER to them than trying to reach out for something/someone new and going through the uncertainty of having their false self exposed again.  Many time, I've told my family members, "She wouldn't POSSIBLY come back this time after what she's done."  Yet, she did.  And she acted as if nothing had ever happened and did it under the guise of "caring about me" and "not being a heartless person", when none of that even made sense in the context of reality. 

Man... .I'm writing  a book... .sorry... .more in the next response... .there's just so much to say and so many parallels... .

[PianoDood]

Your post:  "She told me she’s done with me and to leave her alone after I said goodbye again. Everyone says she’s not done with me yet and to go no contact?"

Those were the exact words my wife has spoken to me at many of her discards.  "I'm just done."  "Leave me alone."  "Stop contacting me."  She has even gone as far as to change her cell phone number.  Yet, she still recycled.  People who say "she's not done with you" may actually be seeing things more clearly simply because they are not stuck in the FOG you are stuck in related to her disorder.  I did the same thing.  My family members used to say, "If you ever take her back, I swear, I will disown you."  And in my mind, I couldn't imagine anyone having the nerve to come back after the horrible things she had done and said... .and even more than that, why WOULD she want to come back if I was the horrible, unlovable person she portrayed me as to her family and she told me I was.  Yet, she did. 

Shawn, it's hard to detach from this kind of relationship.  The interaction in the relationship created by the disorder makes the bond incredibly emotionally charged.  Beyond what is normal in a healthy relationship.  And, to some extent, the bond is a "TRAUMA BOND".  Much like the bond that gets created between hostages and captors in hostage situations.  It's traumatic and it creates dysfunctional dynamics that are hard to understand and break through for those who are "nons" caught up in the melee.  I've been through 12 years of it.  But, the choice to self-preserve and go no contact and SERIOUSLY DETACH COMPLETELY is the only thing that set me on the course of healing.  Yes, I did start therapy to help myself a year before the final discard because I  recognized what was happening, even though I wasn't yet emotionally strong enough to do what was right for me.  But it put me in position where this time, when I saw her devaluation and discard cycle repeating, I was able to hold firm to my boundaries and allow myself to go through the discard, knowing it was going to happen... .because I had made up my mind that if she discarded again, I had no choice but to break free this time.  I had had enough.  And I told her so, before she discarded.  Did that make the pain any less?  No!  I was destroyed.  I was devastated.  I spent weeks unable to function.  I spent days in bed, completely engulfed in pain and despair.  But, then I told myself that I had 2 choices.  I could either let the situation continue to control my emotions and let it destroy me or I could do whatever I could possibly muster in terms of strength and resolve on a daily basis, no matter how small that effort was, to take positive steps to deal with my situation and rebuild myself.  And that's what I did, day by day.  Sometimes it was hour by hour, minute by minute.  But, it HAS GOTTEN SO MUCH BETTER!  It took time.  I still miss her.  I still get angry about the things she did and said.  I still have triggered thoughts and emotions about it all.  And I realize that may occur for YEARS because of the trauma I went through in the relationship.  But, I'm relearning myself.  I'm rediscovering myself.  I'm actually beginning to be comfortable being alone.  I'm building my self-esteem.  And doing those things is different for everyone.  What I do may not be what you need.  But, I would be happy to share more detail about what I've done in the past month to reconnect with my sense of self and set a new normal for myself that allows me to move forward with confidence and healing.  It's nor perfect and I literally feel like I'm inventing the next step as I take it sometimes.  But, I'm taking that next step.  And it does take time.  There is no magic bullet to erase things.  I told dear friends many times in the past 2 months that I "just wish this was over" because the pain was so excruciating at time and I felt like I would be stuck in that misery forever.  But, that's the distorted thinking that the trauma causes to us.  I started feeling stuck and like I would never be happy, that I would never be free of a pain that was more overwhelming that I ever thought pain could be, emotionally.  But, that was distortion in my thinking.  I'm in so much better place today as I write this than I was 2 months ago after my wife left.  And that journey started when I logically/cognitively CHOSE to go no contact and completely detach.  My emotions certainly weren't going to let me do that.  My emotions still wanted to text her, email her, send her flowers at her work and try everything I could to talk to her.  But, there was no good that would come of that.  I realized that continuing any contact with her was only (1) giving her whatever "fix" she needed from the situation, knowing she still had emotional control over me and (2) was keeping me stuck in an abyss of pain.  That's when I said NO MORE.  No contact.  Separate.  Detach.  And that's when my healing started.  And yours will too.  You are stronger than you think you are, even in the midst of the pain and struggle and longing.  That will pass, slowly, in increments that my seem imperceptible.  But, it will pass.  The key is focusing on YOUR healing, YOUR life, YOUR VALUE, YOURSELF!  You're not crazy.  Your perceptions of your relationship with your BPD SO and her behavior are spot on.  Don't doubt your instincts.  That's one of the tactics... .getting us to doubt our intuition and instincts.  It's what allows them a foot in the door to control us emotionally. 

You're right.  She may very well not be done with you yet.  But, have you reached the point where you're done with her?  For your own sake?

My very dear friend, whom I haven't seen face to face in 31 years, but by telephone and video chat, regularly communicates with me... .and we share everything together... .she has asked me time and time again whenever my wife discarded or disappeared in our relationship... ."ARE YOU DONE YET?"  And, thankfully, I can honestly say, yes, now I"m done.  Where are you in that respect?

PD

[PianoDood]

Shawn,
 being a musician and a performer most of my life, I always relate most everything significant I go through to music somehow. I remember listening to this song When I was a senior in high school back in 1982. But having gone through what I've gone through now, I interpret the lyrics of the song much differently. I couldn't insert my wife's name instead of the name Laura.
https://youtu.be/ALp9rfnPJ8c

Laura (by Billy Joel)

Laura
Calls me
In the middle of the night
Passes on her
Painful information
Then these careless fingers
They get caught in her vice
Til they're bleeding
On my coffee table
Living alone isn't all that
It's cracked up to be
I'm on her side
Why does she push the poison on me?
Laura
Has a very hard time
All her life has
Been one long disaster
Then she tells me
She suddenly believes she's seen
A very good sign
She'll be taking
Some aggressive action
I fight her wars
While she's slamming her doors
In my face
Failure to break
Was the only mistake
That she made
Here I am
Feeling like a f***ing fool
Do I react the way exactly
She intends me to?
Everytime I think I'm off the hook
She makes me lose my cool
I'm her machine
And she can punch all the keys
She can push any button I was programmed through
Laura
Calls me
When she needs a good fix
All her questions
Will get sympathetic answers
I should
Be so
Immunized
To all of her tricks
She's surviving
On her second chances
Sometimes I feel like this
Godfather deal is all wrong
How can she hold an umbilical chord
For so long?
I've done everything I can
What else am I supposed to do
I'm her machine
And she can punch all the keys
She can push any button I was programmed through
Laura
Loves me
Even if I don't care
That's my problem
That's her sacred absolution
If she had to
She would put herself in my chair
Even though I
Faced electrocution
She always says
I'm the best friend that
She's ever had
How do you
Hang up on someone
Who needs you that bad?

[Tattered Heart]

This post was moved from the Detaching Board to the Bettering Board. Just a reminder that run messages are not allowed on the Bettering Board.

[Tattered Heart]

HI Shawn,

Welcome. Sorry that your relationship has been so up and down over the last couple of months. It's pretty common with pwBPD. It's only been a couple days since you guys broke up. Have you heard from her again?

It seems like she has a way of getting you to react in pretty emotional ways, pushing your buttons, getting angry, etc. It's really annoying that she makes plans with you then changes her mind. I'd be frustrated too.

During this time apart, how could you begin planning your response to her to help you stay calmer when you are frustrated with her?