Part TWO - Conflict Receding but still a lot of navigation to be done.

[sladezy]

Hey Wentworth, how's things going man?

Have been trying sending them back in the clothes they arrive in, the problem is they rarely have shoes on let alone pants when they get here so the issue is things not coming back. The bags for daycare have been better organise the last 2 weeks so it is some progress there. I'm looking into getting a copy of my own blue book. I didn't realise these could be ordered. Still no progress on the daycare app I've been trying from both ends, her n the daycare but having no luck. I've done nothing on the birth cert front just yet. I've read back over my journey of my threads and ups n Downs of learning. At the moment I feel some peace, I got the audio book of loving someone with BPD it was good and I got through it quicker than I'd have been able to read it all. I feel like my communication is really improving atleaat via text. Hopefully it will start translating into communication in person.

I asked recently if she would be interested in working on improving our communication. She curiously asked how I proposed to do that. I mentioned high conflict couple without naming it, explaining what I'd been learning and how it would be good if we were both trying these things together as conflict takes two. She instinctively asked the name of the book so I mentioned she may be reluctant at the title but assured her it was about the content not the title. As likely expected she straight away got her back up asking what would lead me to this book given our current situation. I asked her to explain what the problem was as I didn't understand her concern. Rather than justifying why I was reading it but she didn't reply. She asked me to call our eldest daughter because she wanted to talk to me. Instead I could hear my daughter crying saying no I don't want to talk to daddy I want to see him. Which shook me up abit. I tried to explain that it is an option / choice if we both wanted to be with the kids every day. She seemed to think it was not an option. I asked why this was and she said while we are both seperated. I asked if she felt like she didn't have a choice surrounding this issue. She responded saying yeah, I can't have it both ways I understand this. I explained yes she was correct things can't be both ways but I felt seeing my kids everyday is a good reason to resolve or undersolved issues and asked why she felt like she didn't have these same choices. To which she said that under no circumstances was she going to put herself through trying to reconcile our relationship. Agreed she would work on communication but reconciliation and she would be out. I said that's ok I'm not trying to push an agenda and that improving our communication was a big one for us. Then bowed out of the conversation with some politness. Haven't heard from her since except the following day my eldest called from her phone to talk to me. I'd written up a message that day but I still haven't sent it. Would likely just make things worse anyhow. That's where I'm at, at the moment. Drop off again tomorrow. I don't expect any break throughs I think we will both just be avoidant of conflict n not communicate our wants for fear of starting an argument... .Atleast I know I will be.

Well I was flicking back through the messages while writing this on my phone and ended up writing the recap in a message to her and sent it included the message I wasn't going to send and the part about saying I thought it would make things worse. I've stuffed up big time here I think.  >.< God damn trying to get all that off my chest while being so tired.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[sladezy]

As you can imagine a days worth of discussion and accusations followed this. I'm so so sick n tired of the back n fourth, up n down, black n white, avoidance, refusal, continued conflict that is our current relationship. There is nothing I can say or do to even manage let alone improve this situations for any extended period of time. I could honestly just lay down n stare into my fish tank for the rest of my life. I'm going to have to withdraw myself from her and just live with the things I don't have that I need from her.

[Radcliff]

I totally could stare into my fish tank for a long, long time!

It sounds like you at least were able to do a fair bit of communication without things blowing up.  That's great!  And, if I'm reading right, then you sent out a little bit "too much" in a message when you were tired, and it didn't turn out so well?  It happens.  This is how we learn.  Taking a rest and worrying less about things you want from her seems like a good plan.

The single most important thing you can do is to keep yourself healthy.  Worrying less about things you can't control, staying well-rested, doing things that relax you and give you confidence, etc.  The healthier you get, the less reactive you will be when she does something.

Things are OK here.  I'm not sure what's going on in my wife's head at the moment, but I'm trying to worry about that less and "do me" as I think you (or perhaps someone else in a similar spot) said earlier.  It's working pretty well.

WW

[sladezy]

I'm spent. Emotionally and mentally. I'm doing my own thing and my tank is empty.

[Radcliff]

I'm spent. Emotionally and mentally. I'm doing my own thing and my tank is empty.

Understood.  Take care of yourself.  Let us know what you're doing to recharge yourself personally if you'd like to.  Give us an update when you're ready.

WW

[sladezy]

Just purely defeated and run down. I've got back to basically just ignoring her / low as hell contact. I can honestly say this is the worst it's ever been and she is so far detached from what I would consider a reality it's not even funny. I read her tinder profile "hmu is you are a romantic conversationalist. I'm looking for an open relationship where we can chat opening about who we've been banging". Honestly I couldn't believe my eyes. This is the example she's setting for our children? And the standard she's setting for herself? I really feel like there's nothing I can do anymore and nothing I can learn that will change anything. I think she's too stubborn to turn around even if she wanted to this time. My kids are virtually doomed to become a statistic and I'm a single dad who forever has no time to himself. At this point I'd probably believe she was already seeing people before we broke up.

I've got the daycare app sorted but still need to sort the blue book. Honestly I'm that tired from work and with the kids that on the 3 afternoons a week I have to myself I just lay on my bed usually I don't have the energy or drive to get anything done unless I need to go to a shop or something to get something.

[lighthouse9]

Dude. I can't imagine how hard that would be to read. I've avoided any sleuthing onto social media and otherwise because I can just imagine I would see something very similar, and I just don't have it in me.

Take care of you. It's ok to be defeated for some time. Sounds like low contact is the safest thing for you and that you're making good choices in a world of not great choices to make.

Keep an eye on the energy level in case it slips into a full blown depression. It's more than possible. I've had to keep an eye on it for myself lately. Regardless though, do you and take care of you - it sounds like you're doing a good job of it. I'm so sorry this is happening and would be sick if I saw what you saw.

[Radcliff]

sladezy, I agree with lighthouse9, wow, that must have been hard to read on so many levels.  This won't get "all better."  But it can get better.  You and your kids can get to a good place.  They are absolutely not doomed to become a statistic.  Some kids have trouble no matter how well the parents do, and some kids do well no matter what parenting issues there are.  There are so many factors at play.  The only thing you can do is control what you can control.  Enjoy the next years -- the physical grind will get better as they get older, and you'll be able to have ridiculous amounts of fun with them.  During the single digit years, they will think you walk on water!  (But they will not always do what you say!  )

This is like one of those epic sagas where the hero retires to a mountain cave to heal his wounds before coming down at a later date to slay more dragons, Romans, or whatever it was he was slaying.  Those afternoons lying down?  Absa-freaking-lutely!  Smart single parents of small kids lie down whenever they can!  Sometimes teenagers make you need to lie down, too 

If you are resting and giving her space, that's what you need to do now.  Heal yourself.  The things she does give you helpful information.  Look at it this way -- unhealthy behaviors that reveal themselves are good to know about.  It's sad, maddening, upsetting, and a dozen other things, but good to know.

Tell us about your kids when it's a good time to type a bit.  What are their personalities like?  What things do they enjoy doing?

WW

[sladezy]

I'll skip over what my kids are like for just a moment as I haven't the time right now. However they are wonderful most of the time. I've just been informed her welfare payments from the government have been cut off n she now ow's them almost 10 thousand for claiming the wrong things. I really hoping this might lead to a turning point however unlikely and doesn't push her into a worse way that women can make money. That would be deviation. Any tips on dealing with this? Seems like she's going to have maybe 200 a week to live off for atleast 1 or 2 months. I've not offered to bail her out. She asked me to take over the daycare payments to which I agreed to take over payments for one child. I'd also said I was in a position to help if she was in a position to help herself but she didn't contact after that so I'm guessing not or she needs time to look at other options maybe. I think she's freaking out over it all and it's come as a shock. I don't know if she was purposefully claiming the entitlements or it was a mistake. I'd be in a potion to help if she would make a start on seeing a psychologist and take it seriously. I doubt that will happen somehow but truely hope so.

[lighthouse9]

Again buddy, what a turn of events. You handled it perfectly though. As far as the kinds of things she could turn to to make money, I hate the say it but those are her choices and she might make some more bad choices before hitting any sort of rock bottom. You handled the news so well though it sounds like. Offered support within your boundaries, prioritized the kids, and didn't (in front of her) get wrapped up in the drama.

Now you're home it sounds like... .which is where this stuff is and should hit you. Let it hit you (safely). Hold it away from yourself and observe it for a second if you can. I've had many "are you freaking kidding me?" moments when I've done this that have lead to a resigned sort of laughter even. Like, really? This is my life right now? This is really happening? It's a reality check of sorts, and I've recently had to call some friends in on the process to remind me how totally absurd and messed up things are right now. It's become a dangerous new normal, and it's not a normal I want to let myself get used to.

So the hero just came down from the mountain top for an urgent memo about some destruction going on in the town. He could come out and use all his resources, which are still recharging and healing, to defend the town against an oncoming threat. But, he warned the town about this. He offered help before. He even pointed out others that could ally with him and said that he'd jump in the fight if those allies were called in. But he knows that he can't do this one alone and that very likely if he jumps into this fight he might lose other things that are important to him. So he reminds the town of the ways he would support them and offers some help that doesn't endanger him.

Now, comes the hard part where he goes back to his mountain and has to continue recharging and healing and has to tune out the pleas for things he already said no to previously. He keeps an eye on his other, more vulnerable towns (his children). But he must stay on his mountain top and keep healing and recharging in his cave. Hopefully there are some good therapists up there

For real though, as awful as this sounds, this is one of those natural consequences moments. She has to face the natural consequences of her decisions. There are still so many options for her for support, but you can't make her take those routes. I've spent the last two months on pins and needles half expecting to get a call about some natural consequences that my wife might have finally encountered. I've also spent that time considering that more than likely she's found some other person to come down from their cave and make things right for her temporarily. In that time, I've found some good recharging and healing space. The scars from battle are still there, but they're good reminders of what's to come if I'm not careful and overextend myself.

What are you going to do right now with this news? Are you able to retire a bit today and rest? Any good ways to distract yourself?

[sladezy]

Thanks for the words, I've got the kids now so they're a good distraction. I'd let her know about my terms of being involved in the situation. Taking therapy seriously and working on improving our communication. I let her know that I wanted to help but I couldn't be apart of a one way arrangement. She didn't come to the party not that I expected her to. However she asked for help with something else and I just said you are awear of my terms. She then swore and sent off the passive aggressive attacks. I could easily be kind and helpful in this situation but u think it would be one thing after another until I'm paying for everything and doing whatever she wants.

Her mum told me ex might have to take the other child out of daycare because she can't afford it. I think if this happens I will have to step in and pay for it because it's not fair on the daughter to miss out on the social and educational aspects of "going to school" she obsolutely loves it. Is this going back on my word / boundries?

[Radcliff]

Her mum told me ex might have to take the other child out of daycare because she can't afford it. I think if this happens I will have to step in and pay for it because it's not fair on the daughter to miss out on the social and educational aspects of "going to school" she obsolutely loves it. Is this going back on my word / boundries?

The kids' interests trump everything.  Make sure your child gets what she needs and fit the adult relationship stuff around that.  Part of respecting your boundaries might be setting it up as a loan, or preserving your rights in some way (it would be good to talk to a lawyer).

Regarding the expense of school, you could check with a lawyer to see if you can keep records of the expenses and count them as contributions to her if you end up splitting.  Or simply send her an e-mail saying you are loaning her the money in the best interests of your child, but want her to pay it back.  These are just ideas.  The point is to start with the assumption that your daughter stays in school and work around that assumption to get as good a situation for you as you can. 

WW

[sladezy]

That's for the clarity Wentworth.

Things came to a head again yesterday. Attacks for not helping her on her terms, refusing to acknowledge mine. Saying my psychologist isn't doing her job, insinuating I suffer from more than anxiety and depression. Saying she wished our split was mutual because other parents she's spoken to have been able to split civil even while living together. She now wants the kids more so she can get the payments back when until now she has been happy with the arrangement. She wouldn't be able to have them more and do uni and work it's that simple. She would get the other days care and drop them off somewhere and keep to her more important schedule. She says she's getting "tested" for all mental illnesses but refuses to talk about it. I don't really believe it if I'm honest. Her mental health is none of my business. Started going on about how I'm still trying to get back together with her. I had to pull the pin and tell her not to contact me again until she's ready to treat me like a human, stop avoiding me, shutting me out, belittling me and blaming me for her own wrong doings when she wont do anything to help herself. Not to ask me anything or tell me anything until she's ready to change. She's sent 3 messages since I've drawn the line. Wish me luck.

[Radcliff]

I'm sorry to hear that things have come to a head again.  It certainly sounds like a stressful, anxiety provoking interaction with her.  You are trying to protect yourself, and that is certainly understandable.  Did you just go NC indefinitely?  I've got two questions for you.  The first is how practical that is to maintain, given that you have kids together with no formal orders.  The second is about boundaries.  When we talk about setting boundaries, we are talking about controlling our own behavior to protect ourselves from a particular harm.  Yes, I understand you're trying to protect yourself.  But could it be seen as you trying to control her?  Is it likely to be effective, either in getting her to do what you want, or in protecting you?

WW

[sladezy]

Wentworth,

It's not practical but I don't care. The boundary states enough is enough and draws a line in the sand. It will most definitely protect me and very unlikely change her. She's not going to change. Even when I'm not suggesting to get her help or patch things up she still tries to make it out like I am. I know everything I've read says I need to change because it's easier for me to change than it is for her. I've just drawn the line in the sand. I'm not playing this game anymore. I don't want this drama in my life.

[lighthouse9]

Hey Sladezy,

I'm glad you're still here and you have a place to vent your frustration. How did it feel to draw a line in the sand?

Forget the whole "It's easier for you to change." I hate that nonsense. None of this is easy. I think it would read better if it said "You're more capable of change right now." Also, what is this change business? For me, it hasn't been about changing so much as it's been about restoring myself back to a place of more calm and confidence. That's who I was when we met. I lost that and didn't need to. I could blame her, because yeah things got crazy, but ultimately I was the one who let go of my center and let my boundaries be trampled.

I carry a post it note with me in my pocket (For the last several months) that says "She's doing the best she can right now." Sometimes it feel like total BS. But, what if it's true? If I were in her shoes, I'd want that kind of compassion and understanding. Her best though, doesn't have to be enough for me. That's where boundaries come in and where, as Wentworth said, I get to choose my own behavior to protect myself from harm.

So you don't want this drama in your life, ok, I get it. You communicated a boundary that may or may not be plausible, given that you have to be in contact because of your kids.

What would it look like, at least for you, to write down and brainstorm what kind of communication you would accept from her, and then what you will do when she doesn't communicate in those ways? Is it time to bring in a third party, like a lawyer, or use one of the messaging services for parents that documents all communication?

Also, she seems to be weaponizing your desire (even if it's waning) for reconciliation. How do you put that back into your control, because it is after all, YOUR desire?

For me, that desire, despite all that has happened, comes from my values, my vows, my respect of the institution of marriage and what I committed to when we started this journey. It comes from a love for the woman I know she can be when not in crisis and out of the reality that I can be very patient when I stay focused on my work and not changing her. It comes from having stepped back, evaluated the situation, and asking myself what I could and couldn't live with. She's in no place to discuss those things and may never want to (in which case, yes, I may have to follow through with divorce). Right now though, I still have some resolve left in me even though we aren't in contact and she's been up to Lord knows what with Lord knows who. For me, I still see her illness and her resisting help for it. For all I know though, she really is getting help and really is learning to manage it. For you though, it sounds like she's still going off the deep end when it comes to communication with you and just wants to shift blame.

So, what would it look like for you to set up boundaries to reduce harm to you and your kids, without demonizing her and maybe, if you're up for it, accepting that she's doing the best she can right now. You can decide at any point that it's not enough for you, for right now or forever.

Sending you so much support man, you've got this.

[Radcliff]

sladezy, these sorts of situations can be completely demoralizing at times, and I totally get the urge to just say to heck with it.  That said, if the situation is ever to improve, you are the one most likely to be the one that makes that happen, and most likely by adjusting your strategies.  Yeah, I know, it's freaking annoying, but it's true.  It doesn't have to happen tomorrow, though.  It will wait until you are ready.

What would it look like, at least for you, to write down and brainstorm what kind of communication you would accept from her, and then what you will do when she doesn't communicate in those ways? Is it time to bring in a third party, like a lawyer, or use one of the messaging services for parents that documents all communication?

What are your thoughts on what lighthouse9 says here?

WW

[sladezy]

Hey guys,

I honestly feel like I'm flogging a dead horse, I've tried so many different angles and she's made no attempts to change only to move on. The problem for me is the inability to communicate on any level effectively and get any kind of positive response. I set a boundary she stamps her feet, I need to address things about the children it either isn't acted upon of I'm attacked for it. I try to encourage help and I'm insulting, I've got nowhere to go. In myself im in a better place when I'm not dealing with the fall out of her actions. In regards to the communication it would more be for things to be followed through on, there is always an excuse or someone else causing it not to be resolved. The attacks and passive aggression if I'm standing my ground or setting a boundary need to stop. I'd like her to be open with me about her mental health (or atleast about what she's doing about it) which is none of my business apparently. I'm at a point now where I what I want or need is a necessity because I have been treated completely unreasonably and unless she takes a step toward making things better between us (together or not) than I'm walking alone anyway and would be far better off without her in my life.

[lighthouse9]

I honestly feel like I'm flogging a dead horse, I've tried so many different angles and she's made no attempts to change only to move on.

In regards to the communication it would more be for things to be followed through on, there is always an excuse or someone else causing it not to be resolved. The attacks and passive aggression if I'm standing my ground or setting a boundary need to stop.

I'll be honest sladezy, she doesn't sound like someone who is moving on, she sounds like someone who wants to keep her claws in you while doing whatever the heck she wants. Sure, she might be moving on romantically and not want that kind of relationship with you, but this kind of behavior indicates (to me at least) that she's still trying to hold on to you in one way or another.

That doesn't mean she'll reconcile, though I don't have a crystal ball - and you can still have hope for that and find ways to take her claws out of you. Remember, you can't change her. So you're flogging a dead horse with all of your different angles. I agree. Let's step back - is there anything you haven't tried to get what you want? It sounds like what you want is follow through with the kids right now. Considering what I just said about her still keeping a hold on you (you can disagree with this of course), does this change your approach at all?

[Radcliff]

sladezy,

I feel your frustration.  Honestly, lately I've been feeling like I'm in a very similar place.  I'm going to share some thoughts with you, then I'm going to have to turn around and follow my own advice

In reading your latest post, I saw a mixture of needs/desires related to coparenting and a possible romantic relationship.  Your bar is pretty high for a romantic relationship (not unreasonably so, just in a very different spot from where she is now).  It's frustrating.  How do you feel about letting go of that question for a bit and concentrating on coparenting, which still is a big challenge in and of itself?

Thinking about coparenting, do you think you could list out the changes you want to see, and put them in three lists -- one for changes you think are realistic to expect, one for changes you are not sure are realistic, and a third for expectations you may need to let go of?

Right now, I'm very frustrated with the lack of my wife and I to be able to communicate, and the poor state of our coparenting relationship.  I'm banging my head against a wall trying to improve it.  I keep realizing and then accepting a limitation of the situation, only to then stumble on another limitation which I have to accept.  I'm not going to be able to change her, and I'm failing miserably at getting her to see my perspective.

I'm thinking that I'll need to scale back and focus only on my direct needs and the needs of the kids.  Any logistical issues where she's noncooperative I'm going to have to stop being upset that she's not being a stand up person in my mind, and figure out workarounds.  It pains me to say this, because I really don't like this, but I may need to totally accept that she won't change, including her inability to see the harm she has caused me, or to communicate in ways that don't continue to hurt me.

How about your situation?  What are the things you think you may need to let go of in order to get to a less frustrating place?

WW

[sladezy]

lighthouse,

When I said I'd tried al different angles, what I was talking about was in reference to communicating better and more efficiently, lowering conflict and trying to keep things civil. I haven't been focused on a relationship with her for some time now. Though I am open under certain circumstances to it however unlikely.

Wentworth,

My life is chugging along nicely and moving forward the only struggle I'm having is when it comes to dealing with her or not meeting her demands.

Update,

So I think I've effectively enforced a boundry regarding being involved in helping her out of her situation (maybe). The update is that apparently her psychologist / councillor wants to have a 1 on 1 session with me to discuss my concerns about her mental health. If she didn't want this to happen I guess she wouldn't have bothered tell me. But I find alot lately she will say something n it never ends up happening or being mentioned again so this might be one of them. What do you guys make of this opportunity? Have you been in this position before? I'm thinking the psychologist / councillor is probably already bias towards her views n stories.

[Radcliff]

sladezy,

I have met several times with my wife's therapist.  It has seemed helpful, but ultimately disappointing.  Your mileage may vary.  I still think it is a good thing to do.  Don't allow yourself expectations that your wife's therapist will see things your way, or that he or she will work to "fix" her in the way you hope he or she would.  The thing you can successfully, do, for the sake of your kids especially, is give factual observations of what you've seen happen.  Your wife is undoubtedly not giving her therapist a full, undistorted picture.  You can provide history and reporting, and that is a valuable contribution, but get yourself ready for the possibilities that your wife's therapist will still be mostly swayed by her version, or that even if he or she believes you totally, that your wife will still not get better.  Just bear witness, telling it like you saw it, then let go.  The more calm and balanced you appear, the more likely your reporting is to be believed.

WW

[sladezy]

Wentworth,

I feel like I would need to spend a couple of days documenting everything that has happened in the last 4 months since leaving the house so that I don't lose my train of thought. It seems odd that this is happening now after I said I'm not going to help her while ever she doesn't seek help and shuts me out. Claiming she has been to the therapist 6 times (which if she had she would have been back to the doctors to get an extension on the mental health plan) I think she's been 3 times. Is this her trying to include me so that I will help in her situation just to be shut out again when she's back on her feet?  I don't know if I'm ready to relive the events of the last 4 months by reading over and remembering everything I can to put have a list to refer to.

[Radcliff]

sladezy, don't take me too literally when I say "history."  You don't have to write a book, or burden yourself too much.  The meeting will probably be 50 minutes or so, is that right?  Think about the three most important problem behaviors, and examples for each of them.  It's very useful for her counselor to have a viewpoint on what's going on that is independent of hers.  If you speak of her in the way we try to speak of our pwBPD on Bettering, you'll come across as pretty level-headed.  You also may get some interesting feedback from her counselor.  Does that approach sound like something you'd be interested in?

WW

[sladezy]

Hey guys,

Just an update on this ever evolving situation. I haven't had a chance to meet with her psychologist yet as requested. I know that my ex has apparently been screened for a number of different mental issues which I'm not really sure what's involved in that or what it might lead to but she had to explain herself extensively and then answer a long questionaire to go with it. When asking she started snapping at me again so I left it alone.

Anyway she's been complaining to me for the last 4 days about how she is too exhausted to work as much as she's having to work n still struggling to make ends meet. She wants the children one other night a week so she can get her payments from the gov n not have to work so much. (personally I find this disgusting). She's convinced that me giving up another of my dad's is the only answer. I've held my ground and been explaining how I feel sympathetic for her situation but I'm not responsible for fixing it and that there are other ways she can sort the situation out. She kept pushing n pushisg but I haven't taken responsibility or blame from her as hard as she's tried to project that onto me. It all came to ahead today when asked what she had to do to get me to give her the children another night. I came back stating what me being involved in the situation would look like. Which did not give her what she was requesting however it gave her an opportunity to see the kids more if she wanted to by spending time as a family, put study on hold, work to pay of her debt, attend couples councilling to fix our messed up situation and rebuild trust between us, then return to studies after everything is back in order. I made sure to make it clear that she was free to make her own decision and that I'm happy for things to remain as they are if that's what she chose. At first she liked all my ideas except she could never enter into another relationship with me ever again but the conversation ended in her saying seemingly angrily but who knows (all this was communicated over text as usual) that I want to be together, fine, whatever, you win, I can do this anymore. Then later stating she is defeated n that she has lost. I'm not really sure what will happen next, if anything at all but I have no expectations around what happens next.

Until next time.
Sladezy

[Radcliff]

Thanks for the update.  If you are giving her choices, and you can live with all the choices, that sounds like a good plan.  It did seem like a long list of choices, though.  If you feel you are a capable parent for the time you have the kids, you should not consider voluntarily yielding any time, but I think that's already your position, which is good.

Carrying on text conversations like that is exhausting.  Are you doing that much?

WW

[sladezy]

Wentworth,

It's not so much a long list of choices as it is kind of a pathway out of her financial position, answers concerns about the kids and unites our family in a way that I feel is suitable under the circumstances and what it would involve if I was to be part of the solution. I've really stuck to my guns and put my foot down on what I believe is right. Things don't have to pan out that way ofcourse, that's her decision and she will have to find alternative solutions ton her situation if she doesn't want me involved.

Up until this point our communication has been predominantly via text but it seems we are planning to have a face to face meeting soon and hopefully get involved in councilling.

 

[Radcliff]

 Got it.  I think we're on the same page.  You've articulated a path.  She can choose to follow it or not.  It did seem a little complicated to me, at least out here on the Internet.  I'm not saying it's not all good -- it probably is.  But from the pragmatic perspective of dealing with her, since she's working to cope, you might focus the most energy on the improvements you'd like to see first.  Counseling seems like a great idea.  The first thing to decide is what the goals of the counseling are.  If you were sitting in front of the counselor right now, what would you say your goals are?

WW

[sladezy]

***deep breath*** hey guys, it's been alittle while and my mind has been such a wash I find it hard to remember what's happened or happening. I've kind of just taken a back seat on the situation and let it drive itself for a little while. However in saying that alot has taken place. Some of which I probably won't recall. I finally had a chance to get around to seeing her psychologist (once with her once without). It was good to atleast get my side off my chest and explain what I had been experiencing. Unfortunately based on what she had been presented with from my partner she did not sure the same beliefs as I did, however she encouraged my suggestion of trying to work through some DBT exercises and pointed out a few inconsistencies with the stories I was receiving. My ex has since come to the decision that we can make things work n need to go to couples therapy to discuss each others needs. We've been on two dates that were nice and done a few things with the kids together and I've spent a few afternoons there and not dinner. She's very standoffish to be intimate with me but otherwise the interaction are pleasant or seemingly well adjusted. However the financial struggles she was or is seeming having, have disappeared and not been mentioned or explained, I've asked once or twice about them and other things like trying to map out a plan of attack but they basically just go unanswered or spoken around and not about which is rather confusing. I'm unsure at this point if I can trust her motives or if I'm just a convenience. We are going away together this weekend where she claims she will be intimate but doesn't want to jump straight back into things at home. I got snapped at and accused of a list of things this afternoon trying to talk through some issues about her over extending herself. Which she quickly said sorry for and blamed on being tired. As I said everything is a wash lately and I'm starting to run out of recount even though I know there is alot more I can add.

Looking after myself has been ok, I still have very little time for myself but I have just enough here and there. I'm fairly resilient to alot of the projection now and don't take things so personally but I'd say I'm still struggling with wording things correctly or what to do next.

[Radcliff]

Hi sladezy, sorry to be slow to reply on this thread.  It's been a few days.  How are you doing?  I imagine with the increased contact you've got a lot on your mind.  How are you sleeping?

WW