Bracing myself for an impact

[snowglobe]

I could describe this the only way I can- similar to the well known emergency exit simulations before the airplane take off, I’m trying to remember the coping strategies all tools. I’m bracing myself for turbulence and perhaps even crash landing. My uBPDh is entering BPD twilight zone I learnt to recognize and fear. Instead of stop, drop and roll drill I’m trying to prevent or even reverse this episode, even though I know that I’m a little too late.
We are back at home, to the readers who don’t know my story, I’m following my uBPDh on his business trips to another city, 6 hrs away. I do that for many reasons; some of the rational behind is, he lives with “out of sight, out of mind” mentality, there isn’t any object permanency when it comes to the interpersonal relationships. He goes through initial stage of sadness and grief even, quickly replacing people, if they aren’t in close proximity of him. I’m trying to save our family, I see great potential in him, on the good days, I also don’t want to leave my children without a father and financial support that he provides. We are mostly away two weeks out of a month, this arrangement began in December of 2017 and lasted till now. I initially hoped that once his business is established and oiled up we won’t be spending as much time travelling. Little did I know, that will be picking up the speed and velocity rather quickly. He never discussed logistics and sacrifices that our family would have to endure for the sake of his success. It went in an unspoken agreement that I traveled along with him, and we would come back home once his partner took his turn staying and watching over the business. We are 5 months in, and it’s been very difficult. When we come back home to our children, he acts like an annoyed stranger who’s been forced into uncomfortable rooming arrangements. He hasn’t made any effort bonding with our two children, d14 and s10. While we are away they are being looked after by my parents, who live with is full time. It’s breaking my heart to see how ever so cautiously our children trying to elicit some kind of emotional bonding with my uBPDh, and he is distancing them from him, as if they weren’t his own flesh and blood. He leaves for work “at home”, we have another office in the same city we live in, and comes back around 4 pm, at his will, he calls it “executive hours”, meaning 4-5 hrs max. He is his own boss, so at work he watches iTube videos and hunts for new guns and ammo at the actions. It’s his way of killing time. When he is home, he appears annoyed, bored and agitated. Once he’s eaten early dinner he watches the news and politics, after he watches hockey and random you tube pranks. He doesn’t get up to check up on school work, or interact with the children, or do any kind of activity. There isn’t any genuine or otherwise interest to even speak to them. I didn’t notice it as much when we were living in the same place all the time, for one reason, as my therapist explained to me. The work that we were supposed to share, 50/50 in terms of nurturing and parenting, was done solemnly by me. I provided 100 % for the children and still manages to take care of my uBPDh’s needs. Now that we are traveling so much I can feel the void more then I ever have. My sole purpose for existence has been catering to his needs and making sure that his needs are met, while forgoing mine and my children’s. I’m greatly conflicted in terms of the next step, I believe that if, or more when, I stop accompanying him on the trips he will find a replacement, as he isn’t able to be alone. He will also try to deny reasonable financial suppport, moreover, he will try to make me pay for abandoning him through cutting down on the lifestyle that our children have been used to, just to hurt me. On the other hand, I feel the dissonance growing inside of me, and the void left by not seeing my children daily, or parenting then is crippling me to the core. I don’t remember being this conflicted in a long time.
On top of my inner struggles this home visit has been disappointing to say the least. He’s been steadily ignoring the children and me, preoccupied with silly videos and constantly demanding new video games. I have been doing my best at validating, not jadying and keeping him away from video gaming. When he plays, his addictive personality causes him to dysregulate and become verbally and emotionally abusive towards me and the kids. I know that it’s already happening because he refuses to look me in the eye, even facing me is out of the question. When I initiate a conversation it’s mono syllable or something exceptionally rude, to which I reply “we don’t speak to each other rudely/this way/ I won’t continue with disrespect between us”. He stops the insults and retreats inside of himself. He also doesn’t connect with me emotionally on a physical level. It’s never emotional moment that grows into sexual. His attempts at intimacy are one sided, at times he isn’t even looking at me. When he acknowledges, its as if he is bestowing his sexual advances on me, and I should be great full. I feel conflicted and depressed. One can’t share from an empty cup, and mine dried out for a while”. How do I begin to untangle this mess, while being proactive, pragmatic and practical?.

[snowglobe]

I feel so lonely, that I want to weep. It’s been so long since I was last caressed or looked at lovingly, I can’t even remember the last time. My uBPDh is lacking empathy or understanding of his actions. I’m trying hard to escape this triangle of playing a victim and holding him in a prosecutor role. For this road only leads to more drama. I don’t even have any more tears to shed. I made a decision to go all in, in hopes of keeping this family afloat long enough for his business to run its course and things go back to comfortable routine that included him having healthy sport hobby, me raising my kids, going to university, seeing my friends. I’ve sacrificed it all to keep him from finding a replacement for me. Do I really have that low of a self esteem to think I’m so easier replaced? Or do I just know him well enough to know that after spending 17 years with me, he doesn’t really know me, nor does he care to know.

[snowglobe]

I’m writing here to bring some kind of solace, an outlet, to find my peace within myself. My troublesome agreement clearly caused a lot of psychological issues within, I never felt myself worthy of love, interests or companionship, if it didn’t include sexual exploitation of my body or me serving the man. How do I begin to put the peaces together if it was never whole to beggin with. I’m working with a therapist for 3 weeks now, it’s a slow and difficult proces.

[babyducks]

Hi Snowglobe

How do I begin to put the peaces together if it was never whole to begin with. I’m working with a therapist for 3 weeks now, it’s a slow and difficult process.

That's a really good question and I am glad you asked it.    How do we put the pieces together if we weren't whole to start with.    The simple answer is we build a whole new person and a whole new approach to life.    and yes while that may sound 'simple'   it is very much a slow and difficult process.   it's also scary.   frightening.   

you start by modeling healthy behavior in small steps.    What do I mean?    well when you say to him "we don't speak to each other this way/rudely"  you are modeling healthy behavior.    and that has worked for you.     now pick the next item and model healthy behavior.

whose responsibility is it to regulate video game activity?   yours or his?

 

.
   He’s been steadily ignoring the children and me, preoccupied with silly videos and constantly demanding new video games. I have been doing my best at validating, not jadying and keeping him away from video gaming.   

you know you can't change how a person behaves, you can't make some one make healthy choices,  you can't force some one to act in ways beyond their capacity.    and you are completely correct, it's not sustainable to try.

so after dinner when he disappears back into you tube or a video game what would happen if you said 'it's a beautiful day, me and the kids are going to park for an hour come with us'   or 'I've wanted to see the new exhibit at the museum, the kids and I are thinking about going tomorrow after school'.

I am guessing you are going to say he won't come with you.    and you know what.   that's okay for right now.   you are going to keep modeling healthy behavior and go to the park for that hour.   everyone will be happier,   you, the kids and him.     him because he got what he wanted, which is to clearly be left alone.   you keep walking down a healthier road.    he may eventually follow you.   or he may not.     

this enmeshment you have with him is not going to work long term.    you have the inner strength to take the steps you need to make a whole and functioning you.    start with baby steps.   go back to school and finish your degree.    take up a hobby sport yourself.    go out to watch a live hockey game with the kids.   break the pattern any way you can.

sometimes the first step is the hardest one.

'ducks

[snowglobe]

Hi Snowglobe


That's a really good question and I am glad you asked it.    How do we put the pieces together if we weren't whole to start with.    The simple answer is we build a whole new person and a whole new approach to life.    and yes while that may sound 'simple'   it is very much a slow and difficult process.   it's also scary.   frightening.   

you start by modeling healthy behavior in small steps.    What do I mean?    well when you say to him "we don't speak to each other this way/rudely"  you are modeling healthy behavior.    and that has worked for you.     now pick the next item and model healthy behavior.

whose responsibility is it to regulate video game activity?   yours or his?

 
you know you can't change how a person behaves, you can't make some one make healthy choices,  you can't force some one to act in ways beyond their capacity.    and you are completely correct, it's not sustainable to try.

so after dinner when he disappears back into you tube or a video game what would happen if you said 'it's a beautiful day, me and the kids are going to park for an hour come with us'   or 'I've wanted to see the new exhibit at the museum, the kids and I are thinking about going tomorrow after school'.

I am guessing you are going to say he won't come with you.    and you know what.   that's okay for right now.   you are going to keep modeling healthy behavior and go to the park for that hour.   everyone will be happier,   you, the kids and him.     him because he got what he wanted, which is to clearly be left alone.   you keep walking down a healthier road.    he may eventually follow you.   or he may not.     

this enmeshment you have with him is not going to work long term.    you have the inner strength to take the steps you need to make a whole and functioning you.    start with baby steps.   go back to school and finish your degree.    take up a hobby sport yourself.    go out to watch a live hockey game with the kids.   break the pattern any way you can.

sometimes the first step is the hardest one.

'ducks

Can you please give me an example of the “next step” healthy behaviour? I wholeheartedly wish I could give the kids their dad, who converses with them daily, shows an interest in their lives, wants to spend time and resources on them. From their perspective it’s almost like living with a ghost. He is there in the flesh, but his heart hasn’t been there.
To answer- it’s his job to regulate himself, this much I know, the only reason for me setting that boundary with PlayStation is- I’m protecting myself and my children that I see half of the time from abuse. I’ve been sitting with myself last night- and realized. This separation and divorce I fear so much from the children, not being able to see them daily is already happening to me in other forms. I’m still living and breathing. I’m still making plans, life is forcing me to face my worst fears. Knowing my uBPDh it will be an ugly battle, which I would rather avoid at all costs. I don’t have any energy or fight in me left.

[snowglobe]

Dear “baby ducks”,
Thank you so much for replying to me,
This inmeshment, which also serves a purpose, allowing us to continue functioning as a family, is no longer a healthy coping tool. I’m not sure if it has ever been. I’ve been working so hard all these years on “us, we, ours”, so much so that now there isn’t any “me, mine” left. He is still continueing to live his best life, and I’ve become an extension of himself. He often hates this extension and burdened by it. I’ve fought with him all summer and part of fall to be able to accompany him on his trips in fears of infidelity, practicality- if he doesn’t pay to someone to clean, wash and cook, he will bring this money into our family budget. He also won’t go out and make new “friends” with benefits he so often tells me about.
I’ve been unsuccessful in my attempts to “capture” his interest and emotional investment. You are absolutely correct, the most frightening moment is right before the jump.

[Enabler]

Snowglobe, your emotional anguish is so real and apparent in your writing. You have described you impossible predicament and with all impossible predicaments there is unlikely to be a painless way out. You have tirelessly and honorably tried to protect everyone from hurt and maintain your family unit, and this is commendable. I'm a visuals guy and I see 2 visuals... .spinning plates and a game of twister. You are so desperate to avoid anyone getting hurt, you, your H and your kids that you dash around tying yourself up in knots attempting to keep all the plates spinning. Any one of the plates that falls will be painful and you feel as though if one falls, all of them will drop, crash to the floor, break and everyone's dreams will be shattered into a million pieces. Am I right?

You accept that it's impossible to keep all the plates spinning forever so really you're just kicking an inevitable can down the road, self sacrificing yourself for the sake of no one. Is anyone in this dynamic happy? Are the kids happy? Are you happy (you've already said you are not)? Is your H happy? From what you have said I strongly doubt that anyone is actually happy.

It feels like your primary choice here is ":)o I continue chaperoning my H on his work trips?". You believe you know the consequences of ceasing and those consequences are likely bad. But, he is an adult, he is an emotionally impaired adult but he is an adult none the less and capable of choice. Is it about time you prepared yourself for a plate or two to maybe drop so that you can concentrate on the plates you are supposed to be minding (like your kids, and you) and spin those in the best possible way?

This is not me suggesting you leave your husband, I am suggesting you allow him to be free to bare the consequences of his own choices devoid of your protection. This may result in one of you choosing to end the relationship because he chooses to behave inappropriately. This is easy for me to say I know, but the picture you paint is impossible to maintain and one plate will drop eventually. Stop caretaking the borderline.

[snowglobe]

Snowglobe, your emotional anguish is so real and apparent in your writing. You have described you impossible predicament and with all impossible predicaments there is unlikely to be a painless way out. You have tirelessly and honorably tried to protect everyone from hurt and maintain your family unit, and this is commendable. I'm a visuals guy and I see 2 visuals... .spinning plates and a game of twister. You are so desperate to avoid anyone getting hurt, you, your H and your kids that you dash around tying yourself up in knots attempting to keep all the plates spinning. Any one of the plates that falls will be painful and you feel as though if one falls, all of them will drop, crash to the floor, break and everyone's dreams will be shattered into a million pieces. Am I right?

You accept that it's impossible to keep all the plates spinning forever so really you're just kicking an inevitable can down the road, self sacrificing yourself for the sake of no one. Is anyone in this dynamic happy? Are the kids happy? Are you happy (you've already said you are not)? Is your H happy? From what you have said I strongly doubt that anyone is actually happy.

It feels like your primary choice here is ":)o I continue chaperoning my H on his work trips?". You believe you know the consequences of ceasing and those consequences are likely bad. But, he is an adult, he is an emotionally impaired adult but he is an adult none the less and capable of choice. Is it about time you prepared yourself for a plate or two to maybe drop so that you can concentrate on the plates you are supposed to be minding (like your kids, and you) and spin those in the best possible way?

This is not me suggesting you leave your husband, I am suggesting you allow him to be free to bare the consequences of his own choices devoid of your protection. This may result in one of you choosing to end the relationship because he chooses to behave inappropriately. This is easy for me to say I know, but the picture you paint is impossible to maintain and one plate will drop eventually. Stop caretaking the borderline.

Dead @Enabler,
The spinning plates that you are describing is exactly what I feel like living day to day. It’s extremly draining and unfulfilling to live this way, with no prediction of when we leave and come back. Always at his will, or worse other people’s. His control of me is beyond what I can describe, ranging from repremending me for spending time inefficiently (read not the way he wants me to), to belittling my physical appearance and financial control. He is then one who makes the money, his call is the final when it comes to purchases and decisions.
I’m terrified of his plate dropping, I’m fairly certain it will crack in some way. This 45 yo man is completely lacking emotional tools to function in a relationships when he isn’t being chaperoned. Adding his dysfunctional functioning within his foo I prepare myself for hostile take over. When his all his resources including time, effort, finances will be allocated to his narcissistic and BPD mother, and financially cunning and exploitive younger brother. I also fear that once I see this reality unfold, all of my motivation and perseverance will fade away and I will prepare for a combat to protect interests of mine and my children’s. it’s ironic how I always catch myself thinking “my” children. I often find myself locked in a power struggle over providing things that are in my children’s best interest or their needs. Extracurricular, education, therapy, money for clothes has to be coerced and earned by me, in order to be delivered to the children. It isn’t the fact that he can’t afford it, it’s the fact that he is frequently dangling a possibility of removing this support from them that stops me on my tracks and proves to be a very powerful manipulation tool on his part. Somewhat like this: “you don’t pay attention to me?. Bam, cut down or better yet quit d14 extracurricular activity. She is fat and hopeless anyway, nothing good will come out of her”. You don’t do as I say?. Bam, why are we spending so much money on s10 therapy. You don’t please me?. Bam, start cutting down on quality of food, your lifestyle is too “luxurious”.
When I write these sentences, I realize that his manipulation in “favourable circumstances” is shocking. It’s partly why I’m so frightened to start making changes within myself.

[formflier]

  I wholeheartedly wish I could give the kids their dad, who converses with them daily, shows an interest in their lives, wants to spend time and resources on them. 

   

This reminds me of thoughts I used to have a lot... .and sometimes still do.

For me... .I focused so much on controlling and fixing another person... .and giving that person to my kids (I wanted a mom for them that didn't accuse, yell ... .basically do BPDish stuff)... .that I didn't focus on what I could give them.


Summer 2014 was a big time for me... .as I made a shift to "be in my kids world"... .to be deliberate about improving my  relationship with each of my kids... .and trust they would sort our their relationships with others.

The difference in my life and my relationships has been amazing.  Frankly... .my wife has calmed as well, although when she does have episodes... .perhaps they seem more extreme... .or perhaps they are just more shocking because they are more infrequent.

Back to you... .

Please reflect in therapy if you are not giving yourself to your kids and others... .because you are trying to deliver your husband (kids father).   Or at least the version of a husband/father you want to show up.

FF

[snowglobe]

 

This reminds me of thoughts I used to have a lot... .and sometimes still do.

For me... .I focused so much on controlling and fixing another person... .and giving that person to my kids (I wanted a mom for them that didn't accuse, yell ... .basically do BPDish stuff)... .that I didn't focus on what I could give them.


Summer 2014 was a big time for me... .as I made a shift to "be in my kids world"... .to be deliberate about improving my  relationship with each of my kids... .and trust they would sort our their relationships with others.

The difference in my life and my relationships has been amazing.  Frankly... .my wife has calmed as well, although when she does have episodes... .perhaps they seem more extreme... .or perhaps they are just more shocking because they are more infrequent.

Back to you... .

Please reflect in therapy if you are not giving yourself to your kids and others... .because you are trying to deliver your husband (kids father).   Or at least the version of a husband/father you want to show up.

FF

Dear @formlier,
Thank you for yet again lighting a way for me too see more clearly. Your steady emotional support enabled me to compartmentalise separate issues and to adress them in more thought out way. With your insight and ability to dissect the issues, I was able to see my role in our conflicts. As a result the bleeding has almost stopped. Almost... .now, in calmer waters I see the underlying issues more clearly. One of the problems I have, is that no therapist is taking responsibility to guide or help me discover what the right path to follow. My uBPDh black and white thinking isn’t allowing flexibility in the travel arrangement. It’s kind of all or nothing approach. Either you come every time, or stay home and I will get over it, building myself a separate life away, without you and the kids. I don’t doubt that somewhere deep inside he has the love for his family. Yet, his constant issue of loyalty with primary female role, aka me vs his mom, competing demands: providing for his family vs providing for foo, unhealthy situations: spending quality time with us vs observing his high brother doing “boys things”, combined with his changing attitude towards us (family) is greatly affecting my well being

[formflier]

  My uBPDh black and white thinking isn’t allowing flexibility in the travel arrangement. It’s kind of all or nothing approach.

So... .what is your role in this?

Why do I ask?

You don't control his thinking... .you do control yours.

I've got to ask about "basis in fact".  How many times has he actually replaced you with another woman in the 17 years (I think I have that number right) of marriage? 

I get it... .that he has run his mouth a lot (BPDish people tend to do that... .)

Last:  Thanks for your kind words... .to give credit where credit is due "the bucket analogy" came to me from Babyducks and I've found it very helpful.  It ties in nicely with personal boundaries... .to also put boundaries around problems. 

Problems have a way of conflating themselves... .which is usually unhelpful.

FF

[snowglobe]

So... .what is your role in this?

Why do I ask?

You don't control his thinking... .you do control yours.

I've got to ask about "basis in fact".  How many times has he actually replaced you with another woman in the 17 years (I think I have that number right) of marriage? 

I get it... .that he has run his mouth a lot (BPDish people tend to do that... .)

Last:  Thanks for your kind words... .to give credit where credit is due "the bucket analogy" came to me from Babyducks and I've found it very helpful.  It ties in nicely with personal boundaries... .to also put boundaries around problems. 

Problems have a way of conflating themselves... .which is usually unhelpful.

FF

I imagine you are asking me for my role because I fought so hard to be able to come with him on the business trips... .it was a way of ensuring that we stay connected and keeping our family intact. Circumstances changed, what I throught was an occasional overnight trip, became more of the living arrangement.
What do you do to eliminate persuasive thoughts? It’s like a broken record playing inside of me, if you stop interjecting yourself, saving the day, being useful he will replace and leave you... .(all stemming from the small talks he has had with me over the years) aka “ I love you only as long as I find you useful. If you aren’t saving me, playing a daily role in my life, paying attention to me I will find someone who will. You better believe, I can afford it. “ the other side says “how can you leave your children for such prolonged period of time when they need you the most?. Even when you come back home, you are placating him and trying to divert his attention to the family, thus taking away from the children. What do my children see?. Mom chasing ever escaping dad?. They didn’t choose to be born, it was your choice. How can you choose him over us? (Something my d14 says lately)
I am not aware of him actually committing infidelity, I’ve only witnessed one emotional somewhat affair with an employee overseas. He was communicating with her in questionable way, she was flattering him, and he was Sharing his daily life with her. They never met physically and I wrote to her to leave him alone. In his correspondence with her I read peculiar things that surprised me. First, the other woman was asking about me. He obligated her interest responding: when she asked “what is your wife like?” He replied “she is an amazing mother”. At first I couldn’t put my finger on it, but then I realized that his response wasn’t: we are close, she is beautiful, we understand each other, I love her, anything indicating our relationships” what I saw was, through his eyes I was only a mother of his children. The other woman (his employee) was just a woman, who he asked about her day, shared his day, laughed at weather, it was plain as day, his flirting was outside of professional grounds. Yes, he didn’t seek her out, she crossed the professional boundaries first, yet narcissistic personality in him couldn’t fight the allure of flattery and ego boost. When I saw her pictures and did a compare cement in terms of looks and iq, as most women do, I laughed. She had nothing on me. Yet, this seeming innocent occurrence left a long lasting aftertaste of mistrust.

[formflier]

Thanks for the quick response... I know it's a hard topic.

Was there anything "romantic" or "sexual" in the correspondence you wrote?

Anything else at all in the correspondence that you considered "inappropriate" or "unprofessional".

Again... I know these things can be tough to think through... .  You have made amazing changes in the way you interact with your hubby... .that's obvious in your posts.

My hope is that you can build on your momentum... .towards a healthier you... a healthier family.

FF

[snowglobe]

Thanks for the quick response... I know it's a hard topic.

Was there anything "romantic" or "sexual" in the correspondence you wrote?

Anything else at all in the correspondence that you considered "inappropriate" or "unprofessional".

Again... I know these things can be tough to think through... .  You have made amazing changes in the way you interact with your hubby... .that's obvious in your posts.

My hope is that you can build on your momentum... .towards a healthier you... a healthier family.

FF

@formflier,
In their correspondence I could see a plain flattery on her part, living in a third world country and working for my husband’s company she was trying to land herself “the boss” and immigration ticket. Phrases such as “where have you been all day, I began to worry/miss you/ have you see xyz (business stats) you must be worried (outside of her job description and competency) validation and fishing for common grounds, poetry and lyrics reciting, invitation to come and visit her country “you should come, I will show you xyz, it’s lovely this time of year. Praising his good looks and humour, “wow, I couldn’t not stop laughing at the joke you made, it lights up my entire week” are among things I clearly remember. It’s been 10 years... .his replies were “oh, my day went ok, tell me more about your country, I was busy but meant to reply... .” it was one of the hardest times in our marriage, it took every ounce of self control to fight through the “gas lightning” “you crazy b$&tch, how dare you spy on me?. It’s all on your stupid head, she is there and I’m here, she is my employee and there isn’t anything going on”. Yet, every time he opened his messenger and smiled while typing away I knew it was her he was talking to... .

[formflier]

Hey... .  

I know this is hard to talk about... .yet it is important that when we are communicating on here... .that there is clarity.

Was there anything sexual?

Was there anything romantic?

I definitely have the vibe of the communications that you have described... .

 

FF

[snowglobe]

@formflier, the changes are undeniable, I am very proud of every self restraining attempt to lash back, for every insult I haven’t returned, every bait I let go of. Yet, this emotional self control and restrain also lowered any positive emotion out of our marriage. He doesn’t seek me emotionally or physically, it feels... .empty... on his part. His gaze doesn’t return emotionally charged longing, his replies and curt and concise, he prefers his own company to me or the kids. The facts are stubborn and aren’t in my favour- he comes home everyday. Yet, I can’t help but observe that he has no emotional investment in these relationships. My birthday is coming up, he purchased obscenely expensive jewelry in lei of it, yet, it’s not because he wants to make me happy or express his love. It’s his business card whenever he mingles in his business world, my gratitude is secondary to his social status. Many women would object to what I’m saying, he bought it for me, not anyone else, I should be great full and delighted. Great full I am, yet, I would much rather prefer a lovely day talking to him, spending time with him, talking to him, having him look at me, and see me, tell me that he loves me... .financial resources are a beautiful asset and way of obtaining certain goals and achieving relative freedom. It doesn’t buy happiness, we have to work on it within ourselves. His idea of happiness is to through a gift at me and expect it to fix any problems “you have”

[snowglobe]

Hey... .  

I know this is hard to talk about... .yet it is important that when we are communicating on here... .that there is clarity.

Was there anything sexual?

Was there anything romantic?

I definitely have the vibe of the communications that you have described... .

 

FF

There was definitely flirting on both parts, send me your picture and I will send you mine, what do you wish for/dream of?. (Emotional intimacy) you are such a handsome guy (he really is very handsome). The minute he gets this kind of flattery, he is sold. The npd in him is just as high as BPD. He frequently talks about being featured in news and media (wishful thinking for now), shameless self promotion and exaggeration on his achievements, net worth and social connection, name dropping and Bragging. That girl, she saw right through him, I’m fairly certain that there wasn’t anything sexual going on, she was overseas in another country. It was somewhat emotional affair he was carrying out while our son was 8 months old.

[formflier]

Please... .I'm not trying to badger you... this is critical to be clear about.

Was there anything romantic (which I would say is different that "flirty" going on?

Was there anything sexual going on?  

To be clear... .if you say "no... .nothing sexual was mentioned"... that does it for me... .same for romantic.

   

With these kinds of things... .it is so important to get to exactly what was actually said... .and put that side by side with how those words were interpreted... .and perhaps how those words were intended.

Said another way... .communicating about incredibly emotionally charged issues is hard... .yet it must be done to have a good chance to move forward.

 



FF

[formflier]

In fact... .if there is more you have to add about "flirty"... .please add.  I think I have a vibe.

What I'm seeing is a description of her "flirting" with him... and him being "friendly" in return.  I do see that you mention flirting on both parts... .what exactly did that read like from your husband?

Do I have that right?  (I get it... I may not... .clarity important)

FF

[snowglobe]

Please... .I'm not trying to badger you... this is critical to be clear about.

Was there anything romantic (which I would say is different that "flirty" going on?

Was there anything sexual going on?  

To be clear... .if you say "no... .nothing sexual was mentioned"... that does it for me... .same for romantic.

   

With these kinds of things... .it is so important to get to exactly what was actually said... .and put that side by side with how those words were interpreted... .and perhaps how those words were intended.

Said another way... .communicating about incredibly emotionally charged issues is hard... .yet it must be done to have a good chance to move forward.

 



FF

Not to my knowledge sexual, never read anything in that nature. Yes to romantic, “I missed talking to you tiday” “I missed you too, sorry had to deal with work related problems”. I managed to nip it in the butt, so to speak before it progressed into something more. On several occasions when his computer was open and she was whining for him, I wrote something along these lines: “ hello xwy, I’m Snowglobe wife, he isn’t available at the moment. Your correspondence with my husband is utterly inappropriate and unprofessional to say the least. He is married and has two children, but you already knew that. Due to your behaviour, I see no other option but to report your behaviour to my husband’s partners. Surely the won’t condone you using work time and chats on flirting and discussing nonsense, while distracting my husband from work”. After several of those her advances died out and she left my husband alone. Their correspondence changed to curt replied and professional ccing about client issues.

[snowglobe]

In fact... .if there is more you have to add about "flirty"... .please add.  I think I have a vibe.

What I'm seeing is a description of her "flirting" with him... and him being "friendly" in return.  I do see that you mention flirting on both parts... .what exactly did that read like from your husband?

Do I have that right?  (I get it... I may not... .clarity important)

FF

He was flirting back, undeniably, sending her personal pictures and sharing intimate parts of his day. I wasn’t feeling like working today because I was ... .you have beautiful smile (after she sent him a picture), I would love to come and see your country, let’s plan what I would visit (fantasy plannning)

[formflier]

Not to my knowledge sexual, never read anything in that nature. Yes to romantic, “I missed talking to you tiday” “I missed you too, sorry had to deal with work related problems”. 

OK... .so is there any other type of communication that you considered romantic?

Thanks for answering the sexual question.

Again... .I understand this stuff is hard to remember and work through.

Please think through the other question about "flirty".  Do you consider flirty and romantic different? 

If there are examples of flirty that you haven't shared... .please share so there is an accurate picture.

Am I correct that your husband and this lady never met in person?

FF

[formflier]

We are cross posting some... .I think if you look through the post above... about differences in romance and flirting... .and if they met in person... .I think I'll be done with my questions.

Again... thanks for info... .  

FF

[snowglobe]

@formflier,
You are absolutely correct about the “vibe”. Do you see it now that I don’t trust him being away alone? Every time I leave he behaves inappropriately. Like a stray dog he follows anyone who flatters him or makes him feel special. His connections are instantaneous and impulsive, there isn’t time given to build strong foundation. One minute he is infatuated and fully committed to the relationships to the point of it costing his family (talking about friendship and family of origin) another minute he is bored and rejecting the same people sending them into silent treatment. At risk of sounding vulgar, it’s like porn, sure he knows, in theory that it’s a paid act, yet, he doesn’t care and it takes care of some needs he has. Relationships are largely superficial, largely dependent on amount of flattery and validation he gets. The more he behaves inappropriately, and the more the other party validated his behaviour, the stronger the bond being forged

[snowglobe]

OK... .so is there any other type of communication that you considered romantic?

Thanks for answering the sexual question.

Again... .I understand this stuff is hard to remember and work through.

Please think through the other question about "flirty".  Do you consider flirty and romantic different? 

If there are examples of flirty that you haven't shared... .please share so there is an accurate picture.

Am I correct that your husband and this lady never met in person?

FF

She was a person working at one of his call centres in another location overseas. They never met in person, because he never travelled to her country.
The difference between flirty vs romantic for me is that romantic relations imply some level of emotional bond being established. Whereas flirting is more like resting the waters and seeing if that romantic bond can be established. To my knowledged it never moved to a romantic level, although it was plain as day that it was more then working conversations. I never seen him exchange personal information nor pictures with other female coworkers or being so concerned with other employees in the same office.

[formflier]

  I never seen him exchange personal information nor pictures with other female coworkers or being so concerned with other employees in the same office.

You know him best... .why do you think this is?

FF

[snowglobe]

I’m not sure if it would ever progress to be honest with you, when I saw her photos, she didn’t look “up to his standards”. She looked a little chubby and not all beautiful in his “model like” taste preferences. Although, human psyche is a complicated network, she must have met some of the needs he had at that time. If she lived in the proximity, I would have been more concerned

[snowglobe]

You know him best... .why do you think this is?

FF

Because they don’t approach him, she was. Anyone who seeks his company and attention usually gets in his good graces rather quickly. He is a bit awkward socially, but if he gets any female attention, he purks up rather quickly

[formflier]

  but if he gets any female attention, he purks up rather quickly

Does he reject male attention?

FF

[snowglobe]

Does he reject male attention?

FF

Not completely, but it’s not the same level of infatuation and instant intimacy. He also gets tired of “friendship” rather quickly. He seldomly reciprocated to any invites coming from male friends, unless it’s his foo, or he was antsy that day.