Why do I feel like an employee to uBPD H?

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

I guess this has to do with "walking on eggshells."

uBPD/uNPD H often has me on edge.  He is a retired military man and seems to think I am his subordinate.

Over the more than 20 years of marriage to H, I have been emotionally beaten down, called names, raged at, watched furniture upended, etc. that I have finally found myself depressed.  This has become my normal.  

I work from home and have a private business (co-own) that is taking a long time legally restructuring.  H has made no secret that he wants it to hurry up so he can have access to my income (he calls it "ours".)  He wants to buy another house in another state and he is bullying me into using a greater portion of my income to buy the house.  I was given no input in this decision to move nor consent to use income from the business.

When H comes home from his job, I hear the door and "jump," going into high alert.  I feel my nerves on end.  I don't know if he had a good day or a bad one, or if he will be Jekyll or Hyde.  He can split in seconds.  After I have cooked a nice meal, he will immediately launch into an interrogation on how the restructuring is going and when "I" (that is, "he" can have access to more funds for "our" plans.

I feel like I am just a cash-cow.  His real loves are this children from his first marriage.  Their lives and the grandchildren make his face glow with a the look of a man entranced.  I, on the other hand, am the brunt of his scowls and rages.  I regularly get divorce threats, insults and withholding of affection (he leaves our bedroom and sleeps on the couch), among other BPD tactics.  

I read somewhere that abusive people believe their spouses "owe" them.  That seems to be the case here.  I am expected to be the bottom of H's emotional priorities and yet he wants to use my income to fund his dreams and plans for his children.

This is so much like my FIL.  FIL used all his disposable income during his marriage to MIL on his hobbies.  At the end of her life, MIL had nothing to show for it.  No jewellery or things for herself bought by her uNPD H.  What a shame. When she left this world, wouldn't it have been nice for her to have some nice things to leave for her granddaughters and grand DILs.  

So when H comes home, my heart jumps as if I should be "doing work" of some kind.  Sometimes I am so depressed that I hardly feel like getting out of bed in the morning.  

Does anyone else feel this way with a BPD partner?

[AskingWhy]

I guess this has to do with "walking on eggshells."

uBPD/uNPD H often has me on edge.  He is a retired military man and seems to think I am his subordinate.

Over the more than 20 years of marriage to H, I have been emotionally beaten down, called names, raged at, watched furniture upended, etc. that I have finally found myself depressed.  This has become my normal.  

I work from home and have a private business (co-own) that is taking a long time legally restructuring.  H has made no secret that he wants it to hurry up so he can have access to my income (he calls it "ours".)  He wants to buy another house in another state and he is bullying me into using a greater portion of my income to buy the house.  I was given no input in this decision to move nor consent to use income from the business.

When H comes home from his job, I hear the door and "jump," going into high alert.  I feel my nerves on end.  I don't know if he had a good day or a bad one, or if he will be Jekyll or Hyde.  He can split in seconds.  After I have cooked a nice meal, he will immediately launch into an interrogation on how the restructuring is going and when "I" (that is, "he" can have access to more funds for "our" plans.

I feel like I am just a cash-cow.  His real loves are this children from his first marriage.  Their lives and the grandchildren make his face glow with a the look of a man entranced.  I, on the other hand, am the brunt of his scowls and rages.  I regularly get divorce threats, insults and withholding of affection (he leaves our bedroom and sleeps on the couch), among other BPD tactics.  

I read somewhere that abusive people believe their spouses "owe" them.  That seems to be the case here.  I am expected to be the bottom of H's emotional priorities and yet he wants to use my income to fund his dreams and plans for his children.

This is so much like my FIL.  FIL used all his disposable income during his marriage to MIL on his hobbies.  At the end of her life, MIL had nothing to show for it.  No jewellery or things for herself bought by her uNPD H.  What a shame. When she left this world, wouldn't it have been nice for her to have some nice things to leave for her granddaughters and grand DILs.  

So when H comes home, my heart jumps as if I should be "doing work" of some kind.  Sometimes I am so depressed that I hardly feel like getting out of bed in the morning.  

Does anyone else feel this way with a BPD partner?

[Speck]

Hello, AskingWhy:

Does anyone else feel this way with a BPD partner?

Absolutely. You are most certainly walking on eggshells. I am so sorry that your daily life consists of this, as it's not a healthy state of being. What do you think that you can do that will make the situation better for yourself?


-Speck

[Red5]

I guess this has to do with "walking on eggshells."

uBPD/uNPD H often has me on edge.  He is a retired military man and seems to think I am his subordinate.

When H comes home from his job, I hear the door and "jump," going into high alert.  I feel my nerves on end.  

I don't know if he had a good day or a bad one, or if he will be Jekyll or Hyde.  He can split in seconds.  

After I have cooked a nice meal, he will immediately launch into an interrogation on how the restructuring is going and when "I" (that is, "he" can have access to more funds for "our" plans.

I read somewhere that abusive people believe their spouses "owe" them.  

This is so much like my FIL.  FIL used all his disposable income during his marriage to MIL on his hobbies.  At the end of her life, MIL had nothing to show for it.  

So when H comes home, my heart jumps as if I should be "doing work" of some kind.  

Afternoon AskingWhy,

*I guess this has to do with "walking on eggshells."
Over the last few months/maybe inside a year now, I have started to “stop” doing this (trying), I am now in a place to where I do not even try to “not” trigger anymore, as in I do not “rescue” anymore, I do still edit most all my thoughts, and speech however,

*uBPD/uNPD H often has me on edge.  He is a retired military man and seems to think I am his subordinate.
My u/BPDw most times than not will try to “control” me, as would an older sibling sister, I think this is resultant from her childhood & growing up with two older sisters, and a BPD mum et’ all… and ponder this (?), I was a Master Sergeant in the Marine Corps, over twenty six years I spent in the Marines… and I am treated as the inexperienced, and idle minded subordinate, an accident prone child, an unruly teenager  !

*When H comes home from his job, I hear the door and "jump," going into high alert.  I feel my nerves on end. 
Me2… Wow I certainly do this as well… Like I am about to get “caught in the act of xxx”… and WHY !… is this true “cptsd”… Yeah, I can too feel my heart jump, and I think oh boy, “she’s HOME!”… Battle stations everyone, hide whatever you were doing, & LOOK BUSY !… No way to live ; (

*I don't know if he had a good day or a bad one, or if he will be Jekyll or Hyde.  He can split in seconds.
 Also can concur here as well… Like Forest Gump’s Mum said about the box of chocolates, “never know what you’re gonna get”.

*After I have cooked a nice meal, he will immediately launch into an interrogation on how the restructuring is going and when "I" (that is, "he" can have access to more funds for "our" plans.
Yes, another “bad area”… u/BPDw just loves to bring it ALL up over a meal, I really hate this behavior… meal time, supper time has always been sacred to me, a “nice” time, time to relax, a time to unwind, and be with your most loved ones, BUT NO !… and I wonder WHY I have acid reflux, and recurrent heartburn… AND high blood pressure, ugh,

*I read somewhere that abusive people believe their spouses "owe" them.
This is true, yes, very true… I think this may be a factor in most any disordered persons thinking… the “world” owes me xxx & x, and also a good healthy (not!) dose of paranoia as well… double ugh,

*This is so much like my FIL.  FIL used all his disposable income during his marriage to MIL on his hobbies.  At the end of her life, MIL had nothing to show for it.
My u/BPDw often describes her own foo/father (now deceased) this way, as in “dad was selfish”… hmmm ?

*So when H comes home, my heart jumps as if I should be "doing work" of some kind.
I remember getting the “what did you do today” grilling when she got home from her work/job/career, before I went back to work after I retired from the service, about a fourteen month period… I used to think to myself, what the hell (?), so I started to make lists, not to appease her, but to mock her, I made a big deal about it, which never worked out the way I expected (), only resultant in more raging... you’d have thought I was the laziest retired Marine you’d ever scene… like I were a kid or something, Good Grief (!) that used to grind my gears so bad,

Hang in there AskingWhy

Red5

[formflier]

What happens if you let him know (about just about any topic) "That doesn't work for me." and then add "perhaps we can work out a compromise"

What kind of response do you get?

Has the behavior you described been going on for most of the 20 years of marriage?

FF

[MrRight]

Does anyone else feel this way with a BPD partner?

You are not alone.

I also jump up when I see my wife coming up the drive and walking to open the door. I make sure first that I have closed any windows on my PC that would cause a row if found out - like BPD family for example at one extreme - and a news website at the other. She doesnt like me looking at the news - I should be working 100% of the time.

Then I am standing to attention when she comes through the door waiting for orders.

Yes - you are indeed not alone.

[formflier]

Mr Right,

I would only go to BPD family using Chrome in the incognito mode.

cntrl shift N with chrome.

Your privacy is important for stability in BPDish relationships.

FF

[AskingWhy]

Thank you, Speck, Red5, FF and MrRight.

What happens if you let him know (about just about any topic) "That doesn't work for me." and then add "perhaps we can work out a compromise"

What kind of response do you get?

Has the behavior you described been going on for most of the 20 years of marriage?

FF

To be honest, uBPD H would fly into a rage and punch a hole in the wall.  Such discussions or any mention of compromise, as he sees it, are not for the man in charge.

The behaviour has been going on for the last 10 years of the marriage.  I am in counseling and it helps a lot.

H is just a spoiled brat, and his uNPD F made him that way, ironically, by favouring his young brother over him.    H was always trying to get approval from his father his entire adult life.  H had a very successful career in the military and retired, and now has a second career. His brother is a drug-addicted, alcoholic loser.  The irony.

In his eyes, H "owns" me.  This is very common in BPD with NPD elements.  H disliked me enjoying myself because he thinks I should always be "on the clock" for him.  He rages if dinner is not ready when he gets home, and yet says, "I am having a cocktail.  I had a rough day."  And then dinner gets cold.  

l am getting sick of snapping to H's commands.  I am glad I have removed myself from caring about the ordering about, emotional abuse and rages.  I see him for the pathetic man-child he is inside.

[formflier]

l am getting sick of snapping to H's commands.  

So... .what is YOUR plan to stop?  I would suggest having ONE proactive discussion with him about it not working anymore... .and you will be expecting something different.  Then stick to it.

If he "bullies" you back to original behavior... .that is worse than never changing... .


FF

[MrRight]

Mr Right,

I would only go to BPD family using Chrome in the incognito mode.

cntrl shift N with chrome.

Your privacy is important for stability in BPDish relationships.

FF

Thanks - I already do that for BPD family - and everything else I dont want her to see.
sadly - incognito windows stay open if you FORGET to close them! It can happen! and did happen two years ago when I left a firefox private window open - she found it - a forum (not BPD family) with me signed in - it created a lot of trouble for me.
It is a shame there is no option for incognito to close down all open windows after 10 minutes of inactivity.

I also found out that if you have a google account open - it saves all your you tube views if you happen to be signed into you tube even in private mode - google will save all your you tube views. that got me into trouble as well as she snoops in my computer now and again. I have now changed all my google privacy settings and erased all my you tube history (its only me watching old pop videos from the 70s but it threw her into a rage)

[MrRight]

Thank you, Speck, Red5, FF and MrRight.

To be honest, uBPD H would fly into a rage and punch a hole in the wall.  Such discussions or any mention of compromise, as he sees it, are not for the man in charge.

The behaviour has been going on for the last 10 years of the marriage.  I am in counseling and it helps a lot.

H is just a spoiled brat, and his uNPD F made him that way, ironically, by favouring his young brother over him.   H was always trying to get approval from his father his entire adult life.  H had a very successful career in the military and retired, and now has a second career. His brother is a drug-addicted, alcoholic loser.  The irony.

In his eyes, H "owns" me.  This is very common in BPD with NPD elements.  H disliked me enjoying myself because he thinks I should always be "on the clock" for him.  He rages if dinner is not ready when he gets home, and yet says, "I am having a cocktail.  I had a rough day."  And then dinner gets cold.  

l am getting sick of snapping to H's commands.  I am glad I have removed myself from caring about the ordering about, emotional abuse and rages.  I see him for the pathetic man-child he is inside.

I wonder how common a trigger this is for what we nons are experiencing.

My wife has always been jealous of her younger sister (7 years younger) as young sis was always the pretty one - the darling of the family. How her father and mother now treat her - every word - has disproportionate importance attached. The rage she feels inside at this invalidation as a child and adult is directed at me. I am the one now she needs validation from - as she wont get it from those she really needs it from.

I suspect he has marginalised all your relatives too. I havent seen either of my parents in years. I am quite certain my wife will be quite happy for me to go on not communicating with them - and one day they will be dead and she wont lose any sleep over that. It will be one less threat.

I have a plan in hand though - my son starts at university this year, finally. I have waited 17 years. It's not easy coming on this board and reading about people who are in the situation I was 15 years ago - with a 2 y/o child and raging adult child to cope with - what a long journey they have ahead of them.

But back to your case - 20 years! Life is too precious to waste like this. I think you need some kind of plan - either a strategy to cope with your life and improve it - or an exit plan, like me. I have given up on the improvement strategy - I have validated and tried to establish boundaries etc - but like your H - she will punch a hole in the wall too, or me - if I start explaining my feelings.

[formflier]

Even better... .get yourself a chromebook.

Anytime you need to get up... even for a quick glass of water.  ctrl shif L.  The chromebook is locked.

Encryption is built in... .

Only your gmail password gets you in.  I have a very complicated password.

FF

[MrRight]

Even better... .get yourself a chromebook.

Anytime you need to get up... even for a quick glass of water.  ctrl shif L.  The chromebook is locked.

Encryption is built in... .

Only your gmail password gets you in.  I have a very complicated password.

FF

If I had a safe installed in the house she would insist on having a key.

[formflier]

If I had a safe installed in the house she would insist on having a key.

right... .and that's ok.  She can insist all she wants... .she can get her own safe... her own key.

Here is the thing about boundaries... .she doesn't get a vote... .she has a request.  You can say yes... or no.

Note:  I realize she will flip out... that's her deal.  Guess what... you have a choice too. 

FF

[Red5]

If I had a safe installed in the house she would insist on having a key.

Mr. Right,

LoL !... .I can certainly relate to that one, .oh' yes I can.

So internet usage, I have a pretty strict protocol where this is concerned,
*Settings, are all set to NOT retain, record, or to save.
*I "bleach" everything when I am done, erase ALL history hourly/daily.
*OPSEC OPSEC OPSEC OPSEC
*I have secret accounts that are linked to the websites I visit, ie' BPDfam... .I keep my "general" email accounts separate and disconnected from my "underground" accounts.
*And then... .this is what I do, after I "kill" my history, and internet trail, I may then randomly go to a myriad of other websites over and over, and create a "false" - "fake" history ()... .to throw her of my trail should she try to audit my activity... .as mine (u/BPDw) will also snoop over the history.
*Devices, .I do limit the time I spend to only certain devices, and then ENSURE that I destroy all traces of my activity.
*Cookies KILL.
*History KILL.
*Logout OFTEN, and ALWAYS.
*"Would you like the computer to remember your login"... .NO NO NO NO (KILL)!
*But the most useful tactic I use is the old "ruse within a ruse within a ruse" so to speak... .ie' create endless trails of random activity for her to "look at", as she then this appeases her need to snoop... .so far so good.

Crazy stuff, .

She bought me an Ipad Christmas before last, but she does use it more than I do, and I NEVER use it to come here, or do any research on any subject that is TOP SECRET.

Pretty much work computer (as in now), and my phone, that's it.

Even If I bought my own device, she would be giving me the "stare"... .this is pbd paranoia you see... .best not to feed it.

The "home computer" is far too compromised, as is the Ipad... .off limits for any BPD (et' all) research !

Good luck and stay safe and protected on the internet.

Red5

[Red5]

To be honest, uBPD H would fly into a rage and punch a hole in the wall.  Such discussions or any mention of compromise, as he sees it, are not for the man in charge.

The behaviour has been going on for the last 10 years of the marriage.  I am in counseling and it helps a lot.

H is just a spoiled brat, and his uNPD F made him that way, ironically, by favouring his young brother over him.    H was always trying to get approval from his father his entire adult life.  H had a very successful career in the military and retired, and now has a second career. His brother is a drug-addicted, alcoholic loser.  The irony.

In his eyes, H "owns" me.  This is very common in BPD with NPD elements.  H disliked me enjoying myself because he thinks I should always be "on the clock" for him.  He rages if dinner is not ready when he gets home, and yet says, "I am having a cocktail.  I had a rough day."  And then dinner gets cold.  

l am getting sick of snapping to H's commands.  I am glad I have removed myself from caring about the ordering about, emotional abuse and rages.  I see him for the pathetic man-child he is inside.

AskingWhy, I am very sorry that you have to endure this; it is certainly no way to have to live, and for twenty years.

Can I ask a question, when was it, along the timeline of twenty years, did you become aware of, or suspected BPD, or npd, or both in regards to your H’s behaviors?, and how has it effected your ability to cope in retrospect?

What you wrote about your H’s brother… believe it or not I have seen this many times during my time in the service, the scenario you describe, I observed many times over… say three siblings, boy-boy-girl… parent(s) overly favors the first boy, and then “skips” over the second boy, and favors the girl… this goes on over the entire childhood, teenager time frame, # 2 son then joins the service to “be part of something bigger than him”… or to escape, and or to prove to dad (maybe) that he is “on the ball”… and the over privileged #1 son can’t get off the apron strings and what we may see is a “failure to launch scenario”… this results in a crash of some sort later on in #1’s life, I could name you about five instance I observed right now where this rings true… wow eh’

I am not the best at giving advice, but I can offer maybe what I might try to do, as every relationship dynamic is always very different.

I use to “run & jump” as my u/BPDw dictated, anything to “appease her”… I was always on “punishment” it seemed… but one day, I decided enough was enough, and I stood up to her a little bit one day, and a little bit more the next day… so forth and so on, and she did get mad (rage)… but I started doing it more and more, ie’ I started setting boundaries…

*I am no longer going to tolerate the way you talk to me,
*I am no longer going to let you tell me what to do,
*If you want it done that way, then you will have to do it yourself,
*No, I will no longer be doing xy, or z until you stop this behavior;… period,
*No, if that’s the way you feel about it then go by yourself,
*I told you once, and once is enough, this conversation is over, I will not be treated like this, or spoken to in this manner anymore,
*Excuse me, please do not destroy or in any way further damage things in our home, I will not tolerate this kind of behavior any longer,
*I am very sorry you feel this way, I can see that you are very angry, but you are going to have to get control over your temper, because I have reached my limit of tolerance with your current behavior,
*No, I do NOT want to discuss this with you any longer right now, I am tired, and I am going to take a nap,
*If you continue to not appreciate the things I do for you, then I am going to stop doing them, you will have to do these things for yourself from now on,

As you wrote, “I see him for the pathetic man-child he is inside”… so you may just have to interact with him as if he were a child for a while, you have to interact from a point of strength (boundaries), and you will have to be the “dominant parent”… as this may be all he understands (language).

I stopped the one sided interactions (for now), it took me a long time, and she; my u/BPDw still slips her rails sometimes, but it has gotten somewhat better (?), when she does act out, even when it bothers me, even saddens me, or upsets me, I do not show it (gray rock), I “flip” into “me mode”… as I can take care of myself, and I do not depend on u’BPDw for any kind of emotional support, that ended long ago, maybe was never there to begin with.

Hang in there AskyWhy, we are here listening,

Red5

[AskingWhy]

I appreciate the reading and recommendations.

@Red5, thank you for the comments.  

My making boundaries don't work as H will come up with new means of trying to get his entitlement.

Again, a spoiled brat.  :)eep inside, he is as insecure as they come in spite of his exemplary professional successes.

My main strategy is to disengage.  If he threatens divorce, I tell him to go ahead and my attorney will reply to his.  If he threatens to punch a hole in the wall, I point to which one does not have  a hole and could use one.  I don't do it with sarcasm, but matter-of-factly.  I don't get emotional and go on with whatever I was doing or start doing something else--a task, reading or attending to some other business.

H is into punitive measures when he is trying to punish me.  At first, I would be distraught and comply, but now I ignore him.  For us, a walk in the park is never just that--a walk in the park.  We went for a walk in a park and H deliberately walked in front of me, ignoring my attempts at conversation.  Inside I was laughing at him!  A pouty child not getting his way!  In the past, I was horribly hurt at the emotional punishment, but now I can laugh! How emancipating!

Not engaging is the way one deals with a spoiled, pouty brat, and that is exactly the way I deal with H. It has taken me years, and therapy, to get to this place, but now I feel empowered.   My lack of engaging in the drama has helped as overall H has improved.  Improved but still dysregulates on occasion.

@MrRight, birth order is very relevant to the development of personality.  With pwBPD, the romantic partners are usually nons/codependent enablers or pwNPD.  In the case of H, his x W is very NPD; I am the non/codependent.  I also see NPD and BPD behaviour in all of his children:  suicide attempts, substance addictions, bad life choices.  I am very much aware of the pathology of my husband's actions toward me.  

I am at the point of having a good set of rules to go by in interacting with H, and divorce seems much more positive a step than ever before.  It's a good feeling.

[formflier]

My making boundaries don't work as H will come up with new means of trying to get his entitlement.

 

https://bpdfamily.com/content/setting-boundaries

I'll be frank.  It's not your hubby... it's likely bad boundary selection or enforcment.

The picture is that you set a boundary.  You husband can do what he wants... .smashing against that boundary time after time, until he gets tired of it.  (obviously a big picture brush)

Can you walk me through what he does, then the boundary you set, and how get "gets around it".

I could be wrong... .but I doubt it.

Boundaries are/were my  #1 tool in improving my relationship.  There are no boundaries I am aware of that work and are "pleasing" to a pwBPD... .many people get that confused.

FF

[AskingWhy]

https://bpdfamily.com/content/setting-boundaries

I'll be frank.  It's not your hubby... it's likely bad boundary selection or enforcment.

The picture is that you set a boundary.  You husband can do what he wants... .smashing against that boundary time after time, until he gets tired of it.  (obviously a big picture brush)

Can you walk me through what he does, then the boundary you set, and how get "gets around it".

I could be wrong... .but I doubt it.

Boundaries are/were my  #1 tool in improving my relationship.  There are no boundaries I am aware of that work and are "pleasing" to a pwBPD... .many people get that confused.

FF

Thank you, FF.  My H is a highly-trained person in a technical field and people's lives depend on what he does.  On the other hand, he is an idiot in other matters. For instance, our cat got scratched on the skin on his eyelid and H suggested using hydrogen peroxide on it.  That is utter craziness! Peroxide in the eye itself if a medical emergency!  I wonder how he managed to get visitation with his human children with the lack of knowledge of health.  He does not have what I would call common sense.  Just as BPDs have the emotions of children, it's like he is also a child in practical matters.  He never had to raise infants or children day to day as his X W had full custody; he only had children for a few weeks out of the year.  (For the record, she had an affair while he was overseas in the military, then divorced her husband to marry her lover.  I think a lot of rage H feels is really projecting his rage toward her.  I am even the same race as X W.  Talk about a real repetition compulsion.)

But I digress.   I want to learn more about boundaries.  When H is mad at me for whatever reason, he is abusive:  blackmailing, withholding affection, and in the past, name-calling. 

Yesterday, H dysregulated after coming home from work.  Within minutes, he was screaming and raging how much he hated our marriage and hated life with me.  This was his inferring he wanted a divorce.  (I get regular divorce threats when H splits.)  I did not engage or rage back, but instead calmly continued to prepare dinner.  I told him to put a hole in the wall, and he said he wanted to.   I said that was his prerogative.  I did not try to soothe him or validate his anger and raging at me.   My therapist recognized the tactic I was using.  I continued to work about the kitchen and prepare a meal.  He said he would make his own dinner, and I said that was fine with me.  I did not even turn to look at him and continued to cook dinner.  About 30 minutes later, H calmed down from his tantrum.  It's like dealing with toddler or teenager.

I don't give in to the drama that BPDs and NPDs crave.  I was prepared for him to leave the house with a slam of the door, as he did in the past, and go eat somewhere at a restaurant.

[MrRight]

Asking Why

you have mentioned withholding of affection.

given his appalling treatment of you - is this something you really need from him? How can you rationalise wanting affection from someone who routinely abuses you?

[StormySkies]

Thank you, Speck, Red5, FF and MrRight.

To be honest, uBPD H would fly into a rage and punch a hole in the wall.  Such discussions or any mention of compromise, as he sees it, are not for the man in charge.

The behaviour has been going on for the last 10 years of the marriage.  I am in counseling and it helps a lot.

H is just a spoiled brat, and his uNPD F made him that way, ironically, by favouring his young brother over him.    H was always trying to get approval from his father his entire adult life.  H had a very successful career in the military and retired, and now has a second career. His brother is a drug-addicted, alcoholic loser.  The irony.

In his eyes, H "owns" me.  This is very common in BPD with NPD elements.  H disliked me enjoying myself because he thinks I should always be "on the clock" for him.  He rages if dinner is not ready when he gets home, and yet says, "I am having a cocktail.  I had a rough day."  And then dinner gets cold.  

l am getting sick of snapping to H's commands.  I am glad I have removed myself from caring about the ordering about, emotional abuse and rages.  I see him for the pathetic man-child he is inside.

Hi,  I identify ALOT with your post.  My H is also very successful after a military career.    We have been fighting alot about a rental property we own out-of-state.   Recently - he took 10K of our cash savings and bought himself a boat,  then decided he needed a bigger boat - and spent the rest of everything we had saved buying himself a much bigger nicer boat.   I'm terrified what would happen if we sold the rental... .

I also "jump" the minute I heard the garage door going up.  Lately , I've been doing this thing where I glance at the clock and time how long before he is cursing at me or about something.   Average is about 9 mins. 

My H uses the dinner thing to control as well.   A few weeks ago,  I bought some chicken wings (butcher was clearancing them out while I was there) and knowing he frequently likes to go out for Hot Wings spent a lot of time cooking a special Mahogany Glaze with a special sauce.   He then raged at me that I was thinking about "someone else" because he know he ONLY eats boneless wings.    It's something he does quite a bit really - insists I make dinner and then when I've spent time cooking, have a sink full of dirty dishes, table set and food plated - refuses to eat.   So my solution is - I've been making everything in the crock pot.   If he eats, fine.  If he comes in hours after he said he would - fine, it's still hot and ready.   If he refuses to eat it - fine,  goes into frig/freezer for another day.   

[formflier]

But I digress.   I want to learn more about boundaries.  When H is mad at me for whatever reason, he is abusive:  blackmailing, withholding affection, and in the past, name-calling. 

Boundaries are my number 1 tool that helped me stabilize my relationship.  Once you understand them better it's kind of a way of thinking.

Yesterday, H dysregulated after coming home from work.  Within minutes, he was screaming and raging how much he hated our marriage and hated life with me. 

So... do you value what your ears listen to?  You DON'T control what comes out of your hubbies mouth... but you DO control what goes into your ears!

Do you see the difference.  You own your ears and have 100% vote and control over that.  No control over his mouth.  So... instead of trying to convince him to say something else... .take your ears to another location.

I told him to put a hole in the wall, and he said he wanted to.   I said that was his prerogative. 

Hmm... .offhand, I would not suggest further destruction or dysfunctional coping... .or ask him if he "feels" like it.

To me... seems like dangerous road to go down.

I did not try to soothe him or validate his anger and raging at me. 
 

Once dysregulation has really started... .it's usually not effective.

Somtimes you can "turn" them, when you see they are having a hard time coping.  That's usually before the yelling starts.

I don't give in to the drama that BPDs and NPDs crave. 

That is good... .I wonder if it was better if you "valued" your ears enough to go somewhere else... so they wouldn't be aware.

Thoughts?

FF

[Red5]

Boundaries are my number 1 tool that helped me stabilize my relationship.  Once you understand them better it's kind of a way of thinking.

So... do you value what your ears listen to?  You DON'T control what comes out of your hubbies mouth... but you DO control what goes into your ears!

Do you see the difference.  You own your ears and have 100% vote and control over that.  No control over his mouth.  So... instead of trying to convince him to say something else... .take your ears to another location.

Once dysregulation has really started... .it's usually not effective.

Somtimes you can "turn" them, when you see they are having a hard time coping.  That's usually before the yelling starts.

FF makes some very excellent points above,

Boundaries are a very effective tool in ensuring a measure of control within the uncontrolled, and many time tumultuous world of a relationship with pw/BPD.

It does not happen overnight, or even within a short span of time, no; this will take a while to implement, learn, and then be able to ensure the sustainment of said boundaries.

Boundaries… I was thinking about this the other day, yes thinking;… a very dangerous pastime for Red5 to even be engaging in (AM humor)… our pw/BPD, do they have boundaries, rules (rules of engagement ROE)… oh YES they do, I think that our pw/BPD very well does expects us, the non in the relationship; to “tow the line”, to put up with, any/all, and every type of endless degree of dysregulative behaviors et’ all!

Yes they do !

Oh yes, ever try to convince (JADE) your pw/ BPD to even see things differently, to “come on down outa that tree”… to stop pointing their finger in your face, to stop poking you in the chest with their un-ending blather (BS), ever attempt to get pw/BPD to reason with you, to come on over to “your way of practical thinking”… uh’ NO! … is this an (identifiable) implacable, indomitable, indefatigable series of  boundaries for the pw/BPD, I think it is, it is their self-protect mode, this dysfunctional series of boundaries that the pw/BPD maintains unrelentingly… so good luck getting through all that, it is all wired up, and ready, the software is loaded, and will be activated in a second should the fragility of the pw/BPD be threatened, or else questioned… boundary boundary boundary… like the guard shack at check point charlie, come to close, and you’ll get it!

Ok, back to our boundaries… I will add learned behaviors now, as in… once the pw/BPD comes to the realization and even stark understanding; that you (us) the non will NOT put up with the verbal, or else even physical abuse, destructive behaviors any longer, then you have indeed accomplished something(?), I won’t call it controlling, but there are certain lines, that over time, can be taught, by the non, to the pw/BPD, to NOT cross; or there will be consequences, sanctions, removal of identifiable “privileges/favors/mutual-respect” within the relationship.

Scenario:… BPD hubbie or wife, or sig-other comes home, they have had a bad day, and they immediately start in on the non, over something trivial; supper is not ready; you’ve ruined my life, I want a divorce?… what does the non do, well you reinforce that boundary, (insert voice of non here)… “well, hello to you TOO dear, well now, I can see you have had a bad day, and I am indeed very sorry about that, but as you were well made aware of some time ago now, I am no longer going to put up with your destructive bad attitude, or blame, or ____ in my general direction, aimed at me, so as we have been through this before, .I am NOT going to discuss further with you, .SO!, that said… either YOU turnaround and go back to work, or else just go somewhere else, .and AWAY from me, .or I will have NO choice at this point; but to leave until you calm yourself down, as you can see; supper is on the stove, now, since you won’t leave, I am now going to take son-daughter-dog and I am going to leave for a while, see you later, bye-bye for now, and one more administrative detail, be sure to put your glass, fork, and dish into the dishwasher, .and one more thing dear, for the rest of this week, if you want to have supper when you get home, you will be making it for yourself, as I am now done doing this for you for a while."

And then leave, go out and get some good Italian (dinner).

Who remembers the old meme’s… “talk to the hand”… “ok, you are about to be yelling at a dial tone”… “ok, that was just about one too many, thank you for playing, good-bye now”… so forth and so on.

Yes, as soon as pw/BPD smashes up against your SET boundary, after the suitable and mutually respectable warning was given, then they will have to learn that you (we) are not going to put up with their behaviors anymore, “we” are going to leave, we are going somewhere else, out of earshot, cell phone set to stun… we are not going to “listen” anymore, they may as well be yelling at a tree… or the wall, or anything other than us.

Leave them all alone with their bravo sierra… for a spell (time), .and if they do it again, then reinforce again, and again... .wash rinse and repeat, sooner or later they will get the message... .muscle memory,

It will take a while for this to “set in”, but it can be done, and once you get there, a lot of the breeches in decorum will stop, there will still be a few, but it will get better… this has worked for me.

Its the old child throwing a tantrum verses the adult in the grocery store thing... ."are ya' done yet sweet pea"?

Ask yourself, would pw/BPD go up to an authority figure, say a Rhode Island State Trooper and poke him in the chest, and start yelling at him about why he does not have supper ready, and he (RIHP) has ruined pw/BPD’s life, and now pw/BPD wants a divorce… oh' H3LL no!… pw/BPD would be soon talking to themselves in the back of a cruiser, and on their way to the county lock-up… see, a SET boundary, enforced & consequences.

Said another way, .ok yoohoo, seeing as how you ain't getting the message, you'll be cooking up your own chow for while there partner !

As far as 'turning' the pw/BPD before the dryregulation begins, that’s a “sweet spot”… and it takes months, even years of practice to be able to ascertain this fleeting moment of chance, its only there for a short moment, and you have to really be on your game to be able to do this, to 'turn', to save the moment, to re-direct successfully… I am just now getting there myself(?), it’s like mixing rocket fuel, you have to be very very careful when attempting this emotional, verbal, psychological maneuver with pw/BPD, yes;… be very careful, sometimes it just may blow up in your face, but sometimes, .you may just get it right, and then the “resultant” is a few hours, days, or even weeks of peace with your pw/BPD.

Good Luck Asking Why!

P.S. Not to insert politics, but the former first lady whom passed away a few days ago, was referred to by one of her sons; as the “enforcer”… hmmm ?

[12years]

I haven't been on in awhile, but, I can relate to "jumping" when your BPD comes in the door or when you know they will be home and you are on your way home, the level of anxiety escalates.  From that moment on of their or your arrival, every action, word, etc. seems to be magnified and if you ever so slightly are in a bad mood or not receptive or actually make a comment that isn't positive it turns into an argument? Though it may not be about them? The energy level is negative and crackling! It's hard to settle down at night nevermind during the day, there is a buzz about the house that all can feel. Do you feel your BPD has to have this argument or they can't move on? You stop the argument as best you can, but, sometimes it just escalates. Then if you talk about the argument a day later or even a few days later, it's not remembered at all by the BPD! That's why you feel on high alert. It's like being blindfolded or complete darkness and someone is throwing punches at you, you don't know when the next one will come. It takes so much energy to be on alert that when the BPD is at work or not home or on a trip, you have a major decompression period that you become listless.

Less words the better, try not to trigger, but, sometimes it's hard as you get mad this person is ruining your life and making you uncomfortable in your own home.

I set boundaries and expectations and to talk about plans up front, do as many things out of the house when the BPD is there, but, I still can't avoid the arguments that crop up every few week! Because when talked about later, they are forgotten and it's a blame game because "you know what you did" to cause the argument!

I also go out with friends by myself and take the kids to church. I have also taken to not going on family trips and outings if possible.

It's a very hard way to live. And I am working hard on extracting myself from the situation, but it's hard if there's history, children and finances involved. But, I think you will come to a point where enough is enough. Avoiding the 200 lb. elephant in your life can only go on for so long.

So keep working on helping yourself and well wishes.

--12 years

[AskingWhy]

FF, Red5 and 12years, thank you.

I agree that uBPD H is just like a toddler.  I have observed that refusing to engage means the episodes of splitting are shorter.  H will rage and threaten for about 30 minutes to an hour, and then start "cooling off."  He is usually better within a day, usually after a period of giving me the silent treatment, pouting and slamming doors.  My refusing to engage is not responding to his threats to break things or file for divorce, or refusing to help me do something I need to do.

What Red5 suggests is exactly what I do.  I "take a breather," sometimes without even leaving the house.  I react minimally to whatever H says.  I pull back.  I do chores and work in the garden.  This removes me from being a target for H to fire verbal volleys at me.

12years, I agree with being on edge and jumping when the pwBPD comes home.  I can't be sure just what kind of mood H will be in.  If he talked to his adult children on the phone, then he will be in near-euphoria with a giddy smile on his face.  If he is hungry, he will be grumpy as a hungry, raging infant.  I immediately go on alert.  Truly walking on eggshells!

I also agree that my investment in the marriage is dying by degrees.  I have to try over and over again just to gain peace, and to anticipate when H will explode over something trival.

I suspect, as 12years said, that one day I will wake up and not care to be in the marriage any more.  Then I will call my attorney and have H served.  He will have gotten what he talked about and threatened for so many countless times in the marriage.  As they say, be careful what you wish for.

[12years]

Hi! I think my post was not to helpful in your thread. I missed the last section. I apologize.
I did enjoy reading you are learning to deal with your H's anger. Have you suggested therapy for him? Or both of you?

[12years]

Asking Why,
I think you were writing when I was... .I am glad you got some of my points. I have encouraged my H to go in therapy and he seems calmer after going but its constant reminders or asking when are you going again? He should really be going once a week. But he only decided to go because he was just about to lose everything. His "perfect" life from the outside. I basically strongly recommended he go to therapy because I was done with interacting, going on trips, and especially the relationship. But he really waited until the very end of years of asking him to go or for years being his therapist. I can't do that anymore! Because really, no one knows what happens behind closed doors! Or in someone else's marriage! Outsiders can't see how he treats you at home! They almost can't believe it!

We also went to marriage therapy but he was so angry or on "good behavior" he wasn't really trying. It was a psychological experiment!

I am giving it the absolute last chance and going again to a different therapist with him. But, I pretty much know it won't work. I have really had enough but I don't have my own income or way to extract myself and I was hoping for the sake of the kids it would get better. But, its not, it's been 2 years of really trying on my part. I am working on getting employment and then I think things will fall in place and much like you, I am afraid of what I wish for, but, those divorce papers are not far away. Then of course I will still have to deal with him as we have small children together. I am glad to hear you go to a therapist. I have been going 3 years and it's really opened my eyes.

If you could extract yourself, if you have income and a place to go, would you consider this? Do you have children at home? That I know makes a huge difference. That is the largest part of why I am here --for now.

Please keep us posted and keep up the good work.