You don’t have to like or love your parent

[Our abuse recovery guide]

I am currently working through what was said at my most recent counselling session. After discussing my mother’s behaviour again my counsellor caught me off guard when she said to me “You don’t have to like or love your parent”

“What?” I thought. This was definitely new ground for me. I have always had the notion that most people love their parents no matter what. So now I am trying to process that statement and what exactly she meant by saying it.

The only thing that I can come up with at the moment is this:
Does she mean that we actually have a choice as to whether or not we love our parents? I’m struggling to get my head around this and would be really interested in hearing if any others have any views regarding this statement x

[Feeling Better]

I am currently working through what was said at my most recent counselling session. After discussing my mother’s behaviour again my counsellor caught me off guard when she said to me “You don’t have to like or love your parent”

“What?” I thought. This was definitely new ground for me. I have always had the notion that most people love their parents no matter what. So now I am trying to process that statement and what exactly she meant by saying it.

The only thing that I can come up with at the moment is this:
Does she mean that we actually have a choice as to whether or not we love our parents? I’m struggling to get my head around this and would be really interested in hearing if any others have any views regarding this statement x

[Panda39]

I was 47 when I figured this out.  I don't have a BPDmom, but my mom and I are and always have been a mismatch.  She is intellectual where I am emotional, I'm sensitive and she less so... .much less so.  She is critical and perfectionist.

I spent the first 47 years of my life trying to please her, trying to live up to her expectations, to be smart enough etc.  I finally realized that I was a wonderful person as I am I don't need to please her to be "good" or "worthy".  I realized that all of this stuff was really her stuff.  It was important to her how I reflected on her.  It was important to her what other people thought.  It was important that I lived up to her standards.  She isn't what I need or what I want and I am not what she needs or wants me to be either.  Like I said a mismatch.

I have a relationship with my mother but it isn't close.  It isn't terrible but it isn't ideal.  She is like an acquaintance I've known for a long time.  There is a distance and I probably still have a relationship with her out of obligation and not wanting to her hurt her (as I would not intentionally want to hurt anyone). But, honestly, I can totally forget about her at times.  I have a happy life with people around me that love me as I am... .I can be authentic.  My mother doesn't approve of the authentic me and I don't really like the authentic her either.

I let go of trying to please her and let go of her to a certain extent too. Like I said I don't love her and I don't hate her, we are polite acquaintances.

Yes, you do have a choice whether or not you love your parents.

Panda39

[Turkish]

I'm glad that you brought this up,  FB. I don't struggle with this with my BFF'S from childhood, who experienced similarly in their own ways, but do in general,  especially given what society thinks, and in non-Western and Old World societies it's scandalous to even voice these feelings!

I do what I do at this point out of duty... .and also because my mother has no one else. I love her as I would anyone else off the street,  or any stranger, as I would any of you.  I have no hatred, but also no warm, fuzzy feelings.  I imagine the societal FOG is worse for daughters, too. I got a ration of crap and sworn at from my mom's former neighbor last year because I didn't fit her view of how a son should be. I received some static from some Asian co-workers when I made the mistake of opening up. "Aw, c'mon, she's your mom!" Different culture.

[Penny123]

Hello All,
I've struggled with this myself. I think an adult child struggles with this in particularly when it's not obvious that one should dislike or hate their Mom. My BPDMom was mentally sick, talked bad about her marriage to my Dad to me, and suicidal (was committed for a few times) when I was growing up. She wasn't violent nor really abusive to me or my siblings growing up. However, me as an adult, she has been very verbally abusive (even living a long distance away). I love her because she tried when I was young but it is very hard to continue to love her.  On the flipside, I'm not sure my Mom loves me or is capable of loving me.  She was mad enough to leave me a voice mail on Dec 4, 2017 that I'm no longer her daughter and that I was dead to her.  She has threaten me with restraining orders when I disagree with her about hanging out with her drug dealer.           
I think we toggle between like, love, and hate for our BPDloved one. It's a roller coaster ride the BPD goes through with us and then we go through it with them that I would not voluntary wish to do. Anyway, just some thoughts.                                                                                                                           

[madeline7]

Feeling Better,
I have very conflicted feelings about this subject. While I am not sure about how to sort out my feelings of "love" through the dense FOG, I am certain that not only do I not like my uBPDm, I can't stand her. It took me years to be able to realize this and say it out loud, and only a select few know how I really feel. I still sometimes cringe when I hear myselof say this, but she is so critical and judgmental, so negative and toxic that I find very little about her tolerable. Maybe if she wasn't traumatized as a child, maybe if she had gotten help when we all had group therapy, maybe if she had gotten help when she was hospitalized for a suicide attempt, maybe if my Dad had stood up to her, maybe... .

[YouHadMeAtHello]

I agree with your therapist.  I also think you can have an innate love for your parents but still dislike them.  I think this goes for all family, actually.  Lately, when I think about doing anything with or for my BPD sister, all I see is FOG.  I don't do anything because I like her or want to anymore.  If I wasn't afraid that she'd start cutting and didn't have a strong sense of obligation to her she wouldn't be in my life.  Does that mean I don't love her?  I honestly cannot answer that, but I don't like her very much at the present time.  If she wasn't my sister I would have cut her out of my life 10 years ago.  I think that says something. 

[cedarview]

In one of our last family therapy sessions before my Mother decided she was done and wasn't going to go anymore, I made the statement that I do not believe either of my parents love me. Period. The therapist was aghast at such a notion and asked my Mother if it was true. When she then asked my Mother to tell me to my face that she loves me, she was unable to do so.

I always thought I loved my parents too. Borderline personality disorder has caused me to question so many things I once took as fact. It's sad.

[Harri]

Hi Feeling Better.

I think I loved my mother, but I have been questioning it lately.  I blame my T.    In a session I said I loved my mom.  She looked at me and said No, you were afraid of your mother.

yikes.  is it FOG?  Left over  'survival love' from when we had to love our caretaker?  Real love even tho she was very abusive?  Haven't a clue and I am not sure I will ever be able to separate real love from whatever it is I felt for my mom.

I used to feel ashamed that I felt love for her after really looking at her behavior and finally pointing the finger at her to blame (took me decades and I am still struggling).  what I concluded a long time ago is that:
    
Love is just like any other emotion.  I no more need to act on my love than I do my anger or my hate.  In essence, so what if I love her?  My love does not have to determine my actions.

Embracing that is what helped me to make decisions that were right and healthy for me.  To stand up for myself consistently and to fight for my right to have a life free from abuse.

[Feeling Better]

Thanks everyone for your replies, they are all very helpful.

I have always loved my mum, never questioned it because she is my mum and we only have one mum right? I have accepted her behaviour towards me because, well, that’s just how she is and I have also accepted her behaviour because I told myself that I must have done something that caused her to behave in that way. The thing is that now, since having counselling, I am questioning my relationship with her and I will never love her again the way that I loved her prior to counselling. My counsellor says this is because I have become more self aware. I feel sad and I mourn the loss of the relationship that I once had with my mum, however, I am no longer prepared to let her say things or behave in a bad way to me. Nor will I be putting her feelings before my own anymore.

Panda39 I can relate totally to what you have written, I too wouldn’t say that my mum has BPD but she can be very mean and she will plot revenge if in her mind she thinks that I have wronged her. She likes to put me in my place whenever she deems it necessary. I too am a sensitive soul and I am sure my mother sees that as a weakness.
I admire your honesty in what you write and I applaud you for being able to recognise the differences between yourself and your mom, to accept them and to be able to live your own life to the best of your ability. You sound like a really caring person and I am pleased for you that you still manage to have some sort of relationship with your mom.

Thanks Turkish for your input and for bringing up the ‘duty’ word. Yes, I’m sure most of us do things out of a sense of duty and I doubt that I will be any different. I think we have to do what feels right for us though.

Penny123 I’m so sorry to hear that you are struggling with this too, I know when my mother does something mean it makes me question how someone who tells me she loves me could be so cruel. As Panda39 and my counsellor both say - that is her stuff, not mine, and considering that fact does help me to deal with it. It must have been really painful for you to receive that voicemail from your mom, how are things with her now?

madeline7 there are so many ‘maybes’ in your post, my heart goes out to you, I sense the sadness that you are feeling. I hope that you are able to sort out your feelings and come out of the FOG. I think I need to re-read about FOG at this moment in time too.

YouHadMeAtHello thank you for your post, I have to agree with you regarding being able to love someone even though you don’t like them, I’ve read that quite often here too.
Yes, there’s that bond that makes us tolerate things our family members do to us that we would never let anyone else get away with. Is that why they know that they can do it?

It is so true what you say cedarview, BPD has caused me also to question so many things, it has turned my life upside down and inside out, and yes, it is so so sad. I am so sorry to hear that your mother was unable to tell you that she loves you, that must have been really devastating for you  

[Feeling Better]

Harri, I just want to acknowledge your post, you wrote it while I was replying to the others so I have not had chance to reply just yet, but I will once I’ve had some sleep. It’s late here in UK x

[Fie]

Hello Feelingbetter  

Does she mean that we actually have a choice as to whether or not we love our parents?

I am not sure if that's what she meant ... because the way I see it, love might not be a choice in the sense that you  can force yourself (or someone else) to love. Maybe she means people who don't love their parents are not doing something wrong ?

I don't think I love my mum, or my dad. It's confusing because I do remember having loved her, once, as a child. I always thought she looked so warm and beautiful. When I look at pictures of her of that time, I unfortunately don't see warm and beautiful. Beautiful, maybe, but warm, no, the contrary actually. So I think as a child, I just saw what I wanted to see. And the subject of my love probably didn't exist at all... .this warm, caring mother, she never really was that. So when I grew up, our conflicts got more intense, and my aversion for her grew. It's not that I one day decided I wouldn't love her anymore. It's just... .When you kick your dog once, he'll forgive you, right. But you keep kicking and the dog will just keep away.

Some people are easy to love - others are not ... .

Also, if, in the impossible scenario, my mother would turn up at my doorstep, and acknowledges her stuff, which in the same scenario would lead to us having a healthy relationship, I do think I would start to love her. Well I think I would decide to try to love her, but maybe my feelings wouldn't follow... .I don't know.

A few years ago I was horrified to admit these feelings to myself. Now I just think it's normal. The  dog, right ?

[Peacewithin]

Hi, Feeling Better. 

Something that has helped me is to separate out the person from the behavior.  And, really the soul from the ego, too.  I do not love my uBPD mom's ego or behavior.  But, I do love her on a soul level. 

Also, when I think of her as a little kid, I feel a lot of love in my heart. 

Problem is that I grew up learning to love her more than myself.  That's something that I can't do, not if I want to be healthy and happy.  Can't save her. 

Just my approach.  Hope it's helpful.   

[cedarview]

Also, when I think of her as a little kid, I feel a lot of love in my heart. 

This. When I think of my mother as a little girl, I also feel love and a desperate desire to be forgiving. I know that she was subjected to abuse of some kind and told that she was a "mistake", at least by her father. If I could go back and change that for her sake I would. It is truly tragic that her messed up childhood most likely contributed to her becoming BPD and in turn messing up my childhood. But the cycle stops here; my kids won't be touched by that illness and negativity, at least not while my wife and I are on this earth!

[Peacewithin]

This. When I think of my mother as a little girl, I also feel love and a desperate desire to be forgiving. I know that she was subjected to abuse of some kind and told that she was a "mistake", at least by her father. If I could go back and change that for her sake I would. It is truly tragic that her messed up childhood most likely contributed to her becoming BPD and in turn messing up my childhood. But the cycle stops here; my kids won't be touched by that illness and negativity, at least not while my wife and I are on this earth!

Good on you for stopping the cycle!   

[Feeling Better]

Harri, sorry for the delay in replying to you post, you gave me something to think about.

Hi Feeling Better.

I think I loved my mother, but I have been questioning it lately.  I blame my T.    In a session I said I loved my mom.  She looked at me and said No, you were afraid of your mother.

Wow, how did that make you feel to be told that you didn’t love your mother, rather, that you were afraid of her? That must have been really confusing. I’ve been confused just by being told that I don’t have to love my mother. I’m still trying to get my head around it as I’ve always thought it was an innate thing to love one’s parents, now I’m not so sure.

yikes.  is it FOG?  Left over  'survival love' from when we had to love our caretaker?  Real love even tho she was very abusive?  Haven't a clue and I am not sure I will ever be able to separate real love from whatever it is I felt for my mom.

I am sorry to hear that your mom was very abusive towards you, you have certainly had a lot to deal with and what I am sensing here is that it is maybe compassion that you feel for your mom.

I am so glad that you have been able to figure out what works for you, that enables you to live the life that you choose, and I thank you so much for your input  


Hi Fie

Maybe she means people who don't love their parents are not doing something wrong ?

Yes, I think I get where you are coming from, do you think that some people might feel guilt if they don’t love their parents?

You say Some people are easy to love - others are not, that speaks volumes to me, it is so true. Just think, how wonderful it would be if everyone was easy to love... .

You must have been really hurt by your mother in the past and I am sorry you had to go through that. Like you say, keep kicking the dog and the dog will keep away.

Also, if, in the impossible scenario, my mother would turn up at my doorstep, and acknowledges her stuff, which in the same scenario would lead to us having a healthy relationship, I do think I would start to love her. Well I think I would decide to try to love her, but maybe my feelings wouldn't follow... .I don't know.

A few years ago I was horrified to admit these feelings to myself. Now I just think it's normal. The  dog, right ?

It sounds to me as if deep down part of you would still like to have a relationship with your mother but at the same time you know that it is highly unlikely. Acceptance  

Peacewithin, I love what you wrote, it sounds simple but oh so effective. I will definitely take that with me as it is much easier to accept that is ok to love the essence of someone and not love the behaviour. Thank you so much.  

Yes, like you, I learnt to love my mother more than myself, and not just her, practically everybody else in my life too! Oh boy is that starting to change now, it’s taken me a while but I have come to realise that I matter and I can put myself first, it’s ok

[Peacewithin]

 

[Fie]

I do love her on a soul level. 

Also, when I think of her as a little kid, I feel a lot of love in my heart. 

I also have that. I thought I was a weirdo feeling love for my mum on a soul level. It's nice to see that other people also feel this  :-P

[Fie]

Feeling better,

Yes, I think I get where you are coming from, do you think that some people might feel guilt if they don’t love their parents?

Yes, I know I did.
Turkish pointed out the role of society here, I think that's spot on.

Yesterday was parents' alienation awareness day. There were numbers in the newspaper : X (number) of parents are alienated in my country. I don't like unbiased figures like that. I'm sure my mother counts herself among the X (while it's her upholding NC - but she's the big victim, you know) :-(

[Harri]

Hi Feeling Better. 

Wow, how did that make you feel to be told that you didn’t love your mother, rather, that you were afraid of her? That must have been really confusing. I’ve been confused just by being told that I don’t have to love my mother. I’m still trying to get my head around it as I’ve always thought it was an innate thing to love one’s parents, now I’m not so sure.

My T telling me that made sense given the context.  I was talking about sexual abuse and how I would just take it.  But her comment did get me thinking.  I have always stood by the fact that I loved my mother and she loved me and even here, i get challenged on it.  So I've been thinking about it more and more.  Love just is.  I think mine is left over from more primitive survival instinct coupled with just who I am.  My love is mine and not contingent on the behaviors of another.  It just is.  Still doesn't mean I have to act on it and it certainly doesn't mean I have to allow someone to abuse me (when coupled with fear or whatever).  I do think I still confuse other feelings with love.  Like responsibility for example.  I always felt responsible for taking care of my mom.  I watched out for her even at a very young age, speaking up if someone was mean or rude.  I protected her, mostly from her own behavior.  Was it responsibility, grooming or was it love?  52 years later I think it would be almost impossible to sort out.  It just is.  I don't think it is much different from people here talking about soul love or looking at their mom as a child.  I've seen the small child my mother really was.  She never appeared vulnerable to me though... .more shriveled and timid and sick.  I think I figured out why that is; it is different with her because of the paranoid schizophrenia that was never treated. That look in her eyes.  I don't know really.  Maybe I am just kidding myself. 

I don't worry about the love issue too much.  One reason for me is because my mother is dead.  But really, I think the biggest issue with love in these relationships is for those who feel compelled to do certain things because of how they define love.  Like being in contact.  Celebrating her as a mother.  Having a family.  Allowing her to be a grandmother, etc.  We don't get to define love through the same actions most of society does. 

Can't tell if I am making sense or not.  Sorry for the rambles.

[Penny123]

Hello Harri, I agree with your post and it makes perfect sense esp your last line "We don't get to define love through the same actions most of society does."

[bluek9]

Hi feeling better,

         What a concept uhu? That we should actually have a choice about our own parents. I'm 60 and learned that at age 35, also with the help of my counselor. His question to me was "why does there have to be forgiveness on your part"? Another great question. My wonder has always been which came first the BPD or the alcoholism with my dad. Any way I came to the conclusion that I DON'T HAVE TO LOVE MY PARENTS OR EVEN LIKE THEM. So for the last 25 years I don't have feelings for my parents. There is just nothing, not even obligation. So my parents are both still living (not far from me), I told my mom several years ago why I won't come to see them, because of my dad. She did her best to guilt me, didn't work. I have the most minimal contact with her. I'm not saying this line of thought is for everyone, it's just works for me, helps to keep their toxicity out of my life.

[WalkingWounded]

I've been coming to terms with this recently myself. I've always felt my mother's "love" was conditional, and now I realize that it really was. It also wasn't "love" in the way that we would usually define it from a mother to a child. I had to face the fact that if someone doesn't speak to you for a whole year because you don't do what they want that's not normal, and that bullying, control and intimidation isn't "love". The most important question I asked myself was, "would you want this person anywhere near you if she weren't your mother?", and the answer to that was "No". I'm getting better at accepting the reality of the situation, although I don't know if I can find a definitive word as to how I feel about her yet. Sometimes I feel like I have an obligation to feel pity towards her because she has a mental disorder, but she also had an obligation to get help and not emotionally abuse her child.

[GeekyGirl]

When I think of my mother as a little girl, I also feel love and a desperate desire to be forgiving. I know that she was subjected to abuse of some kind and told that she was a "mistake", at least by her father. If I could go back and change that for her sake I would.

This is a fantastic point. That's a great way of looking at it--often people with BPD have endured some horrific things or felt inadequate for most of their lives. I like the idea of ending the dysfunctional cycle as well. 

It does seem easier to be empathetic to my mother when I imagine how she grew up, and I have often thought that no one would truly choose to have BPD. My mother doesn't deserve to hate herself. That said, she doesn't get a pass to treat others poorly either and project those feelings of self-loathing.

Do I love my mother? Yes, but I don't feel close to her at all, and a big chunk of that love stems from the empathy I feel for her.

[Libra]

Hi Feeling Better,

I am still very new to all of this. As stated in previous posts I have only just started T and am now aware of my enmeshment with my mother. I am not sure she is uBPD, but she can be very hurtful, negative, criticizing and manipulative. I have been in NC for 3 months now, out of my choice as much as hers.

If I am truly honest with myself, I would have to say that I do not love my mother. I feel a failure because of this. I feel heartless, and it makes me wonder over and over again if it isn’t actually me that’s the problem, instead of her. That being said, I am not the one that has a rage every 6 months or so, nor the one venting my gall every time we see each other.

It has been imprinted in my mind that I should love my mother, and be there for her, no matter what. But, just like YouHAdMeAtHello said: when I think about doing anything for my Mom, all I see is FOG. I don’t do it because I like her or want to. It is thanks to the NC that I now realize this.
But then – maybe my mother is just acting up because of this lack of feeling from my part? Is it me being dysfunctional?

I have been reading a lot of posts here on the board, and I realize that my situation is nothing compared to the nightmares of any kind of relationship with a true pwBPD. My heart goes out to all those who have suffered so much. I have true admiration for the strong and resilient souls on this board. So maybe I shouldn’t be so confused and hurt. Maybe I should just get on with life as it is and stop complaining. Or is this just more FOG clouding my mind and judgment? I feel like I'm in an endless loop of self-doubt.

Going off-topic here, sorry for the chatter.

[Panda39]

If I am truly honest with myself, I would have to say that I do not love my mother. I feel a failure because of this. I feel heartless, and it makes me wonder over and over again if it isn’t actually me that’s the problem, instead of her. That being said, I am not the one that has a rage every 6 months or so, nor the one venting my gall every time we see each other.

It has been imprinted in my mind that I should love my mother, and be there for her, no matter what. But, just like YouHAdMeAtHello said: when I think about doing anything for my Mom, all I see is FOG. I don’t do it because I like her or want to. It is thanks to the NC that I now realize this.
But then – maybe my mother is just acting up because of this lack of feeling from my part? Is it me being dysfunctional?

Hi Libra,

Nice to have you in the mix  

I see FOG in your post (says the gypsy looking into the FOG filled crystal ball  ... .you are not responsible for your mother's feelings or her behaviors she is.  

So many here try so hard to make the person in their life with BPD happy, by being perfect, or good, or walking on eggshells, or taking blame for things that aren't ours to own, hoping that it will change everything.  We can not change or control another person, we can only create change and control what we do.  Twisting ourselves into pretzels for someone else will not change them and it doesn't allow us to be our true and authentic selves.  

What I hear in your post is you taking blame or owning things... .behaviors, feelings, dysfunction that are really hers to own.

Your mother is "acting up" because that is what she does not because of anything you are doing or not doing. She is responsible for her own actions.  

If I am truly honest with myself, I would have to say that I do not love my mother. I feel a failure because of this. I feel heartless, and it makes me wonder over and over again if it isn’t actually me that’s the problem... .

Why are you a failure because you don't love someone that is abusive and hurtful towards you?  To me it sounds very healthy to not love someone that treats you badly.

So maybe I shouldn’t be so confused and hurt.

When you have someone with BPD/BPD Traits in your life or even like me a mother that doesn't have BPD but is hurtful and critical in a society that says mothers are all light and sunshine, your feelings above make perfect sense.  Our mothers are not living up to our ideals (and in some cases not living up to basic parenting standards) so it is confusing, it is hurtful, it hurts our self-esteem when we are never good enough in the eyes of our mothers, it makes us bend ourselves into pretzels trying to be good enough.  Until one day we realize that our true and authentic selves are wonderful people, that we have others in our lives that love us just the way we are, that we are imperfect and those imperfections are what make us, us and that we are wonderful.  Your mother and my mother can't see it and certainly can't reflect our wonderfulness back to us but that doesn't make us any less wonderful as we are.

In my opinion it is important to nurture those relationships where you can be you and you appreciated for who you are and not waste time and energy on people that aren't playing a positive role in your life.

Panda39

[Feeling Better]

Hi Feeling Better.  
My T telling me that made sense given the context.  I was talking about sexual abuse and how I would just take it.  But her comment did get me thinking.  I have always stood by the fact that I loved my mother and she loved me and even here, i get challenged on it.  So I've been thinking about it more and more.  Love just is.  I think mine is left over from more primitive survival instinct coupled with just who I am.  My love is mine and not contingent on the behaviors of another.  It just is.  Still doesn't mean I have to act on it and it certainly doesn't mean I have to allow someone to abuse me (when coupled with fear or whatever).  I do think I still confuse other feelings with love.  Like responsibility for example.  I always felt responsible for taking care of my mom.  I watched out for her even at a very young age, speaking up if someone was mean or rude.  I protected her, mostly from her own behavior.  Was it responsibility, grooming or was it love?  52 years later I think it would be almost impossible to sort out.  It just is.  I don't think it is much different from people here talking about soul love or looking at their mom as a child.  I've seen the small child my mother really was.  She never appeared vulnerable to me though... .more shriveled and timid and sick.  I think I figured out why that is; it is different with her because of the paranoid schizophrenia that was never treated. That look in her eyes.  I don't know really.  Maybe I am just kidding myself.  

I don't worry about the love issue too much.  One reason for me is because my mother is dead.  But really, I think the biggest issue with love in these relationships is for those who feel compelled to do certain things because of how they define love.  Like being in contact.  Celebrating her as a mother.  Having a family.  Allowing her to be a grandmother, etc.  We don't get to define love through the same actions most of society does.  

Can't tell if I am making sense or not.  Sorry for the rambles.

Harri, like you, I tend to think that love just is. You say that you loved your mother and she loved you, although it can be very confusing, I can see why despite your mothers abuse towards you, the very fact that your love is reciprocated would make it difficult for you to not love her. For me it is the words and actions thing, we forgive so much in the name of love, but I sometimes think that if someone really loved you then they wouldn’t treat you badly. Having said that, when looking at the bigger picture, there are always so many other factors that come into play which affect behaviour. Behaviour is a choice but bad behaviour doesn’t always affect whether you love someone or not, that is down to your perception. Sorry if I’ve rambled there, just trying to get thoughts down, and to clarify, where I have written you and your, I don’t mean you specifically, I am trying to generalise.

Responsibility is a difficult one because everyone should be responsible for themselves and I can see how feeling responsible for someone could be learned by conditioning, but also, would you feel responsible for someone you don’t love?

I think basically, as long as we are at peace with ourselves and are happy with the decisions and choices we make, then we are doing what feels right for us and that is ok. I think that is what you are doing Harri  

[HappyChappy]

as long as we are at peace with ourselves

It seems that we’ve discussed the fact a BPD upbringing can send us towards perfectionism and makes us over think.  So this question “you don’t have to like your parents” can also flip for the people pleasing BPD children, which is its OK for someone to dislike you. I remember a friend once saying the great thing about racists, is it points out who the a**holes are, so you can avoid them. But I guess the only necessary love, is we need to love ourselves, but not in a NPD way, in a grey way. A grey we are a peace with.  

[Fie]

Libra,

I have been reading a lot of posts here on the board, and I realize that my situation is nothing compared to the nightmares of any kind of relationship with a true pwBPD. My heart goes out to all those who have suffered so much.

And my heart goes out to you, too. You have as much right to be here, as anyone. First, it isn't a competition who's parent was worst.

Second, it also doesn't matter if the official diagnosis 'BPD' (or NPD) can be made for our family member. What really matters, is how their behavior affects us. Apparently, the behavior of your BPD (or BPD-ish) is such that you don't feel good about it. Else you wouldn't be here.
We are here to get to a better life, with more happiness. To navigate our worries. There is no exam to pass, to see if you feel bad enough to be here.

Third, what you probably have read about in a lot of posts, is members' emotions. A lot of posts are not detailed descriptions of horrible things done by BPD. So you cannot even know if, let's say, my mother has BPD, or if my father has BPD. What you do know, is that I am affected enough by them, to be here. What I mean is, objectively, you cannot even compare my or anyone else's situation, to yours.

And last but not least ... .the fact that you are doubting, 'is it me ?', 'do I have the right to be here' to me is a strong indicator of the fact that you have been emotionally neglected, else you would not be so hard on yourself. Mind you, I also have had (and still have, sometimes) those feelings, and I think a lot of other members too.

You are very, very welcome to be here.

[Harri]

Hi Feeling Better

For me it is the words and actions thing, we forgive so much in the name of love, but I sometimes think that if someone really loved you then they wouldn’t treat you badly. Having said that, when looking at the bigger picture, there are always so many other factors that come into play which affect behaviour. Behaviour is a choice but bad behaviour doesn’t always affect whether you love someone or not, that is down to your perception.

I understand what you are saying.   With my mother I knew nothing else.  With an ex the emotional and verbal abuse and mind games were familiar.  I can remember having flashes of insight only to push them away because I felt good being in a relationship and i was afraid that no one else would put up with me.  And those are only a couple of the factors that had me believing in his love for me.  Funny thing is, just like my mom, I believe he did love me.  It is just his version of love that was off... .as was mine.
You said: 

Behaviour is a choice but bad behaviour doesn’t always affect whether you love someone or not, that is down to your perception.

This is what I just took so many words to say in my own way.  LOL  I am leaving my thoughts along with yours so I can remember the connection.  It *is* down to our perception.  Thank you!

I think basically, as long as we are at peace with ourselves and are happy with the decisions and choices we make, then we are doing what feels right for us and that is ok. I think that is what you are doing Harri

Thank you so much for saying this.  I am not at peace with myself yet but I am okay with this whole love business.  It just is. 

[Libra]

Panda39, thank you for your beautiful words! I see many truths in your post. It is important to believe in ones’ own true and authentic self.
Love and respect for your own self is the first step to loving and respecting others in a healthy way, is it not?

Fie, thank you for your welcome. Points well taken. Self-reflection was not really big in my family, nor was talking about emotions. As you see, I’m working on it.