I have taken my ex to high-court yesterday to get access to my children. (Part3)

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

Thanks all for your comments! I'm processing what you've said and will revert.

Lawyers, and advocates are calling eachother having discussions, and making recommendations. See below

"As discussed, Counsel agrees that we should not proceed with an order for contempt but that we should rather agree to collaboratively prepare a new parenting plan which we will make an order of court. If we cannot agree, or if there is no compliance, then we can reinstate the application for contempt.  I have explained to you the reasons for this.

I understand that you want us to ask Moselle ex for an order by consent in which she confirms that she is in contempt but suspends the consequences of the order whilst we agree a parenting plan.  I can put this to her but I do not recommend it and nor does counsel and it may be detrimental to what you are ultimately wanting to achieve ie care of your children going forward in the long term. "

In any event, I will wait to hear from you regarding your instructions on how to respond to Moselle Ex's attorneys."

My ex is also properly dysregulated right now. I can tell because the children are not taking my calls.

Some risks:
- She throws her lawyer out "because I've charmed her in to taking my side" or some similar nonsense. She fired one once for talking to me. I would be a pity, this one seems realistic and reasonable.
- Indeed, as L&L says, she is highly likely to run (done it before, kidnapping my kids originally).
- She is capable of violence. She is like a cornered rat right now. There is one fact about cornered rats. They bite.

Regards,
Moselle
Mod note: Topic continued from Part 2

[Moselle]

Thanks all for your comments! I'm processing what you've said and will revert.

Lawyers, and advocates are calling eachother having discussions, and making recommendations. See below

"As discussed, Counsel agrees that we should not proceed with an order for contempt but that we should rather agree to collaboratively prepare a new parenting plan which we will make an order of court. If we cannot agree, or if there is no compliance, then we can reinstate the application for contempt.  I have explained to you the reasons for this.

I understand that you want us to ask Moselle ex for an order by consent in which she confirms that she is in contempt but suspends the consequences of the order whilst we agree a parenting plan.  I can put this to her but I do not recommend it and nor does counsel and it may be detrimental to what you are ultimately wanting to achieve ie care of your children going forward in the long term. "

In any event, I will wait to hear from you regarding your instructions on how to respond to Moselle Ex's attorneys."

My ex is also properly dysregulated right now. I can tell because the children are not taking my calls.

Some risks:
- She throws her lawyer out "because I've charmed her in to taking my side" or some similar nonsense. She fired one once for talking to me. I would be a pity, this one seems realistic and reasonable.
- Indeed, as L&L says, she is highly likely to run (done it before, kidnapping my kids originally).
- She is capable of violence. She is like a cornered rat right now. There is one fact about cornered rats. They bite.

Regards,
Moselle
Mod note: Topic continued from Part 2

[david]

I would suggest focusing on what you believe is best for the children. Having the court make ex do things to make things right is not something I saw the courts do. I was in court for about 5 years and then things started to settle down.
The biggest reason was two fold: ex wasn't "winning" in court anymore and I finally was able to get 50/50 so, in exes' mind, she no longer had power over me. We were in a custody eval meeting when I realized how much she "needed" to have that power. She became very desperate when she began to realize she wasn't going to win. She actually threatened the evaluator with jail time ? I sat there and listened. The evaluator handled it well and remained calm. I realized ex completely lost it right then and there as far as the evaluation was going to go. The evaluator recommended every single thing I was requesting from the courts even though it was not what he would have suggested. He challenged me about a few things. I gave him reasonable answers and I believe he deferred to my judgement since I remained calm and stayed focused on the kids. I let him handle exes' accusations. If he wanted an explanation from me I gave it. If he didn't ask me anything I let it go just like he was. A big part was I was calm and did not react to anything ex said/did. I wasn't part of the problem.
The courts never tried to address any wrongs towards me by ex. Even if it was a week ago the courts handled it like let bygones be bygones.

[formflier]

Why on earth would you "give up a contempt order"... .when you are just about to get one?

Isn't that leverage in your legal system?

I would ask very detailed questions about why your lawyer thinks it wise to skip a contempt hearing you are sure to win... .at first glance... to me... .that seems like rescuing defeat from the jaws of victory.

Yes... .you want effective parenting.  That's NOT going to happen without consequences!  Does your L understand that?

So... .this may be the first of several contempt orders that it "takes"... .I would be reluctant to give it up

Now... .if she agrees to a parenting plan that is wonderful... .has consequences... .basically everything else you want... .but for some reason... .doesn't want contempt... well... maybe.

Make sure consequences are written into any new plan.

FF

[formflier]

- She is capable of violence. She is like a cornered rat right now. There is one fact about cornered rats. They bite.

 

True... .very true.

But in this case they would bite you AND the court.  You guys can bite back.

FF

[GaGrl]

If your L and Ex's L are saying that the contempt charge won't be pursued in favor of a new parenting plan, and the expectation is that you will drop the upcoming scheduled appearance, you are taking a HUGE RISK that your Ex and her L will then take their sweet time in putting together and agreeing on the parenting plan.

So, can you tell Ex's L that you will hold the April court appearance, and if the parenting plan in not in place and signed at that time, your intent is that the appearance will take place?

[ForeverDad]

Getting a Contempt decision is a landmark event, it dings her perceived parenting and can be referenced in the future.  Right now, what is parenting like?  Is it equal time or does one parent have majority time?  Do you have Decision Making or Tie Breaker status?

How would letting her skate on the Contempt charge encourage a better parenting plan?  Many here have been jaded by lawyers wanting to make deals that end up being weaker than we wished.  I recall the time post-divorce when I filed CC and my lawyer literally said it was a slam dunk.  However, it was within weeks of the final decree.  The magistrate surprised him by ruling the old two-year temp order she was non-compliant with was no longer in effect and the new final order she was non-compliant with (vacation notice by Feb 15) was too new to have the 'ability' to comply with since she didn't have the full amount of time to do the paperwork (final order March 5 specified less advance time, 30 days advance notice but she had left on vacation about 2 weeks after that).  Well, she didn't even try to comply with either order regarding notice of vacation but the magistrate ignored that.  Since lawyer was stunned, I figured the magistrate performed mental gymnastics to arrive at that decision.

Yes, courts and lawyers love it when deals are brokered.  Is your lawyer more comfortable with settlements than moving ahead to arguing a case in court?  Or maybe he's thinking a bird in the hand is better than two in the bush?

[david]

I would agree having the parenting plan in place before dropping the contempt charges, if that is an idea. Dropping with just a promise is a good strategy for the other side.

I filed against my ex because she would not agree to a summer schedule which was 50/50. I let her make the schedule so she felt in charge. It seemed much easier. Her first schedule was 70/30 in her favor. This was all in emails. Her second proposal was 80/20 in her favor. I filed togo to court. The day before the hearing ex set up a mediation to resolve the issue. I spent around three hours going round and round with no agreement. The mediator put us in separate rooms. At that point I realized ex would not agree with anything I proposed so I agreed with everything ex said she wanted when we were in the room together. The mediator looked at me kind of puzzled because I offered her a bet that ex would say no. We went in the room together, the mediator explained that I was agreeing with everything ex said she wanted, and ex said no. It was then that I stood up and said I was leaving. Went to court the next day ex had a schedule that followed the court order exactly, 50/50. I was out the door in about 20 minutes. Reality has nothing to do with dealing with BPD. It was all about my exes' feelings until reality was going to slap her in the face, figuratively speaking. Then she had to reverse course and do what she was supposed to do. It's the same as dealing with a small child.

[livednlearned]

"As discussed, Counsel agrees that we should not proceed with an order for contempt but that we should rather agree to collaboratively prepare a new parenting plan which we will make an order of court

Is there a hard deadline for this parenting plan to go into effect? If you give up 4/24 date, does that mean you lose this impending court date as leverage?

If we cannot agree, or if there is no compliance, then we can reinstate the application for contempt. 

Being able to reinstate the application for contempt sounds fine for two reasonable people. It seems like your struggle at this point could turn into obstruction, stonewalling, etc. Do you feel prepared to give up the 4/24 trial date in exchange for what could be protracted negotiations (including those that are beyond your control, like getting things on the court calendar)?

I understand that you want us to ask Moselle ex for an order by consent in which she confirms that she is in contempt but suspends the consequences of the order whilst we agree a parenting plan.  I can put this to her but I do not recommend it and nor does counsel and it may be detrimental to what you are ultimately wanting to achieve ie care of your children going forward in the long term. "

david gives really good advice on this. It's hard to give up the dream that courts will deliver justice (e.g. getting an apology for bad behavior), or promises to behave better in the future).

The best you may get at this point is court-ordered leverage (like deadlines for y if x occurs), and consequences for non-compliance, plus a reasonable attorney who is attempting (for now) to get his client in line.

Looking at her history (if I am remembering this correctly), when confronted with the prospect of going to jail for being in contempt, her behavior escalated (false allegations of sexual impropriety). Her L has implied that she does not seem to understand the seriousness of her situation. She has a family of negative advocates who may be fanning the narrative of sexual abuse (it has happened in their family, they are likely to believe this). She has left with the kids before and cut contact.

Is it possible she might be experiencing psychosis? In which case, maybe it's worth running through two or three contingency plans:

*what happens if she fires her lawyer, how to get what's best for you and the kids in case this happens
*what happens if she takes the kids, what can you do to make sure she doesn't leave the country and/or draw up emergency orders with consequences if that happens
*what happens if she stonewalls once the 4/24 trial date is dropped, how long before you will get something on the calendar, and what happens at that point and in the interim

[Moselle]

@formflier

This, I believe, is your center of gravity... .the most important thing.

I decided to make the center of gravity, getting access to the children and a social worker involved. She is a specialist well known to the courts here, who I researched beforehand and specified in the Parenting plan.
I've also specified strict deliverables and deadlines failing which the contempt charge is reinstated.

At this stage I decided to take the moral high ground and not take the risk of looking like the vindictive ex-husband trying to get his ex-wife charged with a crime.

These are my objectives:

1.   To have a constructive and loving relationship with each of my children.
2.   Civil and cooperative communication with ex-wife on matters regarding the children.
3.   For all parties to abide by the court orders currently in place.

I also thought if I get her convicted, she will use it to alienate the children further... .":)o you know what your father did?"

Her lawyer is clearly nervous about it as she has admittedly no cogent defense. I'm using that to get what I want. Once I have the contempt charge where is my leverage? (If she breaks it, I then look like the bad guy again to the children for having her arrested)

It might be counter-intuitive as my initial instinct is to go for the jugular, but on reflection, I believe this is the right way. It shows reasonableness to the court, who finds my rather detailed parenting plan tedious in the first place :-)

I know what games my ex likes to play, so I can focus on neutralizing those in a new steamlined plan.

@SlyQQ

Full custody? you may want to ask the children , gently , what they think.

you may ,if careful have the oppertunity to be the bigger person here, to everyones benefit

don't squander it.

Yes, that's it. Thanks SlyQQ

Full custody is the long plan. I want the children to open up to me. They aren't yet?

@formflier

Its important for me, and for future court appearances that she repair the reputation damage against me (otherwise she will bring up the same lies and accusations again with another judge): (this is tied to the sex allegations... .clearly number 1)

I settled on this in the end. I already have her deposed to that abuse stuff already.  Only she now says she was pressured into saying it. She now confirms all of that.

“I confirm the contents of the affidavit I previously deposed to on oath dated 31 October 2016 which is attached hereto marked “A”.
I further recant all statements I have made which allege any sexual impropriety by Moselle towards our daughters, D17, D13, and D8. I affirm that during our marriage he was, and still is, a caring and devoted father towards them.”

@panda

To me the focus needs to be on your relationship with your kids and getting that back on track.
Use this leverage to get your time with your kids (and make up time), maybe request therapy for you and them. Keep your focus where it should be on seeing your kids.

Thanks Panda, that's where I went with this!

[formflier]

So... .you have a new signed parenting plan or will have one before the contempt charge is dropped or the court date given up?

I didn't see that detail... .

or

Have you agreed that you will agree soon on a new parenting plan?

FF

[Moselle]

@livednlearned

Wow! What a turn of events.
 
Her L is aware there is no defense, but your ex is not. There's a whole world of potential high conflict behaviors in that comment. She is dysregulated. You will have to do the thinking for both parties.

Has your L had a chance to explain (to you) what options your ex has, and what consequences are in play?

Knowing that might help you decide whether it is better to go before a judge.

Not because court is better than settling, only that your ex seems wily and desperate right now. In that state of mind, what might she do? She probably feels cornered. I would be thinking about that at the same time you are thinking about these negotiations.

If she strings things along to the final hour, do you lose the 4/24 trial date, and if so, what happens next? How long before it could be scheduled again?

If your ex does not appear for court, what happens next?

Yes, she is currently seriously dysregulated. I have given her a very black and white series of deliveries and deadlines to meet.

If she does not pitch on 24th, or breaks any of the court orders, we go onto the emergency roll. Amazingly, last time we were before a judge in three days. They will likely not be amused if she doesn't pitch for her contempt hearing.

The young and inexperienced curator-ad-litem appointed by the court was a disaster, she, bless her cotton socks, challenged the family advocate, my parenting and suggested supervised parenting based on my ex's lies. This was also based on some spurious sexual touching lies coached to the girls. I was fortunately able to counter that with testimony by my mother who has been there every minute (deliberately), but the risk is that the court listens to the curator, not the family advocate who ruled in my favour.

The lawyers want to put some time between the curator's report and any application for contempt in the future. (ie why would a reasonable mother agree to a new parenting plan with a father getting more time with the children if any of the allegations were true). It strengthens my case. I also have a specialist social worker, mandated in this "deal", who will hopefully be another specialist testimony in my favour, and in contrast to the curator who has no social work specialization. The social worker is well known to the courts and very reputable.

What happens if you take her to court and she is found in contempt of court by a judge?

Again, don't forget about what she may be experiencing right now. *Naive* seems to be a euphemism for something else. She may be projecting her own unresolved sexual abuse trauma onto the girls, and with feelings = facts, it could be very real to her. She may think her L and the judge just don't get it. Her thought process may be more like, No one is going to protect my babies, so I will.  

Can you simply say that another contempt of court barring the kids from seeing you, or filing frivolous motions will create favorable conditions for her losing custody? Or stronger wording.

The children aren't ready for this yet. Curator's report threw water on this possibility for now. The fight is to rebuild the relationship with the girls, and get a specialist to recommend 50/50. That's the best I can do for now. I cant do more than 50/50, yet. I need the two weeks for work travel
  

Seems reasonable to ask. Be prepared to not see this money. Or to be required to file a contempt of court to get it, spending money to get money.

I left this out in the end

Does family law court do "guilty" where you live? I don't believe that's a thing where I live, but maybe it's different there.

What does that mean in practice? Where I live, if the case is dropped, that would mean there is no case. Are you asking for an apology letter?

Yes I think there's "guilty", but I'm told by the lawyers they are loathe to convict a mother due to parenting plan violation. She has to pull a gun or something really stupid.

We are temporarily suspending it, contingent upon certain deliverables, and 100% compliance with the court order. Even if I get a conviction, then what? I have to enforce it and get her arrested. The children will hate me for it. Its against my goals... .for now.

Knowing what the last 10 months have been like, is she likely to agree and then not follow through? What consequences would there be for non-compliance?

She is likely to comply for 3 or 4 weeks, to get the new parenting plan in place, thereafter, she is likely to break the deal. It will mean automatic reinstatement of the contempt charge. this seems to be a common thing. It can be heard very quickly by a high court judge. Max a week. Amazing actually. Then what can she say? She's absolutely done at that point. Or if she keeps to plan, great. I win both ways.

Do you really want to do that together?

No :-)

I can see where you're coming from with this. Whenever I wrote something up, I always made sure I could enforce it, or that it had consequences for non-compliance. If you are more concerned about knowing the emotional health of the kids than you are about the money, this might change how you go about doing this.

I went for the emotional health.

Again, probably better to have a consequence for non-compliance because agreements aren't worth much at this point. Then see if you can set up an alert system for the kids' passports, if that exists where you live. Put their names in the data base and flag them so that there are arrows pointing to the court order. Then have a consequence that you will get full custody if she is found in contempt, or whatever seems reasonable to you.

I didn't know there were such data bases. I've allowed the passports to expire. She asked for my signature I said "no"

Same point as above. She hasn't been in compliance prior to this, she will probably fall into old patterns. Also, you will want to add the additional time you mentioned above, so it will be 50/50 plus whatever extra holidays you get.

Contempt charges reinstated. Before a judge in less than a week.

You would probably have to write it and then there would be back and forth between Ls, tweaking language, so that she signs it.

I went for the rush tactic (instead of wordsmithing) on this one. I've given her the wording, vetted by my lawyer. Her deadline is tomorrow at 5pm. No affidavit? she's in court for contempt on Tuesday .

She may tell the kids she was forced to do it (you're a bully) so that they didn't take the kids away from her.

Yes indeed 

It seems like you still have some faith that she can be rehabilitated and made to listen to reason.

I'm a great father, and good for the girls. She knows that. Whether she listens or not, is immaterial now. If she breaks the parenting plan, she's in court within a week for contempt. Eventually the courts will lose their patience. Especially if I've been reasonable

Maybe she is not as disordered as my ex, but the point that you are now at is about when I began to structure everything so that even when my ex did not comply, I still came out ahead.

I felt the tide begin to turn last year October when the family advocate ruled in my favour. Can you be more specific about how you did that?

You and the courts are now working together to find solutions, to keep the two of you out of court. That means structuring the orders so that even if she is in non-compliance on most things, you have a map for how to handle it. If she does a, you do b. If she does not do c, you do d.

Be really, really specific in the language, and make it watertight if you can.

Yes, the big stick which her lawyer is scared about because they have no case, is the potential contempt charge. It's actually worth more to me as a threat than an actual charge. I don't have to execute the arrest this way.

[formflier]

I'm much more comfortable, given the additional details you provided.  I think you have struck a smart balance... and put her in a position, that she likely doesn't understand she is in... yet. 

She may realize that the next time she "tries" to break the plan.

FF

[Moselle]

@livednlearned

FF, I'm surprised to hear you say that.

She's mentally ill. She makes terrible decisions for her kids and for herself when she feels threatened or desperate. These decisions have serious consequences for Moselle, and for his kids.

During my 4 years in court, there were two cases when desperate defendants shot the other parent. They felt they were losing their kids and losing their footing in family law court.

Some desperate parents leave the country with the kids.

The judge in my case always treated my ex with respect, even when my ex accused the judge of lying. The judge also had an extra bailiff in our court whenever we had a hearing.

His respect helped de-escalate and his protective instincts were pro-active.

My comment about her feeling cornered is not to escalate, it's to de-escalate.

Moselle can focus on solutions by structuring the order in a way that works effectively whether she complies or not.

Indeed,

She's  dysregulated, that is crazy and traumatic for my kids to see. Her husband is just as cracked unfortunately! This is about getting to an equilibrium, minimizing the damage and trauma. The equilibrium is observance of the parenting plan, monitoring by a social worker, with the knowledge that if she goes into breach she will be before a judge on contempt within a week. If that can be achieved. It's a success.

I actually wish she would get treatment for her problems. I don't want the drama.

@Gagrl

What is her behavior in court?  How does she respond to the pressure of a courtroom and judge?

She is confused and disoriented in the courtroom. Outside, she is aggressive and and shouts.

@formflier

Why on earth would you "give up a contempt order"... .when you are just about to get one?

This is counter intuitive. It's more valuable to me as a threat at the moment as a consequence to breach of the new plan.

If I am awarded a contempt charge, then I am responsible for executing the arrest warrant. How will that look to the children? and what distress will that cause them?

It may be different in 6 months time.

@Gagrl

If your L and Ex's L are saying that the contempt charge won't be pursued in favor of a new parenting plan, and the expectation is that you will drop the upcoming scheduled appearance, you are taking a HUGE RISK that your Ex and her L will then take their sweet time in putting together and agreeing on the parenting plan.

So, can you tell Ex's L that you will hold the April court appearance, and if the parenting plan in not in place and signed at that time, your intent is that the appearance will take place?

It's not dropped. It is temporarily suspended until 24 May. It's very clear. If she does not present her proposed changes by 4 May and we do not have an agreed new plan by 24 May, under the supervision of a social worker who I have selected, after evaluating the children, the charges are reinstated, and on the emergency roll to be heard within a week of 24 May. Last time was within 3 days.

In the meantime (between now and 24 May) I will have my visitation doubled, she agrees to allow me to have a trained family counselor (which she refused 6 weeks ago) to facilitate the relationship between the children and I.

If she doesn't agree, we got to court on contempt charges or we ask the judge to order this reasonable way forward. I actually prefer the second at this point. It has less drama.

@ForeverDad

Getting a Contempt decision is a landmark event, it dings her perceived parenting and can be referenced in the future.  Right now, what is parenting like?  Is it equal time or does one parent have majority time?  Do you have Decision Making or Tie Breaker status?

Yes, it is a landmark event. And we are not ruling it out. We are building more credibility with the court. I am 100% sure she will not keep to the plan within 6 weeks

She has primary care and I have every second weekend. Joint guardianship (so decision making). This was because I lived in another city at the time of divorce. I've since moved to the same city, so I want 50/50.

How would letting her skate on the Contempt charge encourage a better parenting plan?  Many here have been jaded by lawyers wanting to make deals that end up being weaker than we wished.  I recall the time post-divorce when I filed CC and my lawyer literally said it was a slam dunk.  However, it was within weeks of the final decree.  The magistrate surprised him by ruling the old two-year temp order she was non-compliant with was no longer in effect and the new final order she was non-compliant with (vacation notice by Feb 15) was too new to have the 'ability' to comply with since she didn't have the full amount of time to do the paperwork (final order March 5 specified less advance time, 30 days advance notice but she had left on vacation about 2 weeks after that).  Well, she didn't even try to comply with either order regarding notice of vacation but the magistrate ignored that.  Since lawyer was stunned, I figured the magistrate performed mental gymnastics to arrive at that decision.

Yes, courts and lawyers love it when deals are brokered.  Is your lawyer more comfortable with settlements than moving ahead to arguing a case in court?  Or maybe he's thinking a bird in the hand is better than two in the bush?

They are nervous of the curator-ad-litem's report. It was a shocker. sexual abuse allegations by the children etc etc. Completely fabricated but potentially damaging in judges's eyes. I have my mother's testimony to oppose it, but they want it cleaner. If I can get a specialist already well known by the courts to side with the family advocate, who ruled in my favour having heard all the sexual nonsense from the children and ex, then we are in a stronger position. Also, having alleged this nonsense, why would a mother then sign a new parenting plan with more time to me. It takes the wind out of her sail.

She is also signing this: (failure to sign means contempt of court on Tuesday)

“I confirm the contents of the affidavit I previously deposed to on oath dated 31 October 2016 which is attached hereto marked “A”. (this is damning document which she signed in 2016 admitting to mental illness Borderline and a few others, and to abusing both me and the children)

I further recant all statements I have made which allege any sexual impropriety by Moselle towards our daughters, D17, D13, and D8. I affirm that during our marriage he was, and still is, a caring and devoted father towards them.”

@David

I would agree having the parenting plan in place before dropping the contempt charges, if that is an idea. Dropping with just a promise is a good strategy for the other side.

Yes, any breaches or failure to comply with the order and it immediately become reinstated, and before a judge within a week.

[Moselle]

Whew I want to thank all of you for your input, and for preparing me so well! It is massively helpful. I really appreciate ALL of it!

     


@livednlearned

david gives really good advice on this. It's hard to give up the dream that courts will deliver justice (e.g. getting an apology for bad behavior), or promises to behave better in the future).

The best you may get at this point is court-ordered leverage (like deadlines for y if x occurs), and consequences for non-compliance, plus a reasonable attorney who is attempting (for now) to get his client in line.

Looking at her history (if I am remembering this correctly), when confronted with the prospect of going to jail for being in contempt, her behavior escalated (false allegations of sexual impropriety). Her L has implied that she does not seem to understand the seriousness of her situation. She has a family of negative advocates who may be fanning the narrative of sexual abuse (it has happened in their family, they are likely to believe this). She has left with the kids before and cut contact.

Is it possible she might be experiencing psychosis? In which case, maybe it's worth running through two or three contingency plans:

*what happens if she fires her lawyer, how to get what's best for you and the kids in case this happens
*what happens if she takes the kids, what can you do to make sure she doesn't leave the country and/or draw up emergency orders with consequences if that happens
*what happens if she stonewalls once the 4/24 trial date is dropped, how long before you will get something on the calendar, and what happens at that point and in the interim

A very useful exercise. Thank you

Yes she is psychotic.

*what happens if she fires her lawyer, how to get what's best for you and the kids in case this happens.

If she fires her lawyer, we go to court on contempt on Tuesday because it means she breaches the deadline conditions which start tomorrow. She will ask for more time, to appoint a new lawyer. We ask for an immediate intervention by the social worker, as we believe she is currently psychotic and push for custody based on the social worker's report? (It is quite likely that she fires her actually. Her lawyer will be seen as a traitor to her. She has fired other lawyers for much less), but it also means she goes to high court alone without an advocate because last time her advocate told her that if she breaches again, he steps down and refuses to act for her (this was told to my advocate)

*what happens if she takes the kids, what can you do to make sure she doesn't leave the country and/or draw up emergency orders with consequences if that happens

Unlikely at this point. Her husband has a business and 4 children here, and the children's passport have expired. She may have forged my signature on the application. I will look into a database of children which red flag if they try to leave.

We will also ask the judge to rule that the children do not leave the province.

*what happens if she stonewalls once the 4/24 trial date is dropped, how long before you will get something on the calendar, and what happens at that point and in the interim.

If she is about to go ape, we will know tomorrow at 5pm when she misses her first deadline, and we prepare for court on Tuesday. If she agrees to the short term items and stonewalls on the 24th, she is in court within a week on the "urgent" roll.

If she does not appear, we will ask for her to be sentenced in absentia.

[david]

" civil and cooperative communication... ." Make sure you get, in the order, how that communication is to be done. I have email only communication written in our order. Ex has tried calling, texting, walking out to my car when I come to pick our boys yup, etc. I don't answer my phone if she calls, I don't even open a text from her, I have a video camera that she knows I have when she walks towards me. The camera stopped her approaching me.
There are emails that are not civil or cooperative in any way. I save them all just in case I need them for court. Some are very illogical that attempt to argue with me and take both sides of an argument as her rationale. I don't engage with the crazy and stay focused on the part that involves our boys.

[Moselle]

" civil and cooperative communication... ." Make sure you get, in the order, how that communication is to be done. I have email only communication written in our order. Ex has tried calling, texting, walking out to my car when I come to pick our boys yup, etc. I don't answer my phone if she calls, I don't even open a text from her, I have a video camera that she knows I have when she walks towards me. The camera stopped her approaching me.
There are emails that are not civil or cooperative in any way. I save them all just in case I need them for court. Some are very illogical that attempt to argue with me and take both sides of an argument as her rationale. I don't engage with the crazy and stay focused on the part that involves our boys.

Thanks David, that's a very good point.

She has not said, emailed or Whatsapped a word to me for 12 months. She knows she cannot do it without going ape. I will be careful to include that wording for when she starts.

[formflier]

I have heard that some jurisdictions mandate use of an app that "proves" when something was sent, read and replied to... .

Perhaps you have access to something like that over there.  That way there is no doubt to anyone... who said what and when.

FF

[Moselle]

I have heard that some jurisdictions mandate use of an app that "proves" when something was sent, read and replied to... .

Perhaps you have access to something like that over there.  That way there is no doubt to anyone... who said what and when.

FF

Yes, I have heard of that. Thanks so much for the reminder.

This is one used frequently here by others

https://d6.co.za/education/downloads/

[david]

I always assume my emails will be in court for a judge to see. I keep them focused on our boys. I do not respond to any accusations.
I have emails that have parts that are capitalized. You can tell, by the context, that she is yelling at me. I couldn't believe  the first one but after the second one came I simply laugh.
 
I have some that ex tries to change the court order or doesn't follow the order. I simply state the order.

One time I received a call from our oldest sons school. He was nauseous and had a fever. The nurse said she called his mom several times and left a message. It was her custodial time. I told the nurse I would pick him up.  We got home and he went to bed. I emailed ex with all the symptoms, she is a nurse, and told her if anything changed I would email her again. I received an email later that day from ex demanding I return her son because it was her custodial time. I replied with his current symptoms and said I would make an appointment with the doc if I thought that was necessary the next morning. I said I would not be getting him out of bed unless I thought he needed to see a doctor. I received a call from the police a few hours later wanting to hear my side of the story. I explained pretty much what happened. The officer completely understood. I was asked to reach out to ex so I sent another email telling her what transpired. Ex sent an email to her attorney and cc'd it to me. She told her attorney that I was in violation of the court order and she wanted to go back to court to take my custodial time away. I viewed it as a children's scare tactic and ignored it. Never heard anything about it again. Kinda wished she took me to court over that one. I would have suggested counseling for her if I did anything.

[Moselle]

Update:

Her attorney has sent an email saying they have not had contact from my ex or her husband since monday. If they do not hear from them by 12:00 Monday, they are withdrawing as attorneys of record. I think they want out, for obvious reasons.

I always assume my emails will be in court for a judge to see. I keep them focused on our boys. I do not respond to any accusations.

Very wise

I have emails that have parts that are capitalized. You can tell, by the context, that she is yelling at me. I couldn't believe  the first one but after the second one came I simply laugh.
 
I have some that ex tries to change the court order or doesn't follow the order. I simply state the order.

The joys

One time I received a call from our oldest sons school. He was nauseous and had a fever. The nurse said she called his mom several times and left a message. It was her custodial time. I told the nurse I would pick him up.  We got home and he went to bed. I emailed ex with all the symptoms, she is a nurse, and told her if anything changed I would email her again. I received an email later that day from ex demanding I return her son because it was her custodial time. I replied with his current symptoms and said I would make an appointment with the doc if I thought that was necessary the next morning. I said I would not be getting him out of bed unless I thought he needed to see a doctor. I received a call from the police a few hours later wanting to hear my side of the story. I explained pretty much what happened. The officer completely understood. I was asked to reach out to ex so I sent another email telling her what transpired. Ex sent an email to her attorney and cc'd it to me. She told her attorney that I was in violation of the court order and she wanted to go back to court to take my custodial time away. I viewed it as a children's scare tactic and ignored it. Never heard anything about it again. Kinda wished she took me to court over that one. I would have suggested counseling for her if I did anything.

My ex has a saying for this which she used to tell me all the time. "All pigs are equal, but some pigs are more equal than others". i.e. she can break all the court orders at will, but if I so much as slip up once, she sends the police.

[GaGrl]

What happens to the court appearance if the Ex's attorneys withdraw?

You and your attorney would still appear, right?

[formflier]

Her attorney has sent an email saying they have not had contact from my ex or her husband since monday. If they do not hear from them by 12:00 Monday, they are withdrawing as attorneys of record. I think they want out, for obvious reasons.

Is this legal in your country?  What does you attorney say about this?

What I'm used to is an attorney must petition or ask permission to withdraw, it's not something they can unilaterally do.

FF

[Moselle]

What happens to the court appearance if the Ex's attorneys withdraw?

You and your attorney would still appear, right?

Yes, she has not opposed the contempt application. Strictly legally, they should grant a conviction of contempt. She's stalling. She will ask for leave to get a new attorney. And ask for a new date. I'm guessing that's what she'll do.

[Moselle]

Is this legal in your country?  What does you attorney say about this?

What I'm used to is an attorney must petition or ask permission to withdraw, it's not something they can unilaterally do.

FF

I'm not sure how the judge will handle it. The lawyer will serve my ex on monday (claiming no communication), and will have to ask the judge to be removed as attorney of record on Tuesday.

I'm guessing that my ex is 80% likely at this stage, for a no show at her trial. 

[david]

It's times like this that convince me that my ex does have a sense of right and wrong or at least knows her behavior can have a consequence if viewed by others.

[Moselle]

It's times like this that convince me that my ex does have a sense of right and wrong or at least knows her behavior can have a consequence if viewed by others.

She knows right from wrong. It just only applies to you

[formflier]

I'm not sure how the judge will handle it. The lawyer will serve my ex on monday (claiming no communication), and will have to ask the judge to be removed as attorney of record on Tuesday.

I'm guessing that my ex is 80% likely at this stage, for a no show at her trial. 

Can you ask your L is there is a way to "oppose" the L being removed... .so the L must show, regardless of whether or not your ex does?

Do you guys have "proof of service"... .so that she knows about the court date? 

FF

[david]

I was in court once. My ex was on the stand and told a big lie. I had no proof that she was lying. She was looking in my direction, I guess, to see my response. I grabbed a piece of empty paper and gave it to my attorney. I leaned over and said to my attorney that ex was lying. I pointed to the blank piece of paper. Miraculously, ex twisted her story to change it to the truth.
That was the point where I decided to never believe a word out of her mouth. It made it so much easier to reply in emails since I just replied to facts that followed our court order. I rarely stray from the order but when I do I have a good reason that I am sure a judge would agree with. Just like the story prior when our one son was sick at school.

[Moselle]

I was in court once. My ex was on the stand and told a big lie. I had no proof that she was lying. She was looking in my direction, I guess, to see my response. I grabbed a piece of empty paper and gave it to my attorney. I leaned over and said to my attorney that ex was lying. I pointed to the blank piece of paper. Miraculously, ex twisted her story to change it to the truth.
That was the point where I decided to never believe a word out of her mouth. It made it so much easier to reply in emails since I just replied to facts that followed our court order. I rarely stray from the order but when I do I have a good reason that I am sure a judge would agree with. Just like the story prior when our one son was sick at school.

Your story gives me an idea. I have an affidavit written by her where she admits to numerous mental disorders including BPD, GAD, etc, and to abusing me and the children both physically and emotionally.

If my lawyer presents this this "piece of paper" in court on Tuesday saying in light of the sudden radio silence by her, we believe from experiece that she is having a psychotic episode, and we are concerned for the welfare of the children. Please order immediate interviews in the home with the children by the social worker named in the parenting plan.

I could get the social worker in there whilst she is having a psychotic episode.

The risk is that it will send her even further into the stratosphere if she's in court on Tuesday.

Any thoughts on the merit of this idea?

date=1524262537]
Can you ask your L is there is a way to "oppose" the L being removed... .so the L must show, regardless of whether or not your ex does?

Do you guys have "proof of service"... .so that she knows about the court date?  

FF
[/quote]

Yes .I'm sure we could refuse to accept an email. Her question was "Will we accept an email as proof of withdrawal?". We could say "no".  They 've given a deadline of 12:00 monday for communication and instruction with ex.

[ForeverDad]

So you're thinking this is ex's way to obstruct the case, expecting the court to grant a continuance to allow her time to get a new lawyer and bring them up to speed on the case?  Ugh.  Is this ex's first attempt to delay?  Often the court will grant delays, once or twice, but after that the court will get peeved.

It's possible she may get a continuance to delay the case while she gets a new lawyer.  But expect the new lawyer to ask at the last minute for another continuance... ."I was just now hired and need more time to review the case."

Your lawyer ought to resist any withdrawal or continuance but I guess it's up to court to rule... .